lizardking,

I don't see the bible as the only way to get to God. As I've taken what I like from different religions and walked away from the stuff that doesn't work for me, I see no reason why it wouldn't be allowed. Yes, I've thought about the die hards' advice that say it goes against the bible or other religion I've borrowed from and I'm gonna fry for it. So be it. That's a chance I'll take, it rings true for me and I gotta go with that truth. Walking away from my true-self and trying to be someone I'm not --- Let's just say I've tried living a lie about who I am and that to me is PURE HELL with way more self-loathing than just being the weird hodge-podge of faith goofball I am.

Differentkindofwench,

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Spider, I look at "magic" (spelled any way desired) as a co-creation type of thing.
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What do you mean?

pegon chicks are hot!!

I mean the higher power, deity, God, whatever you want to call it and the human together manifest if that is deemed for the highest good of all involved. Thereby the human being is still being fruitful, although its seen in a different light than fruitful referring to child bearing.

Differentkindofwench,

Let me try to see if I have this right. You feel that magic is done in conjunction with God's help? So the human acts as a conduit for God's power / will?

Common word usage


Both "pagan" and "heathen" have historically been used as a pejorative by adherents of monotheistic religions (such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam) to indicate a disbeliever in their religion. "Paganism" is also sometimes used to mean the lack of (an accepted monotheistic) religion, and therefore sometimes means essentially the same as atheism. "Paganism" frequently refers to the religions of classical antiquity, most notably Greek mythology or Roman religion, and can be used neutrally or admiringly by those who refer to those complexes of belief. However, until the rise of Romanticism and the general acceptance of freedom of religion in Western civilization, "Paganism" was almost always used disparagingly of heterodox beliefs falling outside the established political framework of the Christian Church. "Pagan" came to be equated with a Christianized sense of "epicurean" to signify a person who is sensual, materialistic, self-indulgent, unconcerned with the future and uninterested in sophisticated religion. The word was usually used in this worldly and stereotypical sense, particularly among those who were drawing attention to what they perceived as being the limitations of paganism, for example, as when G. K. Chesterton wrote: "The pagan set out, with admirable sense, to enjoy himself. By the end of his civilization he had discovered that a man cannot enjoy himself and continue to enjoy anything else." In sharp contrast Swinburne the poet would comment on this same theme: "Thou hast conquered, O pale Galilean; the world has grown grey from thy breath; We have drunken of things Lethean, and fed on the fullness of death."

Christianity itself has been perceived at times as a form of paganism by followers of the other Abrahamic religionsbecause of, for example, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, the celebration of pagan feast days,and other practices through a process described as "baptising" or "christianization". Even between Christians there have been similar charges of paganism levelled, especially by Protestants towards the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches for their veneration of the saints and images.

In a sense, yes, Spider.

I am a christian but my father is a pagan.


i belive that evry 1 is alowed there opinion and faith.And beeing a christian well God says to be a example for the ppl of the world so i will never bring down any religon, for the only reason is a person will listen more if you dont put them down.


And having a father in paganisim well it does make me see both sides of things.lol


i chose my way but i still respect his and still a little curiouse.lol

Lizard - you wrote:

"i dont really think christianity and witchcraft can mix, its kinda like the people who say "im a jew for jesus" thats a contradictory statement as is christian witch
also doesnt the bible denounce magick? thou shalt not suffer a witch, etc?"

The "Jew for Jesus" point you made. Jew can be either a Nationality, or a religion. You can have a Jewish heritage, and still believe in Jesus, so it is not quite analogous to "Christian witch", as "Christian" does not have the duality that "Jewish" does.

Wench;

Just curious - does this:

"I don't see the bible as the only way to get to God"

Refer to the "God" of Judeo/Christianity, or of the "god" that Abra refers to? Another words a/the "god" who is everything - except - what the bible says about Him/him. I ask because it seems that there are an awful lot of "God/god" 's
being described in the threads.

Okay, the God I think of is pretty much best described by Abra. Here's the kicker though and it may irritate a lot of people, but it is what I believe. Take the "mythical" Gods of greek, roman, egyptian, look at them separately and you get a different aspect of the same God. Look at them in total and you get one God with a different name for whatever aspect is being displayed at a given moment. The God of the bible, (big breath here) again same God, but skewed mightily by the beliefs and writings of man. That's why I believe religions are just different driveways to the same house.

Exodus
Exod.20
[1] And God spoke all these words, saying,
[2] I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
[3] Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
[4] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[5] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;


Pretty much explains it for me.

As I said, interesting words, I believe God is above petty jealousy as God has the ability to see and understand the hearts of all. Unfortunately, God is dealing with petty humans, so maybe it was necessary to put it in a way that could be understood at that time. Silly me.

Differentkindofwench,

Jealous in Hebrew means "Protective of those things which belong to you", not "Desireous of things which belong to another". God considers us to all belong to Him, so He is jealous when we worship another god. In the Bible, "covet" has the same meaning as the word "jealous" in English.

Spider, I'm gonna apologize right up front, but you are missing my point, so here comes the blunt me again. Those words you so lovingly cling to were written by men and the understanding of said men at the time. Don't tell me what ya read. Tell me what feels right and true to your heart. If that book feels right to you - have at it. I have got to run on something deeper. An every Omni you can think of being - think, feel, know.........

but you also don't understand where spider and myself are coming from either....so blunt me now speaking.

Do you honestly think the God, we are talking about would ever let anything be written if it was not of him. Yes their are many interpretations of the bible...but if the base of what he was trying to get across is there...then nuf said. Also remember that these supposed men that wrote the bible...were very educated men of their time.

1. Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister

2. Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin:

3. The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest.

4. In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah Daniel was his right hand man........trusted smart....

5. Mathew A Roman Tax collector.

6. Luke a physician......

So were not just talking your average joes here...These were highly detail oriented and smart men. As were all the authors of GOD'S WORD....

Also for me wench because of my experiences I know with out a shadow of a doubt that the Lord God, and Christ are real......I know on any given day if something is going on with me....and I pray to God to give me the wisdom.....I will take it out and just let it fall where it may.....99.9% of the time its exactly what I need for that given situation......So there is your think, feel, and KNOW THAT IT IS REAL

I believe the God we are talking about gave his children the ability to reason and grow, so yes I do believe he would let misconceptions be written.

same God being discussed but oooooo it apparently comes down to the path you tread to get there. I'll stick with the "heathen" path as you so graciously put it.

Respecfully wench...no.....This is basically a Book on how God wanted us to live....believe me there is no room for interpretation or misconceptions. He had written exactly what he wanted. And if you really study it.....It foretold Christ coming.......And these men did not even know who Christ was at this time.......I think alot more people need to study the word instead of putting it down......or thinking their was any misconception to it's word.

the entire point of magick (thats the way its spelled when refered to as an act) is that one becomes a conduit 4 the divine, christians r totally willing to accept their faith with no proof, practicers of the art (the art is a term 4 all types of magick) use themselves as the insturment 4 their faith, as the proof of faith and the act of faith r one and the same thing. which is where we come to a philosophical impass