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| Topic: North Carolina State Religion? | |
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not really, but im sure it would have to be done in a manner of a break time for it to appease everyone and even then, people would gripe about having to 'witness' it or hear it or whatever meantime, my health is at risk anytime Im at my job during break time when smokers choose, without caring whether I like smoke or not, to gather together and smoke,,,, and I , like a reasonable and logical person, just find someplace they ARENT to take my own break,,,, How are you at risk because smokers choose to use their break to smoke? They can't smoke in your building, correct? You have the choice to take your break in a place other than where they're smoking, don't you? |
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This is why.
Not everyone wants their religious beliefs to be known by everyone else in a group setting. If someone gets up in front of the group and asks permission to say a Christian prayer as a group and asks if anyone objects, the person who does object must then reveal them self as someone who is different or who does not subscribe to said God or religion the group wishes to pray to.. Most people who object to this group prayer will not speak up and so they must either play along or walk out either of these things will label him or her as a pagan or heretic or whatever judgement said religious people have. It is my strong opinion that religion and personal beliefs should be private unless you choose to share them with someone. You should not be forced to reveal your personal beliefs in front of a group and you should not be put in the position to pretend to go along with the group. |
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not really, but im sure it would have to be done in a manner of a break time for it to appease everyone and even then, people would gripe about having to 'witness' it or hear it or whatever meantime, my health is at risk anytime Im at my job during break time when smokers choose, without caring whether I like smoke or not, to gather together and smoke,,,, and I , like a reasonable and logical person, just find someplace they ARENT to take my own break,,,, How are you at risk because smokers choose to use their break to smoke? They can't smoke in your building, correct? You have the choice to take your break in a place other than where they're smoking, don't you? thats my point that was why I said people would grip, location and timing so people could, or should, have the right of smokers on their breaks,, to assemble somewhere on the grounds, but not IN THE BUILDING, to say a prayer,,, |
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This is why. Not everyone wants their religious beliefs to be known by everyone else in a group setting. If someone gets up in front of the group and asks permission to say a Christian prayer as a group and asks if anyone objects, the person who does object must then reveal them self as someone who is different or who does not subscribe to said God or religion the group wishes to pray to.. Most people who object to this group prayer will not speak up and so they must either play along or walk out either of these things will label him or her as a pagan or heretic or whatever judgement said religious people have. It is my strong opinion that religion and personal beliefs should be private unless you choose to share them with someone. You should not be forced to reveal your personal beliefs in front of a group and you should not be put in the position to pretend to go along with the group. thats kewl I dont think grownups have to HIDE their religion or personal beliefs on personal time or 'break' times or |
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if there are people gathered in a common workplace, state government and below, who wish to say a prayer together, they should be able to do that too
Um... no they should not do this. It requires prior knowledge of the private religious beliefs of everyone present. Unless this is a very close nit group, this is rarely the case. it doesnt require prior knowledge of what everyone else wants or likes or believes for me to do what I like or believe or want thats a fallacy it is a matter of the location however, and the timing,, for instance, if it is ON the clock,, it is more reasonably regulated if it is on a preset BREAK period , people should be able to use their break in the way they choose to including gathering to pray, smoke, or whatever,,,, Why do you keep skirting the real issue? The real issue is a PUBLIC PRAYER IN A GROUP SETTING. It is not about what you personally decide to do on your break. Do what ever you like on your break. Damn!! 
Or are you simply playing dumb? You are not this dense I'm sure. |
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This is why. Not everyone wants their religious beliefs to be known by everyone else in a group setting. If someone gets up in front of the group and asks permission to say a Christian prayer as a group and asks if anyone objects, the person who does object must then reveal them self as someone who is different or who does not subscribe to said God or religion the group wishes to pray to.. Most people who object to this group prayer will not speak up and so they must either play along or walk out either of these things will label him or her as a pagan or heretic or whatever judgement said religious people have. It is my strong opinion that religion and personal beliefs should be private unless you choose to share them with someone. You should not be forced to reveal your personal beliefs in front of a group and you should not be put in the position to pretend to go along with the group. thats kewl I dont think grownups have to HIDE their religion or personal beliefs on personal time or 'break' times or anywhere else people are othereise permitted to have free speech about any other topic,,, |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 04/05/13 01:46 PM
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This is why. Not everyone wants their religious beliefs to be known by everyone else in a group setting. If someone gets up in front of the group and asks permission to say a Christian prayer as a group and asks if anyone objects, the person who does object must then reveal them self as someone who is different or who does not subscribe to said God or religion the group wishes to pray to.. Most people who object to this group prayer will not speak up and so they must either play along or walk out either of these things will label him or her as a pagan or heretic or whatever judgement said religious people have. It is my strong opinion that religion and personal beliefs should be private unless you choose to share them with someone. You should not be forced to reveal your personal beliefs in front of a group and you should not be put in the position to pretend to go along with the group. thats kewl I dont think grownups have to HIDE their religion or personal beliefs on personal time or 'break' times or
You still don't get it? Are you serious? I did not say grownups have to HIDE their religion or personal beliefs. I said that your personal beliefs are personal and you should never be put into a position of making them public just because some zealot wants to get up on a podium and say a prayer to his personal GOD in front of everyone else. |
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not really, but im sure it would have to be done in a manner of a break time for it to appease everyone and even then, people would gripe about having to 'witness' it or hear it or whatever meantime, my health is at risk anytime Im at my job during break time when smokers choose, without caring whether I like smoke or not, to gather together and smoke,,,, and I , like a reasonable and logical person, just find someplace they ARENT to take my own break,,,, How are you at risk because smokers choose to use their break to smoke? They can't smoke in your building, correct? You have the choice to take your break in a place other than where they're smoking, don't you? thats my point that was why I said people would grip, location and timing so people could, or should, have the right of smokers on their breaks,, to assemble somewhere on the grounds, but not IN THE BUILDING, to say a prayer,,, The thread was about prayer in a meeting. So, your smoking example doesn't fit. |
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what I believe is that people should have the right to pray wherever they wish, and there should not be a law restricting that right regardless of what location one chooses to pray.
In 1 Corinthians 6:12, the Apostle Paul writes, “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful.
In 1 Corinthians 8:9, Paul states, "But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak." If those county commissioners in North Carolina simply wanted to ask God to bless an official government meeting, then they could do so in private before the meeting starts. Instead of doing that, they are insisting that they have a right to put their prayers on public display during an official government meeting. What they are doing has become a stumbling block. if a state wishes to have an official religion, I Believe the state should be able to determine that
An official state religion would be a clear violation of the First Amendment. if there are people gathered in a common workplace, state government and below, who wish to say a prayer together, they should be able to do that too.
That is already being done, at the federal level, too. When John Ashcroft was the U.S. Attorney General, he and some members of his D.C. staff had private prayer together before the start of their work day. The issue is not the location of sectarian prayer but the timing of it. Those county commissioners in North Carolina are insisting that sectarian prayers be a part of official government meetings, when they could be having their sectarian prayers in private before they go to such meetings. |
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if there are people gathered in a common workplace, state government and below, who wish to say a prayer together, they should be able to do that too
Um... no they should not do this. It requires prior knowledge of the private religious beliefs of everyone present. Unless this is a very close nit group, this is rarely the case. it doesnt require prior knowledge of what everyone else wants or likes or believes for me to do what I like or believe or want thats a fallacy it is a matter of the location however, and the timing,, for instance, if it is ON the clock,, it is more reasonably regulated if it is on a preset BREAK period , people should be able to use their break in the way they choose to including gathering to pray, smoke, or whatever,,,, Why do you keep skirting the real issue? The real issue is a PUBLIC PRAYER IN A GROUP SETTING. It is not about what you personally decide to do on your break. Do what ever you like on your break. Damn!!
Or are you simply playing dumb? You are not this dense I'm sure. I am stating my opinion, nothing dense there I am stating, that if an individual wishes to PRAY before a meeting, give well wishes, or any such introduction,,,they should not be STOPPED From doing so because they cant be sure that everyone else will believe what they believe there should be no way to FORCE others to pray, nor should people be restricted as citizens from doing the same,,,, pretty simple concept the details are what will have to be ironed out will they be able to call it an 'official prayer',, no will they be able to force others to pray or believe what they believe ...no but ,,I dont believe they should restrcit someone from saying God bless or salamma laikum or whatever individual choice of words they happen to use to start the event with well wishes,,,and I dont believe they should be able to restrict others from CONSENTUALLY following along,,,, |
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I am stating my opinion, nothing dense there
I am stating, that if an individual wishes to PRAY before a meeting, give well wishes, or any such introduction,,,they should not be STOPPED From doing so because they cant be sure that everyone else will believe what they believe there should be no way to FORCE others to pray, nor should people be restricted as citizens from doing the same,,,, pretty simple concept the details are what will have to be ironed out will they be able to call it an 'official prayer',, no will they be able to force others to pray or believe what they believe ...no but ,,I dont believe they should restrcit someone from saying God bless or salamma laikum or whatever individual choice of words they happen to use to start the event with well wishes,,,and I dont believe they should be able to restrict others from CONSENTUALLY following along,,,, It was about making an official state religion to be able to open their meetings with a prayer. Not do a prayer on their own before a meeting. It does seem that they were going for an official religion for an official meeting prayer. You seem to be dancing around that issue for some reason. |
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not really, but im sure it would have to be done in a manner of a break time for it to appease everyone and even then, people would gripe about having to 'witness' it or hear it or whatever meantime, my health is at risk anytime Im at my job during break time when smokers choose, without caring whether I like smoke or not, to gather together and smoke,,,, and I , like a reasonable and logical person, just find someplace they ARENT to take my own break,,,, How are you at risk because smokers choose to use their break to smoke? They can't smoke in your building, correct? You have the choice to take your break in a place other than where they're smoking, don't you? thats my point that was why I said people would grip, location and timing so people could, or should, have the right of smokers on their breaks,, to assemble somewhere on the grounds, but not IN THE BUILDING, to say a prayer,,, The thread was about prayer in a meeting. So, your smoking example doesn't fit. the thread WAS about a law to allow states to respect religion,, it also INCLUDED A reference to not being sure what other peoples beliefs were as a reason that a group prayer would not be right so my smoking example fits, to show that what people should have a right to do is not predicated on whether everyone else around them wish to do it as well, or whether people have the right to voice opinions, beliefs, expressions should be based upon whether everyone in the vicinity also shares the opinion, belief, or expression. |
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what I believe is that people should have the right to pray wherever they wish, and there should not be a law restricting that right regardless of what location one chooses to pray.
In 1 Corinthians 6:12, the Apostle Paul writes, “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful.
In 1 Corinthians 8:9, Paul states, "But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak." If those county commissioners in North Carolina simply wanted to ask God to bless an official government meeting, then they could do so in private before the meeting starts. Instead of doing that, they are insisting that they have a right to put their prayers on public display during an official government meeting. What they are doing has become a stumbling block. if a state wishes to have an official religion, I Believe the state should be able to determine that
An official state religion would be a clear violation of the First Amendment. if there are people gathered in a common workplace, state government and below, who wish to say a prayer together, they should be able to do that too.
That is already being done, at the federal level, too. When John Ashcroft was the U.S. Attorney General, he and some members of his D.C. staff had private prayer together before the start of their work day. The issue is not the location of sectarian prayer but the timing of it. Those county commissioners in North Carolina are insisting that sectarian prayers be a part of official government meetings, when they could be having their sectarian prayers in private before they go to such meetings. first amendment says nothing about state rights,,, |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 04/05/13 02:02 PM
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I am stating my opinion, nothing dense there
I am stating, that if an individual wishes to PRAY before a meeting, give well wishes, or any such introduction,,,they should not be STOPPED From doing so because they cant be sure that everyone else will believe what they believe there should be no way to FORCE others to pray, nor should people be restricted as citizens from doing the same,,,, pretty simple concept the details are what will have to be ironed out will they be able to call it an 'official prayer',, no will they be able to force others to pray or believe what they believe ...no but ,,I dont believe they should restrcit someone from saying God bless or salamma laikum or whatever individual choice of words they happen to use to start the event with well wishes,,,and I dont believe they should be able to restrict others from CONSENTUALLY following along,,,, It was about making an official state religion to be able to open their meetings with a prayer. Not do a prayer on their own before a meeting. It does seem that they were going for an official religion for an official meeting prayer. You seem to be dancing around that issue for some reason. Right! Msharmony:
I am stating, that if an individual wishes to PRAY before a meeting, give well wishes, or any such introduction,,,they should not be STOPPED From doing so because they cant be sure that everyone else will believe what they believe. I don't think anyone is going to stop AN INDIVIDUAL FROM PRAYING. That is NOT what this is about. There is no conspiracy afoot to stop people from praying any time or any where they wish. But if she wants to do it front of a group...... NO!! SHE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO EVER DO THIS. YES, THEY SHOULD STOP HER. Why on earth would anyone insist on praying in front of a group or before a group of people? A prayer is between you and your God. Why would you feel it necessary to perform this communication in front of a group??? It is just a sign of great ego or trying to say how righteous and religious you are? Its rude and pushing your beliefs at others in public. |
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I am stating my opinion, nothing dense there
I am stating, that if an individual wishes to PRAY before a meeting, give well wishes, or any such introduction,,,they should not be STOPPED From doing so because they cant be sure that everyone else will believe what they believe there should be no way to FORCE others to pray, nor should people be restricted as citizens from doing the same,,,, pretty simple concept the details are what will have to be ironed out will they be able to call it an 'official prayer',, no will they be able to force others to pray or believe what they believe ...no but ,,I dont believe they should restrcit someone from saying God bless or salamma laikum or whatever individual choice of words they happen to use to start the event with well wishes,,,and I dont believe they should be able to restrict others from CONSENTUALLY following along,,,, It was about making an official state religion to be able to open their meetings with a prayer. Not do a prayer on their own before a meeting. It does seem that they were going for an official religion for an official meeting prayer. You seem to be dancing around that issue for some reason. Right! Msharmony:
I am stating, that if an individual wishes to PRAY before a meeting, give well wishes, or any such introduction,,,they should not be STOPPED From doing so because they cant be sure that everyone else will believe what they believe. I don't think anyone is going to stop AN INDIVIDUAL FROM PRAYING. That is NOT what this is about. There is no conspiracy afoot to stop people from praying any time or any where they wish. But if she wants to do it front of a group...... NO!! SHE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO EVER DO THIS. YES, THEY SHOULD STOP HER. Why on earth would anyone insist on praying in front of a group or before a group of people? why would anyone insist on stopping someone from praying,, wherever or whenever they choose? |
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why would anyone insist on stopping someone from praying,, wherever or whenever they choose?
You believe it's appropriate to get up in front of any group of people, no matter where you are, and try to start a group prayer? |
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why would anyone insist on stopping someone from praying,, wherever or whenever they choose?
In front of a mixed group it is RUDE AND PUSHY AND IT IS SOLICITING YOUR RELIGION. A prayer is between you and your God. Why would you feel it necessary to perform this communication in front of a group??? What is the person really trying to accomplish? Are you just trying to say how righteous and religious you are? Are you promoting your religious beliefs in public? Its rude and it is pushing your beliefs at others in public. |
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why would anyone insist on stopping someone from praying,, wherever or whenever they choose?
You believe it's appropriate to get up in front of any group of people, no matter where you are, and try to start a group prayer? nope, I think its appropriate to pray and for others who wish to pray with you to do so,,,, |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 04/05/13 02:10 PM
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why would anyone insist on stopping someone from praying,, wherever or whenever they choose?
You believe it's appropriate to get up in front of any group of people, no matter where you are, and try to start a group prayer? nope, I think its appropriate to pray and for others who wish to pray with you to do so,,,, So how exactly would you address the group? Tell them that your are going to pray and ask them to join you if they like? That is a public prayer dear. Go sit in the corner and pray, unnoticed by others. See then if anyone wants to join you. But don't stand before a group and announce that you are going to pray and invite them to pray with you. That is a public prayer. And that is rude. |
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why would anyone insist on stopping someone from praying,, wherever or whenever they choose?
In front of a mixed group it is RUDE AND PUSHY AND IT IS SOLICITING YOUR RELIGION. A prayer is between you and your God. Why would you feel it necessary to perform this communication in front of a group??? What is the person really trying to accomplish? Are you just trying to say how righteous and religious you are? Are you promoting your religious beliefs in public? Its rude and it is pushing your beliefs at others in public. If I feel like praying, its not because of where I am, its because of the MOMENT I am in, If I am in a restaurant and want to thank God for a meal, too bad if those around me dont believe in God, the words from my mouth arent forcing them to believe or speak, anymore than any words they are having at their tables are forcing me to If I am in a meeting and want to aknowledge the greatness of God for those achievements or the health or whatever I am feeling grateful for,, again, Im not going to be stopped by 'pushy' people who insist because Im not saying what they believe I shouldnt be saying it near them,,,, |
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