100% FREE ONLINE DATING
sponsored links
Previous
| Topic: North Carolina State Religion? | |
|---|---|
|
|
|
Do you honestly think that the democratic party of back then is the exact same now? That the people who hate Obama because he's black are the democrats? Really? So. You are against them praying before their meetings? Nobody is saying that elected public officials can't have private prayer outside of an official government meeting. That is not what is being argued about. What does this say? The legislation was filed in response to a lawsuit to stop county commissioners in Rowan County from opening meetings with a Christian prayer, wral.com reported. Re-read that decision made by the Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. The Rowan County commissioners have been including in their official government meetings prayers that favor one particular religion. If the prayers were non-sectarian, then the ACLU wouldn't have a case. it used to be majority rules, but i guess that is no longer a factor in our country now... i still blame the liberals... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Do you honestly think that the democratic party of back then is the exact same now? That the people who hate Obama because he's black are the democrats? Really? So. You are against them praying before their meetings? Nobody is saying that elected public officials can't have private prayer outside of an official government meeting. That is not what is being argued about. What does this say? The legislation was filed in response to a lawsuit to stop county commissioners in Rowan County from opening meetings with a Christian prayer, wral.com reported. Re-read that decision made by the Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. The Rowan County commissioners have been including in their official government meetings prayers that favor one particular religion. If the prayers were non-sectarian, then the ACLU wouldn't have a case. it used to be majority rules, but i guess that is no longer a factor in our country now... i still blame the liberals... In the USA, the majority still can't violate the U.S. Constitution. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Do you honestly think that the democratic party of back then is the exact same now? That the people who hate Obama because he's black are the democrats? Really? So. You are against them praying before their meetings? Nobody is saying that elected public officials can't have private prayer outside of an official government meeting. That is not what is being argued about. What does this say? The legislation was filed in response to a lawsuit to stop county commissioners in Rowan County from opening meetings with a Christian prayer, wral.com reported. Re-read that decision made by the Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. The Rowan County commissioners have been including in their official government meetings prayers that favor one particular religion. If the prayers were non-sectarian, then the ACLU wouldn't have a case. it used to be majority rules, but i guess that is no longer a factor in our country now... i still blame the liberals... In the USA, the majority still can't violate the U.S. Constitution. this may be a dumb question, but what does the constitution have to do with religion? isn't there a "religious freedom" clause in there? |
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Traumer
on
Thu 04/04/13 02:35 PM
|
 Here we go again, North Carolina leading the way as they are still smarting over the fact that South Carolina beat them to opening fire first on the US Federal Govt. symbolized by Fort Sumter...perhaps South Carolina can do something about what many see as a 'Taliban flag'; because of the half moon and palm tree motifs and get a new one; perhaps of a Klansman, oops, I mean a Klansperson!
Yes, A Klansperson hitting Obama on the head with a burning cross...many would love that... 
And of course, the parties switched. What was then a democrat is now considered republican. Political parties change their outlooks and their names, it is certainly no wonder people around the globe are never quite sure who or what is stood for and even being against certain things is no guarantee of being able to identify a candidate or party as all seem to wish to appear 'hazy' and blend in to be elected. This religion question in North Carolina isn't the first time it has been in the air, but certainly it is a landmark gamble to say the least about it now. Back in the late 60's my sister worked in the private office for the former North Carolina Congressman, Harold D. Cooley, as his secretary and that was one 'rascal'. I loved his off the wall ideas of getting North Carolina out of the Union. Way down deep, he was basically 'an unreconstructed Confederate'. Declaring a religion as the Feds(Yankees) had no right to, he and others would meet in his office, asked themselves, 'why not us then' along with several other ideas such as making all schools private in trying to throw a monkey wrench in the Federal Busing issue; forming a new State Guard in place of the National Guard with only one oath to the State and people leaving the Feds unable to 'federalize' them in case of any potential lethal issues over States rights versus the 'the Yankee government of Washington'...sadly nothing came of any of those ideas, especially after his health started going downhill...my sister would often bring cases of bourbon etc. home that he kept giving her... 
I drove him home a couple of times and found it hilarious when crossing the state line from Virginia as there was a huge sign "Welcome to North Carolina, home of the Ku Klux Klan" with a big image of a Klansman on horseback...I had always wanted that sign,,,wondered what ever happened to it...talk about both a historical as well as hysterical sign of those times, but as Cooley always noted, 'them daze is all over an' thank Gawd'...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think if the religion thing was going to fly, Mormon would have been the State religion of Utah long ago. You mean its not?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Do you honestly think that the democratic party of back then is the exact same now? That the people who hate Obama because he's black are the democrats? Really? So. You are against them praying before their meetings? Nobody is saying that elected public officials can't have private prayer outside of an official government meeting. That is not what is being argued about. Here is an excerpt from a news report published by WRAL in North Carolina: A resolution filed by Republican lawmakers would allow North Carolina to declare an official religion, in violation of the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Bill of Rights, and seeks to nullify any federal ruling against Christian prayer by public bodies statewide.
The resolution grew out of a dispute between the American Civil Liberties Union and the Rowan County Board of Commissioners. In a federal lawsuit filed last month, the ACLU says the board has opened 97 percent of its meetings since 2007 with explicitly Christian prayers. Overtly Christian prayers at government meetings are not rare in North Carolina. Since the Republican takeover in 2011, the state Senate chaplain has offered an explicitly Christian invocation virtually every day of session, despite the fact that some senators are not Christian. In a 2011 ruling on a similar lawsuit against the Forsyth County Board of Commissioners, the Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals did not ban prayer at government meetings outright, but said prayers favoring one religion over another are unconstitutional. "To plant sectarian prayers at the heart of local government is a prescription for religious discord," the court said. "Where prayer in public fora is concerned, the deep beliefs of the speaker afford only more reason to respect the profound convictions of the listener. Free religious exercise posits broad religious tolerance." the problem I see there is a conflict between tolerance and free religious exercise I would think, if noone is being forced to pray, an individual or individuals who desire to pray should be able to,,,, the only drawback I really see is the fear of being 'outed' indirectly for those who may not be of the same religion,,but again, whatever consequence may come from that is already covered by discrimination laws,,,, I do think it would be a state decision though, since there is no explicit language against STATES decisions on the matter, only congress and then , as I said before, there is ironing out what an 'official' religion would entail and whether an official religion would even be required to enforce the freedom of speech which should allow individuals, wherever they are employed, freedom of their individual religious expression,,, should be interesting,,,, I would think, if noone is being forced to pray, an individual or individuals who desire to pray should be able to,,,,
Msharmony: So, for the record, you think that any type of prayer should be allowed at the opening of these meetings. Correct? Okay what do you think would happen if a skull and bones member who worships Moloch demands to say his prayer? Or what if a Muslim member demands to say his prayer? The entire meeting could be taken up with everyone saying their prayers. Its stupid. No, they should not be allowed to say a prayer for any particular religion. In fact no prayer at all should be conducted because there are those who don't believe an any God at all. Religion and personal beliefs don't belong in government meetings. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 04/04/13 03:09 PM
|
|
When states start declaring official religions, then they will become places ruled by fanatic religious zealots like the Muslims who stone their women to death for disrespecting their husbands.
It shows me how backwards and stupid some politicians and citizens are. Now they are going to start some civil war over not being able to say "In Jesus name we pray" at some government meeting. Ridiculous. The civil war was the worst disaster in the history of this country next to slavery. If states want rights, then all they have to do is to stop paying federal taxes and stop taking federal money and stop looking for help from the federal government every time a disaster hits their state. If they want to be a country, then they better start forming an army, and electing a president. Then they can start passing and enforcing laws against women voting, sodomy, adultery, and worshiping Moloch and Allah and they can declare an official religion. P.S. oh yeh I forgot, then they can pray to Jehovah in Jesus name at their stupid meetings, and afterwards stone some people. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
this may be a dumb question, but what does the constitution have to do with religion? isn't there a "religious freedom" clause in there? The First Amendment gives people the freedom to not be forced to witness a sectarian religious exercise being performed by government employees during an official government function. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Do you honestly think that the democratic party of back then is the exact same now? That the people who hate Obama because he's black are the democrats? Really? So. You are against them praying before their meetings? Nobody is saying that elected public officials can't have private prayer outside of an official government meeting. That is not what is being argued about. Here is an excerpt from a news report published by WRAL in North Carolina: A resolution filed by Republican lawmakers would allow North Carolina to declare an official religion, in violation of the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Bill of Rights, and seeks to nullify any federal ruling against Christian prayer by public bodies statewide.
The resolution grew out of a dispute between the American Civil Liberties Union and the Rowan County Board of Commissioners. In a federal lawsuit filed last month, the ACLU says the board has opened 97 percent of its meetings since 2007 with explicitly Christian prayers. Overtly Christian prayers at government meetings are not rare in North Carolina. Since the Republican takeover in 2011, the state Senate chaplain has offered an explicitly Christian invocation virtually every day of session, despite the fact that some senators are not Christian. In a 2011 ruling on a similar lawsuit against the Forsyth County Board of Commissioners, the Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals did not ban prayer at government meetings outright, but said prayers favoring one religion over another are unconstitutional. "To plant sectarian prayers at the heart of local government is a prescription for religious discord," the court said. "Where prayer in public fora is concerned, the deep beliefs of the speaker afford only more reason to respect the profound convictions of the listener. Free religious exercise posits broad religious tolerance." the problem I see there is a conflict between tolerance and free religious exercise I would think, if noone is being forced to pray, an individual or individuals who desire to pray should be able to,,,, the only drawback I really see is the fear of being 'outed' indirectly for those who may not be of the same religion,,but again, whatever consequence may come from that is already covered by discrimination laws,,,, I do think it would be a state decision though, since there is no explicit language against STATES decisions on the matter, only congress and then , as I said before, there is ironing out what an 'official' religion would entail and whether an official religion would even be required to enforce the freedom of speech which should allow individuals, wherever they are employed, freedom of their individual religious expression,,, should be interesting,,,, I would think, if noone is being forced to pray, an individual or individuals who desire to pray should be able to,,,,
Msharmony: So, for the record, you think that any type of prayer should be allowed at the opening of these meetings. Correct? Okay what do you think would happen if a skull and bones member who worships Moloch demands to say his prayer? Or what if a Muslim member demands to say his prayer? The entire meeting could be taken up with everyone saying their prayers. Its stupid. No, they should not be allowed to say a prayer for any particular religion. In fact no prayer at all should be conducted because there are those who don't believe an any God at all. Religion and personal beliefs don't belong in government meetings. yes, actually, I do think they should be allowed to say a prayer, keep it to a respectable short time like 90 seconds, and carry on with their meeting I dont find it stupid at all,,,if its their individual choice to say one, I find it respectable to allow that period for them to do so, or to meditate, or to do nothing, depending upon whataver that individuals expression happens to be,,, |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
this may be a dumb question, but what does the constitution have to do with religion? isn't there a "religious freedom" clause in there? The First Amendment gives people the freedom to not be forced to witness a sectarian religious exercise being performed by government employees during an official government function. it says nothing about what people can be 'forced to witness' it only says CONGRESS can neither appear to respect or abridge anyones religious expression telling people they CANT Prey,, appears to be abridging religious expression,,, but thats to be determined and being its not a congressional issue but a state one at this point, IM not sure the constitution really says much at all about it,,, |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
this may be a dumb question, but what does the constitution have to do with religion? isn't there a "religious freedom" clause in there? The First Amendment gives people the freedom to not be forced to witness a sectarian religious exercise being performed by government employees during an official government function. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. That is the text. It says no such thing about what you just said. In fact if they made a law stating government employees couldnt perform religious activities during a government function that would be unconstitutional. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The SCOTUS has already ruled that the First Amendment applies to states as well as to Congress. The Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has already ruled that prayers favoring one religion over another are not constitutionally acceptable when they take place during an official government function.
It is the sectarian nature of prayers that is in dispute, not the act of praying. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The SCOTUS has already ruled that the First Amendment applies to states as well as to Congress. The Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has already ruled that prayers favoring one religion over another are not constitutionally acceptable when they take place during an official government function. It is the sectarian nature of prayers that is in dispute, not the act of praying. So you are admitting you were wrong when you said the "First Amendment States". Thank you. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Do you honestly think that the democratic party of back then is the exact same now? That the people who hate Obama because he's black are the democrats? Really? So. You are against them praying before their meetings? Nobody is saying that elected public officials can't have private prayer outside of an official government meeting. That is not what is being argued about. Here is an excerpt from a news report published by WRAL in North Carolina: A resolution filed by Republican lawmakers would allow North Carolina to declare an official religion, in violation of the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Bill of Rights, and seeks to nullify any federal ruling against Christian prayer by public bodies statewide.
The resolution grew out of a dispute between the American Civil Liberties Union and the Rowan County Board of Commissioners. In a federal lawsuit filed last month, the ACLU says the board has opened 97 percent of its meetings since 2007 with explicitly Christian prayers. Overtly Christian prayers at government meetings are not rare in North Carolina. Since the Republican takeover in 2011, the state Senate chaplain has offered an explicitly Christian invocation virtually every day of session, despite the fact that some senators are not Christian. In a 2011 ruling on a similar lawsuit against the Forsyth County Board of Commissioners, the Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals did not ban prayer at government meetings outright, but said prayers favoring one religion over another are unconstitutional. "To plant sectarian prayers at the heart of local government is a prescription for religious discord," the court said. "Where prayer in public fora is concerned, the deep beliefs of the speaker afford only more reason to respect the profound convictions of the listener. Free religious exercise posits broad religious tolerance." the problem I see there is a conflict between tolerance and free religious exercise I would think, if noone is being forced to pray, an individual or individuals who desire to pray should be able to,,,, the only drawback I really see is the fear of being 'outed' indirectly for those who may not be of the same religion,,but again, whatever consequence may come from that is already covered by discrimination laws,,,, I do think it would be a state decision though, since there is no explicit language against STATES decisions on the matter, only congress and then , as I said before, there is ironing out what an 'official' religion would entail and whether an official religion would even be required to enforce the freedom of speech which should allow individuals, wherever they are employed, freedom of their individual religious expression,,, should be interesting,,,, I would think, if noone is being forced to pray, an individual or individuals who desire to pray should be able to,,,,
Msharmony: So, for the record, you think that any type of prayer should be allowed at the opening of these meetings. Correct? Okay what do you think would happen if a skull and bones member who worships Moloch demands to say his prayer? Or what if a Muslim member demands to say his prayer? The entire meeting could be taken up with everyone saying their prayers. Its stupid. No, they should not be allowed to say a prayer for any particular religion. In fact no prayer at all should be conducted because there are those who don't believe an any God at all. Religion and personal beliefs don't belong in government meetings. yes, actually, I do think they should be allowed to say a prayer, keep it to a respectable short time like 90 seconds, and carry on with their meeting I dont find it stupid at all,,,if its their individual choice to say one, I find it respectable to allow that period for them to do so, or to meditate, or to do nothing, depending upon whataver that individuals expression happens to be,,, You didn't answer my question. what do you think would actually happen IN A REAL LIFE SITUATION if a skull and bones member who worships Moloch demands to say his prayer? Or what if a Muslim member demands to say his prayer? The entire meeting could be taken up with everyone saying their prayers. It is either that, or pick one specific religion and force everyone in attendance to listen to a prayer to a god they don't believe in. Nope, it should not be allowed. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If people want to pray for a few seconds or even minutes, let them do it quietly, not out loud in an official capacity for the whole group to have to suffer through.
Religion is personal and private and praying out loud as part of a government ritual before a meeting is not appropriate. Granted, a lot of people do it, but it is not appropriate in an official public or government gathering. Go to church if you want to pray out loud with a group. If state of North Carolina seriously wants to be independent from the Federal government so they can pray out loud at meetings then they should try to secede from the union. And Texans just don't get it. If you are going to secede from the union, you don't ask permission. You just do it. If you have to ask permission from your master to do something then you just don't get it and you don't realize that you are a slave.
White House Rejects Petitions to Secede, but Texans Fight on AUSTIN, Tex. — More than 100,000 people who signed an online petition calling on the Obama administration to allow Texas to secede from the United States and create an independent government received an official 476-word response from the White House last week. The short answer was no.
People are so stupid. They need to know more about the history of this country and about all the pointless waste of life we suffered during the civil war, brother against brother. Yeh, today these idiots think they can sign a petition on the Internet and get it done. They never even have to leave their homes. They are clueless fools. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 04/04/13 06:10 PM
|
|
Besides, even if they want to disregard the federal government's rules and do it anyway, what is the federal government going to do to them? Not much.
Arrest them for praying??? No they are not. All they will do is take away their funding. So pray people. Keep praying, if that is what you believe in and want to do, but don't expect to continue getting any funding from the federal government.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You didn't answer my question. what do you think would actually happen IN A REAL LIFE SITUATION if a skull and bones member who worships Moloch demands to say his prayer? Or what if a Muslim member demands to say his prayer? The entire meeting could be taken up with everyone saying their prayers. It is either that, or pick one specific religion and force everyone in attendance to listen to a prayer to a god they don't believe in. Nope, it should not be allowed. Is that a religion recognized by the united states? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
. . . what do you think would actually happen IN A REAL LIFE SITUATION if a skull and bones member who worships Moloch demands to say his prayer? Or what if a Muslim member demands to say his prayer? The entire meeting could be taken up with everyone saying their prayers.
It is either that, or pick one specific religion and force everyone in attendance to listen to a prayer to a god they don't believe in. Nope, it should not be allowed. Suppose that those county commissioners in North Carolina were to start their official government meetings by praying to Allah in Arabic. If that were the case, would they be doing something that was necessary for their jobs as county commissioners? Answer: No. If they wanted to, then the commissioners could have a private prayer to Allah before entering the meeting room. The same is true for county commissioners who want to pray exclusively in the name of Jesus. Nothing prevents them from having a private prayer before they enter the meeting room. Christians in public office frequently pray in private before important meetings. By praying in private, they are following the teaching of Jesus. Here is an excerpt from the Sermon on the Mount: Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. . . And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.*
Whenever a person insists on a public display of piety in a secular setting, I get the suspicion that the person has pharisaic tendencies. [ *Quote Source - Matthew 6:1,5-6 (ESV) ] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You didn't answer my question. what do you think would actually happen IN A REAL LIFE SITUATION if a skull and bones member who worships Moloch demands to say his prayer? Or what if a Muslim member demands to say his prayer? The entire meeting could be taken up with everyone saying their prayers. It is either that, or pick one specific religion and force everyone in attendance to listen to a prayer to a god they don't believe in. Nope, it should not be allowed. Is that a religion recognized by the united states? I don't understand the question. I was not aware that "the United States" had a list of "recognized religions." |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
. . . what do you think would actually happen IN A REAL LIFE SITUATION if a skull and bones member who worships Moloch demands to say his prayer? Or what if a Muslim member demands to say his prayer? The entire meeting could be taken up with everyone saying their prayers.
It is either that, or pick one specific religion and force everyone in attendance to listen to a prayer to a god they don't believe in. Nope, it should not be allowed. Suppose that those county commissioners in North Carolina were to start their official government meetings by praying to Allah in Arabic. If that were the case, would they be doing something that was necessary for their jobs as county commissioners? Answer: No. If they wanted to, then the commissioners could have a private prayer to Allah before entering the meeting room. The same is true for county commissioners who want to pray exclusively in the name of Jesus. Nothing prevents them from having a private prayer before they enter the meeting room. Christians in public office frequently pray in private before important meetings. By praying in private, they are following the teaching of Jesus. Here is an excerpt from the Sermon on the Mount: Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. . . And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.*
Whenever a person insists on a public display of piety in a secular setting, I get the suspicion that the person has pharisaic tendencies. [ *Quote Source - Matthew 6:1,5-6 (ESV) ] Good post. Yes I think that a public display of piety in a secular setting is for the purpose of image and power. It is highly unlikely that even half of the people in the room have a serious religious belief. They are just trying to fit in and be 'righteous' members of the majority which they believe to be Christians. |
|
|
|
|
