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| Topic: North Carolina State Religion? | |
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You didn't answer my question. what do you think would actually happen IN A REAL LIFE SITUATION if a skull and bones member who worships Moloch demands to say his prayer? Or what if a Muslim member demands to say his prayer? The entire meeting could be taken up with everyone saying their prayers. It is either that, or pick one specific religion and force everyone in attendance to listen to a prayer to a god they don't believe in. Nope, it should not be allowed. Is that a religion recognized by the united states? I don't understand the question. I was not aware that "the United States" had a list of "recognized religions." Of course they do. If they didn't everyone would invent their own religion for tax exempt status... |
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 Here we go again, North Carolina leading the way as they are still smarting over the fact that South Carolina beat them to opening fire first on the US Federal Govt. symbolized by Fort Sumter...perhaps South Carolina can do something about what many see as a 'Taliban flag'; because of the half moon and palm tree motifs and get a new one; perhaps of a Klansman, oops, I mean a Klansperson! Yes, A Klansperson hitting Obama on the head with a burning cross...many would love that...  Too bad that isn't true today, huh? |
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I'm big on State's rights, personal freedom and smaller federal government. It will be interesting to see where this goes. i'm guessing nowhere... liberals can't handle it when people aren't doing what the libs tell them to do... Yet, it's the GOP trying to force religion on an entire state. National religion is what they want. Little steps. Hopefully the Feds will over turn any law they can get passed. It would be horrid for the residents of that state. |
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Edited by
willowdraga
on
Thu 04/04/13 07:24 PM
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Do you honestly think that the democratic party of back then is the exact same now? That the people who hate Obama because he's black are the democrats? Really? So. You are against them praying before their meetings? Nobody is saying that elected public officials can't have private prayer outside of an official government meeting. That is not what is being argued about. What does this say? The legislation was filed in response to a lawsuit to stop county commissioners in Rowan County from opening meetings with a Christian prayer, wral.com reported. Re-read that decision made by the Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. The Rowan County commissioners have been including in their official government meetings prayers that favor one particular religion. If the prayers were non-sectarian, then the ACLU wouldn't have a case. Praying to an entity or entities of any kind is religious. No prayers are needed for public events. Give them a moment of silence to do what they please to their own god or gods and lets get on with it. |
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what is going for them: constitution says CONGRESS may pass no law, it doesnt specifically reference the states what is going against them: states need fed as much as fed needs states, exempting from rules also means potentially being exempted from privileges,,,, ,,,,we will see what time brings,,, right there go all of their federally funded programs from Title 1 to university research.....say buh bye...lol |
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Edited by
sweetestgirl11
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Thu 04/04/13 07:54 PM
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I'm big on State's rights, personal freedom and smaller federal government. It will be interesting to see where this goes. well their individual citizens would remain constitutionally eligible for rights under the constitution as American citizens. So the state could not violate those without being liable. Under EEO regualtions persons may not be discriminated against on the basis of religion. So they'd need to be careful because those of religions other than the established one could and prolly should immediately file a discrimination suit. I sure as h - bleep - ll would - ASAP Plus they will lose all federal funding |
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Here we go again, North Carolina leading the way as they are still smarting over the fact that South Carolina beat them to opening fire first on the US Federal Govt. symbolized by Fort Sumter...perhaps South Carolina can do something about what many see as a 'Taliban flag'; because of the half moon and palm tree motifs and get a new one; perhaps of a Klansman, oops, I mean a Klansperson! Yes, A Klansperson hitting Obama on the head with a burning cross...many would love that... If I recall correctly, it was the Republicans that supported the 'carpetbaggers' sent to the South and the 'scallywags' were the southern whites that joined them in supporting the new political rights of the former slaves, so those democrats launched the klans, wouldn't you as a means to fight back a hated enemy coming in to occupy your land and disrupt your culture...I think most anyone would would, by any means needed. wrong the klan was originally anti catholic and anti union |
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Here we go again, North Carolina leading the way as they are still smarting over the fact that South Carolina beat them to opening fire first on the US Federal Govt. symbolized by Fort Sumter...perhaps South Carolina can do something about what many see as a 'Taliban flag'; because of the half moon and palm tree motifs and get a new one; perhaps of a Klansman, oops, I mean a Klansperson! Yes, A Klansperson hitting Obama on the head with a burning cross...many would love that... If I recall correctly, it was the Republicans that supported the 'carpetbaggers' sent to the South and the 'scallywags' were the southern whites that joined them in supporting the new political rights of the former slaves, so those democrats launched the klans, wouldn't you as a means to fight back a hated enemy coming in to occupy your land and disrupt your culture...I think most anyone would would, by any means needed. wrong the klan was originally anti catholic and anti union I never said a word regarding the Klan's regard for any religion, however, my father;s first legal marriage was to a Catholic and his family and relatives, all good Klan members from the time ol' General Bedford Forest in Tennessee got the Klan going against Yankees, carpetbaggers and traitors to the Confederacy, basically disowned him until he 'came to his senses'  Poor woman, it hit her hard and she never remarried. He later married an 18 year old girl fresh out of the SS. Go figure...I laugh at it all and just accept the fact that he was a raving protestant and he was protesting at having one family and one set of children; he had several...
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You didn't answer my question. what do you think would actually happen IN A REAL LIFE SITUATION if a skull and bones member who worships Moloch demands to say his prayer? Or what if a Muslim member demands to say his prayer? The entire meeting could be taken up with everyone saying their prayers. It is either that, or pick one specific religion and force everyone in attendance to listen to a prayer to a god they don't believe in. Nope, it should not be allowed. Is that a religion recognized by the united states? I don't understand the question. I was not aware that "the United States" had a list of "recognized religions." Of course they do. If they didn't everyone would invent their own religion for tax exempt status... Um.... no they don't. We are allowed to invent any religion we like. That's were religions come from. We invent them.
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I'm big on State's rights, personal freedom and smaller federal government. It will be interesting to see where this goes. well their individual citizens would remain constitutionally eligible for rights under the constitution as American citizens. So the state could not violate those without being liable. Under EEO regualtions persons may not be discriminated against on the basis of religion. So they'd need to be careful because those of religions other than the established one could and prolly should immediately file a discrimination suit. I sure as h - bleep - ll would - ASAP Plus they will lose all federal funding how is it disrimination for me to choose to speak to God, or Bob, or Joe,, just because someone else chooses not to...? eeo pertains to equal EMPLOYMENT opportunities, who or what someone speaks to has little to do with their opportunity for employment,,,,if it can be shown that someones religion stopped them from receiving a job, that would be an EEO issue,,,, merely allowing employees to pray if they choose to,, is not an EEO issue,, thts not discrimination, discrimination would be if I treated someone DIFFERENTLY, in respect to rights and privileges because of whom they chose to speak to or not speak to |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
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Fri 04/05/13 01:06 PM
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Msharmony please get this into your head.
Nobody has to be "allowed to pray." You and anyone can pray to any God at any time you want! This is a free country. Go to the mall and sit on a bench and pray all day. Nobody cares. What is not (and should not be) allowed is to conduct an OFFICIAL PUBLIC PRAYER in a secular PUBLIC MEETING to a specific religion or God. I don't understand why this fact is so hard for people to understand.  PRAY ALL YOU WANT, JUST DON'T DO IT AT THE MEETING in an official ritualistic ceremony!! |
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Msharmony please get this into your head. Nobody has to be "allowed to pray." You and anyone can pray to any God at any time you want! This is a free country. Go to the mall and sit on a bench and pray all day. Nobody cares. What is not (and should not be) allowed is to conduct an OFFICIAL PUBLIC PRAYER in a secular PUBLIC MEETING to a specific religion or God. I don't understand why this fact is so hard for people to understand. PRAY ALL YOU WANT, JUST DON'T DO IT AT THE MEETING in an official ritualistic ceremony!! JB and I agree for once. |
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What is also wrong is to conduct an official Christian prayer at a government meeting. The State and Federal government cannot pick a God or a specific religion and they do that when they pray "in Jesus name."
Praying in an official capacity in front of a group should only be done IN CHURCH. It is inappropriate in government. Also: As Dodo_David pointed out here: "Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. . . And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you." |
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Msharmony please get this into your head. Nobody has to be "allowed to pray." You and anyone can pray to any God at any time you want! This is a free country. Go to the mall and sit on a bench and pray all day. Nobody cares. What is not (and should not be) allowed is to conduct an OFFICIAL PUBLIC PRAYER in a secular PUBLIC MEETING to a specific religion or God. I don't understand why this fact is so hard for people to understand. PRAY ALL YOU WANT, JUST DON'T DO IT AT THE MEETING in an official ritualistic ceremony!! and that is not what I debated at all what someone constitutes as a 'OFFICIAL PUBLIC PRAYER in a secular PUBLIC MEETING ' was not mentioned what I believe is that people should have the right to pray wherever they wish, and there should not be a law restricting that right regardless of what location one chooses to pray,,,, if a state wishes to have an official religion, I Believe the state should be able to determine that if there are people gathered in a common workplace, state government and below, who wish to say a prayer together, they should be able to do that too if there are employers, state and below, who wish to set aside a designated time for people to break for whatever reason,, smoking, meditating, resting, or praying they should be able to do that too,,, |
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What is also wrong is to conduct an official Christian prayer at a government meeting. The State and Federal government cannot pick a God or a specific religion and they do that when they pray "in Jesus name." Praying in an official capacity in front of a group should only be done IN CHURCH. It is inappropriate in government. Also: As Dodo_David pointed out here: "Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. . . And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you." this passage warns about INTENTION,,and hypocrisy, it doesnt say dont pray in front of people, it says dont pray IN ORDER TO BE SEEN,,,, prayer that is genuine isnt predicated on location or the numbers praying |
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Msharmony please get this into your head. Nobody has to be "allowed to pray." You and anyone can pray to any God at any time you want! This is a free country. Go to the mall and sit on a bench and pray all day. Nobody cares. What is not (and should not be) allowed is to conduct an OFFICIAL PUBLIC PRAYER in a secular PUBLIC MEETING to a specific religion or God. I don't understand why this fact is so hard for people to understand. PRAY ALL YOU WANT, JUST DON'T DO IT AT THE MEETING in an official ritualistic ceremony!! and that is not what I debated at all what someone constitutes as a 'OFFICIAL PUBLIC PRAYER in a secular PUBLIC MEETING ' was not mentioned what I believe is that people should have the right to pray wherever they wish, and there should not be a law restricting that right regardless of what location one chooses to pray,,,, if a state wishes to have an official religion, I Believe the state should be able to determine that if there are people gathered in a common workplace, state government and below, who wish to say a prayer together, they should be able to do that too if there are employers, state and below, who wish to set aside a designated time for people to break for whatever reason,, smoking, meditating, resting, or praying they should be able to do that too,,, Employers do have to provide breaks for their employees. If an employee wants to use their break to pray, they can. An employer does not need to set aside a specific time for that. I'm sure employees can get away with praying at their desk (or wherever they work) as well. I don't even care if a group of people at work want to get together on their own time (or their break) to pray together. Starting off a meeting where everyone does not share the same beliefs with a prayer doesn't make sense, though, and should not be forced on others. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 04/05/13 01:25 PM
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Msharmony please get this into your head. Nobody has to be "allowed to pray." You and anyone can pray to any God at any time you want! This is a free country. Go to the mall and sit on a bench and pray all day. Nobody cares. What is not (and should not be) allowed is to conduct an OFFICIAL PUBLIC PRAYER in a secular PUBLIC MEETING to a specific religion or God. I don't understand why this fact is so hard for people to understand. PRAY ALL YOU WANT, JUST DON'T DO IT AT THE MEETING in an official ritualistic ceremony!! and that is not what I debated at all what someone constitutes as a 'OFFICIAL PUBLIC PRAYER in a secular PUBLIC MEETING ' was not mentioned what I believe is that people should have the right to pray wherever they wish, and there should not be a law restricting that right regardless of what location one chooses to pray,,,, if a state wishes to have an official religion, I Believe the state should be able to determine that if there are people gathered in a common workplace, state government and below, who wish to say a prayer together, they should be able to do that too if there are employers, state and below, who wish to set aside a designated time for people to break for whatever reason,, smoking, meditating, resting, or praying they should be able to do that too,,, They don't intend to pass any laws against people praying. But in a common workplace there is no way to know who holds a particular religious belief and IT SHOULD NEVER BE ASSUMED! Therefore that is why I say that group prayer should be in a religious meeting or setting like a church. NOT a common work place, especially government. So NO that would be inappropriate and rude because it would require you to know for sure the particular religious beliefs of everyone present and I doubt it that is ever the case. If they are allowed to "take a break" to do what ever, that is no problem at all. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
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Fri 04/05/13 01:27 PM
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if there are people gathered in a common workplace, state government and below, who wish to say a prayer together, they should be able to do that too Um... no they should not do this. It requires prior knowledge of the private religious beliefs of everyone present. Unless this is a very close nit group, this is rarely the case. |
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Msharmony please get this into your head. Nobody has to be "allowed to pray." You and anyone can pray to any God at any time you want! This is a free country. Go to the mall and sit on a bench and pray all day. Nobody cares. What is not (and should not be) allowed is to conduct an OFFICIAL PUBLIC PRAYER in a secular PUBLIC MEETING to a specific religion or God. I don't understand why this fact is so hard for people to understand. PRAY ALL YOU WANT, JUST DON'T DO IT AT THE MEETING in an official ritualistic ceremony!! and that is not what I debated at all what someone constitutes as a 'OFFICIAL PUBLIC PRAYER in a secular PUBLIC MEETING ' was not mentioned what I believe is that people should have the right to pray wherever they wish, and there should not be a law restricting that right regardless of what location one chooses to pray,,,, if a state wishes to have an official religion, I Believe the state should be able to determine that if there are people gathered in a common workplace, state government and below, who wish to say a prayer together, they should be able to do that too if there are employers, state and below, who wish to set aside a designated time for people to break for whatever reason,, smoking, meditating, resting, or praying they should be able to do that too,,, They don't intend to pass any laws against people praying. But in a common workplace there is no way to know who holds a particular religious belief and IT SHOULD NEVER BE ASSUMED! Therefore that is why I say that group prayer should be in a religious meeting or setting like a church. NOT a common work place, especially government. So NO that would be inappropriate and rude because it would require you to know for sure the particular religious beliefs of everyone present and I doubt it that is ever the case. If they are allowed to "take a break" to do what ever, that is no problem at all. not really, but im sure it would have to be done in a manner of a break time for it to appease everyone and even then, people would gripe about having to 'witness' it or hear it or whatever meantime, my health is at risk anytime Im at my job during break time when smokers choose, without caring whether I like smoke or not, to gather together and smoke,,,, and I , like a reasonable and logical person, just find someplace they ARENT to take my own break,,,, |
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if there are people gathered in a common workplace, state government and below, who wish to say a prayer together, they should be able to do that too Um... no they should not do this. It requires prior knowledge of the private religious beliefs of everyone present. Unless this is a very close nit group, this is rarely the case. it doesnt require prior knowledge of what everyone else wants or likes or believes for me to do what I like or believe or want thats a fallacy it is a matter of the location however, and the timing,, for instance, if it is ON the clock,, it is more reasonably regulated if it is on a preset BREAK period , people should be able to use their break in the way they choose to including gathering to pray, smoke, or whatever,,,, |
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