Topic: Not definite?
Bravalady's photo
Sun 10/21/12 03:31 PM


My inclination is to say time doesn't exist. Yet as Prashant points out, there are such things as duration which rely on time for their definition. My understanding of physics is almost zilch.

Time = the number of planetary or galactic rotations? I mean, you can't talk about aging (of people or the universe) without depending on time. Hmm.


But you are awfully:wink: cute!


Oh please.

metalwing's photo
Sun 10/21/12 03:43 PM



My inclination is to say time doesn't exist. Yet as Prashant points out, there are such things as duration which rely on time for their definition. My understanding of physics is almost zilch.

Time = the number of planetary or galactic rotations? I mean, you can't talk about aging (of people or the universe) without depending on time. Hmm.


But you are awfully:wink: cute!


Oh please.


Got a moment, cutie?

prashant01's photo
Mon 10/22/12 06:52 AM

If you can detect an interaction, then the things doing the interacting exist.

Time interacts with moving objects and space.

The faster an object moves through space, the slower the object moves through time relative to other objects that are not moving at that accelerated velocity.

Time exists.


Can you please elaborate more?

An example would be better.

TexasScoundrel's photo
Mon 10/22/12 07:39 AM
An example?

How about the second law of thermal dynamics?

prashant01's photo
Mon 10/22/12 09:32 AM
The second law is about increase in entropy of isolated system which is not in thermal equilibrium.

Do you mean to say that the entropy is increasing with time because Time is acting to increase entropy??

If so,then almost every action in the universe is caused by time,even if someone is killing somebody then accused one is time.

Time is the major factor in every action & reaction,but it is never acting as an inhibitor or activator

Moving through time is an hyper imagination,many filmmakers,story writers have traveled through time backward & forth,made time machines & so many funny things...but all in their imaginary world...nothing in actual.

Children watches & reads such stories keeping their mouth open through out the film.shocked surprised

no photo
Mon 10/22/12 03:30 PM


If you can detect an interaction, then the things doing the interacting exist.

Time interacts with moving objects and space.

The faster an object moves through space, the slower the object moves through time relative to other objects that are not moving at that accelerated velocity.

Time exists.


Can you please elaborate more?

An example would be better.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity

If you want to really dig into this topic you need to start with some history of how Einstein started to develop his theory.

TexasScoundrel's photo
Tue 10/23/12 07:24 AM
Edited by TexasScoundrel on Tue 10/23/12 07:26 AM

The second law is about increase in entropy of isolated system which is not in thermal equilibrium.

Do you mean to say that the entropy is increasing with time because Time is acting to increase entropy??

If so,then almost every action in the universe is caused by time,even if someone is killing somebody then accused one is time.

Time is the major factor in every action & reaction,but it is never acting as an inhibitor or activator

Moving through time is an hyper imagination,many filmmakers,story writers have traveled through time backward & forth,made time machines & so many funny things...but all in their imaginary world...nothing in actual.

Children watches & reads such stories keeping their mouth open through out the film.shocked surprised


Yes, that is what I'm saying. The increase in chaos (entropy) is an example of time acting on the universe. Time is the cause of it. If time were to suddenly stop, so would the increase in chaos.

Storytellers don't travel through time. They imagine a story. Big difference.

prashant01's photo
Tue 10/23/12 09:28 AM
Edited by prashant01 on Tue 10/23/12 09:29 AM


The second law is about increase in entropy of isolated system which is not in thermal equilibrium.

Do you mean to say that the entropy is increasing with time because Time is acting to increase entropy??

If so,then almost every action in the universe is caused by time,even if someone is killing somebody then accused one is time.

Time is the major factor in every action & reaction,but it is never acting as an inhibitor or activator

Moving through time is an hyper imagination,many filmmakers,story writers have traveled through time backward & forth,made time machines & so many funny things...but all in their imaginary world...nothing in actual.

Children watches & reads such stories keeping their mouth open through out the film.shocked surprised


Yes, that is what I'm saying. The increase in chaos (entropy) is an example of time acting on the universe. Time is the cause of it. If time were to suddenly stop, so would the increase in chaos.

Storytellers don't travel through time. They imagine a story. Big difference.


No,It's not time acting there,neither in case of 2nd law of thermodynamics nor in any other action/reaction.

Just like time,perfectly isolated systems too don't exist in reality.

Some activators like gravity always keep influencing any system,even so called ISOLATED SYSTEMS too. Moreover diminishing of internal re-arrangements within that material's particle structure WITH time also causes that disorder.

People think of time as activator in this case as time is most widely used in calculating,defining & determining almost every physical quantities. (i.e Heat due to electricity = I sq. X R X T , Speed = Distance traveled /Time ,Acceleration = Distance traveled/ Sq. of time)time being extensively used in almost every formula
becomes very easy to think upon,hence according to formula when we find all other physical quantities not affecting the reaction,then we easily conclude time as an activator,but actually it is not,no where,it actually don't exist in any form.

BTW..pl. review what I said about storytellers,perhaps you are ignoring conveniently what I said at the end of that statement-

"Moving through time is an hyper imagination,many filmmakers,story writers have traveled through time backward & forth,made time machines & so many funny things...but all in their imaginary world...nothing in actual.

Don't you think your below quotation was not needed here at all...?

Storytellers don't travel through time. They imagine a story. Big difference.


no photo
Tue 10/23/12 04:32 PM
Stanford course for special relativity part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAurgxtOdxY

Stanford course for special relativity part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbrSKDvRTro

no photo
Fri 10/26/12 07:51 PM

Speed of time!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually isn't time just a concept & thus at all related to only our thoughts.( I mean it do not exist physically).

So how can it be different than what we think about it?





There is no entity called time.

It does not exist, so it does not move forward or backward. It does not move at all.

There is no time.

There is only perception, and cause and effect.

Cause and effect move in only one direction therefore the perception of time moving forward in one direction.


no photo
Sat 10/27/12 08:26 AM
Time is the space between events. It is the largest of all the dimensions. It is the backdrop which allows existance to be perceived. It is real, it does exist, it's relativity doesn't diminish it's reality.

no photo
Sat 10/27/12 08:28 AM

Time is the space between events. It is the largest of all the dimensions. It is the backdrop which allows existance to be perceived. It is real, it does exist, it's relativity doesn't diminish it's reality.
Its relativity demonstrates its interaction with reality.

no photo
Sat 10/27/12 08:47 AM
We don't have the vocabulary to describe its nature, especially since its nature is relative to what you are measuring. We use time as a constant on earth because it's measurement is consistant in our solar system. Scientifically speaking we could consider defining minutes in "earth time." Outside of our solar system, time is a variable relative to whatever exists. On earth, the existence of any object is a measure of time and the duration of an atomic or wave particle composition in the form of a person, a book, a piece of music or an image of light.

no photo
Sat 10/27/12 08:52 AM
actually it's relativity is only in our conception of measurement. I don't believe it is variable, it only appears so because of our perceptual bias. It is an immovable backdrop that doesn't interract. but there are other time systems, not that time itself is different, but it's measurement is based on astronomy which is relative to whatever system you are in.

no photo
Sat 10/27/12 11:47 AM

Time is the space between events. It is the largest of all the dimensions. It is the backdrop which allows existance to be perceived. It is real, it does exist, it's relativity doesn't diminish it's reality.




Wrong.

Time is not a dimension.




no photo
Sat 10/27/12 11:59 AM


Time is the space between events. It is the largest of all the dimensions. It is the backdrop which allows existance to be perceived. It is real, it does exist, it's relativity doesn't diminish it's reality.




Wrong.

Time is not a dimension.




Assertions are easy. Demonstrating you can support your assertion . . . emmm not so much.

no photo
Sat 10/27/12 12:32 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 10/27/12 12:36 PM
Okay, so how about defining "dimension."

Wikipedia:



In physics and mathematics, the dimension of a space or object is informally defined as the minimum number of coordinates needed to specify any point within it.

Thus a line has a dimension of one because only one coordinate is needed to specify a point on it (for example, the point at 5 on a number line).

A surface such as a plane or the surface of a cylinder or sphere has a dimension of two because two coordinates are needed to specify a point on it (for example, to locate a point on the surface of a sphere you need both its latitude and its longitude). The inside of a cube, a cylinder or a sphere is three-dimensional because three co-ordinates are needed to locate a point within these spaces.

In physical terms, dimension refers to the constituent structure of all space (cf. volume) and its position in time (perceived as a scalar dimension along the t-axis), as well as the spatial constitution of objects within—structures that correlate with both particle and field conceptions, interact according to relative properties of mass—and are fundamentally mathematical in description.

These, or other axes, may be referenced to uniquely identify a point or structure in its attitude and relationship to other objects and occurrences.

Physical theories that incorporate time, such as general relativity, are said to work in 4-dimensional "spacetime", (defined as a Minkowski space).

Modern theories tend to be "higher-dimensional" including quantum field and string theories. The state-space of quantum mechanics is an infinite-dimensional function space.

The concept of dimension is not restricted to physical objects. High-dimensional spaces occur in mathematics and the sciences for many reasons, frequently as configuration spaces such as in Lagrangian or Hamiltonian mechanics; these are abstract spaces, independent of the physical space we live in.

*****************************************************************


When I say that time does not exist I mean, that it does not exist as an entity. It has a name because it exists as a concept, therefore it is a perception of the mind that cannot be measured unless you use space and matter in relative terms for the official measurement of time in our spacetime reality.

Height, width, length... three dimensions.

That is what we can perceive. Three dimensional space.

How do we perceive time? Only in relation to matter and space?
This is not really true. We officially measure time in relation to matter and space and our agreements of such...

But each individual perceives time individually according to personal experience or consciousness. Each body (object/person/universe) has their own unique system of time.

I propose that time and the perception of time is directly related to conscious awareness.


















metalwing's photo
Sat 10/27/12 12:49 PM

actually it's relativity is only in our conception of measurement. I don't believe it is variable, it only appears so because of our perceptual bias. It is an immovable backdrop that doesn't interract. but there are other time systems, not that time itself is different, but it's measurement is based on astronomy which is relative to whatever system you are in.


Actually time is infinitely variable everywhere on Earth, as well as everywhere else, mainly do the relativistic effects of gravity and speed. A clock in orbit runs at a different speed than an identical clock on our planet's surface. The measurement and adjustment of those clocks are what allows our GPS systems to work.

Speed slows time. Gravity warps space/time.

As space/time falls into a black hole, the speed of light is exceeded freezing time in it's tracks (the speed limit of the speed of light only applies to matter, not space/time).

no photo
Sat 10/27/12 12:56 PM


actually it's relativity is only in our conception of measurement. I don't believe it is variable, it only appears so because of our perceptual bias. It is an immovable backdrop that doesn't interract. but there are other time systems, not that time itself is different, but it's measurement is based on astronomy which is relative to whatever system you are in.


Actually time is infinitely variable everywhere on Earth, as well as everywhere else, mainly do the relativistic effects of gravity and speed. A clock in orbit runs at a different speed than an identical clock on our planet's surface. The measurement and adjustment of those clocks are what allows our GPS systems to work.

Speed slows time. Gravity warps space/time.

As space/time falls into a black hole, the speed of light is exceeded freezing time in it's tracks (the speed limit of the speed of light only applies to matter, not space/time).



Yes and that is just the observable physical aspects of it.


TexasScoundrel's photo
Sat 10/27/12 05:22 PM
Wow, some of you guys really need to pick up a real physics book.