Do you know how badly your statement sucks? Calling it Fallacious is being too polite! Do you know how badly you just painted yourself into a corner here? I tell you I am not the enemy unless you make me one and here you spell out that we are because you choose to follow a belief pattern that is hypocritical to equality! You sound like the Pig Napoleon from Animal Farm. All animals are equal except the pigs are more equal. Your mantra is the same damn thing EVERY oppressor says to get into power. You are for whom exactly? S far all your rhetoric has been pro black and NOT pro everyone.

So tell me... about those weapons...



Don't that look like ARMED BLACK PANTHERS TO ME? How about you?

So if a white guy protests with a gun it is a hate crime. So how about this???

OH NO LADDYBUCK! I sure don't see peaceful here!

here you come claiming to be a man of education and you dare attempt to justify arguments based on shaded and half truth statements and half truth facts? You are just another person who will use history to leverage your ideals of Black Superiority over others! You are telling me to entitle blacks is beneficial when everyone else is being shown second class status in welfare and other programs? You are aware of the sheer number of government programs aimed at black betterment and how few there are for the betterment of anyone else and in some cases thanks to Affirmative Action WHITES AND ASIANS?

You do worst than disagree with me. You preach the same ignorance I have heard over the years about how "You owe me because my relatives suffered!" And time and time again you belittle the plight of MY relatives. And in a second wind of argument you dare to tangent along other lines again to lend credence to your belief based argument! I have had much more insightful disagreements with others here and at times have admitted my being incorrect. Not here. You parrot the words of hate filled men and call them intellectuals. You dare bring up Lewis Pharrakahn and call him honorable in this forum when his very own words of hate have marked this cretin for ever. No man who preaches the hate Pharrokahn has is Honorable. And in Islam there is no honor! Only power and glory to Islam!

Its like a Trini I know says, even in HIS country there are always some looser who feels the government owes them something because of their ancestors being slaves. EVEN IN TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO!

And again your own words condemn you. I would like to find middle ground but your arguments I cannot because they are the words of ignorant self propagating supremacy and Bigotry and a LOT OF HYPOCRISY! Note, I have said, "I am not teh enemy unless you make me the enemy." And now for YOUR words, " I dont pretend to like you nor want to be unified with you. To deflect that fact with the NOI, and your participation and silence when mindless threads are created to start the racist dialog you so convieniently ignore is indeed mindless. If you feel less smart because I disagree, may I suggest therapy?" Dude, You are a racist! Plain and Simple! You are a symptom of the disease gripping America. The only person here needing therapy and a hug is you! We are NATURAL ENEMIES? Again well armed?



So tell me, what color are these well armed men? Ummmm, A historical picture of WHAT GROUP COULD THIS BE?????

And not one mention of Martin Luther King Jr. from your lips (keyboard).


ONE MORE TIME... Mote in MY eye, LOG IN YOURS!

And again, GET OVER YOURSELF!

YOU

ARE

A

RACIST!

I say, "lets just deal with all discrimination equally," and you shout, "we ain't done enough for black America and you still owe us!"

I am appalled at how much hubris you show for the progress this nation has made. Seriously, If AMERICA is so screwed up why not move yourself to Canada? Or how about Russia? Maybe you would fit in Better in China maybe? In those countries you can complain how messed up America is and you might find people who agree with you. Several others have body checked your arguments and you dodge them as much as you try to divert the point here on me.

You are the one refusing to see the bigger picture here. not me. And here you shoot your mouth off and again place your foot right into your mouth! I don't hate you. I just think you are self righteous but since we are Natural Enemies by your own words I can clearly see why there are some BLACK AMERICANS that come off like ignorant backwards jerks. They believe the crap philosophy you do! Make an enemy sight unseen? You already lost the war you fight...

Right here you just proved MY point about Racism and bigotry here! Doesn't it get tiring putting yourself in a potion like this? Do you think I am one of your students you can tell me how to think or I don't get a passing grade? Think again! This is the real world, not a class room!

What makes you think your azz can walk on liquid water? A college Degree? Black Ancestry? You can drink a 12 pack of Moosehead beer followed by a rousing chorus of Oh Canada? or maybe you drive a BMW? Dude, Bob Marley had more love for his fellow man than you do! He preached love without color in his music! He did more for the cause of the Black man with music than you ever did in your entire life especially with this attitude you got here mister!



The very words of a black man and you just don't get it! At least some of us "MISGUIDED AND DECEIVED WHITE PEOPLE," do get it!

So where is all that good old love for your fellow white man now?

You are aware of the sheer number of government programs aimed at black betterment and how few there are for the betterment of anyone else and in some cases thanks to Affirmative Action WHITES AND ASIANS


????

example of a 'government program' exclusively for 'black betterment'?



and the pictures above are from the sixties, a time when panthers were created behind the LEGAL violence commonly executed against blacks by police and citizens and also by blacks themselves


one love is great, but we dont get there without action to correct the wrongs and AKNOWLEDGE the DISPARATE effects still going on today,,,


'Get up, stand up, Stand up for your rights. Get up, stand up, Don’t give up the fight'

....also from Bob Marley

A little light reading for you my dear!

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/aframfam.htm

http://www.needhelppayingbills.com/html/african_american_grants_and_as.html


http://floppingaces.net/2011/06/07/government-programs-have-accomplished-what-slavery-and-jim-crow-could-not-theyve-destroyed-the-black-family-reader-post/

Frankly look up the list yourself. it is late and Google is not getting me my list! i remember the United Negro College Fund was only partially public funds, the rest government money! There was one HUD program I remember ONLY BLACKS could get on! I am not sure it is still a working program. I think it was called the Urban Redevelopment and Fair Housing Program. The raw list of Welfare programs is staggering. I cannot annotate all of them myself! Too much work!

Now bear in mind I am not citing that Blacks get more welfare than others. They were just lucky to have programs specifically for them!

And I forgot to mention that there are few if any programs specifically for whites. The number of Indian related programs is pretty high!

for one,,,
none of your links say anything about programs for 'black people'

they mention how programs for the underprivileged (non race specific) have or can affect black people

MAJOR DIFFERENCE,,,


for two

the UNCF does not EXCLUSIVELY help black americans either, in modern times

in its INCEPTION, it was to help blacks who were legally EXCLUDED From education elsewhere,, so it included them in a system that had excluded them, when there was no need to really focus on those groups already being ABUNDANTLY represented....

in its evolution, it still aids in funding for HBCUS, which are so called because they were HISTORICALLY BLACK (during segregation) but which in modern times also dont cater to EXCLUSIVELY black americans


HUD cannot legally cater to only black americans either

welfare programs were initiated during segregation for WHITES before the laws changed to allow Blacks on them

...so far, still no GOVERNMENT PROGRAM exclusively to better black people,,,,

There are no government programs exclusively for any 'race' of people

although many government programs, by nature of their financial requirements, will cater more to those groups more likely to fit those requirements

there are no programs that have 'white' in the label, but there are programs, by nature of their financial requirements, will cater more to those groups more likely to fit those requirements,,

ANDYBGOOD; to answer your question regarding "who are these armed men? " They were men doing what the goverment failed or refuse to do, that was to protect its citizens. The photos you highlight are from a time when a Blackman or woman had no protection from the law. Police such as the infamouse COINTELLPRO, murdered Black activists and Blacks trying to orginize political powe at will, and often no arrests nor prosacutions. It took over 30 years for Byron de la Beckweth to finally be prosecuted. The terrorism Blacks faced in America at the hands of white terrorists is well documented. Black churches was the center of Black political activity, yet terrorism found its way there as well as the bombing of the 16th st. Baptist church will attest, where four little girls were killed. The thousands of kkk murders of Black people were often not even investigated, let alone prosecuted. As a ntion that has the 2 ammendment, Blackmen like the Panthers had a right to bare arms just like anyother citizen. They also had a right to protect those representing Black people and the struggle for equal rights, cival rights and human rights. The Panthers needed those guns to protect themselves from violent kkk and their sympathizers whos sole intent was to prevent Blacks from gaining political power who would then be positioned to change policys. We all know why your photos of the Black Panthers had weopons, NOW MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, WHY DID THE KKK HAVE WEAPONS?

Idiocracy, hate, bigotry and injustice wears many faces and comes in all colors... just look at DC and Capital Hill! They call it politics there, and don't know color from black and white!

Im inclined to agree sir, however, the conditions described, hate, bigotry, injustice has a rooted history in a foundation founded several hundred years ago on a premise of supiriority of one over the rest. We see the byproduct of such manifesting its effect daily.

Fear is the motivating factor towards the hatred of the NOI or anyone who dares speak truth. Many say it is in the past. However what legacy has the Ku Klux Klan Presidents left behind? What policys have they implimented? And how many are still in goverment minus the silly cone head sheets? President Warren G. Harding was actually sworn into the Ku Klux Klan in a klan ceremony conducted inside the White house by Imperial Wizard Colonel Simmons. President Woodrow Wilson and President Mckinley were both klan members, both would often host partys and other functions in the white house for their klan friends who contributed highly towards funds to many special interests groups of the time. This practice continues today. President Calvin Coolidge was a klansmen. He allowed cross lightings on the Capital steps and reviewed the giant klanparaeds of 1925 and 1926 in Washinton D.C. Yet many prefer to focus on the unarmed Black Panther Party, or NOI, yet select silence towards over 1000 well armed racists white groups who openly call for the violent overthrow of our country. Selective and hypocritical reasoning is a smokescreen for actually supporting these groups with minimal critique for doing so.

Wrong AGAIN! Lewis Pharrakahn's RHETORIC and the rhetoric of ANTI WHITE SENTIMENT breeds my spite for this organization. And yet AGAIN you justify one armed group of supremacists over another! Protecting their community? How about when they hung out at Voting Stations and threatened people about who to vote for? Convenient you seem to not mention that! And Recently ACORN got busted for Voter Intimidation and other criminal activities. Shall we talk about ACORN since I mentioned that racist organization?

And SO SORRY Msharmony I couldn't look up the specific programs for you. When I got to the list of Programs offered in Welfare it was overwhelming. But the articles I provided illustrated points to my argument where help has become an empowerment for failure. Oh but when it comes to blacks failing suddenly you guys take a blind eye and tell me I am lying and wrong?

And now Ras @ you, how about all those street gangs who live to hate? The Crips, The Bloods, Your ignorance is yet again more astounding! I have had a car pull up on me in Inglewood and a shotgun pointed at me and I was asked "Yo! Whitey, where's blood street?" My answer was "two blocks down and to the right," which I knew was a street I knew was run by 'Bloods.' One of my friends thought I was joking when I answered them and swore I was going to die. All I got was "Damn straight white boy," and they left. And if you try to tell me I got this from a movie you can go suck my ****! So don't come here and preach this good time "everything is White America's fault," and "All these White Supremist groups out there." Hell, there is a race war right now going on in Harbor City! It is the Mexican mafia vs. Harbor City Crips! So tell me, what discludes BLACK GANGS from this argument. Now suddenly there are THOUSANDS OF BLACK HATE GANGS PRESENT AND THAT STUFFS YOUR STATISTICS RIGHT IN THE TRASH CAN YET AGAIN! Oh do you know anything about the Brown Pride wars? Probably not since that is a Hispanic thing. All you focus on is how Blacks are victimized by our system. EVERYONE IS VICTIMIZED BY OUR SYSTEM!

So once more you dare call me a "Natural Enemy?" DUDE, YOU ARE A RACIST! ADMIT IT FINALLY! That is the VERY WORDS OF A RACIST! I am not going to be present her and agree with everything you say like some Bleeding Heart Liberal! When you come up with an argument that is not fallacious I will acknowledge that! If you can even remotely prove me wrong I will admit that! But all I see is a OLD TIRED LOPSIDED ARGUMENT OF HOW WHITEY BRINGS THE BLACK MAN DOWN!

We could get along if you would get off of your pulpit for a moment and agree this issue is much larger than the issue of color! We would get along better if you would catch up with me in the year 2012 and not 1950 something when Rosa Parks said No to giving up her bus seat to a white man! Your own personal ignorance is just astounding. You don't want unity. All you want is a leg up for the Black man and a leg down and punishment for whitey! So how do I protect myself from armed BLACKS OUT TO DO ME WRONG? NEGOTIATION? BEG FOR MERCY? HOW DO I PROTECT MYSELF FORM HAVING A PERSON MUCH LIKE YOURSELF TRYING TO STEAL MY CIVIL RIGHTS?

You cry so loud that "people like me" don't want to loose power. If I personally had real power the cities of Mecca AND Jerusalem would be a water filled hole in the ground! I would even lay waste to the Vatican! But that would be a case of me falling prey to absolute power. What right have I to determine the fate of MILLIONS over an issue of prejudice? At least I know what I would do with real POWER! Of course you would come off with all these good intentions if you had real power but you eventually would become the very thing you hate except from your throne nothing would be wrong with BLACKS WALKING ON TH E BACKS OF WHITES!

Again you fail to acknowledge the fact the NAZIS grew from German Poverty and Prejudice against Germany! HATE GROUPS GROW FROM HATE!!!! Gang or Chapter, Organization or criminal operation, There is no justification of hate to fight hate! Quit blaming whites for the problems created by people of your own color!

Natural Enemies indeed! You teach this crap to your children? You teach this crap to the black youth of America? I am beginning to wonder if all you do is buy books, tear off the covers and eat the pages. There is only one way to break the hate cycle and you clearly have no clue how! I know how and I keep trying to tell you but OH NO! YOU ARE A COLLEGE PROFESSOR! White hate operates behind the government, Black hate operates on the streets, and you SOUND JUST LIKE A WHITE SUPREMEST ARGUING the way you do!

You cannot fight hate with hate. You cannot fight hate with policies that draw color lines. You cannot fight hate with disproportionate punishments for the same crimes and this one has gone back and forth between whites and blacks! Here in California blacks have skated for stuff I and others of any other nationality would have been hung out to dry for a long time over!

Again your personal ignorance is absolutely astounding! I almost cannot believe I had a vicious verbal showdown with a Southern Episcopal Minister over his spite for Blacks! YOU MAKE ME FEEL LIKE DEFENDING THE RIGHTS OF BLACKS IS A WASTE OF MY TIME! THAT IS SO UNFAIR TO THE REST OF MY FELLOW AMERICANS WHO DESERVE TO BE TREATED LIKE I WOULD EXPECT TO BE. All I want if fair treatment. Not live in a society where some people are more equal than others even if I am of that more equal class of people.

Let me spell this out as plainly as I can, YOUR VIEWS of equality are color tainted! YOUR BELIEFS are arrogant, ignorant, biased, and racist! Instead of trying to find middle ground with any of us, "We are your natural enemies." Instead of trying to deal with this problem and get past color lines you keep drawing them! I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH WHITE SUPREMACY! And yet you call me a racist and a bigot and ignorant but then again I call you that too because your own words recuse you! The KKK IS DYING! But without them you have no one to aim your hatred of all things white! You claim that the NOI is unarmed yet what of their ARMED FOLLOWERS AND PRACTITIONERS? Convenient how you forget the people that SERVE the NOI!

It is rare when I say this, YOU ARE A CHILD OF SHADOW AND DARKNESS! YOU PROMOTE THE IDEALS OF HATE MORE THAN YOU FIGHT THEM! Why do you pretend that corruption, hate and prejudice are exclusively white? Can you even tell me one thing you have done to end the hate cycle from the side of the BLACK MAN? I want equality and fairness for all irrespective of color! All you want is reparations and apologies from White America. GET OVER YOURSELF!

I have not called you a 'liar'

I just believe you are sadly misinformed about the difference between the individual obstacles and crimes that occur across racial lines

and the Demographic DISPARITY which continues to exist for minorities in their opportunities for the american dream,,,,

I have been looking for the listing of welfare programs and I cannot get Google or any other search engine to give that to me! But I do keep running across articles of how welfare hurts black America! One set of statistics says more whites collect welfare, another says more blacks collect welfare. That is why I have such an issue with statistics! But again I do see how welfare has failed blacks BECAUSE IT HAS FAILED WHITES ALL THE SAME! Now about HUD, When my parents moved to Inglewood in 1966 Inglewood was peaceful. Then HUD started to move all these "INNER CITY BLACKS" around and suddenly Inglewood went to hell. And when I was living in Hawthorne the same thing happened. The area I lived in turned to hell. HUD was relocating blacks to other neighborhoods they could not afford to live in otherwise! AND THEY TRASHED THEM!

And the one time MY MOTHER TIRED TO GET WELFARE (WHICH WE WERE DENIED BECAUSE MY MOTHER REFUSED TO SELL OUR CRAPPY STATION WAGON!) and she had to bring both me and my brother to prove she had two kids. I remember this well, there were several black women asking each other to "borrow their children" so they could get more money! Suddenly a Black woman with one kid had FIVE! They were working the system hard! These women were trading their kids off to each other so they could squeeze more money out of the system. THAT IS WELFARE FRAUD AND I SEEN THAT FIRST HAND!

I admit I don't have all the facts but I have enough to know Welfare as a system has and still is failing America! It needs repair and lazy people of all colors need to get jobs or start businesses!!!

There was a white woman actually busted recently for HUGE welfare fraud! But that was remembered for all of about five minuets in America! But then again how about the Hispanic RING busted for Welfare fraud? That made the news too. It actually kicked off a pretty big stink here all for about two months!

Too many people milking an assistance program meant to help, not support people! Yes there are people who by circumstance cannot support themselves and they deserve a hand up. But those people are the real minority here!

Welfare reform has not done enough to fix a messed up system!

I Believe welfare has often failed when its objective was mainly 'maintaining' the underemployed or unemployed

welfare to work is a MUCH better program, but even there, 'favorites' get played in terms of actually helping people get back to work

it has greatly decreased the rolls on what was once AFDC (now TANF)

until the recent economic slump, of course,,,

One reason why I could get behind the Charity Chorizine Foundation is to receive assistance you had to provide community service. Locals had to volunteer for local projects while they brought American Volunteers to help build "Chorizone Housing." A Chorizone House can be built for under $400 in Materials and is a FAR CRY better than the shanty shacks these people lived in. In order to get you have to give. With Chorizone there is no free hand outs. But as a volunteer Corizone offered training in things like Bicycle and Appliance repair, Construction, how to properly clean a home, and in some cases if they found a local volunteer who really was a help they gave them a job. But Corizone also worked to help find jobs for people. You give, you get!

Our welfare system is a hand out if you can get through the paperwork and like to jump through hoops! Corizone Foundation would be a great model to look at for fixing our system. MAKE PEOPLE GET INVOLVED WITH THEIR COMMUNITY. Offer more than just a twice monthly check! Welfare has to help those who help themselves! Right now I could use a helping hand but there is no way in hell I am filing for unemployment let alone welfare. I recently lost my primary job to circumstances that were not in my control! I was fired because I DID MY JOB AND SOMETHING HAPPENED AND I GOT BLAMED EVEN THOUGH IT WAS THE CUSTOMER'S FAULT! A lot of people of any color in my situation run right for the government with an empty hand! I am starting a business a friend and me had been talking about for the last few months! I would rather take my chances with this than go to work for someone else and have to face yet more uncertainty and others' bad decision processes! I personally am done helping others prosper and not prospering myself. But this is not the case with most welfare recipients. Some cannot help themselves at all for a hand full of reasons like injuries on the job, surprise medical condition that is really debilitating, and elderly. These are the people welfare should focus on to a point. Welfare is supposed to help! But who really cannot do for themselves vs. who can and are faking it? There are people who want off of welfare and work hard towards that ambition. But the rest of the people on the roles have no interest in finding work, starting businesses, or involving themselves in community and civil service! At least a lot of Elderly people will do volunteer work for something to do instead of fade away!

Mothers on Welfare who don't work should HAVE TO DO VOLUNTEER WORK AS WELL AS ACCEPT JOB TRAINING THAT SHOULD BE MANDATORY FOR ASSISTANCE!!! If the mother DOES work and does pull her weight and just needs a little push then welfare should give her that push! If she is trained to get a better job she is being given a real chance and opportunity to do more for herself and eventually will manage to do better for herself and get off of assistance! I have more respect for a migrant single mother who needs welfare assistance, has a sweat shop job, but tries hard to do the right thing by her child and OUR SOCIETY than some (and please don't take this as a racist comment, it is not intended to be one!) FAT BLACK OR WHITE COW OF HUMANITY with three or more children who leave a butt rut in the couch from sitting in front of a TV (they should not be able to afford!) all day complaining how she is too tired to work because she has babies to raise! That is not our responsibility! I am even more sick of people complaining that if they get a job they will make less than the government pays them! If that is the case the government is giving them too much money!

You know of all the people here I have had to disagree with anything at least you are more eloquent and observant of the arguments posed by others. We even find middle ground here and there. That does give me hope that one day America might manage to save itself from itself!

I still am baffled why there is no common sense thinking at all in Welfare. Why is it we have to give and not expect those receiving aid to give in return? THIS IS MY MOST FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE WITH WELFARE IN GENERAL!

All of the fussing on this thread reminds me of something that is written in the Tanakh: "There is none who does good, not even one."

the welfare to work programs do require work activity to receive financial assistance

food cards are strictly for food, and are based strictly on dietary need for the family size,,,,as it relates to their total household income

there really needs to be more of a push in family values, as corny as it sounds, everyone wants to say it starts at home but few shoe much initiative or disdain for all the 'second' parents who are living their lives leaving the childs care to the 'first' parent by themself

if we encouraged, promoted, more parenting partnerships and put the shame on childmaking parents who WALK Away instead of the parent left to hold the bag,,,,I think we would get alot further

the idea, which doesnt happen often enough is to RECOVER the costs from that parent that is absent so that the money from the taxpayer is more of a temporary loan in place of that parents responsibility,,,,instead of the stereotyped 'handout'

but too often, we do have parents struggling to do what they can for their kids, pride be damned, by asking for some help,, and too often they become the demographic that is demonized and blamed,,,,,

,,,its a sad cycle all the way around,,

ANDYBGOOD, it is quite unfortunate that you have to invite someone to suck your penis just because you disagree with them. Judging by your photo, id see why you would resort to such childishness, from the safety of your keypad is indeed convieniant to express such silly insults, my advice to you would be to never invite a man to suck your penis, its quite unbecoming of a true man, . Id like to continue this little war of words with you, however you are obviousely unarmed, and now you choose to resort to homosexual inuendos, and none of which pertains to this topic nor to me. ID STRONGLY ADVISE YOU TO REFRAIN FROM THESE TYPES OF INSULTS, YOU DONT LOOK WELL TO SAY SUCH THINGS TO MEN,.

Part of the moral decay of this nation is because of the media! And who has a responsibility to oversee what is broadcast? No one any more. Censorship is illegal. But likewise religion is another fault. The preachers are the worst sinners! And then all the Bleeding Hearts out there who have not one lick of responsibility. The Empire of Rome never fell. They adapted and became good puppet masters from behind the curtain!

Ok I'm locking this topic. It's obvious this discussion can't be discussed without personal attacks.

Leave the insults and personal attacks OFF of the forums!

Kim