Topic: Can only statements be true or false?
no photo
Mon 03/12/12 11:34 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 03/12/12 11:36 AM




It is true that it is your logic but it is false that it is true.
Everything that exists may not necessarily be true,it depends on our perception,conception,understanding...irrespective of being stated somewhere.


Name something that exists that is not true. (other than a statement.)

I said,I will like to try for this,but you need to clear first what do u mean by existence.


Objective things.


Falselaugh laugh laugh

"False" can never be true.

"False" exists.

"False" is objective too.laugh



False is only a word.
If it is objective and exists, what does it look like?

By objective, it must be an object.

Objective:

--"of or pertaining to something that can be known, or to something that is an object or a part of an object; existing independent of thought or an observer as part of reality."





prashant01's photo
Mon 03/12/12 11:37 AM



It is true that it is your logic but it is false that it is true.
Everything that exists may not necessarily be true,it depends on our perception,conception,understanding...irrespective of being stated somewhere.


Name something that exists that is not true. (other than a statement.)

I said,I will like to try for this,but you need to clear first what do u mean by existence.


Objective things.



Considering that by "objective" you really mean not only actual objects but everything that is related to an object; I will repeat again my points about conception,perception,assumptions,indication etc.
They all are related to some objects;so are objective,they exist in our minds & sometimes at actual too & they aren't statement.

prashant01's photo
Mon 03/12/12 11:40 AM





It is true that it is your logic but it is false that it is true.
Everything that exists may not necessarily be true,it depends on our perception,conception,understanding...irrespective of being stated somewhere.


Name something that exists that is not true. (other than a statement.)

I said,I will like to try for this,but you need to clear first what do u mean by existence.


Objective things.


Falselaugh laugh laugh

"False" can never be true.

"False" exists.

"False" is objective too.laugh



False is only a word.
If it is objective and exists, what does it look like?

By objective, it must be an object.

Objective:

--"of or pertaining to something that can be known, or to something that is an object or a part of an object; existing independent of thought or an observer as part of reality."



True & false both usually pertains to an object or condition of object,so they both are originally objective.

no photo
Mon 03/12/12 11:50 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 03/12/12 11:51 AM
Creative:

Nope, not trying to be confusing. Succeeding none-the-less.

Here's how truth works...

Thought/belief begins by being about the states of affairs, as they occur. States of affairs are fact. Reality is the overall state of affairs. Thought/belief presupposes it's own correspondence to fact/reality. Truth is correspondence to fact/reality. Thought/belief grounds language. Statements are expressions of thought/belief regarding states of affairs. Assuming honest testimony, statements presuppose truth. Thus, a statement is true if, and only if, it corresponds to fact/reality.




Very good.

Q: about- "States of affairs as they occur.."

You seem to be implying "events" as they occur or exist in the present.

The overall state of affairs = reality.

Our only misunderstanding is that I applied the term "truth" to what you call "reality."

If you look at definition number 5, I think you can see that is correct.

1.
the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.
2.
conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
3.
a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
4.
the state or character of being true.
5.
actuality or actual existence.





The truth is actual existence.


no photo
Mon 03/12/12 11:55 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 03/12/12 11:56 AM
If you use the definition of truth as actual existence then all information = truth.

Any information or statements that are "false" is not "truth."

Since truth = only things that actually exist, then false statements do not exist. They cannot be said to actually exist, they can only be called ILLUSION.

FALSE STATEMENTS ARE ILLUSIONS.


no photo
Mon 03/12/12 11:58 AM
When you believe a false statement, you are accepting as truth, something that does not exist, and that is called an illusion.


prashant01's photo
Mon 03/12/12 12:08 PM

If you use the definition of truth as actual existence then all information = truth.

Any information or statements that are "false" is not "truth."

Since truth = only things that actually exist, then false statements do not exist. They cannot be said to actually exist, they can only be called ILLUSION.

FALSE STATEMENTS ARE ILLUSIONS.


slaphead


In my opinion you have made a false statement & this site is an evidence of it's existence.It's not illusion for me,I verified it double,it exists.

no photo
Mon 03/12/12 12:16 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 03/12/12 12:17 PM


If you use the definition of truth as actual existence then all information = truth.

Any information or statements that are "false" is not "truth."

Since truth = only things that actually exist, then false statements do not exist. They cannot be said to actually exist, they can only be called ILLUSION.

FALSE STATEMENTS ARE ILLUSIONS.


slaphead


In my opinion you have made a false statement & this site is an evidence of it's existence.It's not illusion for me,I verified it double,it exists.



That is only your opinion, which is wrong in my opinion.
My logic is sound.

1. IF you use the definition of truth as actual existence

2. then all information = truth.

3. and false statements are not truth.

4. Therefore they do not exist.

So if false statements do not exist, what are they?

Answer: they are illusion. (if they are believed)
and they are meaningless in regards to truth.


prashant01's photo
Mon 03/12/12 12:19 PM
Edited by prashant01 on Mon 03/12/12 12:32 PM



If you use the definition of truth as actual existence then all information = truth.

Any information or statements that are "false" is not "truth."

Since truth = only things that actually exist, then false statements do not exist. They cannot be said to actually exist, they can only be called ILLUSION.

FALSE STATEMENTS ARE ILLUSIONS.


slaphead


In my opinion you have made a false statement & this site is an evidence of it's existence.It's not illusion for me,I verified it double,it exists.



That is only your opinion, which is wrong in my opinion.
My logic is sound.

1. IF you use the definition of truth as actual existence

2. then all information = truth.

3. and false statements are not truth.

4. Therefore they do not exist.

So if false statements do not exist, what are they?

Answer: they are illusion.



How can you conclude or prove that anything that isn't true does not exist?

You are trying to falsify the existence of false by using the alternate word WRONG...laugh laugh

I also don't agree with your no.3 point.

false statements when proven to be the false statement tells the truth and hence are true in nature.

in fact false statements when identified as false tells the truth more clearly & tries to understand the importance of truth more significantly.

They actually exists & in my opinion we all are surviving as any how false statements,false indications,false conceptions,false perceptions had helped us to be alive.laugh laugh

it is impossible to survive in today's world without existence of false. It is impossible to have a single day without taking the help of something that is false.

no photo
Mon 03/12/12 12:33 PM




If you use the definition of truth as actual existence then all information = truth.

Any information or statements that are "false" is not "truth."

Since truth = only things that actually exist, then false statements do not exist. They cannot be said to actually exist, they can only be called ILLUSION.

FALSE STATEMENTS ARE ILLUSIONS.


slaphead


In my opinion you have made a false statement & this site is an evidence of it's existence.It's not illusion for me,I verified it double,it exists.



That is only your opinion, which is wrong in my opinion.
My logic is sound.

1. IF you use the definition of truth as actual existence

2. then all information = truth.

3. and false statements are not truth.

4. Therefore they do not exist.

So if false statements do not exist, what are they?

Answer: they are illusion.



How can you conclude or prove that anything that isn't true does not exist?

You are trying to falsify the existence of false by using the alternate word WRONG...laugh laugh

I also don't agree with your no.3 point.

false statements when proven to be the false statement tells the truth and hence are true in nature.

in fact false statements when identified as false tells the truth more clearly & tries to understand the importance of truth more significantly.


How can you conclude or prove that anything that isn't true does not exist?


HUH?huh

I am not doing or trying to conclude anything of the sort.

My logic is sound.

You have not proven otherwise with your meaningless response.

no photo
Mon 03/12/12 12:38 PM
How can you conclude or prove that anything that isn't true does not exist?



I said that anything that isn't TRUTH does not exist.

As creative implies, "true and false" refer to statements.

The terms "true" and "truth" are not the same thing.

no photo
Mon 03/12/12 12:41 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 03/12/12 12:42 PM
You are trying to falsify the existence of false by using the alternate word WRONG...



I used the term "wrong" to describe my opinion of your opinion.

Your opinion is wrong not "false."

If you opinion were "false" then it would not be your opinion it would be a lie.

Opinions cannot be true or false, an opinion if it is an honest one, is always your true opinion, even if it is WRONG.




prashant01's photo
Mon 03/12/12 12:48 PM





If you use the definition of truth as actual existence then all information = truth.

Any information or statements that are "false" is not "truth."

Since truth = only things that actually exist, then false statements do not exist. They cannot be said to actually exist, they can only be called ILLUSION.

FALSE STATEMENTS ARE ILLUSIONS.


slaphead


In my opinion you have made a false statement & this site is an evidence of it's existence.It's not illusion for me,I verified it double,it exists.



That is only your opinion, which is wrong in my opinion.
My logic is sound.

1. IF you use the definition of truth as actual existence

2. then all information = truth.

3. and false statements are not truth.

4. Therefore they do not exist.

So if false statements do not exist, what are they?

Answer: they are illusion.



How can you conclude or prove that anything that isn't true does not exist?

You are trying to falsify the existence of false by using the alternate word WRONG...laugh laugh

I also don't agree with your no.3 point.

false statements when proven to be the false statement tells the truth and hence are true in nature.

in fact false statements when identified as false tells the truth more clearly & tries to understand the importance of truth more significantly.


How can you conclude or prove that anything that isn't true does not exist?


HUH?huh

I am not doing or trying to conclude anything of the sort.

My logic is sound.

You have not proven otherwise with your meaningless response.



whoa Seems u losing patience!!

I'm sure,my response could be meaningless for few people.No issue.

Sorry to say ,but I don't see any soundness in your said logic.

It is just like trying to prove that darkness never existed as now it is day & everywhere light is evident.

prashant01's photo
Mon 03/12/12 12:55 PM

You are trying to falsify the existence of false by using the alternate word WRONG...



I used the term "wrong" to describe my opinion of your opinion.

Your opinion is wrong not "false."

If you opinion were "false" then it would not be your opinion it would be a lie.

Opinions cannot be true or false, an opinion if it is an honest one, is always your true opinion, even if it is WRONG.



WRONG OPINION???????????????????????????????????????/huh

Can an opinion ever be wrong???

prashant01's photo
Mon 03/12/12 01:40 PM

How can you conclude or prove that anything that isn't true does not exist?



I said that anything that isn't TRUTH does not exist.

As creative implies, "true and false" refer to statements.

The terms "true" and "truth" are not the same thing.


In that respect true accords to truth only.Terms are different meaning is same.

true & false do not only refer to statements.

TRUTH is related to our level of understanding & yet there exists many things which are beyond one's understanding,so the claim that "anything that isn't TRUTH does not exist" do not make any sense.

no photo
Mon 03/12/12 02:26 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 03/12/12 02:32 PM
TRUTH is related to our level of understanding & yet there exists many things which are beyond one's understanding,so the claim that "anything that isn't TRUTH does not exist" do not make any sense.


First, TRUTH IS NOT RELATED to our level of understanding.
Reality/truth exists regardless of our understanding of it.

IF you accept the PREMISE that truth is actual existence then anything that actually exists is truth and anything that isn't truth does not exist. It is Illusion.

Which is what I stated----> here when I said, in my argument:

1. IF you use the definition of truth as actual existence

(Our own "level of understanding" is completely irrelevant.)


..."there exists many things which are beyond one's understanding,so..."


Irrelevant.

"....so the claim that "anything that isn't TRUTH does not exist""


It makes sense after/if you accept the premise that truth is/equals actual existence.

Example:

"If truth is/equals actual existence, then anything that is not truth does not exist."


The above "if" statement is true.

no photo
Mon 03/12/12 02:30 PM


You are trying to falsify the existence of false by using the alternate word WRONG...



I used the term "wrong" to describe my opinion of your opinion.

Your opinion is wrong not "false."

If you opinion were "false" then it would not be your opinion it would be a lie.

Opinions cannot be true or false, an opinion if it is an honest one, is always your true opinion, even if it is WRONG.



WRONG OPINION???????????????????????????????????????/huh

Can an opinion ever be wrong???


Only in another person's opinion, which is what I say.

In my opinion, your opinion is wrong.

creativesoul's photo
Mon 03/12/12 08:00 PM
Jb,

I say leave the insincere to themselves... some like to play, just to be playing. That certainly looks the case here. JMO

:wink:

When talking about "truth", it only causes confusion to swap back and forth between the various meanings of "true" during the discourse. Not all of them mean true, in the intuitive sense. Doing that also constitutes the informal fallacy called equivocation.

creativesoul's photo
Mon 03/12/12 08:03 PM
By the way, your logic seems ok, based upon the definition you're using. However, that leads to very odd things. The logic cannot be sound, however, unless all your premisses are true, and the argumentative form is valid. That would be "true" in the sense that I'm using the term, not your use - by the way. Sumpin to think about.

bigsmile

no photo
Mon 03/12/12 09:22 PM

Jb,

I say leave the insincere to themselves... some like to play, just to be playing. That certainly looks the case here. JMO

:wink:

When talking about "truth", it only causes confusion to swap back and forth between the various meanings of "true" during the discourse. Not all of them mean true, in the intuitive sense. Doing that also constitutes the informal fallacy called equivocation.


laugh :wink:

I was bored.:tongue: