Topic: Can only statements be true or false?
prashant01's photo
Fri 03/16/12 11:11 AM

My reply to your topic question is

Logical outputs are true or false.

Logical outputs are not statements.


Those are both statements.

bigsmile


whoa

Why don't you rename this topic ....

"Can anyone reply my question without making any statement???"


laugh laugh laugh laugh

no photo
Fri 03/16/12 11:13 AM
laugh laugh laugh :thumbsup: tongue2

creativesoul's photo
Fri 03/16/12 11:13 AM
Logical outputs are terms, to use your jargon, which result from following through an expression. The terms "true" and "false" in this use means valid and invalid. As already discussed at length, validity is insufficient for truth. In other words, something can be valid and false. So, calling something "true" in such cases does not make it so.

The question is what sort of things can be true other than statements, not what sorts of things can be called "true".

creativesoul's photo
Fri 03/16/12 11:16 AM
To answer the question, one must first know what it takes for something to be true, not to be called "true". Your argument claims that we call things "true" because they are.

That is simply not true.


no photo
Fri 03/16/12 11:19 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Fri 03/16/12 11:21 AM
"true" is an adjective therefore, it must have a noun.

A statement is a noun.

What other nouns can be true?(--"true" meaning in correspondence to reality.)

Can facts be "true or false?"

A statement of fact can be true or false, a fact can be true or no longer true. (it was true once but things have changed so it is no longer true. You can call that "false.")

"The cup is on the table." Is true if and when the cup is on the table. If the cup is removed from the table the statement is no longer true.


"The cup was on the table." Being past tense, could be a lie or an opinion, or it could be a true statement about the past.




no photo
Fri 03/16/12 11:22 AM

To answer the question, one must first know what it takes for something to be true, not to be called "true". Your argument claims that we call things "true" because they are.

That is simply not true.




Right. We call things true because we think or believe they are true.


creativesoul's photo
Fri 03/16/12 11:28 AM
All sorts of things can be called "true" by using the adjective. Being true does not require language, it only requires correspondence to fact/reality.

Fact/reality are neither true nor false. They are, simply, the way things are/were. We talk about them. Our talk, for the most part, aims to set out the way things are. If it does so correctly, then it is true, if not then it is false.

What are you calling "a statement of fact"?

no photo
Fri 03/16/12 11:31 AM

All sorts of things can be called "true" by using the adjective. Being true does not require language, it only requires correspondence to fact/reality.

Fact/reality are neither true nor false. They are, simply, the way things are/were. We talk about them. Our talk, for the most part, aims to set out the way things are. If it does so correctly, then it is true, if not then it is false.

What are you calling "a statement of fact"?


"The cup is on the table." Is a statement of fact - if the cup is on the table.


no photo
Fri 03/16/12 11:34 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Fri 03/16/12 11:36 AM


Fact/reality are neither true nor false. They are, simply, the way things are/were. We talk about them. Our talk, for the most part, aims to set out the way things are. If it does so correctly, then it is true, if not then it is false.



Reality is truth. A statement about reality is either true or false.

A fact is truth if it corresponds to current reality.

A statement of fact is true if it corresponds to reality; which is truth.

Reality only exists in the present. It does not exist in the past or the future.

creativesoul's photo
Fri 03/16/12 11:38 AM


All sorts of things can be called "true" by using the adjective. Being true does not require language, it only requires correspondence to fact/reality.

Fact/reality are neither true nor false. They are, simply, the way things are/were. We talk about them. Our talk, for the most part, aims to set out the way things are. If it does so correctly, then it is true, if not then it is false.

What are you calling "a statement of fact"?


"The cup is on the table." Is a statement of fact - if the cup is on the table.


It could be called such, I suppose. I mean it aims to set the fact out. However, I would not call any statement at all a statement of fact, because it is misleading. Statement are of belief and they are about the fact(s).

creativesoul's photo
Fri 03/16/12 11:41 AM
Edited by creativesoul on Fri 03/16/12 11:41 AM


All sorts of things can be called "true" by using the adjective. Being true does not require language, it only requires correspondence to fact/reality.

Fact/reality are neither true nor false. They are, simply, the way things are/were. We talk about them. Our talk, for the most part, aims to set out the way things are. If it does so correctly, then it is true, if not then it is false.

What are you calling "a statement of fact"?


"The cup is on the table." Is a statement of fact - if the cup is on the table.


I think that it is much better put that that statement is true under those conditions.

prashant01's photo
Fri 03/16/12 11:47 AM

Logical outputs are terms, to use your jargon, which result from following through an expression. The terms "true" and "false" in this use means valid and invalid. As already discussed at length, validity is insufficient for truth. In other words, something can be valid and false. So, calling something "true" in such cases does not make it so.

The question is what sort of things can be true other than statements, not what sorts of things can be called "true".


Nop,Logical outputs are not 'valid' or 'invalid',statements can be.

So whatever you are claiming about insufficiency of validity for truth isn't applicable here.

Better way you start a new topic with proper amendment in your question or special note like you given now....now I see whole of this topic as invalid:wink:

laugh laugh laugh

(JK)

no photo
Fri 03/16/12 11:50 AM



All sorts of things can be called "true" by using the adjective. Being true does not require language, it only requires correspondence to fact/reality.

Fact/reality are neither true nor false. They are, simply, the way things are/were. We talk about them. Our talk, for the most part, aims to set out the way things are. If it does so correctly, then it is true, if not then it is false.

What are you calling "a statement of fact"?


"The cup is on the table." Is a statement of fact - if the cup is on the table.


I think that it is much better put that that statement is true under those conditions.


Yes that's good.

creativesoul's photo
Fri 03/16/12 12:08 PM


Reality is truth. A statement about reality is either true or false.

A fact is truth if it corresponds to current reality.

A statement of fact is true if it corresponds to reality; which is truth.

Reality only exists in the present. It does not exist in the past or the future.


This doesn't seem to work.

If reality is truth, and a fact is truth if it corresponds to reality, and a statement of fact is true if it corresponds to reality(truth), then we would arrive at the following...

A statement of truth is true if it corresponds to truth.






creativesoul's photo
Fri 03/16/12 12:11 PM
So whatever you are claiming about insufficiency of validity for truth isn't applicable here.


I don't think that you understand how logic works.

prashant01's photo
Fri 03/16/12 12:32 PM

So whatever you are claiming about insufficiency of validity for truth isn't applicable here.


I don't think that you understand how logic works.


& I'm doubtful about rationality of your thoughts.


BTW..I wonder,why didn't you say anything about other answers that I provided?

It was perception,conception,indication etc. etc.I have few more answers too.


creativesoul's photo
Fri 03/16/12 12:37 PM


So whatever you are claiming about insufficiency of validity for truth isn't applicable here.


I don't think that you understand how logic works.


& I'm doubtful about rationality of your thoughts.


BTW..I wonder,why didn't you say anything about other answers that I provided?

It was perception,conception,indication etc. etc.I have few more answers too.


Define each one, so that I know what you're talking about.

prashant01's photo
Fri 03/16/12 12:38 PM



So whatever you are claiming about insufficiency of validity for truth isn't applicable here.


I don't think that you understand how logic works.


& I'm doubtful about rationality of your thoughts.


BTW..I wonder,why didn't you say anything about other answers that I provided?

It was perception,conception,indication etc. etc.I have few more answers too.


Define each one, so that I know what you're talking about.

You don't know them??

creativesoul's photo
Fri 03/16/12 12:42 PM
So that I know what you're talking about.

prashant01's photo
Fri 03/16/12 12:46 PM
That's horrible!Really...