Lex, I have to go with klc on this. You're going into things already being negative and assuming they'll be like the others you've known/dated. If you're already looking for things to go wrong, something will go wrong. If you're assuming they will be like others you already know, no matter what, you will find something about them that you don't like.

If I started dating someone and they assumed I was going to be like their ex and he never got over it, I wouldn't be able to date him for long. Who wants to be compared to an ex all the time by someone who is just waiting for you to make the same mistakes they did? It's not good for a relationship.

Well, I've done lots and lots of digging over the past couple of decades.

And it's all the same, every time.

I guess that's the point. If there's nothing else out there, then it would be rather foolish and unrealistic of me to expect to find anything else.

While it would be nice to be able to believe there actually WAS something else out there, history tells me I'm just as well off to believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny, who, in their favor, have never tried to change me (yet).

All I really have to work with here is my own history. My own history tells me certain things are a certain way, that there is no demonstrable deviation. People tell me "Not everybody is like that," but my experience has been that everyone IS like that. Personal history trumps unconfirmed anecdotal accounts and subjective statements of opinion every time. For me, anyway.

You know Lex, that is puzzling to me too. I am not without my own flaws and I expect to be accepted for them. Who am I to tell a man to change who he is. I am not his mommy. Way I figure it, we spend most of our lives taking orders from parents, bosses, the law, the Government, etc; why would I want to come home to even more orders? If I am going to change anything about me; I will do it for me not because my partner expects it. Sounds like brainwashing to me. Lex, I have nothing but respect for what you are saying about this subject.

I met a handful of guys in LA, actors, I felt like they were always pushing their voice to try to impress me. I got tired of it after the first date. Forget building something.

Holy crap, Batman!

There still on the WB Complex.. >.>

Sum it up:

"You can never love nor find the perfect person. You can only learn to view, see, and love the imperfect person perfectly."

Done.


Next...

>.>

Thank you. It's nice to run across someone who is able to see past the standard cliches and platitudes that inevitably get tossed out whenever this sort of thing comes up....!

I like that you tell it like it is. I have told more than one guy in my life to cut the crap and just be upfront with me. I may be too blunt for my own good sometimes but I get my point accross.

But there's a difference. I'm not starting out saying "I agree with your position and I want the same sort of things in life that you want" if it isn't absolutely true.

I don't know the history of other people, true enough; but I'm never going to get to know their histories once it comes out that everything they claimed during the first three months of the relationship was a lie, and an attempt to manipulate me into a false sense of security so they can have an easy go of it later on, when they decide it's time for me to "change"....

Yes, many people say "I'm not like that." You'll notice when I make a post about people who have bad profiles, and I explain why, people will jump in and say "I'm not like that." There's some sort of weird, defensive, knee-jerk reaction thing that seems to compel people to say "I'm not like that" even though no one ever said they were, or even suggested as much. (You'll notice that I never use names or give out any identifiers in my posts on this sort of thing.)

It's just this sort of rapid-fire blanket denial that tends to make me wonder why it's so important that they publicly proclaim "I'm not like that."

Does it even really matter? Do they think I'm going to say, "Oh, look, here are five people who make a completely unverifiable claim that they're not like that, so I must be mistaken"?

What's really happening here is that there are a group of people who are uncomfortable with anything that reaches beyond the warm-n-fuzzy, sweetness-n-light theory of what to write on internet dating sites. These are the ones whose posts are filled with drivel like "It'll happen when you're not looking" or "Looks don't matter, it's what's on the inside that counts." Some of us have moved past that now, and we'd like to deal with other people who are tired of the pointless mainstream blatherings that don't mean anything and don't go anywhere.

Is that too much to ask? There was a time when I would have said "No," but -- let me put it this way, I would love to meet someone who wouldn't try to change me. There have been dozens and dozens who have told me "I would never try to do that" -- but they always do. So "I'm not like that" doesn't carry any weight. It's just words.

Wow.. you guys went waaaayyy off track from what I meant by Bugs turning into Taz, but hey.. have at it.

*grabs some popcorn*

I'm not saying everyone is a liar. I'm saying everyone who has told me "I don't want to change you" is a liar. Big difference.

I don't know everyone. I do (or did) know everyone who claimed they didn't want to change me.

Re: successfully screening potentials -- I have no frame of reference other than that "I don't want to change you" always turns out to be a lie. Successful screening relies on being able to spot differences, nuances, subtleties, and make distinctions based on them, and then act accordingly. When there are no discernible differences, it is extremely difficult to get a feel for who is being honest and who isn't. Especially when it inevitably turns out they never are!

I hear what you're saying, but I don't think you're seeing the depth of my experience here. This is not something that happened once or twice or five or ten times. This is dozens and dozens of times.

Yes, I may be very bad at choosing partners; but, on the other hand, if that's all that's out there, then my selection abilities are irrelevant. I have yet to see anything that would convince me there are any other kinds out there.

The beginning and end of this post contradict each other. First, you say you're not saying everyone is a liar, just everyone that has said that to you. Then at the end, you say that's all that's out there, which to me says you're saying everyone.

..you missed a word. "IF".

That's a small word, big meaning.

Read it again and emphasize the IF.

What are you doing now?

Wait, sorry, let me reiterate my last statement because that might have come off harsh or rude, which I didn't mean to do.

I just meant to state, or point out, that the word 'if' was used in his statement.

Thus, relatively speaking, here's the difference.

EVERYONE is the same.

IF everyone is the same.

Totally changed the meaning of the two fragmented sentences.

oh roasting marshmallows ... kool!

OK, let me try this again. I can't say everybody is a liar -- because I don't know everyone. I'm not going to live long enough to meet everyone in the world, so I can't take an all-inclusive survey.

But, I can say that everyone I've been involved with has lied to me about their intentions for the relationship. It's a large enough statistical sampling for me to feel that it's reasonable to assume I will never meet someone who isn't like that. Particularly since I haven't met anyone for several years and there is no reason for me to believe I will be meeting anyone anytime in the future.

So, to sum it up in a way that should circumvent any obtuseness or deliberate attempts at obfuscation, I simply don't KNOW whether or not there's anyone out there who wouldn't lie to me about their intentions for a relationship. My point is that I have no reason to believe there is, and there is no practical way for me to test this assumption. My conclusion is that, even if there are people out there who would not lie to me about this, the odds of my ever meeting them are so minuscule as to be entirely negligible.

He has still been making the assumption that all that's out there are women like those he's already been with, which is of course not true.

Did they really lie about their intentions for the relationship or is it possible that they just changed their mind when they fell for the wonderfulness of you?

*touches index finger to nose*
yes, that's it exactly!