Ive met lots of pretenders. You have to dig and find evidence.

Well, this is the part that has me bamboozled. If I like someone, I like her the way she is and I would prefer her (generally speaking) to stay that way.

It would never occur to me to try to initiate a relationship with someone, with the underlying purpose of turning her into a completely different person down the road. I can think of few things more insane (not to mention inconsiderate and disrespectful and dishonest) than that.

Ive met lots of pretenders. You have to dig and find evidence.

You know Lex, that is puzzling to me too. I am not without my own flaws and I expect to be accepted for them. Who am I to tell a man to change who he is. I am not his mommy. Way I figure it, we spend most of our lives taking orders from parents, bosses, the law, the Government, etc; why would I want to come home to even more orders? If I am going to change anything about me; I will do it for me not because my partner expects it. Sounds like brainwashing to me. Lex, I have nothing but respect for what you are saying about this subject.

Thank you. It's nice to run across someone who is able to see past the standard cliches and platitudes that inevitably get tossed out whenever this sort of thing comes up....!

I admire the humor in what is a frustrating situation for you.


Except youre not trina date you. Youre trina find a match, ie someone else. If so many folks are telling you "not everybody is like that" isnt that a possibility.
Like you said, all you have to work with is your OWN history. Whats more compelling, is that you dont know the history of other people, only your own. You cant account for everybody if all you have is your own anecdotal accounts.

But there's a difference. I'm not starting out saying "I agree with your position and I want the same sort of things in life that you want" if it isn't absolutely true.

I don't know the history of other people, true enough; but I'm never going to get to know their histories once it comes out that everything they claimed during the first three months of the relationship was a lie, and an attempt to manipulate me into a false sense of security so they can have an easy go of it later on, when they decide it's time for me to "change"....

Yes, many people say "I'm not like that." You'll notice when I make a post about people who have bad profiles, and I explain why, people will jump in and say "I'm not like that." There's some sort of weird, defensive, knee-jerk reaction thing that seems to compel people to say "I'm not like that" even though no one ever said they were, or even suggested as much. (You'll notice that I never use names or give out any identifiers in my posts on this sort of thing.)

It's just this sort of rapid-fire blanket denial that tends to make me wonder why it's so important that they publicly proclaim "I'm not like that."

Does it even really matter? Do they think I'm going to say, "Oh, look, here are five people who make a completely unverifiable claim that they're not like that, so I must be mistaken"?

What's really happening here is that there are a group of people who are uncomfortable with anything that reaches beyond the warm-n-fuzzy, sweetness-n-light theory of what to write on internet dating sites. These are the ones whose posts are filled with drivel like "It'll happen when you're not looking" or "Looks don't matter, it's what's on the inside that counts." Some of us have moved past that now, and we'd like to deal with other people who are tired of the pointless mainstream blatherings that don't mean anything and don't go anywhere.

Is that too much to ask? There was a time when I would have said "No," but -- let me put it this way, I would love to meet someone who wouldn't try to change me. There have been dozens and dozens who have told me "I would never try to do that" -- but they always do. So "I'm not like that" doesn't carry any weight. It's just words.

I would rather have the platitude that I am responsible for my choices and their consequences, and that I can learn from them, than the platitude that everyone is a liar because I havent found my way in successfully screening potentials.

I'm not saying everyone is a liar. I'm saying everyone who has told me "I don't want to change you" is a liar. Big difference.

I don't know everyone. I do (or did) know everyone who claimed they didn't want to change me.

Re: successfully screening potentials -- I have no frame of reference other than that "I don't want to change you" always turns out to be a lie. Successful screening relies on being able to spot differences, nuances, subtleties, and make distinctions based on them, and then act accordingly. When there are no discernible differences, it is extremely difficult to get a feel for who is being honest and who isn't. Especially when it inevitably turns out they never are!

I hear what you're saying, but I don't think you're seeing the depth of my experience here. This is not something that happened once or twice or five or ten times. This is dozens and dozens of times.

Yes, I may be very bad at choosing partners; but, on the other hand, if that's all that's out there, then my selection abilities are irrelevant. I have yet to see anything that would convince me there are any other kinds out there.

The beginning and end of this post contradict each other. First, you say you're not saying everyone is a liar, just everyone that has said that to you. Then at the end, you say that's all that's out there, which to me says you're saying everyone.

insecurity...the need for constant contact. having to know where I am and what I’m doing every moment of the day frightens me.

What are you doing now?

The beginning and end of this post contradict each other. First, you say you're not saying everyone is a liar, just everyone that has said that to you. Then at the end, you say that's all that's out there, which to me says you're saying everyone.

..you missed a word. "IF".

That's a small word, big meaning.

Read it again and emphasize the IF.

OK, let me try this again. I can't say everybody is a liar -- because I don't know everyone. I'm not going to live long enough to meet everyone in the world, so I can't take an all-inclusive survey.

But, I can say that everyone I've been involved with has lied to me about their intentions for the relationship. It's a large enough statistical sampling for me to feel that it's reasonable to assume I will never meet someone who isn't like that. Particularly since I haven't met anyone for several years and there is no reason for me to believe I will be meeting anyone anytime in the future.

So, to sum it up in a way that should circumvent any obtuseness or deliberate attempts at obfuscation, I simply don't KNOW whether or not there's anyone out there who wouldn't lie to me about their intentions for a relationship. My point is that I have no reason to believe there is, and there is no practical way for me to test this assumption. My conclusion is that, even if there are people out there who would not lie to me about this, the odds of my ever meeting them are so minuscule as to be entirely negligible.

oh roasting marshmallows ... kool!