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| Topic: The Cost of Israel to Americans | |
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Israel's Foreign Minister has hinted that his country pressurised Richard Goldstone to recant the findings of the UN Report he wrote following the 2008-2009 Israeli attack on Gaza. The Goldstone Report included accusations that the Israel Defence Forces committed "war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity" against the Palestinians.  http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001004.html http://www.unwatch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=bdKKISNqEmG&b=1313923&ct=7536409 http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=8&x_nameinnews=122&x_article=1299 http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=8&x_nameinnews=122 Those are some great links! From the 1st one.... =-=-=-= GAZA DOCTOR: HAMAS EXAGGERATED GAZA DEATH TOLL – 500 TO 600 KILLED, MOSTLY FIGHTERS, NOT 1,250 As was the case with Lebanon in 2006, and Jenin in 2002, the international media seem to have rushed to maximize the Palestinian death count in Gaza this month to make Israel look as bad as possible, blindly basing their “facts” on pro-Hamas sources, including completely discredited pro-Hamas UN officials. Now more moderate Palestinian doctors have a different story to tell according to Italy’s leading newspaper, Corriere della Sera. The paper today quotes a Palestinian doctor at Shifa Hospital in Gaza City saying that, despite Hamas and UN claims, most of those killed in Gaza were members of the terror groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad. “The number of deaths was between 500-600... most were young men between 17 and 23 who were recruited into the ranks of Hamas, which sent them to be slaughtered,” the doctor said. Corriere della Sera correspondent Lorenzo Cremonesi confirmed that only 600 people were killed, and not 1,300 as was widely reported, based on hospital visits and discussions with families of the victims. (I know Lorenzo Cremonesi personally. He has been very harsh on Israel in the past but is honest and objective enough to now report the truth, unlike so many other international journalists covering the Middle East.) “It was strange that the non-governmental organizations, including Western ones, repeated the high [1,250 death toll] number without checking, but the truth will come to light in the end,” said the Palestinian doctor. “It’s like what happened in Jenin in 2002,” he said. “At the beginning they spoke of 500 dead; afterwards it was clear there were only 54 dead, at least 45 of them fighters.” Corriere della Sera says they have verified the story and know the name of the doctor but are not identifying him to prevent his being killed by Hamas. A Tal al-Hawa resident also told Corriere della Sera: “Armed Hamas men sought out a good position for provoking the Israelis. There were mostly teenagers, aged 16 or 17, and armed. They couldn’t do a thing against a tank or a jet. They knew they are much weaker, but they fired from our houses so that they could blame Israel for war crimes.” NUMBER OF PALESTINIANS INJURED ALSO “GREATLY EXAGGERATED” BY UN OFFICIALS Many international media have stated that 1,250 Palestinians were killed during Israel’s offensive against Hamas in the coastal territory without telling readers and viewers that these were completely unverifiable figures provided by pro-Hamas sources. Foreign governments then rushed to condemn Israel for the supposedly large number of civilians among the Palestinian dead, reporting that as many as half of the casualties may have been civilian. (At the same time, the media all but ignore the 132 other conflicts around the world, despite the much greater numbers of civilians deaths in many. Only today, for example, The Guardian – but not other newspapers – reports that a U.S. airstrike killed 25 civilians in Afghanistan.) Cremonesi, who made several trips to all Gaza’s hospitals and interviewed families of casualties, assessed the number of wounded to be far lower than 5,000, the number quoted by Hamas and repeated by the UN and the Red Cross in Gaza. “It is sufficient to visit the hospitals to understand that the numbers don’t add up,” he wrote. In the European hospital in Rafah, one of the facilities which would presumably be filled with wounded from the “war of the tunnels,” many beds were empty, according to Cremonesi. A similar situation was noted in the Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis, and in the privately-run Amal Hospital Cremonesi reported that only five out 150 beds were occupied. 13 Israelis were also killed during the 3-week operation, which was aimed at halting rocket fire on southern Israel and destroying Hamas’ infrastructure. The Corriere della Sera article can be read (in Italian) here. (For my writing on Jenin in 2002, please see Jeningrad. And on Lebanon in 2006, please see Media Missiles.) *** The IDF’s Gaza Coordination and Liaison Administration said today that they believe Cremonesi’s figures may be an underestimate and as many as 900 Palestinians in total died. They believe as many as 750 are Hamas and Islamic Jihad operatives (and Fatah men executed by Hamas) and 150 Palestinian civilians may have been killed in the conflict. *** The IDF Gaza Division Commander, meanwhile, today branded Hamas’s use of women and children during the offensive in Gaza as “monstrous” and “inhumane.” Brig. Gen. Eyal Eisenberg said the civilians were sent by Hamas to transfer weapons to gunmen during the offensive. He also accused the Islamist militant group of booby-trapping the homes of many civilians. “Entire families in Gaza lived on top of a barrel of explosives for months without knowing,” Eisenberg said. The officer asserted that despite international calls for investigations into alleged war crimes, Israeli soldiers adhered to the highest moral principles while fighting in Gaza. =-=-=-=  i guess people think that everyone hates the Jews like theses people, and will believe all their lies about Israel. |
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Even if I knew everything about what was going on and all the details and ramifications by some miracle... It would probably take months to hatch a plan and it would take an entire book to write it. You ask the impossible. OK...because I am interested in the subject and I have been reading this and other forums you post to, I was just curious about the strength of your convictions, what you base them on...Thanks for being so patient with me Jeannie... If I weren't an artist, I may have been a lawyer or politician in some other life. But I looked into being a lawyer and after participating in a couple of mock trials, I realized I would hate my life and that corruption exists at all levels. Even in mock trials.  I did take a keen interest on how the world works over-all and discovered some very shocking things. It is a very tangled web with some very bad people pulling the strings. If the general public could stop consuming illegal drugs for fun (mostly Americans) it would disrupt the entire criminal organization of the world. And if people refused to engage in war, the weapons business would go down the tubes. So the bottom line is that we, the people, are the foundation of the state of the world today. Taking drugs and squabbling with our neighbors and believing the fear mongering that is peddled to us through the COMPANY CONTROLLED media which is a propaganda machine. I can only do a small part and that is, I don't do drugs and I appose war. Corruption will suck you in if you are in certain occupations. Lawyers take advantage of people's ignorance. I too take a keen interest in World History, current events, and politics but I see more good than bad, a difference between us.... I agree illegal drugs are a problem, but I do not agree with the concept that they control "the criminal organization of the world" as you say..... The drug trade is BIG business and drugs, illegal and legal are one of the real world currencies. Money is basically worthless paper if it can't be traded for the real currency or real value. The real currencies are Drugs, weapons, Guns, Oil and other natural resources, and gold. There are many more, but the stock market trades commodities like currency. Even if we lived in utopia and there was never another war, defense tech development and weapon manufacture would continue... You have a strange vision of utopia. If people lived in peace and had no fear of each other, there would be no need for weapons. Corruption is rooted in individual choice, not occupation..... Some occupations are created because of corruption and crime. Society has laws, people break laws, criminals need lawyers. PS: Not ALL lawyers take advantage of peoples ignorance and not ALL people are ignorant.... People who do not study law, (and there is A LOT TO LEARN) are basically ignorant of the law for the most part. That is why lawyers are needed. If everyone knew the law and the legal system, lawyers would not be needed. You can defend yourself if you know how. Many things that lawyers charge people to do can be done by them if they know just a small amount of law and about the legal system, like a para legal. Everyone is ignorant of something. I did not say that all people are ignorant as an insult. Ignorant is not the same thing as stupid. |
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Edited by
Optomistic69
on
Mon 11/28/11 03:15 PM
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People who do not study law, (and there is A LOT TO LEARN) are basically ignorant of the law for the most part. That is why lawyers are needed. If everyone knew the law and the legal system, lawyers would not be needed. You can defend yourself if you know how. Many things that lawyers charge people to do can be done by them if they know just a small amount of law and about the legal system, like a para legal. Everyone is ignorant of something. I did not say that all people are ignorant as an insult. Ignorant is not the same thing as stupid. Looks Like the Zionist Lobby has Created a hell of a lot of Ignorant people |
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This is what you are up against folks
The Pac's are everywhere ...this is just a sprinkle What is totally unique about AIPAC’s network of political action committees is that they all have deceptive names. Delaware Valley PAC in Philadelphia, San Franciscans for Good Government in California, Cactus PAC in Arizona Chili PAC in New Mexico Beaver PAC in Wisconsin Ice PAC in New York |
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Beaver PAC 
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Beaver PAC I cant help it, that's funny!!
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He's adorable.
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Edited by
Bestinshow
on
Wed 11/30/11 01:32 PM
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I have never understood why conservatives support Israel after all it is a re-distribution of wealth.
american tax payer money distributed to people who do not need it and refuse to work for it. |
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Edited by
s1owhand
on
Wed 11/30/11 05:11 PM
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There are many good reasons to support Zionism. The Jews need a
homeland because they are so widely persecuted for their religious beliefs and due to bigotry. This has been happening for literally thousands of years. Desperate for refuge they longed to return to their original homeland in Israel where they trace their ancestry. Genetic studies even show a link to modern Jews and Israel. But they also have a cultural, historical and emotional tie to the land where they had their original safe haven and where their religion which was the first of the Abrahamic religions and the first western monotheistic religion was born. Many Jews never left this land but over the last 150 years or so many more Jews migrated to Israel in search of refuge. When they became the overwhelmingly largest population of the area after World War II and the Nazi era they re-founded Israel and were immediately attacked by neighboring Arabs who hated the idea of any Jewish presence again in the area. But with no where else to go, the Jews in Israel - the Jewish Zionists - fought back and were able to resist and keep their newly re-formed state of Israel. Now that Jewish Zionist state is the only state in the region which has freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, a free and open democratic process and is also a safe haven for all Jews if they wish to travel or live there safe from persecution. It is a wonderful vibrant country with tremendous education, art, literary, healthcare, scientific, political and religious institutions. Despite Israel's incredibly small population and land size it has a disproportionate share of leaders in many of these area of human endeavor. So there are many things to admire about Zionists and Zionism. And besides it is only 4% of our International Affairs budget to support one of our best true allies - a country who values democracy and freedom as we do. A beacon of enlightenment among the generally backwards repressive theocracies and Islamic radicals in the region. Finally, the Israelis spend almost all of it purchasing US goods and services so it comes right back to our economy. |
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There are many good reasons to support Zionism. The Jews need a homeland because they are so widely persecuted for their religious beliefs and due to bigotry  No, they are not. |
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There are many good reasons to support Zionism. The Jews need a homeland because they are so widely persecuted for their religious beliefs and due to bigotry No, they are not. Right. No Hitler, no WW II, no Inquisition, no pograms in the Pale. No false conspiracy theories, no discrimination against Jews in Libya, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Morocco, Algeria or Lebanon! No discrimination against Jews in Russia? Hey it has not been all that long ago that Jews were barred from a variety of activities right here in the good ole USA! from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_United_States#Antisemitism_in_the_United_States Antisemitism in the United States Main article: History of antisemitism in the United States Anti-Jewish sentiment started around the time of the American Civil War, when General Ulysses S. Grant issued an order (quickly rescinded by President Abraham Lincoln) of expulsion against Jews from the portions of Tennessee, Kentucky and Mississippi under his control. (See General Order No. 11) Antisemitism continued into the first half of 20th century. Jews were discriminated against in some employment, not allowed into some social clubs and resort areas, given a quota on enrollment at colleges, and not allowed to buy certain properties. Antisemitism in America reached its peak during the interwar period. The rise of the Ku Klux Klan in the 1920s, the antisemitic works of Henry Ford, and the radio speeches of Father Coughlin in the late 1930s indicated the strength of attacks on the Jewish community. Antisemitism in the United States has rarely turned into physical violence against Jews. Some more notable cases of such violence include the attack of Irish workers and police on the funeral procession of Rabbi Jacob Joseph in New York City in 1902, the lynching of Leo Frank in 1915, the murder of Alan Berg in 1984, and the Crown Heights riots of 1991. Following the Second World War and the American Civil Rights Movement, anti-Jewish sentiment waned. Some members of the Black Nationalist Nation of Islam claimed that Jews were responsible for the exploitation of black labor, bringing alcohol and drugs into their communities, and unfair domination of the economy. Furthermore, according to surveys begun in 1964 by the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish organization, African Americans are significantly more likely than white Americans to hold antisemitic beliefs, although there is a strong correlation between education level and the rejection of antisemitic stereotypes for all races. However, black Americans of all education levels are nevertheless significantly more likely than whites of the same education level to be antisemitic. In the 1998 survey, blacks (34%) were nearly four times as likely as whites (9%) to fall into the most antisemitic category (those agreeing with at least 6 of 11 statements that were potentially or clearly antisemitic). Among blacks with no college education, 43% fell into the most antisemitic group (vs. 18% for the general population), which fell to 27% among blacks with some college education, and 18% among blacks with a four-year college degree (vs. 5% for the general population).[85] The 2005 Anti-Defamation League survey includes data on Hispanic attitudes, with 29% being most antisemitic (vs. 9% for whites and 36% for blacks); being born in the United States helped alleviate this attitude: 35% of foreign-born Hispanics, but only 19% of those born in the US.[86] Religious tensions continued to exist in the United States, but numerous polls indicated that Jews were no longer the focus of hostility, and indeed that antisemitism is at a low point in the U.S.[citation needed] As an example of religious tension, in 2010 widespread debate erupted over building an Islamic cultural center and mosque in New York City near the World Trade Center site. The city of New York has officially endorsed the project, but public opinion nationwide has been hostile. A Time (magazine) poll in August 2010 of 1000 individuals indicated that 13 percent hold unfavorable views of Jews, compared with 43 percent who had unfavorable views of Muslims, 17 percent who felt unfavorably toward Catholics and 29 percent who viewed Mormons unfavorably.[87][88] By contrast, antisemitic attitudes are much higher in Europe and are growing.[89] |
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I dont hate jews I just hate it that we support Israel when our people are doing without so much, its absurd.
Again I have never understood why conservatives support Israel after all it is a re-distribution of wealth. american tax payer money distributed to people who do not need it and refuse to work for it. |
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Jews are not widely persecuted because of "religious bigotry."
They are hated in Libya, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Morocco, Algeria or Lebanon because of their military action and conquest for land that does not belong to them. Why would anyone hate Jews for their religion? Jews do not try to convert anyone to their beliefs. That is the most endearing thing about them, unlike Muslims and Christians who have been doing it by force for centuries. American "antisemitism" is not because of religious bigotry. Again, Jews keep their religious beliefs to them self and they certainly do not try to convert others. No body really cares about their religion or how they worship their alien God(s). The Anti-Defamation league are a bunch of thugs who bully an threaten people who appose Zionism. They have been investigated by the FBI for spying. ***** Far from living up to its thoroughly undeserved and self-promoted reputation, the Anti-Defamation League has been caught by San Francisco police investigators: 1. illegally spying on at least 950 political organizations, including: the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), the Rainbow Coalition, Green Peace, the Simon Wiesenthal <sp?> Center, the United Auto Workers, the Christic <sp?> Institute, New Jewish Agenda, Operation Rescue, the Liberty Lobby, the Nation of Islam, the United Farm Workers, Act Up, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Lawyers Guild, the Bo Gritz Presidential Campaign, the political movement led by Lyndon LaRouche, and the Citizens Agency for Joint Intelligence; 2. infiltrating countless police and sheriff departments across the country, bribing police officers, and illegally obtaining classified government data on at least 20,000 American citizens; 3. selling information on anti-apartheid groups to agents of the South African government; 4. passing surveillance and classified police data on Arab Americans to Israeli authorities, who then used the ADL data to illegally detain American citizens visiting Israel; and 5. passing off Israeli intelligence propaganda as Anti-Defamation League-generated research in an effort to sway American public opinion and government policy, while never being forced to register as foreign agents, and while even enjoying tax-exempt status with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). Do a google search with the key words: ADL investigated for spying. |
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Jews are not widely persecuted because of "religious bigotry." They are hated in Libya, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Morocco, Algeria or Lebanon because of their military action and conquest for land that does not belong to them. Why would anyone hate Jews for their religion? Jews do not try to convert anyone to their beliefs. That is the most endearing thing about them, unlike Muslims and Christians who have been doing it by force for centuries. American "antisemitism" is not because of religious bigotry. Again, Jews keep their religious beliefs to them self and they certainly do not try to convert others. No body really cares about their religion or how they worship their alien God(s). The Anti-Defamation league are a bunch of thugs who bully an threaten people who appose Zionism. They have been investigated by the FBI for spying. ***** Far from living up to its thoroughly undeserved and self-promoted reputation, the Anti-Defamation League has been caught by San Francisco police investigators: 1. illegally spying on at least 950 political organizations, including: the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), the Rainbow Coalition, Green Peace, the Simon Wiesenthal <sp?> Center, the United Auto Workers, the Christic <sp?> Institute, New Jewish Agenda, Operation Rescue, the Liberty Lobby, the Nation of Islam, the United Farm Workers, Act Up, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Lawyers Guild, the Bo Gritz Presidential Campaign, the political movement led by Lyndon LaRouche, and the Citizens Agency for Joint Intelligence; 2. infiltrating countless police and sheriff departments across the country, bribing police officers, and illegally obtaining classified government data on at least 20,000 American citizens; 3. selling information on anti-apartheid groups to agents of the South African government; 4. passing surveillance and classified police data on Arab Americans to Israeli authorities, who then used the ADL data to illegally detain American citizens visiting Israel; and 5. passing off Israeli intelligence propaganda as Anti-Defamation League-generated research in an effort to sway American public opinion and government policy, while never being forced to register as foreign agents, and while even enjoying tax-exempt status with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). Do a google search with the key words: ADL investigated for spying. 
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I dont hate jews I just hate it that we support Israel when our people are doing without so much, its absurd. Again I have never understood why conservatives support Israel after all it is a re-distribution of wealth. american tax payer money distributed to people who do not need it and refuse to work for it. They support Israel because they believe the mythical religious lies of some Christian Zionists and think that supporting Israel will fulfill the prophecy that their messiah is going to come back and take them all to heaven. |
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Jews are not widely persecuted because of "religious bigotry. Another HOWLER! Here is a little history of the non-persecution of the Jews. http://www.luketravels.com/auschwitz/ |
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I dont hate jews I just hate it that we support Israel when our people are doing without so much, its absurd. Again I have never understood why conservatives support Israel after all it is a re-distribution of wealth. american tax payer money distributed to people who do not need it and refuse to work for it. You must have missed my earlier reply. There are many good reasons to support Zionism. The Jews need a homeland because they are so widely persecuted for their religious beliefs and due to bigotry. This has been happening for literally thousands of years. Desperate for refuge they longed to return to their original homeland in Israel where they trace their ancestry. Genetic studies even show a link to modern Jews and Israel. But they also have a cultural, historical and emotional tie to the land where they had their original safe haven and where their religion which was the first of the Abrahamic religions and the first western monotheistic religion was born. Many Jews never left this land but over the last 150 years or so many more Jews migrated to Israel in search of refuge. When they became the overwhelmingly largest population of the area after World War II and the Nazi era they re-founded Israel and were immediately attacked by neighboring Arabs who hated the idea of any Jewish presence again in the area. But with no where else to go, the Jews in Israel - the Jewish Zionists - fought back and were able to resist and keep their newly re-formed state of Israel. Now that Jewish Zionist state is the only state in the region which has freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, a free and open democratic process and is also a safe haven for all Jews if they wish to travel or live there safe from persecution. It is a wonderful vibrant country with tremendous education, art, literary, healthcare, scientific, political and religious institutions. Despite Israel's incredibly small population and land size it has a disproportionate share of leaders in many of these area of human endeavor. So there are many things to admire about Zionists and Zionism. And besides it is only 4% of our International Affairs budget to support one of our best true allies - a country who values democracy and freedom as we do. A beacon of enlightenment among the generally backwards repressive theocracies and Islamic radicals in the region. Finally, the Israelis spend almost all of it purchasing US goods and services so it comes right back to our economy. |
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I dont hate jews I just hate it that we support Israel when our people are doing without so much, its absurd. Again I have never understood why conservatives support Israel after all it is a re-distribution of wealth. american tax payer money distributed to people who do not need it and refuse to work for it. They support Israel because they believe the mythical religious lies of some Christian Zionists and think that supporting Israel will fulfill the prophecy that their messiah is going to come back and take them all to heaven. |
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Jews are not widely persecuted because of "religious bigotry. Another HOWLER! Here is a little history of the non-persecution of the Jews. http://www.luketravels.com/auschwitz/ I am not denying the holocaust, but religion was NOT why Jew were ever persecuted. It has nothing to do with religion. Why would anyone care what religion they practice? Nobody cares. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 11/30/11 06:27 PM
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I dont hate jews I just hate it that we support Israel when our people are doing without so much, its absurd. Again I have never understood why conservatives support Israel after all it is a re-distribution of wealth. american tax payer money distributed to people who do not need it and refuse to work for it. They support Israel because they believe the mythical religious lies of some Christian Zionists and think that supporting Israel will fulfill the prophecy that their messiah is going to come back and take them all to heaven. Yes, and the Born again fundamentalist Christians like on the 700 club can't wait for that to happen. They are absolutely insane with joy about that because then Jesus will come and raise them up. Those people are completely insane. |
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