Topic: The Cost of Israel to Americans
no photo
Sun 11/27/11 03:31 PM
He also wrote:

Israel’s lack of cooperation with our investigation meant that we were not able to corroborate how many Gazans killed were civilians and how many were combatants.

no photo
Sun 11/27/11 03:32 PM




There are also a view levels called "above top secret." And information that the President, our commander and Chief, is not cleared to see.

That's pushing the classified B.S a little far if you ask me.




Well how far do you think we as citizens should push transparency ??



We should push it as far as possible to expose political corruption and discover the truth.

This is OUR country.


Political corruption is exposed all the time....



laugh laugh laugh laugh

Not nearly enough, and only those who are targeted.

no photo
Sun 11/27/11 03:38 PM





There are also a view levels called "above top secret." And information that the President, our commander and Chief, is not cleared to see.

That's pushing the classified B.S a little far if you ask me.




Well how far do you think we as citizens should push transparency ??



We should push it as far as possible to expose political corruption and discover the truth.

This is OUR country.


Political corruption is exposed all the time....



laugh laugh laugh laugh

Not nearly enough, and only those who are targeted.


I knew you would laugh.....But I am very interested to know just how you would run the country or better, the World....After you fire government, whats your next step going to be?

Optomistic69's photo
Sun 11/27/11 03:43 PM
Israel's Foreign Minister has hinted that his country pressurised Richard Goldstone to recant the findings of the UN Report he wrote following the 2008-2009 Israeli attack on Gaza. The Goldstone Report included accusations that the Israel Defence Forces committed "war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity" against the Palestinians.

mightymoe's photo
Sun 11/27/11 03:48 PM

Israel's Foreign Minister has hinted that his country pressurised Richard Goldstone to recant the findings of the UN Report he wrote following the 2008-2009 Israeli attack on Gaza. The Goldstone Report included accusations that the Israel Defence Forces committed "war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity" against the Palestinians.


\good, those Palestinians deserved it...

laugh laugh

no photo
Sun 11/27/11 03:52 PM






There are also a view levels called "above top secret." And information that the President, our commander and Chief, is not cleared to see.

That's pushing the classified B.S a little far if you ask me.




Well how far do you think we as citizens should push transparency ??



We should push it as far as possible to expose political corruption and discover the truth.

This is OUR country.


Political corruption is exposed all the time....



laugh laugh laugh laugh

Not nearly enough, and only those who are targeted.


I knew you would laugh.....But I am very interested to know just how you would run the country or better, the World....After you fire government, whats your next step going to be?


There is a lot I would do but the first thing I would do is get rid of the Federal Reserve and start printing money backed by real gold and silver.

Not saying I would do a perfect job, but that is where I would start.






Conrad_73's photo
Sun 11/27/11 04:05 PM

Israel's Foreign Minister has hinted that his country pressurised Richard Goldstone to recant the findings of the UN Report he wrote following the 2008-2009 Israeli attack on Gaza. The Goldstone Report included accusations that the Israel Defence Forces committed "war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity" against the Palestinians.
rofl rofl rofl

http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001004.html


http://www.unwatch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=bdKKISNqEmG&b=1313923&ct=7536409


http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=8&x_nameinnews=122&x_article=1299


http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=8&x_nameinnews=122

s1owhand's photo
Sun 11/27/11 04:13 PM


Israel's Foreign Minister has hinted that his country pressurised Richard Goldstone to recant the findings of the UN Report he wrote following the 2008-2009 Israeli attack on Gaza. The Goldstone Report included accusations that the Israel Defence Forces committed "war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity" against the Palestinians.
rofl rofl rofl

http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001004.html


http://www.unwatch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=bdKKISNqEmG&b=1313923&ct=7536409


http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=8&x_nameinnews=122&x_article=1299


http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=8&x_nameinnews=122


Those are some great links!

From the 1st one....

=-=-=-=

GAZA DOCTOR: HAMAS EXAGGERATED GAZA DEATH TOLL – 500 TO 600 KILLED, MOSTLY FIGHTERS, NOT 1,250

As was the case with Lebanon in 2006, and Jenin in 2002, the international media seem to have rushed to maximize the Palestinian death count in Gaza this month to make Israel look as bad as possible, blindly basing their “facts” on pro-Hamas sources, including completely discredited pro-Hamas UN officials.

Now more moderate Palestinian doctors have a different story to tell according to Italy’s leading newspaper, Corriere della Sera. The paper today quotes a Palestinian doctor at Shifa Hospital in Gaza City saying that, despite Hamas and UN claims, most of those killed in Gaza were members of the terror groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

“The number of deaths was between 500-600... most were young men between 17 and 23 who were recruited into the ranks of Hamas, which sent them to be slaughtered,” the doctor said.

Corriere della Sera correspondent Lorenzo Cremonesi confirmed that only 600 people were killed, and not 1,300 as was widely reported, based on hospital visits and discussions with families of the victims. (I know Lorenzo Cremonesi personally. He has been very harsh on Israel in the past but is honest and objective enough to now report the truth, unlike so many other international journalists covering the Middle East.)

“It was strange that the non-governmental organizations, including Western ones, repeated the high [1,250 death toll] number without checking, but the truth will come to light in the end,” said the Palestinian doctor.

“It’s like what happened in Jenin in 2002,” he said. “At the beginning they spoke of 500 dead; afterwards it was clear there were only 54 dead, at least 45 of them fighters.”

Corriere della Sera says they have verified the story and know the name of the doctor but are not identifying him to prevent his being killed by Hamas.

A Tal al-Hawa resident also told Corriere della Sera: “Armed Hamas men sought out a good position for provoking the Israelis. There were mostly teenagers, aged 16 or 17, and armed. They couldn’t do a thing against a tank or a jet. They knew they are much weaker, but they fired from our houses so that they could blame Israel for war crimes.”



NUMBER OF PALESTINIANS INJURED ALSO “GREATLY EXAGGERATED” BY UN OFFICIALS

Many international media have stated that 1,250 Palestinians were killed during Israel’s offensive against Hamas in the coastal territory without telling readers and viewers that these were completely unverifiable figures provided by pro-Hamas sources. Foreign governments then rushed to condemn Israel for the supposedly large number of civilians among the Palestinian dead, reporting that as many as half of the casualties may have been civilian. (At the same time, the media all but ignore the 132 other conflicts around the world, despite the much greater numbers of civilians deaths in many. Only today, for example, The Guardian – but not other newspapers – reports that a U.S. airstrike killed 25 civilians in Afghanistan.)

Cremonesi, who made several trips to all Gaza’s hospitals and interviewed families of casualties, assessed the number of wounded to be far lower than 5,000, the number quoted by Hamas and repeated by the UN and the Red Cross in Gaza. “It is sufficient to visit the hospitals to understand that the numbers don’t add up,” he wrote.

In the European hospital in Rafah, one of the facilities which would presumably be filled with wounded from the “war of the tunnels,” many beds were empty, according to Cremonesi. A similar situation was noted in the Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis, and in the privately-run Amal Hospital Cremonesi reported that only five out 150 beds were occupied.

13 Israelis were also killed during the 3-week operation, which was aimed at halting rocket fire on southern Israel and destroying Hamas’ infrastructure.

The Corriere della Sera article can be read (in Italian) here.

(For my writing on Jenin in 2002, please see Jeningrad.
And on Lebanon in 2006, please see Media Missiles.)

***

The IDF’s Gaza Coordination and Liaison Administration said today that they believe Cremonesi’s figures may be an underestimate and as many as 900 Palestinians in total died. They believe as many as 750 are Hamas and Islamic Jihad operatives (and Fatah men executed by Hamas) and 150 Palestinian civilians may have been killed in the conflict.

***

The IDF Gaza Division Commander, meanwhile, today branded Hamas’s use of women and children during the offensive in Gaza as “monstrous” and “inhumane.”

Brig. Gen. Eyal Eisenberg said the civilians were sent by Hamas to transfer weapons to gunmen during the offensive. He also accused the Islamist militant group of booby-trapping the homes of many civilians.

“Entire families in Gaza lived on top of a barrel of explosives for months without knowing,” Eisenberg said.

The officer asserted that despite international calls for investigations into alleged war crimes, Israeli soldiers adhered to the highest moral principles while fighting in Gaza.

=-=-=-=

drinker

no photo
Sun 11/27/11 04:13 PM







There are also a view levels called "above top secret." And information that the President, our commander and Chief, is not cleared to see.

That's pushing the classified B.S a little far if you ask me.




Well how far do you think we as citizens should push transparency ??



We should push it as far as possible to expose political corruption and discover the truth.

This is OUR country.


Political corruption is exposed all the time....



laugh laugh laugh laugh

Not nearly enough, and only those who are targeted.


I knew you would laugh.....But I am very interested to know just how you would run the country or better, the World....After you fire government, whats your next step going to be?


There is a lot I would do but the first thing I would do is get rid of the Federal Reserve and start printing money backed by real gold and silver.

Not saying I would do a perfect job, but that is where I would start.








I guess you could campaign for Ron Paul then, but I was in reference to Israel....

Optomistic69's photo
Sun 11/27/11 04:58 PM



There is a lot I would do but the first thing I would do is get rid of the Federal Reserve and start printing money backed by real gold and silver.

Not saying I would do a perfect job, but that is where I would start.




JFK Tried that and look what happened to him

You wouldn't be around to do anything elselaugh

no photo
Sun 11/27/11 07:25 PM








There are also a view levels called "above top secret." And information that the President, our commander and Chief, is not cleared to see.

That's pushing the classified B.S a little far if you ask me.




Well how far do you think we as citizens should push transparency ??



We should push it as far as possible to expose political corruption and discover the truth.

This is OUR country.


Political corruption is exposed all the time....



laugh laugh laugh laugh

Not nearly enough, and only those who are targeted.


I knew you would laugh.....But I am very interested to know just how you would run the country or better, the World....After you fire government, whats your next step going to be?


There is a lot I would do but the first thing I would do is get rid of the Federal Reserve and start printing money backed by real gold and silver.

Not saying I would do a perfect job, but that is where I would start.








I guess you could campaign for Ron Paul then, but I was in reference to Israel....


If I was running the country or the world why would I campaign for Ron Paul? laugh


no photo
Mon 11/28/11 04:54 AM









There are also a view levels called "above top secret." And information that the President, our commander and Chief, is not cleared to see.

That's pushing the classified B.S a little far if you ask me.




Well how far do you think we as citizens should push transparency ??





We should push it as far as possible to expose political corruption and discover the truth.

This is OUR country.


Political corruption is exposed all the time....



laugh laugh laugh laugh

Not nearly enough, and only those who are targeted.


I knew you would laugh.....But I am very interested to know just how you would run the country or better, the World....After you fire government, whats your next step going to be?


There is a lot I would do but the first thing I would do is get rid of the Federal Reserve and start printing money backed by real gold and silver.

Not saying I would do a perfect job, but that is where I would start.








I guess you could campaign for Ron Paul then, but I was in reference to Israel....


If I was running the country or the world why would I campaign for Ron Paul? laugh




How about some details on how you would handle foreign policy? All of it...

no photo
Mon 11/28/11 09:34 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 11/28/11 09:49 AM










There are also a view levels called "above top secret." And information that the President, our commander and Chief, is not cleared to see.

That's pushing the classified B.S a little far if you ask me.




Well how far do you think we as citizens should push transparency ??





We should push it as far as possible to expose political corruption and discover the truth.

This is OUR country.


Political corruption is exposed all the time....



laugh laugh laugh laugh

Not nearly enough, and only those who are targeted.


I knew you would laugh.....But I am very interested to know just how you would run the country or better, the World....After you fire government, whats your next step going to be?


There is a lot I would do but the first thing I would do is get rid of the Federal Reserve and start printing money backed by real gold and silver.

Not saying I would do a perfect job, but that is where I would start.








I guess you could campaign for Ron Paul then, but I was in reference to Israel....


If I was running the country or the world why would I campaign for Ron Paul? laugh




How about some details on how you would handle foreign policy? All of it...


First you ask for "some details" then you say "all of it..."

I would have to become a lot more familiar with every detail of our current policy and our budget to do that. Off hand, I can only have a general idea.

to start:

I would investigate corruption and allegations of war crimes and I would not "support" (with money and weapons) any country's aggression or war.

I would crack down on Florida's drug trade and try to get America out of the gun and weapons business.

I would print real money and work to forgive all debts created by the FED.

I would encourage people to buy American, and I would encourage America to produce more of their own products.

I would use our Military for defense rather than for invading third world countries.


















no photo
Mon 11/28/11 10:23 AM











There are also a view levels called "above top secret." And information that the President, our commander and Chief, is not cleared to see.

That's pushing the classified B.S a little far if you ask me.




Well how far do you think we as citizens should push transparency ??





We should push it as far as possible to expose political corruption and discover the truth.

This is OUR country.


Political corruption is exposed all the time....



laugh laugh laugh laugh

Not nearly enough, and only those who are targeted.


I knew you would laugh.....But I am very interested to know just how you would run the country or better, the World....After you fire government, whats your next step going to be?


There is a lot I would do but the first thing I would do is get rid of the Federal Reserve and start printing money backed by real gold and silver.

Not saying I would do a perfect job, but that is where I would start.








I guess you could campaign for Ron Paul then, but I was in reference to Israel....


If I was running the country or the world why would I campaign for Ron Paul? laugh




How about some details on how you would handle foreign policy? All of it...


First you ask for "some details" then you say "all of it..."

I would have to become a lot more familiar with every detail of our current policy and our budget to do that. Off hand, I can only have a general idea.

I would investigate corruption and allegations of war crimes and I would not "support" (with money and weapons) any country's aggression or war.

I would crack down on Florida's drug trade and try to get America out of the gun and weapons business.

I would print real money and work to forgive all debts created by the FED.

I would encourage people to buy American, and I would encourage America to produce more of their own products.

I would use our Military for defense rather than for invading third world countries.

Not counting the first one, the remaining 5 sound good, but how would you accomplish each...The details are what I am interested in Jeannie....

Re number one, before you can criticize anything intelligently (before you can determine what is wrong (or right) about a situation (any situation), you must have more than a general understanding or idea...Foreign policy, budget, economy, and national security are interconnected and interdependent not only within our nation, but globally ......



















no photo
Mon 11/28/11 10:25 AM












There are also a view levels called "above top secret." And information that the President, our commander and Chief, is not cleared to see.

That's pushing the classified B.S a little far if you ask me.




Well how far do you think we as citizens should push transparency ??





We should push it as far as possible to expose political corruption and discover the truth.

This is OUR country.


Political corruption is exposed all the time....



laugh laugh laugh laugh

Not nearly enough, and only those who are targeted.


I knew you would laugh.....But I am very interested to know just how you would run the country or better, the World....After you fire government, whats your next step going to be?


There is a lot I would do but the first thing I would do is get rid of the Federal Reserve and start printing money backed by real gold and silver.

Not saying I would do a perfect job, but that is where I would start.








I guess you could campaign for Ron Paul then, but I was in reference to Israel....


If I was running the country or the world why would I campaign for Ron Paul? laugh




How about some details on how you would handle foreign policy? All of it...


First you ask for "some details" then you say "all of it..."

I would have to become a lot more familiar with every detail of our current policy and our budget to do that. Off hand, I can only have a general idea.

I would investigate corruption and allegations of war crimes and I would not "support" (with money and weapons) any country's aggression or war.

I would crack down on Florida's drug trade and try to get America out of the gun and weapons business.

I would print real money and work to forgive all debts created by the FED.

I would encourage people to buy American, and I would encourage America to produce more of their own products.

I would use our Military for defense rather than for invading third world countries.




Not counting the first one, the remaining 5 sound good, but how would you accomplish each...The details are what I am interested in Jeannie....

Re number one, before you can criticize anything intelligently (before you can determine what is wrong (or right) about a situation (any situation), you must have more than a general understanding or idea...Foreign policy, budget, economy, and national security are interconnected and interdependent not only within our nation, but globally ......

no photo
Mon 11/28/11 10:27 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 11/28/11 10:28 AM
I said:
I would have to become a lot more familiar with every detail of our current policy and our budget to do that.

You said:
Re number one, before you can criticize anything intelligently (before you can determine what is wrong (or right) about a situation (any situation), you must have more than a general understanding or idea...Foreign policy, budget, economy, and national security are interconnected and interdependent not only within our nation, but globally ......

So then according to the above, we agree.

you said:
The details are what I am interested in Jeannie.


I will say again:

I would have to become a lot more familiar with every detail of our current policy and our budget to do that.


no photo
Mon 11/28/11 10:29 AM
Even if I knew everything about what was going on and all the details and ramifications by some miracle...

It would probably take months to hatch a plan and it would take an entire book to write it.

You ask the impossible.


no photo
Mon 11/28/11 10:54 AM

Even if I knew everything about what was going on and all the details and ramifications by some miracle...

It would probably take months to hatch a plan and it would take an entire book to write it.

You ask the impossible.




OK...because I am interested in the subject andI have been reading this and other forums you post to, I was just curious about the strength of your convictions, what you base them on...Thanks for being so patient with me Jeannie...

no photo
Mon 11/28/11 11:14 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 11/28/11 11:17 AM


Even if I knew everything about what was going on and all the details and ramifications by some miracle...

It would probably take months to hatch a plan and it would take an entire book to write it.

You ask the impossible.




OK...because I am interested in the subject and I have been reading this and other forums you post to, I was just curious about the strength of your convictions, what you base them on...Thanks for being so patient with me Jeannie...


If I weren't an artist, I may have been a lawyer or politician in some other life. But I looked into being a lawyer and after participating in a couple of mock trials, I realized I would hate my life and that corruption exists at all levels.

Even in mock trials. laugh laugh

I did take a keen interest on how the world works over-all and discovered some very shocking things. It is a very tangled web with some very bad people pulling the strings.

If the general public could stop consuming illegal drugs for fun (mostly Americans) it would disrupt the entire criminal organization of the world.

And if people refused to engage in war, the weapons business would go down the tubes.

So the bottom line is that we, the people, are the foundation of the state of the world today.

Taking drugs and squabbling with our neighbors and believing the fear mongering that is peddled to us through the COMPANY CONTROLLED media which is a propaganda machine.

I can only do a small part and that is, I don't do drugs and I appose war.

Corruption will suck you in if you are in certain occupations. Lawyers take advantage of people's ignorance.





no photo
Mon 11/28/11 11:51 AM



Even if I knew everything about what was going on and all the details and ramifications by some miracle...

It would probably take months to hatch a plan and it would take an entire book to write it.

You ask the impossible.




OK...because I am interested in the subject and I have been reading this and other forums you post to, I was just curious about the strength of your convictions, what you base them on...Thanks for being so patient with me Jeannie...


If I weren't an artist, I may have been a lawyer or politician in some other life. But I looked into being a lawyer and after participating in a couple of mock trials, I realized I would hate my life and that corruption exists at all levels.

Even in mock trials. laugh laugh

I did take a keen interest on how the world works over-all and discovered some very shocking things. It is a very tangled web with some very bad people pulling the strings.

If the general public could stop consuming illegal drugs for fun (mostly Americans) it would disrupt the entire criminal organization of the world.

And if people refused to engage in war, the weapons business would go down the tubes.

So the bottom line is that we, the people, are the foundation of the state of the world today.

Taking drugs and squabbling with our neighbors and believing the fear mongering that is peddled to us through the COMPANY CONTROLLED media which is a propaganda machine.

I can only do a small part and that is, I don't do drugs and I appose war.

Corruption will suck you in if you are in certain occupations. Lawyers take advantage of people's ignorance.







I too take a keen interest in World History, current events, and politics but I see more good than bad, a difference between us....
I agree illegal drugs are a problem, but I do not agree with the concept that they control "the criminal organization of the world" as you say.....
Even if we lived in utopia and there was never another war, defense tech development and weapon manufacture would continue....
Corruption is rooted in individual choice, not occupation.....

PS: Not ALL lawyers take advantage of peoples ignorance and not ALL people are ignorant....