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| Topic: MY 1ST POST HERE, I JUST WITNESSED A MIRACLE! | |
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Cowboy posted:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Where do you get condemnation out of that? 
In another place in the New Testament there is an account where Jesus tells a story to his disciples about "lost sheep". He suggest that if any of them had lost a sheep surely they would go out to find it and bring it home again. Jesus also suggests to them they surely their father who is in heaven would do so even MORE. So even if Jesus did say these words as they are written verbatim above, it still wouldn't imply that Jesus would "condemn" someone who does not come to him. He could easily go out and seek them out and they would STILL get to the father "by him". So you post verses in an attempt to support a condemnatory Jesus when, in truth, there isn't even anything in the verses that you post that even remotely suggests any such thing. ~~~~~~ Also, realizing that the entire New Testament is indeed hearsay quotes and rumors of what Jesus "might" have said, and can in no way be expected to be a perfect verbatim recording of his precise words, he may very well have said something ever so slightly different that could have an entirely different meaning altogether. He might have actually said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by the things I teach." Given that interpretation, that would allow for any sage who teaches the very same things to also quality as "The Way" to find God. In fact, that's precisely how I personally interpret this particular passage. ~~~~~~~ There really isn't any justification for your "hardcore" approach to constantly attempting to use scriptures to force a condemnatory portrait of Jesus. ~~~~~ That's just totally uncalled for, and doesn't serve anyone any good, not even your religion. So even if Jesus did say these words as they are written verbatim above, it still wouldn't imply that Jesus would "condemn" someone who does not come to him. He could easily go out and seek them out and they would STILL get to the father "by him". Jesus does, Jesus works through people. That is where your conscience comes into play. He will lay something on someone's conscience, then if that doesn't work, if the person ignores these feelings, he will put on another's conscience to go speak with them. Also, realizing that the entire New Testament is indeed hearsay quotes and rumors of what Jesus "might" have said, and can in no way be expected to be a perfect verbatim recording of his precise words, he may very well have said something ever so slightly different that could have an entirely different meaning altogether. Very true. But this applys to any writings, or even verbal recordings. One can not prove another said something, ever. Written documentation could again be hearsay rumours. Verbal recordings could be someone else impersonating the person in mention. And so on and so on. That's where faith comes into play. You obviously have no faith the bible is accurate and or even true at all. That is what YOU have placed your faith in. Doesn't make it any less true, nor does me believing in it make it any more true. Why when someone mentions God in any way you go off into debating on weather God is real or not? And or the Christian faith in general being real or not. That was not the original purpose of this post and you've turned it into a debate. This was a woman coming in here spilling her heart out about what she has found. And all you can do is come in and try to put doubts in her mind and or demean her new findings. There really isn't any justification for your "hardcore" approach to constantly attempting to use scriptures to force a condemnatory portrait of Jesus. I have condemned no one. I said not that someone specific was going to burn, I said no one specific person was going to miss out on heaven. I said not one judgemental statement towards another. Also, why do you always try to point fingers and make another look like they are the bad ones and or the ones in the foul? |
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Cowboy posted:
Very true. But this applys to any writings, or even verbal recordings. One can not prove another said something, ever. If you truly believe this, then why do you constantly shove verses from these ancient texts in people's faces demanding that they accept your verbatim interpretations? 
Why not try letting everyone make up their own mind concerning how they would like to think of "god". That's supposed to be the PROTESTANT method anyway. That was the whole idea behind the Protestant PROTEST. They protested against the Pope and the Catholic Church as being the "spokespersons" for God. Yet, apparently you would like to reclaim that role. This was a woman coming in here spilling her heart out about what she has found. And all you can do is come in and try to put doubts in her mind and or demean her new findings. I trust that this woman is indeed an adult and can handle herself accordingly. She doesn't need you to babysit her. Also, have you no TRUST in God?
If God has indeed saved this woman, I'm sure there would be nothing I could do to change that. Nor would I even care to try. Sounds to me like you have far less FAITH in the POWER of God than I do. Unlike you, I TRUST God to be victorious over any an all obstacles. I don't need for Jesus to be the sacrificial lamb of a god who is appeased by blood sacrifices in order to believe in God. But evidently you do. Who truly has greater FAITH? ~~~~~ All I do is try to point out that RELIGION is not God. ~~~~~ |
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Both of you act like what is MY POINT HERE?
The POINT is YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT WHERE YOU FIGHT GOOD AGAINST EVIL AT? Someone can come on here and say GOOD MORNING,,,,and in THAT thread YOU BOTH FEEL YOU CAN DO COMBAT IN IT,,,, BOTH OF YOU ARE SO FILLED WITH WHO'S RIGHT YOU BOTH DON"T CARE WHO GETS CAUGHT UP IN YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS TO BE RIGHT... IF you want to comment to each other over personal ISSUES you both are having,,,be ADULT about them and BE REAL MEN and take your selves OUTSIDE that post??????? Not RUIN THE POST OVER,,,,PERSONAL INDIFFERENCES YOU SHARE WITH EACH OTHER,,,I'm done here, boys,,,,for its all in the Mods considerations as to how you act in these posts ,,,,NOT MINE.... I just feel ashamed to have friends hurt in this manner on here. |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Tue 09/06/11 07:58 PM
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Cowboy posted:
Very true. But this applys to any writings, or even verbal recordings. One can not prove another said something, ever. If you truly believe this, then why do you constantly shove verses from these ancient texts in people's faces demanding that they accept your verbatim interpretations?
Why not try letting everyone make up their own mind concerning how they would like to think of "god". That's supposed to be the PROTESTANT method anyway. That was the whole idea behind the Protestant PROTEST. They protested against the Pope and the Catholic Church as being the "spokespersons" for God. Yet, apparently you would like to reclaim that role. This was a woman coming in here spilling her heart out about what she has found. And all you can do is come in and try to put doubts in her mind and or demean her new findings. I trust that this woman is indeed an adult and can handle herself accordingly. She doesn't need you to babysit her. Also, have you no TRUST in God?
If God has indeed saved this woman, I'm sure there would be nothing I could do to change that. Nor would I even care to try. Sounds to me like you have far less FAITH in the POWER of God than I do. Unlike you, I TRUST God to be victorious over any an all obstacles. I don't need for Jesus to be the sacrificial lamb of a god who is appeased by blood sacrifices in order to believe in God. But evidently you do. Who truly has greater FAITH? ~~~~~ All I do is try to point out that RELIGION is not God. ~~~~~ If you truly believe this, then why do you constantly shove verses from these ancient texts in people's faces demanding that they accept your verbatim interpretations?
I shove nothing. I state what I believe on the subject and use verses to show where I get my knowledge from. Don't see why you can't understand, I'm not here to try to convert anyone or anything of such. I merely say what I got to say on the subject at hand and show where I got this specific knowledge. I can't help that you have a vendetta against where I get my knowledge and or have problems with where I get it. I also don't demand anything, if one is unclear of exactly how I've interpreted a specific verse(s) on the subject I elaborate for them. And if they take it differently then I do, then we can discuss how each has come to that conclusion. I've never once claimed to have absolute compact interpretations and everyone else was incorrect. Why not try letting everyone make up their own mind concerning how they would like to think of "god". I do, again I demand nothing, I don't demand that someone(s) accept my interpretation. This is a RELIGION forum, so I express my knowledge on the subject at hand. This is a forum for DISCUSSION. NOTHING can be proven, disproved, or is that even an attempt on my side. Who truly has greater FAITH? I don't know. I'm not in a competition to show who has more faith or who's faith is true or not. Why are you? Why is everything such a competition for you? Why must you be top dog on everything? What is the point of the competitive nature you display here? Again, this is a place for a person(s) to come and share their beliefs on the subject at hand. If another doesn't believe as such, they can either discuss why they don't or move on. Again, no one can prove their faith based belief to be true or not, whatever it may be. It's taken on faith and can not physically be proven or disproved. |
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Edited by
luv2roknroll
on
Tue 09/06/11 08:07 PM
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Roberta,,I am so sorry that your spirit of JOY was dampened by those who wish to make any and every topic here THEIR personal vendetta on how THEY FEEL ABOUT LIFE
Thank you, but thats why I posted the "Fanny Brice" song.
NO ONE rains on my parade, unless IVE done something wrong to deserve it. My spirit of joy, was and is, just fine.  I think your testimonial here was uplifting and full of LOVE for Christ
And your reasoning and manners to stay NICE through them,,was fantastic,,for I would have been much more graphic to their disrespect. I did not, at any time, feel anger about what happened.I realize this is a public forum, but definitely never anticipated that kind of reaction to my testimony. I was alittle hurt, at first, but then as I grew to learn more about the people who were behind it,through their posts, and CONSIDERED THE SOURCE, I was fine.
To the bashers who want to just cause harm and open anyones topic to feel its THEIR WAR,,shame on all of you.
I did state that I thought that the bashers should be ashamed at the way they were acting, and thats harsh for me to say. But I was in shock, at the way so called "Christians" were conducting themselves, and eventually, as I learned even more about the bashers, and their complete ignorance, through even more of their posts, I began to find it funny, because it was so unreal, that ANYONE, would ask such ignorant questions, or try to put words in my mouth, or twist what I had said, and not know how ignorant they were making themself look! Or that I was some shy, stupid, little dumb girl, that they could use for target practice, and wouldnt say anything back, just stand there and take it, or tuck my tail and run.
Disrespect,,,IS DISRESPECT,,I don't care if YOUR a Christian or NOT a Christian?
[quoet] Amen Terry, amen!
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Jeannie....a christian is someone who is BORN of God..... a spiritual birth has taken place. That is what born again means.....the spirit of a christian is brand spanking new. HOWEVER,, that born again christian starts off as a new born babe...just like a babe in the natural..and has to grow up. However, The SOUL of that new born babe is NOT born again ; just the spirit of the new born babe in Christ is born again. MEANING, a soulish change is going to reguire WORK on the part of the new born christian....which comes by the daily renewing of his/her mind with the Word of God. So, don't expect a babe to ACT fully mature right away in his/her spiritual walk ..thare will be a lot of poopooing in spiritual diapers, so to speak..... 
but THEN as the babe starts growing up and renews his/her mind daily with the WORD OF GOD(the christians' daily bread), WILL the FULL EVIDENCE of the NEW BIRTH that has taken place, become more and more evident in his/her life . Also,the fruits of the spirit will start showing up more and more in that christian's life,too....as he/she grows up in the Faith. Hope this helps explain, Jeannie.
ps... man is made up of spirit , soul(mind , will ,thoughts, and emotions) and physical body . A christian must renew his mind daily with the Wrod of God, in order to have the mind of Christ more and more(that is the christian's job to do, not God's)... and also,, a christian learns to put his body under subjection to the Holy Spirit, as he/she spirtually grows up. The stronger the spirit of man becomes, the easier it is to WALK IN THE SPIRIT . 
I can hardly wait to deepen my relationship with Jesus, and become the most knowledgeable, and loving Christian I can be. I will be rejoining bible study, at my new church! Praise Jesus! |
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luv2rocknroll,
You talk about "praising Jesus", well, I personally find it to be far more uplifting toward Jesus to think of him as having absolutely nothing to do with modern day Christianity. This is why I become very saddened when I see people falling for the "Church and Dogma" in the name of Jesus. It can be a very sad thing indeed. I think it's great that they have decided to believe in a God. But it's sad that they have ultimately fallen for "religion" that is based on a jealous dogma and the exclusion of anyone who refuses to cower down to that dogma, and especially to the specific interpretations of it that are often being held out by hateful fundamentalists in the name of Jesus for the sake of supporting religious bigotries. That's where my problem lies. Not with Jesus himself. Far from it. Thats why I am very careful what church I choose to attend, and make sure it is one that teaches directly from the bible, the way it is written, and nothing else. I am intelligent to know how to determine that right away. But thanks for the concern!
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I've been condemned and expelled by the "Christians" for no longer believing that Jesus was the son of God. You're not allowed to do that.
Interesting! How can you be a Christian, and not believe Jesus was the son of god, when Christianity centers around the bible, and in the bible it is written, that Jesus was indeed the son of God?
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Fail to believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and you are condemned already.
And why is that surprising to you. It is written so in the bible that Jesus is the only begotten son of god. And if you dont believe what the bible states, and use it as reference, guidance, or a basis upon which you practice your religion. How can you be a Christian?
How can you be a Christian, and not have faith that the words in the bible, are in fact true, and accurate. Thats what faith is. Faith, is having the faith to believe, that what is written in the bible, is true, and accurate, and that the bible contains the knowledge you need to live as a Christian! |
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I have condemned no one. I said not that someone specific was going to burn, I said no one specific person was going to miss out on heaven. I said not one judgemental statement towards another. Also, why do you always try to point fingers and make another look like they are the bad ones and or the ones in the foul? Because thats how he rolls!
He thinks making you look bad, will make him look better, and thats soooooooooo far from the truth. It only makes him look EVEN MORE foolish! |
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Abra,,Cowboy,,PEOPLE,,,I ask YOU PLEASE,,WHAT does someones post of their happiness to BE SAID,,,WITHIN IT,,,makes you feel that you can CRAP ON ALL THAT IS IS? Start a new post and take you FIGHTING WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE SAID AND FOUGHT IN YOUR OWN POST,,,made to derive all that is or isn't Divine through your eyes? Have you NO RESPECT for the anger you hold as your truth separates ALL OTHER LIFE from being able to SHOW YOURS? Is THIS FUN FOR YOU TO DO HERE? Do you point at the less fortunate in a crowd and say THEY AIN'T GOT NO MONEY? Do you stop behind every policemen's car who has someone stopped for speeding and point and chant they got caught? WHAT IS THIS POINT YOUR BOTH NEVER GOING TO MAKE? but YOUR REASON TO BE NASTY IN SOMEONE ELSES POSTS? Go stand outside a Church near you on Sunday and YELL THEIR SINNERS OR THEIR IS NO GOD,,IF YOUR HATE AND FRUSTRATIONS ARE MORE THAN YOU ARE AS A MAN TO SEE AND FEEL THIS DISRESPECT YOUR BOTH AND MANY OTHER IN CARRYING ON??????? Its ok Terry, im fine with all this, and actually I find much of it quite amusing. You can only yell at ignorance so long, before you start laughing in disbelief that ANYONE could actually be that ignorant!
 Carry on, carry on! |
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It's people like you that contribute to the growing rise in atheism. And I don't blame the atheists at all. When you're done portraying Jesus even atheism actually looks inviting.
BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP! WRONG! Sorry Abra but you dont win the big blue teddy bear, your statement was incorrect. Maybe you would be better at throwing the rings at the bottle tops! |
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Edited by
luv2roknroll
on
Tue 09/06/11 09:58 PM
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if anything, I hope that luv2rocknroll recognizes that these arguments don't really have anything at all to do with Jesus himself, but rather with differences of opinions of precisely what different people think that Jesus should represent.
I follow the bible, otherwise I would not be able to call myself a Christian. Christianity is centered upon the writings of the bible, and the faith to believe in, and trust those writings.
I dont know what your religion is really Abra. You dont believe Jesus was the son of God, and many other things that are written in the bible. So IMO you've just CUSTOM FITTED Christianity to what YOU want to believe it is, and not what the bible clearly states. Or made the words and contents what you want them to be. Example:Fred: I can smoke pot because the bible states that anything on the earth is for mans consumption. Tom: But it also states that your body is a temple and you should worship it, and pot is damaging to your body. Notice how Fred CUSTOM FITTED the words to be in his favor... Thats where all the arguments about religion come from, because everyone can interpret the bible THIER OWN WAY, since there is NO SOLID PROOF, what it really means. Thats where FAITH comes in! FAITH is the ability to trust in the words of the bible as a reliable source, to form their beliefs.I have faith in, and trust in the words of the bible, just the way they are written, and dont try to find a way to manipulate those words to my benefit my lifestyle! It seems that Abra, does not feel that the words of the bible are interpreted correctly, and are wrongfully taught to those who are or want to be Christians. And he has his right to that opinion.I believe he has faith in the way he interprets it, and just because its not the most popular choice, does not make him wrong or right. Of course he has trouble with the teachings of Christianity today, if he feels the bible is interpreted incorrectly by most Christians. I finally do GET YOU Abra, your not ignorant, you just have a different outlook, and you are entitled to that! |
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Edited by
luv2roknroll
on
Tue 09/06/11 10:00 PM
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Both of you act like what is MY POINT HERE?
The POINT is YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT WHERE YOU FIGHT GOOD AGAINST EVIL AT? Someone can come on here and say GOOD MORNING,,,,and in THAT thread YOU BOTH FEEL YOU CAN DO COMBAT IN IT,,,, BOTH OF YOU ARE SO FILLED WITH WHO'S RIGHT YOU BOTH DON"T CARE WHO GETS CAUGHT UP IN YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS TO BE RIGHT... IF you want to comment to each other over personal ISSUES you both are having,,,be ADULT about them and BE REAL MEN and take your selves OUTSIDE that post??????? Not RUIN THE POST OVER,,,,PERSONAL INDIFFERENCES YOU SHARE WITH EACH OTHER,,,I'm done here, boys,,,,for its all in the Mods considerations as to how you act in these posts ,,,,NOT MINE.... I just feel ashamed to have friends hurt in this manner on here. No foul, no play Terry. I was, but only for a second, hurt. Let them argue if they want to, I dont care. As long as their not slinging mud at me anymore, its cool.Besides im finally starting to understand Abra now, and see where hes coming from, and its very interesting, and not a bad thing actually, at all!
Im wearing my "Big Girl" panties Terry! But thanks for the concern! |
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Edited by
luv2roknroll
on
Tue 09/06/11 10:16 PM
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I don't know. I'm not in a competition to show who has more faith or who's faith is true or not. Why are you? Why is everything such a competition for you? Why must you be top dog on everything? What is the point of the competitive nature you display here? Cowboy he does this because this is Abras place to shove HIS beliefs down everones throats, just like everyone shoves THEIR beliefs down his throat!
Im glad this thread got to this point, because I FINALLY UNDERSTAND ABRA NOW! Abra(or so it seems) desperately wants you to see, and believe in his interpretation of what Abra believes the bible really means. Which is why this argument, and all arguments, on religion occur. Because we ALL have the ability, to interpret the bible, any way we want. And if Abra chooses to interpret it differently, Abra has that right, but your not gonna change each others views by arguing about it, because you both have completely separate beliefs, faiths, and interpretations of the bible, and religion! I finally understand the meaning behind Abras questions, and statements to me now, since he interprets the bible differently, than most. And hey, whatever floats your boat Abra. Its your right to believe whatever you choose to believe, but the problem with you is, you want to constantly condemn those, who dont see it your way, and thats not fair.They have the right to believe, what they want to believe also. You guys really need to agree to disagree, and believe whatever you want to, its your right. Live, and let live, and you wouldnt be arguing anymore. But heres what I find, VERY MOVING about all of this. I believe(it seems) that Abra feels his interpretation of the bible, displays a kinder, and less demanding, God, who wont send you to hell, if you disobey him.And his God doesnt outcast you, if you dont follow the words of the bible, the way most people interperate them.(I hope I am accurate Abra) And thats not a bad way to believe Abra, its really quite beautiful.
May I add I am also sorry for calling Abra foolish, or ignorant! Now that I understand where he is coming from, he is neither!And I had no right to speak to you like that, anyways. I hope you will forgive me Abra. I would have edited those words out, but I waited too long, and was unable to. God bless all! |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Tue 09/06/11 10:50 PM
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I can already see the love of Jesus shining thru in
you, Luv........and can also see you are already growing in the Word.
And you have only just begin......wow.
God Bless You , Luv........ I think God is going to Shine thru your life in a Mighty Way, Young Lady!!!  <<< green tea with ginseng
God likes the fact that you are REAL,Luv!!!!
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I can already see the love of Jesus shining thru in you, Luv........and can also see you are already growing in the Word.
And you have only just begin......wow.
God Bless You , Luv........ I think God is going to Shine thru your life in a Mighty Way, Young Lady!!! <<< green tea with ginseng
God likes the fact that you are REAL,Luv!!!!
) and 6 weeks of daily radiation.
But here I stand today, healed, and so far, with no re-occurrence of the cancer. It has been 2 years. I do not suffer from lymphedema, and have full use of my right arm. They have told me that because I had "HER2" type cancer,(a VERY AGGRESSIVE form of cancer) that the cancer COULD EASILY return. You are normally in danger for 5 years, after treatment. I know I will not get cancer again in that 5 years, because I believe that God, and my strength, saved my life, and with him by my side, I feel protected. Someone told me the other day, that they knew why God saved my life.They said "because I spread FAITH, and HOPE, everywhere I go, when I share my stories of cancer, and drug addiction, overcame". (and they are both on my profile, for precisely that reason.So that maybe one or more people will read my stories, and say,"Hey, if she did it, so can I!".)She also said that "with my outgoing nature, I would be a cheerleader for God".
Im getting long winded again, get me TALKING about God, and I tend to go on, and on, but hes so awesome, what could be better to TALK about. I love you Jesus, praise you, and hallelujah, praise you Jesus, hallelujah!(I always want him to hear my praises, because I know it pleases him). God bless all!
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Wed 09/07/11 06:17 PM
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Luv, glad you are cancer free, Precious.
Just wanted to share something with you for a few moments, Luv..... The new christian walk is going to bring changes in your life. Old things will start to fall away in your life..old desires will be replaced by new desires. You wlil start to notice that you cannnot carry on in your old lifedtyle,anymore....but if you do, you will no longer feel right about this. When that happens, That is God at work in you..ok?....cause you are now a NEW creation in Christ(btw,this change does not always happen right away..it is usually a slow process). God will start to do a cleaning up from the inside out(which He does in every christian's life, btw). Again....Sometimes this is gradual...sometimes a christians's life is turned around overnight. BUT.... one this is for sure...you will have a HUNGER for the Word of God!!! Another thing I wanted to share... get into a spirit filled church where the power of God is moving, and the full gospel is being taught. Also,ask God to FILL you with the Holy Spirit....personally every christian needs this Infilling by the Holy Spirti in his/her life. It helps us by empowering our lives,and strenghtening our walk . Luv....asking Jesus into your heart is serious business... and ,it is not the same as just meaning it in your head, but not your heart. So I am beleiving you had a heart change, not just a head change. Ok? The evidence of this change will stsrt to really show in your life. Christians turn from their old ways, simply because they are NOW NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST. Be Blessed, Luv Stay in The Word..and Stay Encouraged Now in your new born walk with Jesus.
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Luv, glad you are cancer free, Precious. Just wanted to share something with you for a few moments. Luv..... The new christian walk is going to bring changes in your life. Old things will start to fall away in yuor life..old desires wil be replaced by new desires... You wlil start to notice that you cannnot carry on in your old lifedtyle,or if you do, you will no longer feel right about this. That is God at work in you..ok?....cause yuo are now a new creature in Christ(btw,this change does not always happen right away..it is usually a slow process). God will start to do a cleaning up from the inside out(which He does in every christian's life, btw). Again....Sometimes this is gradual...sometimes a christians's life is turned around overnight. BUT.... one this is for sure...you will have a HUNGER for the Word of God. Another thing I wanted to say...get into a spirit filled church where the power of God is moving.....ask God to FILL you with the Holy Spirit....personally every christian needs this Infilling by the Holy Spirti in his/her life. It helps us by empowering our lives. Luv....asking Jesus into yuor heart is important..it is not the same as just meaning it in your head, but not your heart. So I am beleiving you had a heart change, not just a head change. The evidence of this change will stsrt to really show in your life. Christians turn from their old ways, simply because they are NOW NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST. Be Blessed, Luv Stay in The Word..and Stay Encouraged Now in your new born walk with Jesus.
The two young girls came be again today to give me a new bible,(mine was old tattered and torn), and some more literature about Christianity. I welcomed them back anytime! See, hes always working in me! 
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Wonderful!!!
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