How rich is someone that has their wealth derived from a fiat currency that would no longer exist if the worlds governments came crashing down? How much would real estate or investments be worth if the entire world's society structure collapsed?

It wouldn't be worth a fning thing.


You really think that a few hundred "rich" people are going to be able to hide from billions of people that want their heads on a stick?

I don't think so.

It's all about the lack of trust that comes from within a divided nation.

The oil spill card had nothing to do with BP. Have you ever heard of Exxon Valdez?

And the WTC card you mentioned....that was supposed to be a nuclear bomb. Guess what? The WTC had been truck bombed before the card game came out.

Stop making connections that don't exist. I remember that game. In fact, I still own the cards, along with a few other games like Shadowrun where megacorporations basically run the show. I don't see humans turning into orcs, dwarves, trolls, and elves though.

People often envision things that may happen. The iPad and Palm Pilots came about after Ben Bova wrote about a handheld computer for publishing electronic books as a way to cut costs and increase profits for book publishers. That was back in the early '80s in bimonthly sci-fi magazine called Analog. Much of the technology we have today was inspired by sci-fi stories.

As for terrorism, I was warning people about that before the bombings in Oklahoma City or the World Trade Center during the '90s. Apparently, Andy must have had similar thoughts as I did. It's not rocket science. It's just opening one's eyes to notice the trends in the world around us.

Besides some of these Illuminati-like conspiracy theories would need to involve thousands and thousands of people, even if not directly involved in planning. It's awful hard to keep a lid on something that big. The rule of thumb has always been the fewer, the better. The more people involved, the more likely something is to go wrong and expose everything. And now we have to add decades of time into the equation? Even organized crime has never been able to pull anything like that off.

It isn't a matter of poor people hating poorer people, it is a matter of making those of us who fell from the low end of the middle class into the poverty zone. When you live among the poor you being to see who wants out of that life style and who doesn't. The ones who do bust a$$ and work. They make their kids go to school and slap them when they announce they want to be rap stars or sports stars. The ones who want out may drink on weekends but they don't drink every day! I have seen FAR too much from Middle class America and the Poor America and I have heard this excuse WAY too much, "I can't get a job because I will loose my benefits / government welfare." Now we have so effing many people desperate for work and yet there are those who still insist they "Can't" work when they can if they got off of their fat lazy a$$es!

This is REAL poverty if you need a face to put to it...



There are whole towns like this in Mexico and around the world. If you look here you can find them too.

Now lets compare the faces of Poverty...

A welfare line in America.



Nice clean cloths, most of these people don't look like they missed any meals...

Now we go to another country...



Now trash raiding is prevalent in countries with real poor where they don't get any help. Now how many welfare recipients here have cars while other poor are lucky if they got a donkey?

I knew one homeless guy who didn't beg. He collected cans and bottles wherever he could find them. He was a regular at a recycle center near me. I seen him drink but he never asked anyone for anything. He eventually surprised a lot of us who knew him when he cheerfully took the $40 some odd thousand he earned in recycling over the course of two years of actually working at it and he left for his home state of Oklahoma where he swore up and down he was going to do something positive with his life. He admitted he was an addict fuque up but somewhere he decided for himself he wanted more. The thing is he was one of the rare few who blamed himself for his plight. Most of the time when you talk to others who are poor they blame everyone else for their own personal failures.

When California loosened its standards for welfare back in the 1970s we had a rush of welfare warriors in our state and haven't gotten them to leave yet. The thing is America has done a lot to teach people to become dependent on the king for comfort. That has to end! People need to get back into the values that made America great in the first place. We lost jobs and work ethic. Those of us who do work are offended by those who make excuses as to why they can't. I can understand the issue if someone lost both arms or both legs and couldn't do a normal job. But I have seen many amputees who do work, do produce, and they are more respectable in my book because they suffered a tragic personal loss of themselves and managed to still adapt and overcome.

You can show me a crowd of people. Pick any number, and the greater percentage would actually rather accept hand outs than earn a better life style. The corruption in our system has done a lot to destroy voter faith in the system like you and I both obviously have but in order to affect change it takes organization and planning. It also takes people of liberal ideals to come to terms with the facts of life, human nature, and the personal responsibility welfare systems need to work properly.

The thing is when you scream tax the rich. WHO Exactly? Frankly look at how much money Islam and the Catholic Church alone reap. And is any of that wealth taxed? How about Global Corporations who use loopholes to fudge paying their fare share? How about all the foreign aid to hostile nations like N Korea and Pakistan while we can't even pay our own federal employees? And then how about allowing banks to self regulate through the Federal Reserve? Their profits dry up when the property values fall and they cannot collect so much property tax! We are too fuqued up over the ideas of 'Tax the Rich' to see WHO SHOULD BE GETTING HIT WITH HIGHER TAXES! We punish small business with excessive taxation, mandatory insurance, and looking for any and every violation possible to fine them with. No wonder industry is dwindling down.

And this leads to another problem I see, without the ability to manufacture if we have to really get into a war, and I am talking taking China on, we are so screwed! If China went over the DMZ in S Korea tomorrow we would be forced to nuke them in order to repel the attack. Their industry is ramped up, ours is not. Doesn't the position China is in and their actions towards other nations near them SMACK of Germany 1937 just before they Blitzkrieged Eastern Europe? under the rise of Hitler they managed to go from insolvency in 1928 to a thriving industrial complex by 1936. Then they went from peaceful to hostile in the blink of an eye. Now let us address how China compares,

Their invasion of Tibet, Mongolia, The yellow Islands dispute with Korea AND the threats towards Vietnam since Vietnam found oil there, Taiwan, hacking our internet, stealing our intellectual properties, the trade imbalance (appeasement!), and lastly their seat on the security council of the United Nations. Now going back to the days of the League of Nations, what was Germany saying in 1937 before they attacked East Europe? Did they not have a seat of position in the LoN?

Now if you want to hate the news how about all the advertising that led people into poisoned home loans? How about all the propaganda about living a indebted lifestyle? All that feels good, "squeeze the equity in your property," shpeil? Advertising is far more insidious and worst than just the news! Yes it is more to blame the media for but here is a good question for you, why eat poison when you know it is bad for you? The thing is media is poison and the sheeple flock toe the TV and consume as much of it as they can.

You are familiar with "Plato's Cave" are you not?

I bow to the majesty of your wisdom!

I usually win as the UFO unless I get hammered on constantly from all sides. I never allow myself to dive headlong for any particular victory condition especially the one I chose. ALWAYS KEEP THEM GUESSING AND ALWAYS STRIKE A WEAK SPOT WHEN THE OPPORTUNITY SHOWS ITSELF IF I CAN CRIPPLE AN OPPONENT'S POWER STRUCTURE! The right event card can make such a huge difference in manipulating a situation. The thing is the real game is not played with cards and only one person can be on top. There is no room otherwise on the top of the power pyramid! But likewise in real life even the best plans can randomly get screwed up and the power payers know this. To put someone up to commit suicide for pay isn't something money can usually do. But when you add religious conviction, that is a totally different story!

Yes I know about the Exxon-Valdez incident, but this was AFTER that happened. And besides that, there was an oil spill type incident in the movie Knowing less than a year before this happened on top of this. That is what I call foreshadowing.

As for the WTC thing, I'm familiar with the truck bombing, but that card looks eerily similar to the imagery we saw on 9-11 itself. You're not gonna convince me different.

As for Shadowrun, megacorporations pretty much DO run the show, or at least in part.

No I am just continuing to point out that you have provided NO FACTS at all for any of your claims. Also you are not supposed to attack people either or have you forgotten the forum rules? I am willing to see your so called truth if you actually provide anything to support your claims. We ask and ask and nothing is provided so it leads people to believe there is no evidence.

It's the truth though, our government has been screwing us all over for YEARS. It's just a matter of being able to see it, and you can't or won't.

I don't buy that you would believe me even if I DID give you evidence, because your mind is clearly made up that everything someone like me says is bunk. Prove to me you have an open mind first, then we'll talk. Otherwise the whole exercise is a flat waste of time.

Correction, it is the people IN our government who have been screwing us for years. It isn't the government itself! Do you have any idea how bad I would like to see the people running California into the ground taken out by hostile rebellion? At least if Jerry Brown got lynched we could get some justice for the damage that clown is doing. The fact is we need to get a new party voted in to undo the damage. We need those very same people to impose term limitations on congress and the senate. We need to force the justices to stop reinterpreting the law. We need to enforce the laws we got like Immigration. We need rules to prevent career liars from hanging the carrot out that makes sheeple follow bad votes and bunk laws and programs!

Hey I agree the government is retarded but that doesn't mean I think they were behind 9/11 and as far as science is concerned the official story makes sense. I can't argue about previous knowledge of an attack though because that is just skepticism.

I have my idea of what the truth is just as you have yours. How is asking for you to share your evidence not being open minded? You are wasting more time calling me closed minded then it would be for you to show your evidence so that is obviously not the real reason. You have not given anyone any reason to believe anything you say. If you have all this proof why not post it here? If not for me then all the other people that deserve to know the truth?

If I put it down and people just criticize it, then it was a waste of time. There's no point to me if that's gonna be the case.

Asking for evidence is one thing, but when you ask for it in the context of a clear bias as to what the truth is from your end, it's not quite the same. It amounts to a: "Oh yeah, prove it" attitude, and then when one tries the person just goes: "Oh that's crap....."

Understand what I mean?

If it is ACTUAL evidence it isn't crap is it? Yea lots of the conspiracy theories are crap because people don't actually understand the science and when experts in the field explain it they are all of a sudden part of the conspiracy. Now if you have any actual evidence with either science or documentation proving your theories I would love to see them. If your evidence doesn't hold up to criticism it isn't real evidence is it?

Here's the problem though, some of these so called "scientists" are in the government's back pocket. Just like certain people in the legal system are as well. You have to bear that in mind when you hear things before you believe them. That is to say, consider what agenda they might have, or who might be paying them off. It's really not as simple as you think.

SEE exactly what I said conspiracy theorists would say. Do you have any proof for that claim either? If the official science is so wrong there would be Civil and Structural Engineers complaining about it all over. The movie this thread was started on has a clip from some University Students about how the towers fell. It has the people who were actually doing the air traffic control. The coroner who investigated the plane that never made it to the white house etc. Even one of my civil engineering professors talked to us about why the building fell.

The governments run the colleges too........

And you want proof how about this? One of the sources referenced "debunking" 9-11 conspiracy theories is Popular Mechanics. That magazine is owned by the Hearst Corporation. The Hearst family ranks pretty high up on the world's wealthiest people list, meaning they are among the elite.

Now......if they're among some of the most powerful people world, let's say for a minute they are in on the fact that 9-11 was an inside job. I know I know, you don't believe that, but let's pretend for a minute it was the case. What good would it do them to say anything other than to say the conspiracy theorists are wrong?

The government doesn't run universities. It also doesn't control the students that study there. Just because someone is wealthy does not men they would have any interest in supporting 9/11. Every type of publication would be owned by a wealthy person. I would argue that proving the governments theory wrong would earn them more money and publicity than proving them right. I guess the government controls my engineering instructor and every other engineer out there (including myself).

do you understand the data the scientists put out? if you don't, then you should learn more to understand what they are saying. just because a "scientist" says there is no way a building could fall straight down like that without any data to prove it, that should draw a flag to people. But if you look at the data, and understand it, then the science cannot lie, no matter whose backpocket they are in

When you look at how those buildings fell, and compare them to controlled demolitions, they look VERY similar. There is no building that I know of that collapsed via fire, THAT fast and at THAT rate of speed.

Further there are several people that spoke out in the aftermath about hearing explosions coming from the towers. Are you gonna tell me they were hearing things? Come on now.

If you know the physics the buildings fell how they should. If you have watched demolitions they go from the bottom. The WTC collapsed from the point of impact not the bottom.

no, i cannot say what people heard or didn't hear. I can only draw my conclusions by the evidence at hand. I did some research on it and somewhat understand the "pancaking" effect. I also know that concrete being crushed makes a loud booming noise, like an explosion. you are correct about there not being a building collapsing like that, because no other buildings over 100 stories tall has ever been hit by a fully fueled 747. so there is no way to compare it.