in answering this i think we need to ask vi question why a woman feels she needs to be independent? it may be her nature, or that she has been forced by certain circumstance(s) to be that way which may affect the way she handles her relationship with potential spouses unless she happens to meet a very patient and perceptive person who would be understanding and tolerant to the kind of person she is till things sufficiently weld together enough for stability and continuity.

So you pulled your own definition out of thin air? Sorry, but that doesn't give it any authority. Besides, what you are talking about is "The Feminist Movement", not Feminism. Feminism is the philosophy of equality between the sexes, the Feminist Movement is the collection of organizations and coalitions that push policies and ideas that support or encourage feminism.



I didn't say that non-feminists weren't equal to men. Once again, I'm amazed that so many people have such a hard time simply reading what somebody has written and comprehending the thoughts conveyed.

I'm talking philosophy, not fact and I talking about what non-feminists believe, not what I believe. Women who aren't feminists (ie: believe they are equal to men), don't believe they are equal to men.

I pulled the definition from Wikopedia. In your own words you said this:

" If you aren't a feminist, you don't think you are equal to men. Sorry, but it's a fact. If you think you are equal to men, then you are a feminist, even if you don't want to be. You can't have it both ways. Not be a feminist and still think you are equal to men."


So yes you did day non-feminist were not equal to men. Maybe you need to read what you wrote.

I agree with your statement. There are plenty of men and women who hold value to the older standards of family life where a man felt accomplished and proud to be able to take care of his family. There is nothing wrong with that. Women are not always mis-treated just because their man is a breadwinner. However women are often pegged as GOLDDIGGERS when in search of these "traditional" values. Viking women like myself have never had issues holding their own in society financially or physically. That does not mean we don't like to get pampered and be taken care of by our man.

NavyGirl,

Words have meanings. Look above at the bold words, how did you miss those? I'm not saying women aren't equal to men, I believe in equality and liberty for all people.



Feminism isn't just the movements, it's also a thought, a belief in equality between the sexes. Wikipedia doesn't delve into the fact that feminism doesn't have to be a group of people, it can be a mindset. Wikipedia can be a good source, but you have to keep in mind that it's incomplete. I'm not sure why any woman would be offended at being thought a Feminist, unless you believe I am talking about "Radical Feminism".

i absolutely agree with navygirl, feminism is not about equality between man and woman but for there to be equal rights and opportunities. i know of no reasonable person who will have women denied the right to vote or personal opinion for instance.

You see, here is the problem. I like to have discussions about ideas, but it's very boring having a discussion about the meanings of words. I've posted the dictionary definition of "feminism". I've seen it "rebutted" with a definition from Wikipedia of "Feminism", which actually belongs under the heading "Feminist Movement". Feminism is the philosophy of equality of the sexes. It's not a bad thing.

I can't do this anymore. Every discussion we have had in this thread has revolved around definitions.

I've seen people actively ignore sentences or series of words in a sentence that I have posted in order to come up with a "terrible" thing I've said. You can't have a discussion of ideas that way! I never said men were superior to women, but somehow two separate women have gotten that from two different sentences that clearly didn't convey that message.

What I'm saying is that most of those who are actively posting in this thread are too emotional and irrational for me to feel comfortable continuing this discussion. To be honest, it's as if you aren't women, but terrible stereotypes of what a misogynist thinks women are like. I'm done here, feel free to celebrate.

Thank you. A lot of people don't fully undersand what feminism is about. I know there are fanatics out there but there are in both sexes. Because of feminism; I got to serve on a combat ship alongside men because I got the opportunity. I wasn't there to prove my equality to men or show I was better; just wanted the same right to serve my country.

This thread is too long to read but I will respond to the OP.

The key word in the question here is "independent."

If you are married are you "independent?" Not usually. Husband and wife generally depend on each other for many different things.

But my opinion is that a single independent woman remains single because most (not all) men tend to want to be in control. The opposite are the men who are just looking for a mother to take care of them.

So the woman has a choice. Marry a guy who wants to take away her independence and freedom, or marry a guy who want her to support him and take care of him.

That is why "we" independent women are still single.

Feminists are part of the feminist movement.

Maybe you should stick to talking about what you believe, rather than what you think others believe.

What feminist movement?

Hey Jeannie. Not to split hairs here but some married folks have to be somewhat indpendent of each other. An example is if you have a spouse for instance that travels alot or if you have a military spouse. Sometimes you have to be independent and need to make a major decision without depending or talking it over with your spouse but of course these are the exceptions.

Except workplace equality doesn't extend to the pay grade for some reason still.

Yes, sadly you are correct.

this one-

If you've never heard of it, google is your friend.

No they do not.

If the male was removed from the picture the female in this situation would not "stand on her own" she is dependent on him for her very survival.

So she cannot role model "standing on her own", she is not doing so.

If she wants to role model a dependent woman for her daughter to then model for her daughters to model for her daughters etc... until it is believed by women that this is their role then that is how this kind of belief is created...lol

But this woman cannot stand alone if her paycheck up and leaves her for the secretary.

Men are confused and the men of the past generation have no help to give them about women of this day because they did not have to deal with independent women much. A lot of men of the past assume there is something "wrong" with a women if she doesn't fall into classical role.

It will take some time for it to work out still.

I used to be a dependent woman and learned it is not a safe place to be so I became an independent woman.

This does not mean that I do not enjoy caring for and spoiling my man at all. It just means that the day he decides it is over, my heart may be broken but my life will not be.