Left out a key word:

So it could be said that even they don't know if they are right?

First we have spontaneous generation, and now we have evolution. I wonder they will come up with next?

I've always gone with the origin of everything seeing as it makes the most sense.

Not that it matters if it was a guy or a girl, I was going by the last line that said "What do you say to him?" If it's a girl, it should make absolutely no difference.

A rise in atheism may not really be exactly a rise in atheism, but rather a rejection of religion.

I think science is close to a discovery that will unveil the true spiritual nature of the universe and religion would only get in the way of these types of discoveries.

I see it as a sign of a rise of spirituality and an end to ignorance.

Once we unlock the secrets of the nature of reality, we have come close to discovering the nature of the source of all things.

Exactly. And this is why the Hebrew authors shot themselves in the foot when they decided to make their god character hate heathens.

This is how we can know that what they wrote is necessarily made up fables.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Exactly.

And they reject the religion for honest, sincere, intelligent, and well-intentioned reasons.

At this age (17-25) years many are going through different emotions then when one is older at (40 and up). Our minds change throughout time believing in many things we put our hearts into. Perhaps this young individual will change his mind and follow Christianity again....and perhaps he will remain a Atheist. Perhaps he will follow a different idealogy. I think it is good that he tells his parents about how he feels about it and communicates with them. There are a great deal of younger adults with no communication with their parents.

The main thing is that I hope that this individual and those that believe in atheism can live a life in peace and harmony with those that believe differently. It is important to feel happy in life.

I have met atheists, christians, muslims, wiccans, and buddhist...etc. etc. that each hold firmly on their beliefs and live great lifes running wonderful families. None in my opinion are wrong as they have not forced anyone to believe in what they do.

The ones we need to raise a eyebrow on are those that absolutely judge you and say you will go somewhere undesirable if you don't believe in the same thing. Those for me are dangerous people that can truly hurt others by enforcing fear into them. I hope in the future this will change. If it will I am not sure though.

I too meet many people like this. In fact, thankfully this describes the vast majority of people that I actually meet in person. And like you, I don't feel that any of them are 'right or wrong' they are simply doing what calls to them. And as long as they aren't harming others then I see no harm in it.



Yes, this is where the problem lies. And it only take a few radical individuals to be potentially danger to many other people. The horrible events of 9/11 at the World Trade Centers is a prime example. That was clearly a religiously motivated act.

I also agree that people who go around trying to proselytize any religion using fear tactics, guilt tactics, or anything along those lines are dangerous people. Even if only in a psychological sense.

It's truly a shame, IMHO, that some religions are based on a jealous god concept that actually supports that type of behavior.

I think it has indeed died down over the last few centuries. What we are seeing today is the last sigh of a dying dragon. We're seeing the remnants of what once was. I mean, I think "Christianity" as a religion will continue on for quite some time, but it will become increasingly passive.

The hardcore fundamental proselytizers are slowly running out of hot air. They only have so many accusations they can rely on to support their religious views, and people are becoming increasing wise to the falseness of these accusations and ideals. So they are becoming increasingly laughable. It won't be long before the attraction toward becoming a hardcore proselytizers will no longer exist because no one will take it seriously, not even other Christians.

What often keeps them going today is the moral support they often get from other Christians, "Go get em! Don't give up the faith!"

But that support itself is dying for the hardcore fundies. Partly due to people like myself who won't hesitate to challenge them and expose the fallacies they preach.

This is the whole idea of freedom of speech. If we want to see improvement in the world we need to speak out against the things that impede that improvement.

would you say our support of israel is 'religiously motivated'?


just curious

They believe that they have the most reasonable position from the information available to them, and it is part of their position that they don't claim 100% certainty.

In my experience, intelligent and wise people are comfortable with a lack of certainty and are willing to admit the limitations of their knowledge.




An improved formed of evolution, most likely. There really is no doubt that most or all life on this planet is descended from similar ancestral species.



By 'origin of everything' you mean God? God could certainly have created the universe, and life could still have evolved according to our current theories within that created universe.

It seems to me that all national policy decisions are influenced by several motivations. Having an ally in that region would be part of this picture, and the fear/mistrust of muslims that some americans make Israel more attractive as an ally (for the US)

could it be possible that 9/11 was , likewise, influneced by several motivations, including western policies, and not merely some 'religiously motivated' action?(as america has no unique monopoly on christianity)

no.

\

yes

You will find that many Christians will support Israel because of their beliefs. Militarily, there are other reasons the U.S. supports them I think. 9-11, I believe was more about politics and money. I don't think Ben Laden had anything to do with it.

I guess it depends who reads it, for me its stands out as well but for a different reason, My ex didnt believe I had the right to choose.
As he was the head of the household he made the decisions. I had to ask him before doing almost everything, even to hanging a picture on the wall, incase I put it in the wrong spot.
So if a man takes what is written in the bible and twists it to sound like he is in control a women can be in major trouble..

Cowboy is too young to remember a time when women did not even have the right to vote or to get a loan from a bank without their husband's name on it.

Yes, I had a husband who would not let me chose many things. He wanted full control. There are are still many men today with those same ideas.

why did you HAVE to ask him before doing almost everything? i don't get it. he could not force you to do anything. i suppose you might have feared physical abuse if he was bigger and stronger but in that case it would only have happened once before any sane person would call the police. short of physical action, how can you possibly ALLOW anybody to put you in a position of such subserviance? takes two to dance that tango it seems to me.

Well its not really something that you can understand.
But

I was a young christian girl who married a man that i thought was perfect.
He led a youth group, played in a Christian band, didnt drink smoke, swear or even watch TV. So to me he was everything good.

He was great and then slowely it changes to where you are stuck with children who he will happlily hurt if you go against his wishes. How do you get out of that.. Yep I know people think that when we stay we are dumb.

Now lets say you are in my position.
You aRE 5 FT 3 A HUNDRED ODD POUNDS, HE IS ALMOST 6 FT AND 300 POUNDS.
You have done something wrong so he grabs one of your children, you step in, so he grabs you, he then locks the children outside but where they can still see you and beats you enough to hurt you but to hurt them more..
When he lets you go, he disables the car and phone and goes off to work.. Now you live in the Australian bush you cannot go to far with small children and noone lives close.

I can call the poice and they will take him away, but you know he will come back, he wont care what the police say.

He wont be jailed he only pushed you around,

When he gets home he calmly tells you he will kill you before he lets you leave, but that you will watch the children be hurt first.

Yep I could have left, but its not as easy as you think. Men like that have problems, the problems don go away just because you walk out..

I did leave more then once, but remember I was only a child myself. I went to our church leaders for help and they sent us back, telling me that if I was a good and faithful wife that he would change.

I was told that it is a wifes duty to stay..

Yes I can see many things that I could have done differently, but leaving really was not an option then, I would have placed us all in much more danger by trying to leave then by staying.
That will sound strange but you havent been there, you dont know what its like and eveen in your worst nightmares you wont be able to know what it is like to be helpless.

So judge me if you want. But dont ever tell me what you would do as you have not been there.

As for it taking two to tango, its a litlle like me throwing you to the crocs here and them getting you in a death roll that you cant escape,
while I sit there and say well I think it takes two to tango.
.obviously you are in there with the croc. So you must want to be there or you would have left..

Dream on buddy , its not like that.. Not al of us always have a choice. We do whatever we have to , to survive.

Am I sane, Oh definately, but any sane person would call the police.
Yep and die, the police have no control they cannot watch me every single second, or make sure my children where safe..

I kept them safe. Yep little subserviant Me and I am Golly Gosh proud of myself for doing it. So There

Oh my gosh and if my children ever read this, they would be down your throat in a about 1 second flat, they know why we couldnt leave, and they love and respect me for doing everything I could to keep us safe.

Sadly it is often men like you who who make women who battle through these things feel week, but in reality we are stronger then you will ever know.

I do remember it, not from personal experience but I do have knowledge of such times. And these times themselves were not correct, good, or healthy for people. Men aren't to "CONTROL" the woman. They are to "lead" the person. And when it comes to such things as voting, loans, and or anything else of such, this has absolutely nothing to do with it. Women are separate people, separate beings, if they wish to vote they should have all the ability to do as such. If they wish to get a loan, they should have all the ability to do so on their own. Again, that's not what the bible teaches.

In a family the man is the head of the house. The running of the family itself. But the man isn't the head such as a king or something of such. It is still a semi democracy if you will. The man does have the last say so yes, but the man is to do things to please the woman and or the family in general. They are not to run it in a selfish manner and or all about them.

If you have two people going separate directions, nothing will get done. They need a unity and move in the same direction. To make this easy, God handed man that title. But with that title comes responsibility. Again, the man is to bring home the bacon if you will, the man is to run the family in a Godly way, not his way. The man is to run the family with a stern but soft hand. Stern as to make sure things get done, soft hand to show tenderness for the family and not "control" them. If one can not accomplish something and or will be hard on them to do it, the man is to lend a helping hand to achieve this goal that person needs to complete. Again, it's not about "controlling" anyone/anything. It's about guiding/leading the family in a Godly manner to insure family prosperity.