For one, we are not slaves cause we could choose not to be obedient and live our lives how we wished. We would have no immediate punishment for doing as such. If a slave was to disobey their slave master, they would be punished immediately even possibly put to death for their actions.

And for your



Neither one of those choices are out of freely having the choice. Both are under direst. Maybe not under law or anything, but out of direst and a HAVE TO. Obeying God is never a HAVE to. Just there is consequences for actions and or a reaction to an action.

You're lying now and twisting the words of your very own sciptures:

No where does it say, "And also again with your famous quoting of the not one jot will pass till all prophecies are fulfilled."

Where does it say that? It doesn't!

It says precisely the following:


Matt.518 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


It clearly states until heaven and earth pass.

It also doesn't contain the word "prophecies" at all. At the end it says, "till all be fulfilled", in the context of this sentence that can easily mean until all the laws have been fulfilled. After all, when heaven and earth pass, there will no longer be any need for laws.

So it doesn't say till all prophecies are fulfilled as you claim.

Besides, at the time that Jesus was speaking any "laws" that he was speaking about had clearly not been written down yet. So it makes absolutely no sense to believe that he was referring to his own teachings as the "jots and tittles" of the law.

The extreme abstractions and contortions that you would need to have in place for that to work would require that you totally drop any sort of 'verbatim' approach to these texts.

But once you've agreed to drop a verbatim approach then many other versus can be taken to mean wildly different things as well.

For example, the following quote of Jesus that states"

John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Well, if you're open to loose non-verbatim abstract meanings of versus then I can argue that what Jesus actually mean to say here was,

"no man cometh unto the Father, but by my teachings."

That changes everything and supports an idea that Jesus could have very well been a Jewish Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva.

So once you allow for loose abstract interpretations of verses you loose your hardcore fundamentalist position.

Yet, ironically, that's precisely what you need to do in order to keep your hardcore fundamentalist position alive.

So you're in a "Have your cake and eat it too" situation. The only way you can make your case work is if you allow for abstractions when they suit your needs, but disallow them if they work against you.

You approach to arguments is truly feeble and unconvincing.

It's a good thing you didn't go into the field of science, you wouldn't have made it very far using your type of argumentative approach.

Then if Christians did not enter into service (slavery) under duress or the fear of the wrath of the Lord or of Hell, etc. then why do so many of them attempt to strike fear into non-believers?

And why do they proclaim that non-believers need to be saved? And what do they need to be saved from?

What is this big scary thing that they need to be saved from?

Matthew 5:18

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Notice, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED.

Truly.

Besides a supposedly all-loving God would not make it an ultimatum to obey or die!

Besides, that's not the ultimatum of the Christian God anyway.

The Christian God's ultimatum is, "Either obey or suffer everlasting punishment!"

If we're going to talk about this Christian God let's at least be honest about what this God is like.

Well, any creature who would threaten everlasting punishment if you refuse to obey them is clearly not coming from a place of love.

So the only way for this religion to be true is if this God is based on something other than love.

It's as simple as that.

It's a gross contradiction in terms that a supposedly loving God would threaten people with everlasting punishment if they refuse to become his obedient slaves and only serve his will.

To the religion itself is based on a paradox.

It's a picture of a clearly unloving God who is supposed to be all-loving.

The whole picture is a blatant contradiction from beginning to end.

A supposedly all-loving God who will cast anyone who refuses to obey him into a place of everlasting punishment.

That's a blatant contradiction of what LOVE even means!

I already went through through. You're the one who misquoted it by claiming that it said, "till all prophecies are fulfilled"

So you're the one who is guilty of editing it, not me.

Your religion is so grossly filled with contradiction I can't even begin to believe that you could truly believe it, much less be worried about tying to believe in it myself.

The only thing I can figure is that you are indeed in grave fear of the threat of everlasting punishment, and so you have convinced yourself that to avoid that punishment you must support this story at all cost, no matter how utterly absurd that support gets.

That is all well and good, but you have to follow the laws of man.

So in a sense you are a slave to the state. The state can do whatever it wishes to its little slaves.

I think historically speaking we can look at an atheist led secular state like the Stalinist Soviet Union and deduce that all is not flowers and chocolates when the next pogrom comes to town.

You may not have to concern yourself with heaven or hell, but that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want without regards to consequence.Its foolish to think that.

So in conclusion, atheists think that being free from something that they don't believe exists in the first place, makes their lives better than someone else.

I seriously doubt that..

Sorry, you did not edit it. Didn't read it right the first time. But nevertheless in the verse YOU quoted, it specifically states TILL ALL HAS BEEN FULFILLED. It says HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS for heaven and earth does get destroyed in the end of times. God creates a new heaven and earth for us.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Notice it says "Verily I say unto you, until heaven and earth passes, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth passing is merely a time line. Those laws hold power until heaven and earth passes.

i know the answer to this.... it is about control and money... fear makes the sheep easier to control, so they will do their bidding.

It has nothing to do with fear. God doesn't wished to be "feared". God wishes to be loved just as he loves everyone of us.

So do you think that God will then change his laws again in the new heaven and earth?

Why bother?

What would be the point in changing laws?

Why not just make the laws the way you want them from the very beginning?

I see no value in these unproven myths and rumors.

All they do is serve to confuse.

If the laws in the new heaven and earth are going to be different then how could we know if we're willing to obey God's will?

This is one of the reasons why the religion needed to have a consistent God in the first place. So that you could trust God not to constantly be changing his mind.

A God that you can't trust to remain consistent would be an untrustworthy God.

So this religion end up with a God who had a FEW people in his heaven and the vast majority of souls that he had created burning in a place of everlasting punishment. That can NEVER CEASE, because that would fly in the face of it being everlasting punishment.

So those poor souls who didn't make it into the kingdom of heaven are in a truly pathetic situation of everlasting punishment that can never end because if it ever ends that will force the biblical scriptures to be a LIE.



Are you starting to see why these fables have no prayer of ever being true?

You can follow the laws of man if you wish. But there are many laws. It is a fact that you cannot obey every law without actually breaking another law. The common man does not know all the laws. Even lawyers do not know all the laws. That is why they have to go to the law library.



It does its best anyway. There are some people who are not affected who live sovereign lives and have their own separate community and their own laws and who do not have to pay taxes.



I'm not familiar with what a pogrom is.



I agree. I did not suggest that at all. Atheist are well aware of the law of consequences. Probably more so than people who think they can be born again or go to confession and not have to pay for their crimes.



Of course every case has to be considered on an individual basis. This thread is simply looking at some advantages of unbelief in God and an afterlife.

For some people, who have no sense of their own moral compass, belief in God and punishment might be the best thing for them to live their lives well.

Abra, you either don't listen or do this just to cause contraversy. NOTHING ALONG THE LINES OF LAWS CHANGED. We are not to do the things people were not to do in the old testament, people that lived during the old testament are not to do the things we are not to do. The ONLY thing that is different is when we will be judged. But again nothing CHANGED, they are two totally seperate sets of laws.



How is that not a righteous judgment? Why do YOU need more time? Why do you need more chances? Why Abra? Why not just be obedient this life time? Why wait? Why put off for tomorrow "next life" that you could do today "this life time"?

You know what Cowboy? My X-husband wanted to be loved and respected too. He tried to scare me into doing it.

It just doesn't work to tell someone to love you or die.

God doesn't say love me or die.

1. Government has set up laws. So it's either obey them or go to prison.
2. Your mom/dad set up rules. So it's either obey them or be punished.

They are not "threats". Only informing of the consequences that follow some actions. Only to let YOU know what will come of certain actions.

Then nobody has anything to worry about then.

Didn't know there was. I worry about nothing. I know my judgment will be righteous and I will get what I deserve. Weather that's going to heaven and enjoying the presence of the lord or if I am sent for eternal punishment. I know in my heart soul mind and body that it will be a righteous judgment.

Then I'm not worried for you either. Be well. Be happy.

That is all well and good, but you have to follow the laws of man.

You can follow the laws of man if you wish. But there are many laws. It is a fact that you cannot obey every law without actually breaking another law. The common man does not know all the laws. Even lawyers do not know all the laws. That is why they have to go to the law library.



I agree. I did not suggest that at all. Atheist are well aware of the law of consequences. Probably more so than people who think they can be born again or go to confession and not have to pay for their crimes.



For some people, who have no sense of their own moral compass, belief in God and punishment might be the best thing for them to live their lives well.





It's silly to say an atheist is more aware of the law of consequence than any other religion. Laws are laws and confession nor being born again can rescue someone from the evils or unmoral acts they pursue.

It is also very silly to assume that atheists think they can do whatever they want without regard to consequences which is what the poster was implying. I said that atheist are well aware of the law of consequences.

The topic of this thread was the advantages of unbelief (or non-religious beliefs)

I am sure that there are advantages of having religious beliefs and believing in God, but that is not what this thread is about.