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| Topic: With the People again? | |
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The CBO report I looked at (from2002) was quite a read. I wouldn't blame you for not wantingto bother to take the time to read it. It speaks of the difficulties of comparing compensation between private and federal public employees. They broke it down into classifications of the different kinds of jobs in the public sector.What I got out of the graphs that they used is that a small number of Federal jobs pay better than the same jobs in the private sector. The vast, vast, vast number of federal jobs pay less than the same jobs in the private sector. There are maybe less than 1000 federal jobs that pay 30% or more than the same jobs in the private sector. I don't mind taking the time... I used current reports. I cross referenced them with data I looked up from other government agencies... It took me several hours... This data is not meant to be found... It is buried in different agencies and diferent reports. And... Facts from the government show beyond a doubt that federal jobs pay way better than the same job in the private sector. (to state otherwise is either a delibrate lie or somone has been ... drinking koolaid). Federal Jobs are higher paying than the average private job of same class... Only the executive class in private industry has better pay and benefits. The data is all there... Those people that believe what you just posted won't bother to actually look it up. Those that look it up as I did (job by job and sector by sector) will see the truth. |
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Unions are necessary when the employers exploit their workers. Is the problem of exploitation of workers non existent now? What avenue do violated workers have in case of abuse from their employer? Does it work? This are the questions that should be asked before removing unions. My union helped me when I needed it on my job so my dues which I never noticed I think they were like 50 bucks or so. That union attorney was available to me for free. Unions are now the entity that is exploiting the workers... At least when an employeer exploited them it was noticable. Unions do it by the sneak. and a better question would be... What do we do when small groups can make policy because they 'mob' and act like idiots... I for one am sick and tired of 'rule by mob'... What will all you 'mob' types do when the rest of us decide to put you back in the bottle. We can protest also... I am about ready to put my pen back in my pocket and take up once agian the sword. |
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Lets see when I grew up in the 70's and Unions were strong My mom stayed at home like most of my friends moms did also.. we did not need 2 incomes for a house car ect.
*0's come along and Regan says UNIONS BAD.. people say yea they make more than me( even though they do not understand the unions are what keeps thier wages up in the 1st place) So air traffic controllers are fired by the FEDERAL GOVT. Then the people who collect your trash in Detroit are ordered back to work. 90's come along. Now I( am a pearent and me and my wife have to work as the Union HATERS think if i only make 10 bucks and hour noone else should either. Repuplican Party Throws a Party and GIves themselves Raises even to this date while thge people Must cut back. No leading by example with Union Haters. or the RICH is who really hates the Union and they Tell the poor UNION HATERS what they should think to and they say.. YES SIR> I have a friend who had a Chrysler Franchise and was visited in the 90's by VP's of Chrysler. They told him about a state of the Art plant being built in Mexico. when all was said and done the average wage for a Mexican worker at this plant was $2.45 a day not an hour. Cost savings per vehicle appr 10% or $1900 Cost to the state of Michigan? 3000 jobs in the mid 90's averaging 50k+ a year plus good benefits. What am I really saying here. Can you do the Math for what people who could afford cars were VS those 3000 jobs? Who are the REAL UNION people? Read your Senators rights and Benefits for being a U S Senator. Read who governs thier Salary. Then tell me that the Gustapo is not alive and well in the Gov. office of this fine state that will not mess with who? State Police. Prisons.. and who else? America is close to no more |
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Unions are necessary when the employers exploit their workers. Is the problem of exploitation of workers non existent now? What avenue do violated workers have in case of abuse from their employer? Does it work? This are the questions that should be asked before removing unions. My union helped me when I needed it on my job so my dues which I never noticed I think they were like 50 bucks or so. That union attorney was available to me for free. Unions are now the entity that is exploiting the workers... At least when an employeer exploited them it was noticable. Unions do it by the sneak. and a better question would be... What do we do when small groups can make policy because they 'mob' and act like idiots... I for one am sick and tired of 'rule by mob'... What will all you 'mob' types do when the rest of us decide to put you back in the bottle. We can protest also... I am about ready to put my pen back in my pocket and take up once agian the sword. I am not sure what the temper tantrum is for here maybe not what I wrote. I was stating that as long as workers who are abused by employers have an avenue that will not allow their abuse because they cannot pay for a lawyer then unions are negotiable but if not, not. My union was like paying for car insurance. If I never needed it, great but the day I did, they were right there with no hands out for money. |
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Those that look it up as I did (job by job and sector by sector) will see the truth. Too bad you aren't willing to share that with us. Total compensation packages are probably better in the public sector. That's what labor unions are really all about. They often accept lower salaries and wages in return for better benefits. That's the beauty of collective bargaining. The fact is that you could have had one of those jobs. Instead, you prefer to ***** and gripe because other workers were smart enough to organize for collective bargaining. I think this attitude indicates a sense of envy. Instead of doing what is needed to improve your own situation in life, it is easier to tear down those who were smarter and bring them down to your level. That is how the "race to the bottom" is done in America. |
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Those that look it up as I did (job by job and sector by sector) will see the truth. Too bad you aren't willing to share that with us. Total compensation packages are probably better in the public sector. That's what labor unions are really all about. They often accept lower salaries and wages in return for better benefits. That's the beauty of collective bargaining. The fact is that you could have had one of those jobs. Instead, you prefer to ***** and gripe because other workers were smart enough to organize for collective bargaining. I think this attitude indicates a sense of envy. Instead of doing what is needed to improve your own situation in life, it is easier to tear down those who were smarter and bring them down to your level. That is how the "race to the bottom" is done in America. I did share... I sourced the organizations I looked up... It takes time and effort... You want my exact work... PAY ME. Otherwise do it yourself. Envy... Pah.. I am aghast at the short sighted people that HAVE jobs and can not see the pain of those that do no... Yet are not willing to take a bit less... If I was the governor of that state I would declare a state of emergency... (after all some of the state senators have abrogated their responsibilities). Disolve the Unions. Tell the folks to get back to work if they want to keep their jobs. and fire anyone that was not at work the next day... couple of days without paychecks might remind them they got it better than many WITHOUT jobs. |
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I still say let private COMPETE with federal and pay better wages to their employers, instead of diminishing the wages of those who work federal
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for all of you folks that say that that states budget could be fixed with less 'draconian' measures...
Nope... Problem is that all the other fixes are opposed by the same small 'mobs' that are standing in front of this fix. but the bigest problem is that what these people are doing will spread... and the American majority will at some point STAND UP AND SMACK DOWN ALL OF THEM... None of you seem to realize what this can do to the country... the divisions that have sprung up around all this political manuevering for control have consequences... there is a reason why Japan considered us a sleeping giant... It ain't republicans, it ain't democrats, it aint Unions or anti-unions, it ain't corporations... The vast majority of Americans don't get involved in these petty squabbles... and the small groups that are 'squabbling' will ignite that vast majority... Which will promptly EAT them. |
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You want my exact work... PAY ME. I would only pay for good quality work. There's no indication that this is what we're talking about here. Thanks, I'll pass.
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for all of you folks that say that that states budget could be fixed with less 'draconian' measures... Nope... Problem is that all the other fixes are opposed by the same small 'mobs' that are standing in front of this fix. but the bigest problem is that what these people are doing will spread... and the American majority will at some point STAND UP AND SMACK DOWN ALL OF THEM... None of you seem to realize what this can do to the country... the divisions that have sprung up around all this political manuevering for control have consequences... there is a reason why Japan considered us a sleeping giant... It ain't republicans, it ain't democrats, it aint Unions or anti-unions, it ain't corporations... The vast majority of Americans don't get involved in these petty squabbles... and the small groups that are 'squabbling' will ignite that vast majority... Which will promptly EAT them. Tell me Bush gave 700 billion in tax cuts to the rich in 2001. probally one of the 1st things on his agenda. We were told give the rich tax breaks and they will create jobs. How many jobs were created during the Bush era? How much did your income increase? Now our Pres. wants to do away with these tax cuts for the rich and the Repuplicans say no. Either we get this or the millions who are running out of Unemployment benefits can starve. The American way. Thier is a trend here. The Repuplicans had last minute tactics for a tax break for the rich. Wisconsins Repuplicans have no need to hear the people who have organized what? They do not want to listen to nobody because they can do whatever they want and what can the people say? apperently 25,000 citizens on the Capitals steps means nothing to NEW ERA DEMOCRACY or does it? |
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I think you have that backwards. Private has to compete so they will offer competitive pay and benefits. You only have to be a desirable employee. Was this referring to my post? "The government doesn't produce a product that has to compete against foreign companies that pay their workers $2 a day." This was in reference to the fact that private companies compete and that is why the disparity in salaries and benefits.. No it wasa reference to Ms Harmonys Post |
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I think you have that backwards. Private has to compete so they will offer competitive pay and benefits. You only have to be a desirable employee. wrong, read the mood of the country, read the mood in these posts people are expected to WORK,,DAMN what the pay is,,, meaning when enough people are DESPERATE enough to work for works sake and not be 'picky' about price, that leaves employers free to assign work to the lowest bidder,,,, That depends what skills you have to offer and how desirable you are. Sure if It's a job anyone can do they have no reason to be competitive. Before I left the US I had a Job offer with pay of 78k but I turned them down. They said if I changed my mind. It wasn't a lowest bidder thing. I had a recruiter contact me in December for a job in upstate NY and asked how much I wanted. It's just about being des |
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I think you have that backwards. Private has to compete so they will offer competitive pay and benefits. You only have to be a desirable employee. wrong, read the mood of the country, read the mood in these posts people are expected to WORK,,DAMN what the pay is,,, meaning when enough people are DESPERATE enough to work for works sake and not be 'picky' about price, that leaves employers free to assign work to the lowest bidder,,,, That depends what skills you have to offer and how desirable you are. Sure if It's a job anyone can do they have no reason to be competitive. Before I left the US I had a Job offer with pay of 78k but I turned them down. They said if I changed my mind. It wasn't a lowest bidder thing. I had a recruiter contact me in December for a job in upstate NY and asked how much I wanted. It's just about being desirable |
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for all of you folks that say that that states budget could be fixed with less 'draconian' measures... Nope... Problem is that all the other fixes are opposed by the same small 'mobs' that are standing in front of this fix. but the bigest problem is that what these people are doing will spread... and the American majority will at some point STAND UP AND SMACK DOWN ALL OF THEM... None of you seem to realize what this can do to the country... the divisions that have sprung up around all this political manuevering for control have consequences... there is a reason why Japan considered us a sleeping giant... It ain't republicans, it ain't democrats, it aint Unions or anti-unions, it ain't corporations... The vast majority of Americans don't get involved in these petty squabbles... and the small groups that are 'squabbling' will ignite that vast majority... Which will promptly EAT them. Tell me Bush gave 700 billion in tax cuts to the rich in 2001. probally one of the 1st things on his agenda. We were told give the rich tax breaks and they will create jobs. How many jobs were created during the Bush era? How much did your income increase? Now our Pres. wants to do away with these tax cuts for the rich and the Repuplicans say no. Either we get this or the millions who are running out of Unemployment benefits can starve. The American way. Thier is a trend here. The Repuplicans had last minute tactics for a tax break for the rich. Wisconsins Repuplicans have no need to hear the people who have organized what? They do not want to listen to nobody because they can do whatever they want and what can the people say? apperently 25,000 citizens on the Capitals steps means nothing to NEW ERA DEMOCRACY or does it? 25,000 my eye... or better 25,000 of what? How many voters reside in that state... As I said before I am tired of rule by small 'mob'... so then you feel that because these people can yell, scream, call names and wave signs they are the majority? they are far from the majority... and those democrat senators that fled their responsibilities are grandstanding. Majority of the folks in that state elected Republicans for a reason... Reckon the majority is tired of 'rule by mob'. so your false statements above are simply spin. |
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You want my exact work... PAY ME. I would only pay for good quality work. There's no indication that this is what we're talking about here. Thanks, I'll pass. the 'quality' of my 'work' on this subject will become apparent in a few years... The math is quite right. If you think what the baby boomers will do to social security is bad... Wait till the peak of baby boomers hits the federal retirement system... When it happens i doubt you will even remember this conversation. |
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I think you have that backwards. Private has to compete so they will offer competitive pay and benefits. You only have to be a desirable employee. wrong, read the mood of the country, read the mood in these posts people are expected to WORK,,DAMN what the pay is,,, meaning when enough people are DESPERATE enough to work for works sake and not be 'picky' about price, that leaves employers free to assign work to the lowest bidder,,,, That depends what skills you have to offer and how desirable you are. Sure if It's a job anyone can do they have no reason to be competitive. Before I left the US I had a Job offer with pay of 78k but I turned them down. They said if I changed my mind. It wasn't a lowest bidder thing. I had a recruiter contact me in December for a job in upstate NY and asked how much I wanted. It's just about being desirable not JUST about desirable, trust me, if someone JUST as desirable as you were willing to do it at a lower rate,, they would get the job,,, |
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Edited by
artlo
on
Thu 02/17/11 07:05 PM
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If you think what the baby boomers will do to social security is bad... The baby boomers will do exactly what they were originally supposed to do to Social Security. The Social Security Trust Fund is SUPPOSED to run out around 2042, when all us baby boomers will be dead. As it is, this Republican-caused recession has darkened that horizon a bit. Now it's down to about 2037. Easily fixed if they were to raise the cap above $106,000 a bit.
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If you think what the baby boomers will do to social security is bad... The baby boomers will do exactly what they were originally supposed to do to Social Security. The Social Security Trust Fund is SUPPOSED to run out around 2042, when all us baby boomers will be dead. As it is, this Republican-caused recession has darkened that horizon a bit. Now it's down to about 2037. Easily fixed if they were to raise the cap above $106,000 a bit. If you actually believe the tripe that the recession was caused by the Republicans alone then there is little I can do for you. Democrats and Republicans alike are responsible for that. Each has had chances in the past to do what was necessary to deflect it. Warnings abounded from all sides and have for years... Yet all of our politicians continued with business as usual. If you think the recession was bad wait a bit. It was nothing compared to what is coming down the pike. the time for doing what is necessary is now. Instead, however our politicians are continuing with politics as usual, finger pointing as usual, and fighting their political 'war' with each other as usual. Unemployement is collateral damage to that 'war'. Defict is collateral damage to that 'war'. Civility apparently has become collateral damage to that 'war'. and 'spin' has become a way of life. |
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Edited by
Chazster
on
Thu 02/17/11 07:58 PM
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I think you have that backwards. Private has to compete so they will offer competitive pay and benefits. You only have to be a desirable employee. wrong, read the mood of the country, read the mood in these posts people are expected to WORK,,DAMN what the pay is,,, meaning when enough people are DESPERATE enough to work for works sake and not be 'picky' about price, that leaves employers free to assign work to the lowest bidder,,,, That depends what skills you have to offer and how desirable you are. Sure if It's a job anyone can do they have no reason to be competitive. Before I left the US I had a Job offer with pay of 78k but I turned them down. They said if I changed my mind. It wasn't a lowest bidder thing. I had a recruiter contact me in December for a job in upstate NY and asked how much I wanted. It's just about being desirable not JUST about desirable, trust me, if someone JUST as desirable as you were willing to do it at a lower rate,, they would get the job,,, Thats assuming there are more desirable people than jobs. Usually a desirable person gets multiple offers. Not to mention a company goes through a long process to determine who they want to hire. When they say we want you they don't want to start all over and they don't offer the same job to more than one person at the same time. |
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for all of you folks that say that that states budget could be fixed with less 'draconian' measures... Nope... Problem is that all the other fixes are opposed by the same small 'mobs' that are standing in front of this fix. but the bigest problem is that what these people are doing will spread... and the American majority will at some point STAND UP AND SMACK DOWN ALL OF THEM... None of you seem to realize what this can do to the country... the divisions that have sprung up around all this political manuevering for control have consequences... there is a reason why Japan considered us a sleeping giant... It ain't republicans, it ain't democrats, it aint Unions or anti-unions, it ain't corporations... The vast majority of Americans don't get involved in these petty squabbles... and the small groups that are 'squabbling' will ignite that vast majority... Which will promptly EAT them. Tell me Bush gave 700 billion in tax cuts to the rich in 2001. probally one of the 1st things on his agenda. We were told give the rich tax breaks and they will create jobs. How many jobs were created during the Bush era? How much did your income increase? Now our Pres. wants to do away with these tax cuts for the rich and the Repuplicans say no. Either we get this or the millions who are running out of Unemployment benefits can starve. The American way. Thier is a trend here. The Repuplicans had last minute tactics for a tax break for the rich. Wisconsins Repuplicans have no need to hear the people who have organized what? They do not want to listen to nobody because they can do whatever they want and what can the people say? apperently 25,000 citizens on the Capitals steps means nothing to NEW ERA DEMOCRACY or does it? 25,000 my eye... or better 25,000 of what? How many voters reside in that state... As I said before I am tired of rule by small 'mob'... so then you feel that because these people can yell, scream, call names and wave signs they are the majority? they are far from the majority... and those democrat senators that fled their responsibilities are grandstanding. Majority of the folks in that state elected Republicans for a reason... Reckon the majority is tired of 'rule by mob'. so your false statements above are simply spin. Ruled by mob. Teachers and students ect. Who are underpaid everywhere you go. who teach our children. who give up better paying jobs to teach. wow.. This is a dictator who HATES UNIONS. But the ones who should not be in a Union are the Police , state patrol. prison guards. Authority he is saying needs to have more. they need to be represented. Why? Gustapo tactics. Thats not grand standing thats trying to stand up for those who need representation. This is not a Wisconsin Issue this is Nation Issue. Cairo I read. a few hundred thousand in a nation |
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