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| Topic: Do you think that.... - part 2 | |
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The paradise that is created for us is a GIFT. A gift is earned through love. If one has no other choice but to believe, what then is the gift a reward of? Can you explain to me how in the world a gift is supposed to be earned? By definition, a gift is: "something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation" If you give someone something, you do it cause you love them, you care about them, and want them to have whatever it may be you wish to give. It's not given because they jumped through x number of hoops, or are even just a good person, it's simply given out of love, with no strings attached. It cannot be earned, because if it could be it would no longer be a gift. Furthermore, in the Christian belief system, you pretty much DO have no other choice but to believe. Sure you can choose not to, but......if you do that you die forever. So you basically are forced upon the threat of death to believe in your God. It's all about fear and intimidation, and little about love. here is the deal, we are humans and we sin and therefore we DIE,,,that is the REALITY not a threat the blessing is the opportunity to rise above that REALITY its akin to catching a disease that is fatal and then being given the opportunity to have a life saving surgery the surgery is a choice, if one is too scared or too stubborn , they do not have to have it,,,that is not a threat but if one has the faith and the belief in medicine, they can take the chance that their fate might be changed that is the chance the believer/nonbeliever takes with their own life its not a threat Let me ask you something, simple question here. If you were a parent, what would be the better thing to tell your child? That they were a good person worthy of love, respect and all things good, or that they were evil and had no good in them apart from you and deserved death if not for you? Common sense tells you that the former would obviously be more beneficial to the child right? Yet you're gonna claim that God, the parent of all of us, creator of all around us, and one who is on an entirely different spiritual plane then we are, is gonna see us as the latter? Does that really make sense? So yeah, it's a threat. What christianity, and religion as a whole really does, is make us seem lesser than we really are, to tie us down to the belief system. It enslaves us to it, instead of really freeing us and giving us the ability and confidence to do anything we want to. I tell my child noone is perfect, the equivalent of noone fitting Gods definition of 'good' I also tell them they dont have to be perfect to be loved, the equivalent of Jesus sacrifice to our imperfect existence I tell them when they make good choices they are less likely to have a bad end, similar to the advice of the bible on getting to a specific type of end I tell them it is in THEIR hands, just like the Bible tells me, to make good choices and not bad and I have, being brought up in church and loving God and reading my bible, have all the 'freedom' I need so yeah, as a parent and one who adores her parents, it makes perfect sense to me actions have CONSEQUENCES, thats the bottom line, whatever source it comes from Yes actions do have consequences, DOWN HERE. What you claim God does though is, even if one sees Him and realizes His power and glory, and begs for forgiveness, He will turn the person away and send them to die. That's not very loving. You would NEVER do that as a parent to your kid, no upstanding parent would and yet God does? Really? when did I claim such a thing? its like hitting the lotto, I have no certainty of who will be turned away or not, I only know the minimum requirement I WAS GIVEN to receive Gods grace You don't have to claim it per se, but your belief system says this will happen. It makes no sense whatsoever, what loving parent, what loving person would ever do such a thing? They wouldn't, and if they wouldn't, there is NO way God would. where does 'my belief system' say this,,, Christianity in general teaches that people will be turned away does it not? Don't try and pull away from it now. You have a length of an entire life time, how much more time would one need? And no it doesn't teach that people will be turned away. You make the first step to either turning away or turning toward our father in heaven. YOU choose to either worship our father or TURN away. How can one turn away from you after you've already turned away from them? They wouldn't need to turn away from you, for you would have already done that. The time is not the point, the fact is God does it, and no loving parent would ever ever ever reject a forgiving child, I don't care how long it may have taken for them to come back. Again, God doesn't "reject" anyone. Heaven is a reward for our obedience. How can this reward be given to someone that lived their life disobediently? Life isn't set up like this Birth - live - go to heaven *or get "rejected" Life goes Birth -live - get reborn - receive the gift for giving your life up to our father and being reborn. |
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The paradise that is created for us is a GIFT. A gift is earned through love. If one has no other choice but to believe, what then is the gift a reward of? Can you explain to me how in the world a gift is supposed to be earned? By definition, a gift is: "something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation" If you give someone something, you do it cause you love them, you care about them, and want them to have whatever it may be you wish to give. It's not given because they jumped through x number of hoops, or are even just a good person, it's simply given out of love, with no strings attached. It cannot be earned, because if it could be it would no longer be a gift. Furthermore, in the Christian belief system, you pretty much DO have no other choice but to believe. Sure you can choose not to, but......if you do that you die forever. So you basically are forced upon the threat of death to believe in your God. It's all about fear and intimidation, and little about love. here is the deal, we are humans and we sin and therefore we DIE,,,that is the REALITY not a threat the blessing is the opportunity to rise above that REALITY its akin to catching a disease that is fatal and then being given the opportunity to have a life saving surgery the surgery is a choice, if one is too scared or too stubborn , they do not have to have it,,,that is not a threat but if one has the faith and the belief in medicine, they can take the chance that their fate might be changed that is the chance the believer/nonbeliever takes with their own life its not a threat Let me ask you something, simple question here. If you were a parent, what would be the better thing to tell your child? That they were a good person worthy of love, respect and all things good, or that they were evil and had no good in them apart from you and deserved death if not for you? Common sense tells you that the former would obviously be more beneficial to the child right? Yet you're gonna claim that God, the parent of all of us, creator of all around us, and one who is on an entirely different spiritual plane then we are, is gonna see us as the latter? Does that really make sense? So yeah, it's a threat. What christianity, and religion as a whole really does, is make us seem lesser than we really are, to tie us down to the belief system. It enslaves us to it, instead of really freeing us and giving us the ability and confidence to do anything we want to. I tell my child noone is perfect, the equivalent of noone fitting Gods definition of 'good' I also tell them they dont have to be perfect to be loved, the equivalent of Jesus sacrifice to our imperfect existence I tell them when they make good choices they are less likely to have a bad end, similar to the advice of the bible on getting to a specific type of end I tell them it is in THEIR hands, just like the Bible tells me, to make good choices and not bad and I have, being brought up in church and loving God and reading my bible, have all the 'freedom' I need so yeah, as a parent and one who adores her parents, it makes perfect sense to me actions have CONSEQUENCES, thats the bottom line, whatever source it comes from Yes actions do have consequences, DOWN HERE. What you claim God does though is, even if one sees Him and realizes His power and glory, and begs for forgiveness, He will turn the person away and send them to die. That's not very loving. You would NEVER do that as a parent to your kid, no upstanding parent would and yet God does? Really? when did I claim such a thing? its like hitting the lotto, I have no certainty of who will be turned away or not, I only know the minimum requirement I WAS GIVEN to receive Gods grace You don't have to claim it per se, but your belief system says this will happen. It makes no sense whatsoever, what loving parent, what loving person would ever do such a thing? They wouldn't, and if they wouldn't, there is NO way God would. where does 'my belief system' say this,,, Christianity in general teaches that people will be turned away does it not? Don't try and pull away from it now. You have a length of an entire life time, how much more time would one need? And no it doesn't teach that people will be turned away. You make the first step to either turning away or turning toward our father in heaven. YOU choose to either worship our father or TURN away. How can one turn away from you after you've already turned away from them? They wouldn't need to turn away from you, for you would have already done that. The time is not the point, the fact is God does it, and no loving parent would ever ever ever reject a forgiving child, I don't care how long it may have taken for them to come back. Again, God doesn't "reject" anyone. Heaven is a reward for our obedience. How can this reward be given to someone that lived their life disobediently? Life isn't set up like this Birth - live - go to heaven *or get "rejected" Life goes Birth -live - get reborn - receive the gift for giving your life up to our father and being reborn. But again, how can it be a gift if there are requirements on receiving it? It can't! |
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But again, how can it be a gift if there are requirements on receiving it? It can't! Think of it like this: God will send you a check for a million dollars, but you have to send him a pre-addressed and stamped envelope. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Mon 02/07/11 01:43 PM
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But again, how can it be a gift if there are requirements on receiving it? It can't! Think of it like this: God will send you a check for a million dollars, but you have to send him a pre-addressed and stamped envelope. Nothing you say is gonna change the definition of what a gift is. If it's being given ONLY if you do certain things, then it's simply not a gift. |
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But again, how can it be a gift if there are requirements on receiving it? It can't! Think of it like this: God will send you a check for a million dollars, but you have to send him a pre-addressed and stamped envelope. Nothing you say is gonna change the definition of what a gift is. If it's being given ONLY if you do certain things, then it's simply not a gift. No, you are right. A gift is freely given and doesn't cost a thing. My previous analogy was terrible. Question: If you were to give gifts to everyone in your family, but not everyone in the world, does that mean what you gave to your family weren't gifts? Christians believe that the fall of Adam drastically changed the relationship between mankind and God. Before the fall, Adam and Eve were a part of God's family. After the fall, they became a part of Satan's family. Jesus put it like this: "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father." In Romans 8:15, we are told: "The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, 'Abba, Father.'" We are told that by accepting Jesus as our savior and willingly doing the will of God, we are adopted into his family. Being family has it's rewards, including the family's vacation home (paradise / heaven). We don't have to work to earn the gifts, we just have to become members of the family and follow the families' rules. |
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But again, how can it be a gift if there are requirements on receiving it? It can't! Think of it like this: God will send you a check for a million dollars, but you have to send him a pre-addressed and stamped envelope. I am glad then that you sent your god a pre-addressed, stamped envelope... I have no need to send such... My god sends directly to me by the spiritual internet... Which all humans are attached to. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Mon 02/07/11 03:56 PM
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tell ya what
here is a resource with many of the common questions asked on the topic of the bible and christianity http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html for those who have an IOTA of a chance of believing something different than what they already believe and here is a resource with all the many common 'disputes' about the bible and christianity http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/refuting_the_bible.html seems the bottom line for any thread in this forum is this BELIEVE WHAT MAKES SENSE TO YOU AND YOUR EXISTENCE, ACCORDING TO WHAT PRIORITIES YOU HAVE IN YOUR LIFE, AND WE WILL ALL COME TO FIND OUT WHAT THE ENDS OF THOSE BELIEFS WILL BE |
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tell ya what here is a resource with many of the common questions asked on the topic of the bible and christianity http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html for those who have an IOTA of a chance of believing something different than what they already believe and here is a resource with all the many common 'disputes' about the bible and christianity http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/refuting_the_bible.html seems the bottom line for any thread in this forum is this BELIEVE WHAT MAKES SENSE TO YOU AND YOUR EXISTENCE, ACCORDING TO WHAT PRIORITIES YOU HAVE IN YOUR LIFE, AND WE WILL ALL COME TO FIND OUT WHAT THE ENDS OF THOSE BELIEFS WILL BE One thing I know for sure is that Christian pastors can't be trusted to be honest. On the contrary they can often be the most deceitful people around. And the truly sad part about this is that Christians suck up to this crap so easily! The book is called: "Heaven is for Real: A Little Boy's Astounding Story" by Todd Burpo It's being sold as a supposed account of a Near Death Experience of a 4-year-old-boy who's Father (the author of the Book) just happens to be an evangelical pastor.  Supposedly when this boy went to heaven he saw a heaven just as was described in the Bible with Pearly Gates and streets paved in Gold. Everyone in heaven has WINGS! Yippee! Including Jesus who is a fair-skinned blue-eye Caucasian! The Christian reviews of this book are not the least bit surprising, most everyone is holding this book up as PROOF that heaven does indeed exist just as described in the Bible. A few non-believers left a few comments, and of course were quickly chastised by the Christians, but those non-believer made some really great points! For one thing this 4-year-old boy sure did remember one hell of a lot of DETAILS from this near death experience, for example Jesus supposedly actually told the boy the only Born Again Christians can enter heaven! (sound like evangelical proselyting by his dad the actual author of the book to me!) And here's another interesting thing. Someone asked why there needs to be a gate on heaven in the first place? Who would be able to try to enter if they don't belong there anyway? Who are they trying to keep out? Then someone else pointed out that this book supposedly saw that all the angels are wearing swords in heaven and when he asked why they were all wearing swords they said that they wear them to keep Satan out of heaven. So we're supposed to believe that Satan is ROAMING FREE just outside of heaven and could basically attack heaven at will if he wanted to and that all the angels in heaven need to be constantly prepared to do battle with him? Oh PLEASE? How anyone could give this pastor's book even the slightest bit of consideration as being anything more than a blatant sick attempt at proselyting his religion is beyond me. And using his own 4-year-old son as an excuse to do it too boot. From my perspective, the mere fact that Christians are eating this crap up and defending it, only reveals to me that many of them are simply desperate to defend the belief no matter how absurd it gets. |
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tell ya what here is a resource with many of the common questions asked on the topic of the bible and christianity http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html for those who have an IOTA of a chance of believing something different than what they already believe and here is a resource with all the many common 'disputes' about the bible and christianity http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/refuting_the_bible.html seems the bottom line for any thread in this forum is this BELIEVE WHAT MAKES SENSE TO YOU AND YOUR EXISTENCE, ACCORDING TO WHAT PRIORITIES YOU HAVE IN YOUR LIFE, AND WE WILL ALL COME TO FIND OUT WHAT THE ENDS OF THOSE BELIEFS WILL BE One thing I know for sure is that Christian pastors can't be trusted to be honest. On the contrary they can often be the most deceitful people around. And the truly sad part about this is that Christians suck up to this crap so easily! The book is called: "Heaven is for Real: A Little Boy's Astounding Story" by Todd Burpo It's being sold as a supposed account of a Near Death Experience of a 4-year-old-boy who's Father (the author of the Book) just happens to be an evangelical pastor. Supposedly when this boy went to heaven he saw a heaven just as was described in the Bible with Pearly Gates and streets paved in Gold. Everyone in heaven has WINGS! Yippee! Including Jesus who is a fair-skinned blue-eye Caucasian! The Christian reviews of this book are not the least bit surprising, most everyone is holding this book up as PROOF that heaven does indeed exist just as described in the Bible. A few non-believers left a few comments, and of course were quickly chastised by the Christians, but those non-believer made some really great points! For one thing this 4-year-old boy sure did remember one hell of a lot of DETAILS from this near death experience, for example Jesus supposedly actually told the boy the only Born Again Christians can enter heaven! (sound like evangelical proselyting by his dad the actual author of the book to me!) And here's another interesting thing. Someone asked why there needs to be a gate on heaven in the first place? Who would be able to try to enter if they don't belong there anyway? Who are they trying to keep out? Then someone else pointed out that this book supposedly saw that all the angels are wearing swords in heaven and when he asked why they were all wearing swords they said that they wear them to keep Satan out of heaven. So we're supposed to believe that Satan is ROAMING FREE just outside of heaven and could basically attack heaven at will if he wanted to and that all the angels in heaven need to be constantly prepared to do battle with him? Oh PLEASE? How anyone could give this pastor's book even the slightest bit of consideration as being anything more than a blatant sick attempt at proselyting his religion is beyond me. And using his own 4-year-old son as an excuse to do it too boot. From my perspective, the mere fact that Christians are eating this crap up and defending it, only reveals to me that many of them are simply desperate to defend the belief no matter how absurd it gets. I cant say for sure what people see when they are near death, so I wouldnt say with certainty whether this person was being deceitful or not but people defend their beliefs vehemently from all walks of life people use deformities in children to sometimes defend their opposition to interracial bonding sometimes they use ACCEPTIONAL accomplishments by interracial persons as some defense of their belief that interracial is superior we accept what we accept for whatever reason we accept it and to whatever intent it supports but it is our path and not our intentions that will determine our destination in the end |
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But again, how can it be a gift if there are requirements on receiving it? It can't! Think of it like this: God will send you a check for a million dollars, but you have to send him a pre-addressed and stamped envelope. I am glad then that you sent your god a pre-addressed, stamped envelope... I have no need to send such... My god sends directly to me by the spiritual internet... Which all humans are attached to. This. God is always around and can be seen and felt anywhere, if you are looking. |
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tell ya what here is a resource with many of the common questions asked on the topic of the bible and christianity http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html I went to this site to sincerely give it a chance. I read the first three links "General Introduction for Non-Believers". I'm not the least bit impressed by this man's arguments. His arguments are typical, shallow, and do not hold water, IMHO. He's just repeating the same crap I've heard a billion times over. He has nothing new to offer. He just took the standard arguments and laid them out in a one-sided web-site to make it look like he's dismissing everything he doesn't like whilst supporting everything that supports his agenda. In other words, all he's doing is arguing his own case to himself on a website hoping that when people read it they'll just agree with all his conclusions. Well, I don't. |
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Again, God doesn't "reject" anyone. are you serious cowboy? According to which god? the god of the jews in the OT rejects anyone that isn't jewish. Having lived in Jerusalem it's as simple as talking to any rabbi i've gotten this message. Read the OT. this angry jealous god tells the hebrew to people to kill kill kill kill the gentiles. But wait, jesus comes along and condemns this (why would god condemn his own words assuming you believe jesus is god) christianity was formed to include the gentiles. JW's have the same mentality as the jews thinking they belong to some exclusive club that they and only they will go to heaven regardless how you live. Islam..same way. Yet all three abraham cults plus JW's worship the same god. God's "Chosen" people..if that's not rejection i don't know what is. |
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tell ya what here is a resource with many of the common questions asked on the topic of the bible and christianity http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html I went to this site to sincerely give it a chance. I read the first three links "General Introduction for Non-Believers". I'm not the least bit impressed by this man's arguments. His arguments are typical, shallow, and do not hold water, IMHO. He's just repeating the same crap I've heard a billion times over. He has nothing new to offer. He just took the standard arguments and laid them out in a one-sided web-site to make it look like he's dismissing everything he doesn't like whilst supporting everything that supports his agenda. In other words, all he's doing is arguing his own case to himself on a website hoping that when people read it they'll just agree with all his conclusions. Well, I don't. my point exactly,, exactly how I feel about the other site which REFUTES my beliefs,,,but which I also provided my guess is non believers will find the non believer site less 'one sided' than believers just as believers probably find the believer site to be less 'one sided' than non believers will |
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Again, God doesn't "reject" anyone. are you serious cowboy? According to which god? the god of the jews in the OT rejects anyone that isn't jewish. Having lived in Jerusalem it's as simple as talking to any rabbi i've gotten this message. Read the OT. this angry jealous god tells the hebrew to people to kill kill kill kill the gentiles. But wait, jesus comes along and condemns this (why would god condemn his own words assuming you believe jesus is god) christianity was formed to include the gentiles. JW's have the same mentality as the jews thinking they belong to some exclusive club that they and only they will go to heaven regardless how you live. Islam..same way. Yet all three abraham cults plus JW's worship the same god. God's "Chosen" people..if that's not rejection i don't know what is. tomato tomahto does God reject us or must we first reject God the wonder is that we can still ACCEPT God after we have rejected him, that we have a lifetime to do so |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Mon 02/07/11 07:58 PM
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Again, God doesn't "reject" anyone. are you serious cowboy? According to which god? the god of the jews in the OT rejects anyone that isn't jewish. Having lived in Jerusalem it's as simple as talking to any rabbi i've gotten this message. Read the OT. this angry jealous god tells the hebrew to people to kill kill kill kill the gentiles. But wait, jesus comes along and condemns this (why would god condemn his own words assuming you believe jesus is god) christianity was formed to include the gentiles. JW's have the same mentality as the jews thinking they belong to some exclusive club that they and only they will go to heaven regardless how you live. Islam..same way. Yet all three abraham cults plus JW's worship the same god. God's "Chosen" people..if that's not rejection i don't know what is. tomato tomahto does God reject us or must we first reject God the wonder is that we can still ACCEPT God after we have rejected him, that we have a lifetime to do so I've never rejected God in my entire life.  But I have recognized that certain human myths are full of lies, religious bigotry, and hatred toward anyone who refuses to accept them. They are extremely divisive man-made religions that can only lead to negative argumentative discussions and finger-pointing between believers and non-believers of the myths. I also know quite many atheists who have also never rejected any God at all. They simply don't believe that a God exists. And non-belief in a God does not equate to rejection of a God. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.  Thus we must assume that if a supposedly all-intelligent God should happen to exist, then She too would understand that non-belief doesn't not constitute rejection. It makes no sense to pretend to have an all-intelligent God who is so stupid that he/she/it can't comprehend the difference between non-belief and a free will choice to reject a God. That simply makes no sense. Thus, any religion that claims that this must be true, must necessarily be a false religion. So this very claim by a religious myth proves that it is indeed nothing more than a man-made myth. It proves its own falseness. |
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According to which god? the god of the jews in the OT rejects anyone that isn't jewish. Having lived in Jerusalem it's as simple as talking to any rabbi i've gotten this message. Read the OT. Rahab wasn't Jewish and according to James, she was "justified by works" and in Hebrews 11 says "By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace". this angry jealous god tells the hebrew to people to kill kill kill kill the gentiles. Wait a second...you are a theology major? Have you read the Old Testament? The Israelites weren't told to kill Gentiles, they were told to kill the Canaanites, which was a small subset of Gentiles. And when they finally rid Canaan of the Canaanites, they lived in peace except when their neighbors attacked them. But wait, jesus comes along and condemns this (why would god condemn his own words assuming you believe jesus is god) Jesus never condemned the conquest of Canaan. |
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"Jesus never condemned the conquest of Canaan"
 Jesus was not around during the 'conquest of Canaan'... and when he was on earth he had more important things to do than debate that subject...  |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Mon 02/07/11 11:24 PM
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Again, God doesn't "reject" anyone. are you serious cowboy? According to which god? the god of the jews in the OT rejects anyone that isn't jewish. Having lived in Jerusalem it's as simple as talking to any rabbi i've gotten this message. Read the OT. this angry jealous god tells the hebrew to people to kill kill kill kill the gentiles. But wait, jesus comes along and condemns this (why would god condemn his own words assuming you believe jesus is god) christianity was formed to include the gentiles. JW's have the same mentality as the jews thinking they belong to some exclusive club that they and only they will go to heaven regardless how you live. Islam..same way. Yet all three abraham cults plus JW's worship the same god. God's "Chosen" people..if that's not rejection i don't know what is. tomato tomahto does God reject us or must we first reject God the wonder is that we can still ACCEPT God after we have rejected him, that we have a lifetime to do so I've never rejected God in my entire life. But I have recognized that certain human myths are full of lies, religious bigotry, and hatred toward anyone who refuses to accept them. They are extremely divisive man-made religions that can only lead to negative argumentative discussions and finger-pointing between believers and non-believers of the myths. I also know quite many atheists who have also never rejected any God at all. They simply don't believe that a God exists. And non-belief in a God does not equate to rejection of a God. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Thus we must assume that if a supposedly all-intelligent God should happen to exist, then She too would understand that non-belief doesn't not constitute rejection. It makes no sense to pretend to have an all-intelligent God who is so stupid that he/she/it can't comprehend the difference between non-belief and a free will choice to reject a God. That simply makes no sense. Thus, any religion that claims that this must be true, must necessarily be a false religion. So this very claim by a religious myth proves that it is indeed nothing more than a man-made myth. It proves its own falseness. not believing in God is not rejecting God, but it is also not condusive to being WELCOMED to reside with him you may not believe I live in my house, or more accurately, you may not believe I exist,,, but if that is the case, I havent got the chance to 'reject' you because, for you, I dont exist and if you indeed never believed I existed, what have you lost if I dont invite you to my home? thats not rocket science either however, for those who do believe or know I exist, I reserve the right to invite whom I choose to for whatever reason I choose to and IM more likely to invite those who respect me than those who call me stupid or evil or inadequate,,,etc,,, |
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According to which god? the god of the jews in the OT rejects anyone that isn't jewish. Having lived in Jerusalem it's as simple as talking to any rabbi i've gotten this message. Read the OT. Rahab wasn't Jewish and according to James, she was "justified by works" and in Hebrews 11 says "By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace". this angry jealous god tells the hebrew to people to kill kill kill kill the gentiles. Wait a second...you are a theology major? Have you read the Old Testament? The Israelites weren't told to kill Gentiles, they were told to kill the Canaanites, which was a small subset of Gentiles. And when they finally rid Canaan of the Canaanites, they lived in peace except when their neighbors attacked them. But wait, jesus comes along and condemns this (why would god condemn his own words assuming you believe jesus is god) Jesus never condemned the conquest of Canaan. again you don't know what you're talking about. You do know that the term gentile was given to anyone that wasn't jewish right? All throughout the OT , god tells his prescious chosen ones to kill non believers not to mention their own if they breat petty laws such as working on saturdays or the more taboo ones ie adultery, beastiality. As far as the Canannites goes, what did they do to deserve such genocide other than rejecting god's faith which makes no sense seeing that you had to be "jewish" to be in the Jew exclusive faith. They didn't just slaughter the men, but they were commanded to slaughter the children as well and keep the women as concubines. But it didn't start and stop with the canannites, moses was told to slaughter the Midianites. Along with those that were victims of god's genocide were the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites and will not go into the genocides that muslims have carried out in god's name. On Jesus..according to your (assuming you're christian if not the christian doctrine) the whole purpose of jesus being on earth was to rebuke jewish law or to perfect the jewish religion that included non semites..or the gentiles according to which christian school of thought you ask. So even though he didn't specify what he condemned, he was never specific in anything he said, his message was to in a sense say you jews got it all wrong..again this is silly if you believe that he's God..it makes no sense that god would establish a religion, manifest himself in flesh to rebuke his own religion, set things in motion that he would die for the sins of man when he could have just waved a finger and made it so, venture to hell to save souls that he himself condemned to hell before he came to earth. Of course it's pending this really happened. |
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Again, God doesn't "reject" anyone. are you serious cowboy? According to which god? the god of the jews in the OT rejects anyone that isn't jewish. Having lived in Jerusalem it's as simple as talking to any rabbi i've gotten this message. Read the OT. this angry jealous god tells the hebrew to people to kill kill kill kill the gentiles. But wait, jesus comes along and condemns this (why would god condemn his own words assuming you believe jesus is god) christianity was formed to include the gentiles. JW's have the same mentality as the jews thinking they belong to some exclusive club that they and only they will go to heaven regardless how you live. Islam..same way. Yet all three abraham cults plus JW's worship the same god. God's "Chosen" people..if that's not rejection i don't know what is. tomato tomahto does God reject us or must we first reject God the wonder is that we can still ACCEPT God after we have rejected him, that we have a lifetime to do so I've never rejected God in my entire life. But I have recognized that certain human myths are full of lies, religious bigotry, and hatred toward anyone who refuses to accept them. They are extremely divisive man-made religions that can only lead to negative argumentative discussions and finger-pointing between believers and non-believers of the myths. I also know quite many atheists who have also never rejected any God at all. They simply don't believe that a God exists. And non-belief in a God does not equate to rejection of a God. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Thus we must assume that if a supposedly all-intelligent God should happen to exist, then She too would understand that non-belief doesn't not constitute rejection. It makes no sense to pretend to have an all-intelligent God who is so stupid that he/she/it can't comprehend the difference between non-belief and a free will choice to reject a God. That simply makes no sense. Thus, any religion that claims that this must be true, must necessarily be a false religion. So this very claim by a religious myth proves that it is indeed nothing more than a man-made myth. It proves its own falseness. not believing in God is not rejecting God, but it is also not condusive to being WELCOMED to reside with him you may not believe I live in my house, or more accurately, you may not believe I exist,,, but if that is the case, I havent got the chance to 'reject' you because, for you, I dont exist and if you indeed never believed I existed, what have you lost if I dont invite you to my home? thats not rocket science either however, for those who do believe or know I exist, I reserve the right to invite whom I choose to for whatever reason I choose to and IM more likely to invite those who respect me than those who call me stupid or evil or inadequate,,,etc,,, The problem with this logic is, by not being "welcomed" into God's home, you burn forever, or at the least die according to Christian beliefs. That's far far different than simply not inviting certain people somewhere, they can always do other things with other people. There's no punishment factor there like here. |
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