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Sorry Dragon but just because you get a refund doesn't mean you don't pay taxes it just means you over paid your taxes or you had some deductions. When I got a 3k refund for my taxes it didn't mean I didn't pay taxes because you paid about 13k. I just got 3k of that back so I paid 10k. Oh and very very  I guess I am stupid, right? Thats a good question if you think paying 10k in taxes is not paying taxes. Except it ain't true. Your pulling my leg as the saying goes. What? Have you ever filed taxes? You see you can choose to claim deductions before you are taxed or not. I choose to claim no deductions. Therefore I am taxed at the most the government can tax me. Then when tax season rolls around I claim my deductions on my tax form. It then shows how the government "over taxed me". I am refunded from the amount they over taxed. so I paid 13k but I should have only paid 10k so they give me 3k back. I do it this way because its a kind of forced savings. Then I usually spend that money for a vacation or something. so you are out of college now? Well, if true, you are one of the exceptions not the rule when it comes to all those screaming about their taxes and they don't pay any They all get refunds of their taxes plus more usually. Almost half of the eligible tax payers pay no income taxes in this country. But they will be the first to scream about the taxes they don't pay, |
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i can tell you why it will double cause the money won't go to healthcare, it will be robbed by every pet project that comes down the pike! So in therory i'm sure your math was not off by 50% the problem is in your therory you can trust politicians! thats where we part ways sir and ssa is a perfect example of why i beleive this! Wow. The money won't go to healthcare. Let's say that's true. Let's say that's true. But then your tax dollars that pay are not PAID for healthcare. You are saying that the government will say it's healthcare that you pay for, but it won't be JUST healthcare. Here you are actually admitting to the fact that it's a good idea to have universal national healthcare, you just don't trust the government. So... okay. We reject the healthcare because we know it will be just one more plot for the government to ask us for money. So let's not pass that bill. But the government will still need to finance its pet projects and programmes. So we will be taxed more, the amount of healthcare, without having actual healthcare. And since the government will introduce the pet-project tax hidden, as piggy-backing on some other new taxes, they always do that you say, so you will be getting no healthcare, but winding up paying double the healthcare tax anyways, eventually. This is very smart. I mean, I am very smart to see through your reasoning for rejecting the healtcare. It was good reasoning, but unfortunately it could be attached to any tax, so rejecting the healthcare to avoid an evil which will happen anyway, is smart to see that it is a stupid rejection. okay we are getting closer and i completely agree with you but the size of healthcare is an issue....three trillion on the conservative side leaves way too much room for scandal and second i want change in other ways! You say lets get something cause we are getting scrwed anyways i say the change in government needs to come by stopping it! Not to mention i won't get anything but another bill so not very fair for me huh? |
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Why is it okay to take money from others by force? I mean healthcare a right? I won't get nothing but a bill, my healthcare won't change except maybe get worse! Why is it people don't understand working people pay the bills of government and there is no free lunch for us! What happens when we have had enough and refuse to pay your bills anymore! I don't get the thought of freeloading! Do Americans even have pride anymore or are they just all waiting in line with their hand out? Look if you want government healthcare why not just send your money to the government and let them care for you, and allow me to opt out? I tell you why cause you want me to pay for you! That's what this is really about! You want free healthcare for you and double priced heathcare for me right? yeah that's the truth and nobody wants to admit it! Unless you actually beleive the government will make it cheaper! But I can't beleive anyone buys that lie! So which is it? Do you beleive government will make it cheaper or do you want other citizens to pay your share? It makes me sick to hear someone from Calif talk this way. There are 49 other states whose citizens already carry your bill on our taxes. How many bail outs has Calif received from the Fed government anyway? I make good money and have great insurance. I say HC is a right of all humans. Not just Americans but all humans, but then I am not self centered and have humanity. If you have a job and good health quit your bitching. A lot of people have neither. Be grateful for what you do have and get a little humanity in your soul. First off, makes me sick that california sucks off the fed too, I have said it in other posts! Doesn't mean all californians suck off the system and assuming all californians do is bigoted and inaccuarate!!! I make good money as well, have great health insurance and your missing the point! Just because i am against a system that promises healthcare to the poor doesn't mean i am wrong! Oh yes, your rhetoric makes it seem this way but the reality is this sir! The promise won't be kept! Do you get that? I mean really do you get that? Can't i beleive that it's another lie by breuracrats to suck money into and endless pit that will be nothing but dysfunction? Can't you see that it's not about helping the poor? Really think about it! These programs fail because as nobal as your intentions may be sir that history and reality dictate otherwise! It's rhetoric! They don't give a damn about the poor and will only put in place a front and the problem will not be solved! That's the opinion of the realist! Not that we don't want to help, just that we know from years of getting it in the blank with no grease that its all rhetoric and the people won't receive what promised! Not evreything is a right left issue there is a reality to politics! It's a farse and the American people know it! Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! Be grateful for what I have? Really sir? Your damn right i'm grateful, grateful for having free speech! And when politicians and their drones tell me shut up and sit down I say hell no! I'm not bitching about helping others, i'm bitching about a farse that is sold as helping the poor that is really a money grab for a failed idealolgy! Don't you get that communism doesn't work? Does not history show this? Ofcourse it does and nationalized healthcare no matter how you slice it is a form of communism and that's only half the problem! It is also being handed to an overbloated, dysfuntional, failed, pathetic beauracracy! So understand the point when people speak it! Utopia although a great idea, it remains just that, an "idea" and in the real world where i live promises from government to help the poor little women and children is just a ploy on my sympathy to get me in the prone position and ready to spread my cheeks! So yes, your damn right i demand my liberty cause i know it is my god given right and i'm not saying sorry for it! I know with liberty I have a check and balance on government and i'm not willing to trade it for a promise of free healthcare! And giving a crackhead free crack is not humane! Throwing money at problems does not work! IF you want to trully help the poor your gonna have to get your hands dirty! Thinking that throwing five bucks in the hat is a fix is absurd! The programs out there that trully work come with money yes but in addition they have tough love and if your honest about this you will see that! Government does not acomplish that task and it never will because of the size of it! these things must be acomplished at the local level period! Here's the thing too, with a lot of these government level charities and stuff, how do you know where your money is going? How do you know all that money is going where they say it is? You don't. Take the various cancer charities for example, they've been asking for money year after year after year forever to find a "cure", yet where is it? I don't see one do you? Really there are already things in nature that can cure it but they'll never tell you because then they'd lose all their money in donations and treatment costs every year. It's all about the money, and that's what a lot of these charities tend to boil down to. It's one of the biggest scams out there, they pull on the heartstrings, make it seem like they care about this or that, and then pocket the money from the gullible who fall for it while the problems still persist. You want to make change? Do it on a local grassroots level, where you can see where your money is going, where your time is going, where you can feel the difference you are making. That's where real change is gonna come from, from us, not from them. Further, part of the problem we have right now with the economic system is we tend to reward those who do nothing to help themselves, more so than those that actually do. It stifles creativity and hard work, when you can get more from unemployment benefits then you can get from an actual job. They want us reliant on them, don't you see this? Considering that our government does not reward those who do nothing more than those who do stuff. Unemployment is paid into for the very reason that people end up having times of unemployment. It is a safety net for those WHO WORK go figure.  The attitude of some in this country that the poor are poor by their own making is one of our countries greatest disappointments. Many many people go from welfare/foodstamps/etc... to upstanding citizens who give back to this country. There are some on these very boards. It is a very ugly generalization in my opinion. Actually you are incorrect unemployment originally paid no money at all and years later they incorporated handing out checks and the argument then was to keep the economy from from freezing up like in the thirties. It was never proposed as or designed as a safety net for the employee. I hate to say it but you are actually often factually incorrct! You really need to create your own thought! You need to review what you wrote because it didn't make any sense. Unemployment is a safety net for working people. Employers pay into it for that reason. sorry that is incorrect! it is an imposed tax upon employers but it was not designed as a safety net for the employee it's a safety net for the employer! but no use pionting out facts i guess! If it were fact we could discuss it. But it ain't fact or correct for that matter. we never get anywhere....look don't want to argue but unemployment was sold on the principal of economics. the argument was in the thirties when jobs dried up it created a snowball effect and business after business closed down. By handing out checks to the unemployed it would keep local business' a float during hard times. That's why we have unemployment today and yes politicians talk about getting them checks to the people but it is all rhetoric. look up edd and read the history it will explain it all to you. The reasoning behind unemployment checks is about the big picture to keep business going during hard times, this is why the checks have always been small and have grown over time. Sorry but it is fact and if you look it up you will see i am correct! |
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Look i don't know even know where to start! It gets daunting explaining things poeple should learn in high school! First of i said Government imposed healthcare big difference. Second it's about idealology cant you see that? Communism at it's best even under a trusting government fails because it kills the spirit! Read about collectivism and this is what your refering to and it fails because people stop trying....the first pioneers learned this the hard way! history shows this to be correct! Capitolism i agree is not pretty but it works! So i admit i lose on the idealological front and i trully wish that the utopia you desire could come true but i'm a realist and the facts bare it out capitolism works! So it may not be nice but for the greater good people must be forced on their own two feet or they just won't! I accept the above. If hard work is needed, then the best to do is do that hard work. I have no problem with that. I however have problem with your idea that hard work will be avoided if people are helped. The pioneers helped each other. They gave each other meat to eat when one family got famished. They clothed the Injuns who came to get Baptized, those Injuns got beads for it. The pioneers helped each other scale up the mountains, and scale down on the other side. You can't say that helping each other will diminish our strength. In fact, the opposite is true. A society is always stronger than an individual, and the society -- with a local government even -- will protect its members and helpt them. Each member in the US society gives back. The fear is that some members will get something and not give back. And this will lead to thinking "hey, I work, he don't, I get money, he do too." On one hand, this is true ideology; on the other hand, the governemnt -- yes, the BIG goverment -- does not let this happen. If you don't work, you won't need to starve to death, but just about. People on welfare are not living in luxury. They live better than many people in other parts of the world, true, but way below the standard for an Upright US citizen. -------- I admit you were right above, but healthcare is not a part of this "help till he loses the skill and the will to survive". You are already part of a healthcare. The government just wants to make it different. You said originally, that you don't like it, because they want you to pay for them (the lazy ones.) Those "them" are just as hard-working as you, generally; you are already a part of "you vs. them" in your insurance company. The set-up will stay the same, no change will be made in the system of insurance, which you already bought into. I really can't see why on earth you want to avoid a system that is better for everyone, and for those few for whom it would be 10% more to pay, why those are so bitter about helping their fellow Americans to survive, to get better, and get back to work. In fact, you say the system would be good, but it's the "hidden" and unneeded taxes that will destroy the system; well, that is not the fault of the system, and that will happen anyway. It's none of my beezwax what you say and how you will vote. I just say that your reasons for not going for it are either selfish, or they don't make sense. |
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Sorry Dragon but just because you get a refund doesn't mean you don't pay taxes it just means you over paid your taxes or you had some deductions. When I got a 3k refund for my taxes it didn't mean I didn't pay taxes because you paid about 13k. I just got 3k of that back so I paid 10k. Oh and very very I guess I am stupid, right? Thats a good question if you think paying 10k in taxes is not paying taxes. Except it ain't true. Your pulling my leg as the saying goes. What? Have you ever filed taxes? You see you can choose to claim deductions before you are taxed or not. I choose to claim no deductions. Therefore I am taxed at the most the government can tax me. Then when tax season rolls around I claim my deductions on my tax form. It then shows how the government "over taxed me". I am refunded from the amount they over taxed. so I paid 13k but I should have only paid 10k so they give me 3k back. I do it this way because its a kind of forced savings. Then I usually spend that money for a vacation or something. so you are out of college now? Well, if true, you are one of the exceptions not the rule when it comes to all those screaming about their taxes and they don't pay any They all get refunds of their taxes plus more usually. Almost half of the eligible tax payers pay no income taxes in this country. But they will be the first to scream about the taxes they don't pay, there is not a single person in this country not paying taxes! We are taxed at every turn and income taxes are only a percentage of what we pay in taxes! I have never in my life got more back than i paid in so not sure where you live but not the people i know! |
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Why is it okay to take money from others by force? I mean healthcare a right? I won't get nothing but a bill, my healthcare won't change except maybe get worse! Why is it people don't understand working people pay the bills of government and there is no free lunch for us! What happens when we have had enough and refuse to pay your bills anymore! I don't get the thought of freeloading! Do Americans even have pride anymore or are they just all waiting in line with their hand out? Look if you want government healthcare why not just send your money to the government and let them care for you, and allow me to opt out? I tell you why cause you want me to pay for you! That's what this is really about! You want free healthcare for you and double priced heathcare for me right? yeah that's the truth and nobody wants to admit it! Unless you actually beleive the government will make it cheaper! But I can't beleive anyone buys that lie! So which is it? Do you beleive government will make it cheaper or do you want other citizens to pay your share? It makes me sick to hear someone from Calif talk this way. There are 49 other states whose citizens already carry your bill on our taxes. How many bail outs has Calif received from the Fed government anyway? I make good money and have great insurance. I say HC is a right of all humans. Not just Americans but all humans, but then I am not self centered and have humanity. If you have a job and good health quit your bitching. A lot of people have neither. Be grateful for what you do have and get a little humanity in your soul. First off, makes me sick that california sucks off the fed too, I have said it in other posts! Doesn't mean all californians suck off the system and assuming all californians do is bigoted and inaccuarate!!! I make good money as well, have great health insurance and your missing the point! Just because i am against a system that promises healthcare to the poor doesn't mean i am wrong! Oh yes, your rhetoric makes it seem this way but the reality is this sir! The promise won't be kept! Do you get that? I mean really do you get that? Can't i beleive that it's another lie by breuracrats to suck money into and endless pit that will be nothing but dysfunction? Can't you see that it's not about helping the poor? Really think about it! These programs fail because as nobal as your intentions may be sir that history and reality dictate otherwise! It's rhetoric! They don't give a damn about the poor and will only put in place a front and the problem will not be solved! That's the opinion of the realist! Not that we don't want to help, just that we know from years of getting it in the blank with no grease that its all rhetoric and the people won't receive what promised! Not evreything is a right left issue there is a reality to politics! It's a farse and the American people know it! Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! Be grateful for what I have? Really sir? Your damn right i'm grateful, grateful for having free speech! And when politicians and their drones tell me shut up and sit down I say hell no! I'm not bitching about helping others, i'm bitching about a farse that is sold as helping the poor that is really a money grab for a failed idealolgy! Don't you get that communism doesn't work? Does not history show this? Ofcourse it does and nationalized healthcare no matter how you slice it is a form of communism and that's only half the problem! It is also being handed to an overbloated, dysfuntional, failed, pathetic beauracracy! So understand the point when people speak it! Utopia although a great idea, it remains just that, an "idea" and in the real world where i live promises from government to help the poor little women and children is just a ploy on my sympathy to get me in the prone position and ready to spread my cheeks! So yes, your damn right i demand my liberty cause i know it is my god given right and i'm not saying sorry for it! I know with liberty I have a check and balance on government and i'm not willing to trade it for a promise of free healthcare! And giving a crackhead free crack is not humane! Throwing money at problems does not work! IF you want to trully help the poor your gonna have to get your hands dirty! Thinking that throwing five bucks in the hat is a fix is absurd! The programs out there that trully work come with money yes but in addition they have tough love and if your honest about this you will see that! Government does not acomplish that task and it never will because of the size of it! these things must be acomplished at the local level period! Here's the thing too, with a lot of these government level charities and stuff, how do you know where your money is going? How do you know all that money is going where they say it is? You don't. Take the various cancer charities for example, they've been asking for money year after year after year forever to find a "cure", yet where is it? I don't see one do you? Really there are already things in nature that can cure it but they'll never tell you because then they'd lose all their money in donations and treatment costs every year. It's all about the money, and that's what a lot of these charities tend to boil down to. It's one of the biggest scams out there, they pull on the heartstrings, make it seem like they care about this or that, and then pocket the money from the gullible who fall for it while the problems still persist. You want to make change? Do it on a local grassroots level, where you can see where your money is going, where your time is going, where you can feel the difference you are making. That's where real change is gonna come from, from us, not from them. Further, part of the problem we have right now with the economic system is we tend to reward those who do nothing to help themselves, more so than those that actually do. It stifles creativity and hard work, when you can get more from unemployment benefits then you can get from an actual job. They want us reliant on them, don't you see this? Considering that our government does not reward those who do nothing more than those who do stuff. Unemployment is paid into for the very reason that people end up having times of unemployment. It is a safety net for those WHO WORK go figure. The attitude of some in this country that the poor are poor by their own making is one of our countries greatest disappointments. Many many people go from welfare/foodstamps/etc... to upstanding citizens who give back to this country. There are some on these very boards. It is a very ugly generalization in my opinion. Actually you are incorrect unemployment originally paid no money at all and years later they incorporated handing out checks and the argument then was to keep the economy from from freezing up like in the thirties. It was never proposed as or designed as a safety net for the employee. I hate to say it but you are actually often factually incorrct! You really need to create your own thought! You need to review what you wrote because it didn't make any sense. Unemployment is a safety net for working people. Employers pay into it for that reason. sorry that is incorrect! it is an imposed tax upon employers but it was not designed as a safety net for the employee it's a safety net for the employer! but no use pionting out facts i guess! If it were fact we could discuss it. But it ain't fact or correct for that matter. we never get anywhere....look don't want to argue but unemployment was sold on the principal of economics. the argument was in the thirties when jobs dried up it created a snowball effect and business after business closed down. By handing out checks to the unemployed it would keep local business' a float during hard times. That's why we have unemployment today and yes politicians talk about getting them checks to the people but it is all rhetoric. look up edd and read the history it will explain it all to you. The reasoning behind unemployment checks is about the big picture to keep business going during hard times, this is why the checks have always been small and have grown over time. Sorry but it is fact and if you look it up you will see i am correct! Unemployment is a safety net for workers and it paid into by the employers. What you are talking about doesn't change that fact. |
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Sorry Dragon but just because you get a refund doesn't mean you don't pay taxes it just means you over paid your taxes or you had some deductions. When I got a 3k refund for my taxes it didn't mean I didn't pay taxes because you paid about 13k. I just got 3k of that back so I paid 10k. Oh and very very I guess I am stupid, right? Thats a good question if you think paying 10k in taxes is not paying taxes. Except it ain't true. Your pulling my leg as the saying goes. What? Have you ever filed taxes? You see you can choose to claim deductions before you are taxed or not. I choose to claim no deductions. Therefore I am taxed at the most the government can tax me. Then when tax season rolls around I claim my deductions on my tax form. It then shows how the government "over taxed me". I am refunded from the amount they over taxed. so I paid 13k but I should have only paid 10k so they give me 3k back. I do it this way because its a kind of forced savings. Then I usually spend that money for a vacation or something. so you are out of college now? Well, if true, you are one of the exceptions not the rule when it comes to all those screaming about their taxes and they don't pay any They all get refunds of their taxes plus more usually. Almost half of the eligible tax payers pay no income taxes in this country. But they will be the first to scream about the taxes they don't pay, there is not a single person in this country not paying taxes! We are taxed at every turn and income taxes are only a percentage of what we pay in taxes! I have never in my life got more back than i paid in so not sure where you live but not the people i know! Federal taxes are the income taxes. All other taxes for the most part are state taxes. Healthcare will be a federal tax bill. Making those who pay federal taxes and get them refunded back not even paying into healthcare. Making them scream about something that is none of their problem. |
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Look i don't know even know where to start! It gets daunting explaining things poeple should learn in high school! First of i said Government imposed healthcare big difference. Second it's about idealology cant you see that? Communism at it's best even under a trusting government fails because it kills the spirit! Read about collectivism and this is what your refering to and it fails because people stop trying....the first pioneers learned this the hard way! history shows this to be correct! Capitolism i agree is not pretty but it works! So i admit i lose on the idealological front and i trully wish that the utopia you desire could come true but i'm a realist and the facts bare it out capitolism works! So it may not be nice but for the greater good people must be forced on their own two feet or they just won't! I accept the above. If hard work is needed, then the best to do is do that hard work. I have no problem with that. I however have problem with your idea that hard work will be avoided if people are helped. The pioneers helped each other. They gave each other meat to eat when one family got famished. They clothed the Injuns who came to get Baptized, those Injuns got beads for it. The pioneers helped each other scale up the mountains, and scale down on the other side. You can't say that helping each other will diminish our strength. In fact, the opposite is true. A society is always stronger than an individual, and the society -- with a local government even -- will protect its members and helpt them. Each member in the US society gives back. The fear is that some members will get something and not give back. And this will lead to thinking "hey, I work, he don't, I get money, he do too." On one hand, this is true ideology; on the other hand, the governemnt -- yes, the BIG goverment -- does not let this happen. If you don't work, you won't need to starve to death, but just about. People on welfare are not living in luxury. They live better than many people in other parts of the world, true, but way below the standard for an Upright US citizen. -------- I admit you were right above, but healthcare is not a part of this "help till he loses the skill and the will to survive". You are already part of a healthcare. The government just wants to make it different. You said originally, that you don't like it, because they want you to pay for them (the lazy ones.) Those "them" are just as hard-working as you, generally; you are already a part of "you vs. them" in your insurance company. The set-up will stay the same, no change will be made in the system of insurance, which you already bought into. I really can't see why on earth you want to avoid a system that is better for everyone, and for those few for whom it would be 10% more to pay, why those are so bitter about helping their fellow Americans to survive, to get better, and get back to work. In fact, you say the system would be good, but it's the "hidden" and unneeded taxes that will destroy the system; well, that is not the fault of the system, and that will happen anyway. It's none of my beezwax what you say and how you will vote. I just say that your reasons for not going for it are either selfish, or they don't make sense. you see wux we aren't too far off in beleifs and if we can get politicians to reach across the aisle and come up with good ideas maybe we could solve these problems. So i tell you what i will vote for nationaized healthcare but i want checks and balances in place to insure it is ran properly! So how do we get there? Well we have to start by tough love! If democrats want to reach across the aisle and say we are gonna stop the fraud and freeloaders i will reach across the aisle and say lets help! Cause i have no problem helping if it is trully helping but thats not what we have today and be honest you know thats true! The money going out could cover the true need by ten fold! But wux until then i have to stick to reality and vote against another government handout! |
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Sorry Dragon but just because you get a refund doesn't mean you don't pay taxes it just means you over paid your taxes or you had some deductions. When I got a 3k refund for my taxes it didn't mean I didn't pay taxes because you paid about 13k. I just got 3k of that back so I paid 10k. Oh and very very I guess I am stupid, right? Thats a good question if you think paying 10k in taxes is not paying taxes. Except it ain't true. Your pulling my leg as the saying goes. What? Have you ever filed taxes? You see you can choose to claim deductions before you are taxed or not. I choose to claim no deductions. Therefore I am taxed at the most the government can tax me. Then when tax season rolls around I claim my deductions on my tax form. It then shows how the government "over taxed me". I am refunded from the amount they over taxed. so I paid 13k but I should have only paid 10k so they give me 3k back. I do it this way because its a kind of forced savings. Then I usually spend that money for a vacation or something. so you are out of college now? Well, if true, you are one of the exceptions not the rule when it comes to all those screaming about their taxes and they don't pay any They all get refunds of their taxes plus more usually. Almost half of the eligible tax payers pay no income taxes in this country. But they will be the first to scream about the taxes they don't pay, there is not a single person in this country not paying taxes! We are taxed at every turn and income taxes are only a percentage of what we pay in taxes! I have never in my life got more back than i paid in so not sure where you live but not the people i know! Federal taxes are the income taxes. All other taxes for the most part are state taxes. Healthcare will be a federal tax bill. Making those who pay federal taxes and get them refunded back not even paying into healthcare. Making them scream about something that is none of their problem. I dont think you ever concede lol....sorry but i think you got it backwards! The ones paying at tax time are people like me that pay income taxes. i think the ones not paying taxes are on your side of the fence! but there are many federal taxes! many! |
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Why is it okay to take money from others by force? I mean healthcare a right? I won't get nothing but a bill, my healthcare won't change except maybe get worse! Why is it people don't understand working people pay the bills of government and there is no free lunch for us! What happens when we have had enough and refuse to pay your bills anymore! I don't get the thought of freeloading! Do Americans even have pride anymore or are they just all waiting in line with their hand out? Look if you want government healthcare why not just send your money to the government and let them care for you, and allow me to opt out? I tell you why cause you want me to pay for you! That's what this is really about! You want free healthcare for you and double priced heathcare for me right? yeah that's the truth and nobody wants to admit it! Unless you actually beleive the government will make it cheaper! But I can't beleive anyone buys that lie! So which is it? Do you beleive government will make it cheaper or do you want other citizens to pay your share? It makes me sick to hear someone from Calif talk this way. There are 49 other states whose citizens already carry your bill on our taxes. How many bail outs has Calif received from the Fed government anyway? I make good money and have great insurance. I say HC is a right of all humans. Not just Americans but all humans, but then I am not self centered and have humanity. If you have a job and good health quit your bitching. A lot of people have neither. Be grateful for what you do have and get a little humanity in your soul. First off, makes me sick that california sucks off the fed too, I have said it in other posts! Doesn't mean all californians suck off the system and assuming all californians do is bigoted and inaccuarate!!! I make good money as well, have great health insurance and your missing the point! Just because i am against a system that promises healthcare to the poor doesn't mean i am wrong! Oh yes, your rhetoric makes it seem this way but the reality is this sir! The promise won't be kept! Do you get that? I mean really do you get that? Can't i beleive that it's another lie by breuracrats to suck money into and endless pit that will be nothing but dysfunction? Can't you see that it's not about helping the poor? Really think about it! These programs fail because as nobal as your intentions may be sir that history and reality dictate otherwise! It's rhetoric! They don't give a damn about the poor and will only put in place a front and the problem will not be solved! That's the opinion of the realist! Not that we don't want to help, just that we know from years of getting it in the blank with no grease that its all rhetoric and the people won't receive what promised! Not evreything is a right left issue there is a reality to politics! It's a farse and the American people know it! Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! Be grateful for what I have? Really sir? Your damn right i'm grateful, grateful for having free speech! And when politicians and their drones tell me shut up and sit down I say hell no! I'm not bitching about helping others, i'm bitching about a farse that is sold as helping the poor that is really a money grab for a failed idealolgy! Don't you get that communism doesn't work? Does not history show this? Ofcourse it does and nationalized healthcare no matter how you slice it is a form of communism and that's only half the problem! It is also being handed to an overbloated, dysfuntional, failed, pathetic beauracracy! So understand the point when people speak it! Utopia although a great idea, it remains just that, an "idea" and in the real world where i live promises from government to help the poor little women and children is just a ploy on my sympathy to get me in the prone position and ready to spread my cheeks! So yes, your damn right i demand my liberty cause i know it is my god given right and i'm not saying sorry for it! I know with liberty I have a check and balance on government and i'm not willing to trade it for a promise of free healthcare! And giving a crackhead free crack is not humane! Throwing money at problems does not work! IF you want to trully help the poor your gonna have to get your hands dirty! Thinking that throwing five bucks in the hat is a fix is absurd! The programs out there that trully work come with money yes but in addition they have tough love and if your honest about this you will see that! Government does not acomplish that task and it never will because of the size of it! these things must be acomplished at the local level period! Here's the thing too, with a lot of these government level charities and stuff, how do you know where your money is going? How do you know all that money is going where they say it is? You don't. Take the various cancer charities for example, they've been asking for money year after year after year forever to find a "cure", yet where is it? I don't see one do you? Really there are already things in nature that can cure it but they'll never tell you because then they'd lose all their money in donations and treatment costs every year. It's all about the money, and that's what a lot of these charities tend to boil down to. It's one of the biggest scams out there, they pull on the heartstrings, make it seem like they care about this or that, and then pocket the money from the gullible who fall for it while the problems still persist. You want to make change? Do it on a local grassroots level, where you can see where your money is going, where your time is going, where you can feel the difference you are making. That's where real change is gonna come from, from us, not from them. Further, part of the problem we have right now with the economic system is we tend to reward those who do nothing to help themselves, more so than those that actually do. It stifles creativity and hard work, when you can get more from unemployment benefits then you can get from an actual job. They want us reliant on them, don't you see this? Considering that our government does not reward those who do nothing more than those who do stuff. Unemployment is paid into for the very reason that people end up having times of unemployment. It is a safety net for those WHO WORK go figure. The attitude of some in this country that the poor are poor by their own making is one of our countries greatest disappointments. Many many people go from welfare/foodstamps/etc... to upstanding citizens who give back to this country. There are some on these very boards. It is a very ugly generalization in my opinion. Actually you are incorrect unemployment originally paid no money at all and years later they incorporated handing out checks and the argument then was to keep the economy from from freezing up like in the thirties. It was never proposed as or designed as a safety net for the employee. I hate to say it but you are actually often factually incorrct! You really need to create your own thought! You need to review what you wrote because it didn't make any sense. Unemployment is a safety net for working people. Employers pay into it for that reason. sorry that is incorrect! it is an imposed tax upon employers but it was not designed as a safety net for the employee it's a safety net for the employer! but no use pionting out facts i guess! If it were fact we could discuss it. But it ain't fact or correct for that matter. we never get anywhere....look don't want to argue but unemployment was sold on the principal of economics. the argument was in the thirties when jobs dried up it created a snowball effect and business after business closed down. By handing out checks to the unemployed it would keep local business' a float during hard times. That's why we have unemployment today and yes politicians talk about getting them checks to the people but it is all rhetoric. look up edd and read the history it will explain it all to you. The reasoning behind unemployment checks is about the big picture to keep business going during hard times, this is why the checks have always been small and have grown over time. Sorry but it is fact and if you look it up you will see i am correct! Unemployment is a safety net for workers and it paid into by the employers. What you are talking about doesn't change that fact. okay whatever you think but this was your quote and is unfactual and i proved otherwise sorry you just have to accept it dragoness you really need to do your homework! Unemployment is paid into for the very reason that people end up having times of unemployment. It is a safety net for those WHO WORK go figure. |
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I think many are missing the point here! Point one was liberty! How is it right for some citizens to impose their will upon others? If i have no option it is not American! Second is how will government fix it? One person said people against obamacare are uninformed. Really? But they phrased Obamacare as "healthcare reform". Look no one is against healthcare reform, just the current version of it in the form of Obamacare. Healthcare reform can come thru regulation without making it government healthcare! One more point, to refer to democracies or socialist sytems as an example is inaccurate We are a Republic, if you want a different form of government go there! As long as we are a republic i have rights that can not be voted away! You can try but in the end the supreme court has the last say! So when you force me to opt into a system i disagree it is another errosion of my civil liberties! The only argument the so called "INFORMED" person as stated can make is for the better good. To do so i think you need eveidence and supporting facts it is just that! I do not feel the democrats made their case for that at all! On the contrary the republicans have proved the math doesn't add up and this bill infringes on my civil liberties! So agree or disagree if you are informed you need to make your argument make sense! So please if your going to state uninformed know your stuff! we kind of already OPT into a taxed democracy, we all pitch in a share for the 'privilege' of living with the privileges and luxuries offered here compared to other places My tax money already goes to God knows what, as does yours,, there has never been a guarantee of where your tax money will go exactly so why is it a problem all of a sudden that some will be invested in healthcare? |
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I think many are missing the point here! Point one was liberty! How is it right for some citizens to impose their will upon others? If i have no option it is not American! Second is how will government fix it? One person said people against obamacare are uninformed. Really? But they phrased Obamacare as "healthcare reform". Look no one is against healthcare reform, just the current version of it in the form of Obamacare. Healthcare reform can come thru regulation without making it government healthcare! One more point, to refer to democracies or socialist sytems as an example is inaccurate We are a Republic, if you want a different form of government go there! As long as we are a republic i have rights that can not be voted away! You can try but in the end the supreme court has the last say! So when you force me to opt into a system i disagree it is another errosion of my civil liberties! The only argument the so called "INFORMED" person as stated can make is for the better good. To do so i think you need eveidence and supporting facts it is just that! I do not feel the democrats made their case for that at all! On the contrary the republicans have proved the math doesn't add up and this bill infringes on my civil liberties! So agree or disagree if you are informed you need to make your argument make sense! So please if your going to state uninformed know your stuff! we kind of already OPT into a taxed democracy, we all pitch in a share for the 'privilege' of living with the privileges and luxuries offered here compared to other places My tax money already goes to God knows what, as does yours,, there has never been a guarantee of where your tax money will go exactly so why is it a problem all of a sudden that some will be invested in healthcare? The problem is when they want to raise taxes. |
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I think many are missing the point here! Point one was liberty! How is it right for some citizens to impose their will upon others? If i have no option it is not American! Second is how will government fix it? One person said people against obamacare are uninformed. Really? But they phrased Obamacare as "healthcare reform". Look no one is against healthcare reform, just the current version of it in the form of Obamacare. Healthcare reform can come thru regulation without making it government healthcare! One more point, to refer to democracies or socialist sytems as an example is inaccurate We are a Republic, if you want a different form of government go there! As long as we are a republic i have rights that can not be voted away! You can try but in the end the supreme court has the last say! So when you force me to opt into a system i disagree it is another errosion of my civil liberties! The only argument the so called "INFORMED" person as stated can make is for the better good. To do so i think you need eveidence and supporting facts it is just that! I do not feel the democrats made their case for that at all! On the contrary the republicans have proved the math doesn't add up and this bill infringes on my civil liberties! So agree or disagree if you are informed you need to make your argument make sense! So please if your going to state uninformed know your stuff! we kind of already OPT into a taxed democracy, we all pitch in a share for the 'privilege' of living with the privileges and luxuries offered here compared to other places My tax money already goes to God knows what, as does yours,, there has never been a guarantee of where your tax money will go exactly so why is it a problem all of a sudden that some will be invested in healthcare? I agree msharmony but there are two issues regarding this one healthcare will be a 3 plus trillion dollar tax. Yes we already pau for healthcare so it's transfer money really but with governmental control. second i don't agree with previous taxes so just cause i have to pay them doesn't mean i agree with them |
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I think many are missing the point here! Point one was liberty! How is it right for some citizens to impose their will upon others? If i have no option it is not American! Second is how will government fix it? One person said people against obamacare are uninformed. Really? But they phrased Obamacare as "healthcare reform". Look no one is against healthcare reform, just the current version of it in the form of Obamacare. Healthcare reform can come thru regulation without making it government healthcare! One more point, to refer to democracies or socialist sytems as an example is inaccurate We are a Republic, if you want a different form of government go there! As long as we are a republic i have rights that can not be voted away! You can try but in the end the supreme court has the last say! So when you force me to opt into a system i disagree it is another errosion of my civil liberties! The only argument the so called "INFORMED" person as stated can make is for the better good. To do so i think you need eveidence and supporting facts it is just that! I do not feel the democrats made their case for that at all! On the contrary the republicans have proved the math doesn't add up and this bill infringes on my civil liberties! So agree or disagree if you are informed you need to make your argument make sense! So please if your going to state uninformed know your stuff! we kind of already OPT into a taxed democracy, we all pitch in a share for the 'privilege' of living with the privileges and luxuries offered here compared to other places My tax money already goes to God knows what, as does yours,, there has never been a guarantee of where your tax money will go exactly so why is it a problem all of a sudden that some will be invested in healthcare? I agree msharmony but there are two issues regarding this one healthcare will be a 3 plus trillion dollar tax. Yes we already pau for healthcare so it's transfer money really but with governmental control. second i don't agree with previous taxes so just cause i have to pay them doesn't mean i agree with them understandable and thats probably the core issue. How much, at all, of an investment (tax) citizens should expect to pay into keeping their country going......IM willing to pay at least as much as other western countries who have a higher standard of living and/or qulity of life |
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I think many are missing the point here! Point one was liberty! How is it right for some citizens to impose their will upon others? If i have no option it is not American! Second is how will government fix it? One person said people against obamacare are uninformed. Really? But they phrased Obamacare as "healthcare reform". Look no one is against healthcare reform, just the current version of it in the form of Obamacare. Healthcare reform can come thru regulation without making it government healthcare! One more point, to refer to democracies or socialist sytems as an example is inaccurate We are a Republic, if you want a different form of government go there! As long as we are a republic i have rights that can not be voted away! You can try but in the end the supreme court has the last say! So when you force me to opt into a system i disagree it is another errosion of my civil liberties! The only argument the so called "INFORMED" person as stated can make is for the better good. To do so i think you need eveidence and supporting facts it is just that! I do not feel the democrats made their case for that at all! On the contrary the republicans have proved the math doesn't add up and this bill infringes on my civil liberties! So agree or disagree if you are informed you need to make your argument make sense! So please if your going to state uninformed know your stuff! we kind of already OPT into a taxed democracy, we all pitch in a share for the 'privilege' of living with the privileges and luxuries offered here compared to other places My tax money already goes to God knows what, as does yours,, there has never been a guarantee of where your tax money will go exactly so why is it a problem all of a sudden that some will be invested in healthcare? I agree msharmony but there are two issues regarding this one healthcare will be a 3 plus trillion dollar tax. Yes we already pau for healthcare so it's transfer money really but with governmental control. second i don't agree with previous taxes so just cause i have to pay them doesn't mean i agree with them understandable and thats probably the core issue. How much, at all, of an investment (tax) citizens should expect to pay into keeping their country going......IM willing to pay at least as much as other western countries who have a higher standard of living and/or qulity of life |
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