Of course you can see Jesus in other people. That's what Jesus taught, "I and the father are one", and "ye are gods", meaning that we are all god.

He was teaching pantheism.

"What you do to the least of your brothers you do unto me." Why? Because we are all one with God. In other words, god is within all of us, and Jesus was no exception.

That's pantheism and Eastern Mysticism all the way. That's what Jesus was saying. It's crystal clear to me.

In fact, I agree with what you say here:



And "he" has. The "he" being a generic abstract metaphor of course.

What you are really searching for is your "True Self", that is "god" and you are it. Tat t'vam asi.

This is what the Buddhists discovered, and it's also what Jesus taught. There is not difference between the wisdom of the Buddha and the wisdom of Jesus. They are one in the same.

In that sense I'll agree with you.

But if you want to change that and try to alienate God and make God into some sort of egotistical entity in his own right who needs to be obeyed and appeased, then I'd just say that from my perspective you've totally missed the point of the teachings of Jesus.

I have no problem with Jesus, but I sure as heck have a lot of problems with "Christianity" and the conclusions that many Christians come to.

Yes if you wish to take things out of context. But here is another verse that will clearify a little. You have to take the entire bible to fully understand what is said. The old and new testament.

Psalm 82:6

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

So cleary Jesus wasn't talking about Pantheism

Cause notice it says CHILDREN of the most high. That would state seperate beings. I have explained this many of times and I shall explain it again. My dad and I are one if we work together, do for each other what we would do for ourself, ect. Jesus didn't say "The father and I are the same being" or anything of that nature. Jesus stated the father and I are one.

That doesn't imply separate beings at all. Where do you get that idea?

Especially if you're not going to allow these so-called "children" to grow up to become separate adult Gods in their own right, which I'm sure you would never condone, because that would then demand that there are infinitely many Gods.

Therefore this idea that we are all the "children" of God, must necessarily be an abstract pantheistic metaphor and thus it doesn't conflict with pantheism at all.

We are all "children" of "God" in the sense that we are all a part of the primal spirit of life. We emerge from spirit, we are spirit, and we can only return to spirit, because there is nothing else to be.

So it's pantheism all the way, and your reference to Psalms doesn't change a thing.

In order for us to be totally separate entities as you suggest, and to still be thought of as the "children" of God, that would require that we are all bound to grow up to become individual Gods ourselves.

So your objection here to the pantheistic view using Psalms breaks down. Your attempt at making us concrete separate individuals in a spiritual sense can't hold up. It necessarily must be pantheistic. That's the only thing that makes any sense.

So all I would say here is that you're trying to take an abstract concept like spirit and make it physically concrete. But that would destroy the very essence of spirit. Not to mention implying the existence of infinitely many "Adult Gods" since the kind of "children" that you're speaking of would necessarily ultimately grow up to become what their parents are. i.e. Gods!

Exodus 20:3

3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Who's to say we don't grow up to be adult gods? Christianity doesn't teach us there is only one GOD. It teaches us that there is only one FATHER and no one is greater.

You're going to end up with another Greek Mythology if you're not careful.

Zeus was the "God of Gods" too.

He was also appeased by blood sacrifices.

What a coincidence!

I have no desire to learn or put my attention towards fairy tells.

Well, you truly should. Because if you study the many mythologies that had existed in the Mediterranean region, you'll quickly discover that much of the Bible is just a retelling of those same fables using only slightly different twists. Even including the story of Jesus himself.

This is why many people reject the story of Jesus as an entirely made up story.

I personally believe that there is some truth it it. In other words, I believe that a man actually lived, rejected the teachings of the Torah, tried to replace them with teachings of love and compassion, and was indeed crucified for blaspheme. I believe that he was most likely a pantheistic-thinking Jew (which was not at all uncommon in those days), as well as having been trained in Mahayana Buddhism as a Bodhisattva.

Put all of this together and you can piece together the most likely true story of the man named Jesus.

You're completely refusal to learn about these other mythologies and spiritual traditions prevent you from seeing the truth. Instead you put on blinders and refuse to look outside of the single biblical mythology and therefore you cannot see how it came to be.

So studying other fables and myths can be quite enlightening.

In fact, you should also be aware that even many Christian Clergy are aware of the similar fables of "saviors" along the lines of Jesus. What they do is claim that Satan knew of the coming of Jesus and created those stories to fool men into thinking that the story of Jesus was then just a reproduction of those stories.

So that's their excuse. They use Satan as their scapegoat to get around having to face the reality that these kinds of myths were commonplace.

So yes, studying myths and other spiritual traditions can help quite a bit.

I would have never realized that Jesus could have been a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva until I had studying the history of Buddhism in quite some depth. I actually took a full college course in the history of Buddhism before I began to realize that the timing, philosophy, and behaviors of Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva matched up perfectly with the philosophy, and behavior attributed to Jesus.

Well, of course, it does require some rejection of precise verbatim verses in the New Testament. However, once a person realizes that the New Testament is just hearsay rumors and no longer views it as the "Verbatim word of God" then it's easy to accept that many of the things that are being claimed in the New Testament are simply false rumors and innuendo.

But you've got to take the blinders off before you can see this stuff. As long as you refuse to consider anything other than the idea that the Bible is the verbatim word of God, then clearly that's all you'll ever see, because you refuse to look at the bigger picture of reality.

You got to take the blinders off if you want to see.

Where in the Bible does it say anything about Jesus being in "other people?" Where does it say that his physical self left but he never did?

When Jesus left he said, "I go to prepare a place for you."

Then, according to the Bible, he left, and was raised up into a cloud to the heavens.

He left, body and spirit.

So I don't think you can get all analytical or metaphysical or symbolic like that if you are going to preach that the Bible as it is, is truth.

When you say "you can see Jesus in other people" what you may actually be trying to say is that God is in us all. I understand that concept, but I am serious about it. It is not just empty words. I actually believe it.

I don't call it "Jesus" either. I call it the divine all encompassing spirit of God that lives and has its being IN ME. In short, I am God in part. I am that which has manifested from God. Not a separate "child" of God. I am part of God and God is also in me and all around me.

That is pantheism.

God is in us, very true.

1 Corinthians 3:16
16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Pantheism is that there is no "god" in those exact terms. Pantheism is that we are all one with one another and everything in the world, we ourselves are god, god is not a separate being. So no, Jesus was not teaching pantheism or anything of such. Nor does the bible totally support pantheism.

Your blatant misunderstanding of Pantheism is not impressive.

Clearly you need for God to have an ego and be a totally separate being from you. That's the only way your religion will work. God needs to be a totally separate ego from your (i.e. a totally independent individual) In other words, you truly need God to be Zeus-like in form and nature.

But there is nothing in Corinthians that suggests this. On the contrary the verse you've posted from Corinthians is totally compatible with the pantheistic view of God.

Your misunderstanding of pantheism is not our concern.

Eastern Mysticism holds that "god" or better yet, "spirit" is indeed a mystery. This is precisely why it is called "Mysticism".

You're demanding that God is a hard physical object. A totally separate Zeus-like MALE fatherly God who is watching everything from some heavenly kingdom. He has plans, wants, desires, needs, failings, jealous, and all sorts of human characteristic.

In fact, the only thing that makes him "God" is the idea that he's so powerful that no one can challenge his "authority". So his "authority" is truly the only thing that makes him "God".

In fact, that was the whole idea behind Satan. Satan was supposedly an angel who lusted to overtake God and win the position of ultimate "authority".

All of that is a very "Physical" picture of God truly. This is just imagining that God is nothing more than a human being who has ultimate power authority and even knowledge. Supposedly this God will be able to explain everything to you in terms that you can understand, even his very own essence evidently. This God itself must have a logical explanation for its own existence, otherwise it would be "lacking" knowledge of it's very own being! Can't have that!

None of that is going to work.

So the Eastern Mystics have taken a different approach and allow that God is truly beyond logic, and thus beyond our comprehension.

Therefore, if you try to reduce Pantheism to some sort of "logical" concept that you can describe in so many words, then you have totally missed the point.

Pantheism cannot be described logically. It's like the Tao, if you think you can describe it you are mistaken, because it is beyond logical comprehension.

The Zeus-like Male-chauvinistic God that you're trying to support must be logical, otherwise it would not be able to know the answers to everything because that would require being logical.

So your objections to pantheism only show that you don't fully understand the mystical quality of the pantheistic view.

First off, just want to state that the term "god" when refering to our heavenly father is a generic term as to discuss with people such as you and not to offend. We are all god's, know ye not that ye are gods and children of the most high? And yes God has a physical form. We are made in the image of God.

Genesis 1:27

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

One cannot both be separate from God and also have God in him.

I am seperate from my mother, but without her I wouldnt be here, as I am and much of what I am and have become stems from HER being a part of me.

You can't?

Here's an experiment you can try.

Take a glass. Fill it with water. Is the water separate from the glass? If so you should be able to pour the water out.

If I don't want God in me I can ask him to leave.

We see this all the time with demonic exorcism. The demon enters in and the preist or pastor or whoever tells it to leave. It does.

Because those two are seperate. If God was in the possesed person there would be no room for the demon because demons hate God and cannot stand his presence.

This alone proves otherwise

Well, a person would need to believe that they can be possessed by evil demons who hate God first.

Where do these evil demons who hate God get their POWER from?

The only way for this idea to work is if there exists two "Gods" of equal power. A demonic God and a supposedly righteous God.

Then we also need to believe in the existence of all these utterly stupid entities that supposedly hate righteousness. That very concept right there makes no sense to me.

Besides, the Christians are out to have their God condemn righteous people like Jeanniebean who merely don't believe in their views.

What kind of a supposedly "righteous" God would be going around condemning perfectly righteous people for no good reason?

That would be a demonic God right there!

According to my personal concept of "GOD" if that leaves you, then you would cease to exist.

So it is obvious that your concept of God is not the same as mine, therefore it would be pointless to have a discussion of this type.

Why would I cease to exist? If I pour God out? In the this instance the water simply leaves the glass.

If I leave my body then I am either dead or having and out of body expierience. I never cease to exist.

I'm afraid I don't understand your logic.
I understand abra's. And I respect his vewpoint. He can believe what he wants!

Well you see abra (This is how I see it) You have the devil he wants things his way NOT God's way. So that's what he does.
He hates what God does and God is riteous so he must hate it.

It's been said the devil has no choice but to hate it. It's in his DNA.

Now when he left heaven the angels that agreed with him followed him. They follow what he believes. And therefor do his bidding. They also hate what he hates.

That's the way I see it. Now do I expect YOU to bow down to me and believe what I say? That's up to you.

I just think people should understand as much as they can.

I don't believe in santa but I like understand the story.

Abra speaks to you from your level of understanding.



I don't find your analogy of the water and the glass to be applicable in this case.

But consider that both the glass and the water are made up of atoms. Take the atoms out of both and they will both cease to exist.



This would depend on how you define yourself. What are you? What is God? How are you and God separate?