Not shoving anything in anyone's face. All you have to do is laugh and move on. No hurt feelings. I dictate nothing of what people should obey. If you do not feel that our one and only god has given us certain laws to abide by, then that is your choice. Again, not shoving anything in anyone's face. Just as you continuously state you do not believe the scriptures are from a god, I will continuously state that I believe they are. You state they are not as it were a fact, so I will state they are as a fact. Why must you try to make other's look bad and make it look like they are pushing their beliefs on you when they are doing the same thing you are doing?

You can kid yourself all you want, but you're not kidding anyone else. You're the only one who continually preaches that God demands "obedience" from us, and it's only you who attempts to dictate to everyone else precisely what it is that we must "obey".

No one else here does that kind of thing.

Not kidding anyone. I do not dictate to everyone else what we must obey. I've said repeatedly that if someone has a different understanding of the scriptures, I am more then welcome to discuss with them. All I spread is what our god has told us to do and not do.

When you state that you do not believe in the Christian faith, you then state that it's just foolish stories, you then state that your faith is the right one, you then state that your spiritual views are the absolute truth. I do nothing that you don't do my friend, so why point fingers trying to make the other look bad?

Cowboy states...

"Not kidding anyone. I do not dictate to everyone else what we must obey. I've said repeatedly that if someone has a different understanding of the scriptures, I am more then welcome to discuss with them. All I spread is what our god has told us to do and not do. "

beg to differ...

'our god' in the case of I am...

has NOT told me the same thing as you claim 'our god' has 'told us to do and not do'.

that is fully a function of YOUR vision of GOD.

you are not discussing anything...

You are, in fact, telling people like me that we are destined to a 'non existance' by not believing in what you do...

i.e. you are most definately a bible quoting, died in the wool christian...

No discussion in this... discussion requires also listening.

Oh but I beg to differ.

I said and I quote.


Notice "different understanding of the scriptures". The scriptures is all the information we have from any god. What makes you think God only speaks to YOU? Why would he only instruct you of certain things and not the entire world? And why would this stuff not be written down to confirm what you're thinking?

Well to begin with, several people have already told you that we do not consider the "scriptures" that you reference to be the "Word of God", yet you continually speak to us as though you never heard or comprehended our views on that.

As far as those scriptures are concerned, I have already discussed the scriptures themselves with you on several occasions and we have never agreed on what they say in any case.

Moreover, why should you expect to get a consensus on the meanings of these obscure and vague scriptures? That's something that even the Christians themselves have never been able to do.

Not long after Catholicism was born Protestantism quickly arose and has itself been fragmenting into a myriad of disagreeing sects ever since.

If you going to seek a consensus on scriptures try it with other Christians of various sects and see how well you do there first.



I believe the Hebrew scriptures are the made-up rumors of man, and they do not exhibit very much wisdom. Yes this is true.

You believe that they are the verbatim Word of God evidently.

So fine, why then do you then continue to refer to these scriptures as a source of "God's Word" that I need to "obey" when I've already told you that I believe they are nothing more than the hearsay rumors of men?

That makes absolutely no sense to me.

I've already told you that if you want to believe that for yourself more power to you!

You say, "The scriptures is all the information we have from any god."

I have already told you that I don't accept that the Hebrew scriptures came from any god.

I guess I just need to copy and paste that in to all my posts. Too bad Mingle doesn't provide signature lines I'd put there like so:


~~~~~~~~
I don't accept that the Hebrew scriptures came from any god.

Where have I ever said such a stupid thing as 'god only speaks to me'?
The world contains many individuals... God walks with each of them...
This stuff is written down... You simply read it not... Expecting instead that the way others have told you it is... it is... and you (By the majority of your posts) have no intention of 'understanding' anyone elses 'difering' opinion... Which is why you argue your point here and not on the Christian threads.

most christians would ignore you.

Just because you don't accept it as such doesn't mean it's not my friend. I can think that the world is flat all I want and not think it's round, that doesn't change the fact that it is round. God isn't something that is only real in a person's mind. God isn't a fantasy, he isn't a dream in that exact sense. God is real as you and I. You open your arms for him and welcome him in, he'll lift you to the stars and beyond.

Ok, if God doesn't speak directly to you. You obviously don't get your knowledge from any bible. Where exactly do you get your spiritual knowledge then?

God walks with me as he does with you...

When I need it he clears my path of pebles and stones.

Gods wisdom exists in all things...

Only men think that they must read such wisdom from books made of ink, paper and bindings.

God can not be bound.

There are many books in existence packed full of wisdom and spiritual knowledge.

Just because you accept that it is doesn't make is so either my friend.

You say, "You open your arms for him and welcome him in, he'll lift you to the stars and beyond."

Is that another carrot on your stick?

You've already offered eternal life in paradise.

You've already threatened spiritual death if I don't comply.

And now you're trying to offer some sort of instantaneous reward of being lifted to the stars and beyond.

I don't see Christians in general being lifted to the stars and beyond. It's just not happening. In fact, many of them seem to be quite frustrated with life and are often asking for prayer requests in a state of deep desperation because their own praying doesn't seem to work very well.

So your carrot this time is not very impressive. You seem to be running low on carrots and scraping the bottom of the barrel now.

Truly.

Also, if people can believe that those ancient Hebrews could be inspired by a God, then what's so hard about believing that people like Buddha, Confucius, Lao Tzu, or even a modern person like Deepak Chopra could not be inspired by God to speak on his behalf?

Just because the Hebrews claimed to be "God's chosen people" doesn't make it so. Why would God chose such buffoons? Even according to their own stories the Hebrews themselves weren't very righteous or devout toward their very own God.

Look at how disobedient the Hebrews were after they had been freed from Egypt. They were totally uncivilized buffoons even according to their very own stories. Why would God have chosen such idiots as his "Chosen people". I think the people in India would have been a better choice.

Clearly the Hebrew religion is just another cultural religion. No different what other cultures did. The Mayans had their religion, the Aztecs had theirs, the Egyptians certainly had theirs, the Vikings had theirs, the American Indians had theirs, and the list goes and on and on.

Why single out the Hebrews as being the only religion that was inspired by god?

There's absolutely not sane reason to do that.

yes true, there are many different versions of the holy bible.

No carrot, not trying to entice you to believe. I've offered nothing nor have I made any threats. I merely pass a message on from our god. And sure it happens. When you open your mind and eyes you'll find that it truly makes no difference weather you drive a junk car or a brand new hybrid. Objects mean nothing in this world. If you've got what you need to survive, you have everything you'll ever need. No need for big shiny objects. As soon as you see this, you'll see you have the world at the tips of your fingers.

Who are you to judge who is an idiot or not?

Not trying to entice me to believe?

You're truly funny Cowboy.

What did you just say in the very quote above? "As soon as you see this, you'll see you have the world at the tips of your fingers."

You sound like your preaching the Law of Attraction now.

Or maybe Buddhism.

Perhaps you're confused about your religion? Where does Christianity promise people "The world at their fingertips?"

Besides, why do you keep judging my relationship with God?

That's a quite personal assumption to make about someone you know nothing about.

What makes you think I don't already have the world at my fingertips?

Especially if you're putting this in a context where it has nothing to do with material wealth.

What would make you think that I don't already have the world at my fingertips in a spiritual sense?

That's a HUGE assumption for you to make about someone you don't even know.

I didn't call anyone an idiot. You're trying to make trouble where there is none.

I was merely speaking about being rational. If on a planet of humans every culture has a religious tradition it would not be rational to dismiss all but one culture's religious stories. Especially when all religious stories contain questionable entities like wing-angels, or demonic demons, etc.

Speaking of judging, who are YOU to judge the spiritual relationship that other people may or may not have with their creator?

You keep speaking to me as though I need to do something to get in good with God. That's the epitome of arrogance on your part.

I accept your claim to have a relationship with God.

You should return the favor.

You mentioned before that you'd like to keep these conversations civil, but you seldom discuss religion. Instead you continually make accusations that I need to do something in order to gain some special powers, such as having the world at my fingertips.

Let's try to stick to religion and not be using the forums as a pulpit to PREACH to people what you think they might personally be in need of!

Ok?

“Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!”

(Romans 11:33)


I really think it is very complex, how one defines FATE.
IN the end, I know through trial and error and my (god given?) logic the PROBABLE fate in the physical world when that fate is meant as the ending to certain choices or groups of choices.


I know, for instance, If I stand in the highway long enough, Im going to MOST LIKELY be hit,,,,that will be my fate if I choose one path

I know that if I put my hand on a hot stove, it will be burned,,,that will by my fate if I choose another path


we are given some degree of knowledge to put into place our OWN consequences, so in the physical realm of consequences we have the POWER to control them or at least to do what is most likely to CAUSE them


we also however, have a collective responsibility which is harder to pinpoint and direct because we cannot control others choices nor know what they will do, in the sense of the FATE of a community or a country or a people, we have much less INDIVIDUAL control, we are much more like a participant than a master


so, perhaps, in the grand spiritual scheme , we are also just participants to what is Gods will for us, but in the physical world we are master to our own choices in that we must take ownership of them


I dont worry or think about it too much, because I think its not for me to do so,,,I just believe strongly in actions and consequences in the WORLDLY sense, so I try to live life setting up those WORLDLY consequences I am most admiring of by taking the ACTIONS to set them up,,,