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| Topic: If you break Gods Commandment did you sin? | |
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Peter Pan Wrote: You're kidding yourself if you don't realize that this is the Central Theme of Christianity. (your continued claim is also bolded above) That's absolutely correct Peter. If you believe otherwise then you're the one who's in some sort of denial. What do you think the Christians mean when they speak of Jesus being their "Savior"?  They proselytize this continually. You want proof? Just open your eyes and ears! It's all around you! You aren't disagreeing with me Peter. You're disagreeing with the Christians! Besides, like I say, if Jesus was the only begotten son of God, and it wasn't God's intent or plan to have Jesus crucified for some reason, then please explain to me why you think God could not have protected his only begotten son from a fate that would not SERVE HIS PURPOSE? Now it's my turn to make a prediction. I predict that you'll ignore these questions or hand-wave them off with superficial answers that don't even begin to address them. So here, see if you can answer theses? 1. Was it God's plan to have Jesus crucified? If so, then what was God's reason for having Jesus crucified? 2. If you believe that it wasn't God's plan to have Jesus crucified, then please explain why God could not even protect his only begotten son from the evils of men? These should be really easy questions for you since you seem to already believe you have the answers. You, ab, spend a lot of your time refuting and TRYING to stigmatize the WORD of God and those who believe. You, instead, do the proselytizing; spreading a distorted view hoping to destroy the church and those who believe the Word, while recruiting others to abandon their faith in the God of the bible. You are on a mission to destroy. Shame on you.  of course, abra is on a mission, as each is... i can see his mission is to destroy what create disunity and bogotry on planet earth, the GREAT BEAST OF GREATER THAN, that the self declared believer espouse so fervently as "good", and of "god"... I FIND NO SHAME IN BEING ACCUSED OF TRYING TO DESTROY WHAT CREATES ALL UNPEACE. and i dare say, abra fights for the RIGHT THINGS, and for the RIGHT REASONS... as indeed, THE MOTIVE OF THE BEING, DETERMINE THE OUTCOME IN ALL HUMAN HAPPENINGS. fight on dear abra, as religions of ignorance, shall indeed be absorbed by intelligence, of NO GREATER THAN. just one cent |
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Still all opinionated speculations. Even you calling God our father dumb is an opinionated speculation. Dumb, intelligent, ect are all variant to each person, as in so and so may think this or that is intelligent by this other guy sees it as stupid. So please try again and this time please use some form of facts. The bible is still nevertheless a form of factual evidence weather you wish to accept it or not. It is a first person diary of their experience with the lord. Now weather you wish to give it credit or not is YOUR opinion, nothing factual about it at all. So please give us some FACTUAL evidence that the bible is hearsay rumours and are not true. So please, try again. Try again? What am I trying for? I don't care whether you accept my proof or not. I'm just telling you that I have sufficient proof for myself that the Bible is necessarily a lie. Keep in mind here Cowboy that you are the one who is trying to SELL the Bible as the "Word of God". Not me. I'm just telling you why I don't believe your claims. I don't care whether YOU BELIEVE the in the Bible or not. Go right ahead and believe it! Be my GUEST!  I'm just telling you why I don't believe it's the word of any God. That's what I was saying, there WAS NO PROOF. That was all merely personal perspectives. Nothing factual IN ANYWAY or anything that could even be considered factual. Again, weather you wish to believe it's true or not, the bible itself is a collection of books gathered together from that area through time of personal experiences with Jesus and before. So weather you wish to accept it that as factual or not is mute, for nevertheless it is still some form of evidence. Which there is none for your case, just purely personal perspective and what YOU wish to be true. |
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Sure there is. The Bible claims that if I don't believe it I am rejecting God. Clearly that's not true. Yet another unfounded claim? Is there evidence of this claim? Shall I make a prediction again???  Sorry Peter, you're not paying attention CeriseRose already posted the evidence for this: Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. (John 14:6) And supposedly you cannot get to Jesus unless you believe in a whole bunch of other crap too. I already tried, but Cowboy says no. It's not good enough to just say that you accept Jesus, you have to jump through a whole lot of hoops and basically agree that the entire BIBLE IS TRUE! This is in fact, the truth of Christianity. You can't accept that Jesus without swallowing the whole shebang. As I have always said, "First they nailed him to the pole, then they nailed him to the Torah". The very doctrine that he clearly disagreed with and dismissed as the "Law of the Scribes and Pharisees" whom he proclaimed are hypocrites! |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Tue 11/16/10 07:42 PM
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That's what I was saying, there WAS NO PROOF. That was all merely personal perspectives. Nothing factual IN ANYWAY or anything that could even be considered factual. Again, weather you wish to believe it's true or not, the bible itself is a collection of books gathered together from that area through time of personal experiences with Jesus and before. So weather you wish to accept it that as factual or not is mute, for nevertheless it is still some form of evidence. Which there is none for your case, just purely personal perspective and what YOU wish to be true. It's PROOF for me, because I KNOW that I don't reject my creator. What more PROOF could I possibly need? What you seem to be totally missing here is that in order to truly reject your creator by CHOICE, you'd have to do it knowingly! You couldn't do it by mistake, or by accident, or by any other unintentional means, because then it wouldn't have been a CHOICE! And remember, the whole thing is that it's supposed to be a CHOICE! I absolutely, positively do not knowing-fully and willfully CHOOSE to reject my creator. Therefore I cannot possibly be doing that. It's simply not possible. I would need to be condemned via pure innocence! And NOT by my CHOICE. If you can't comprehend this simple little thing then it's truly no wonder that you believe in the bible. You obviously have no ability to see how absurd it truly is. |
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Sure there is. The Bible claims that if I don't believe it I am rejecting God. Clearly that's not true. Yet another unfounded claim? Is there evidence of this claim? Shall I make a prediction again??? Sorry Peter, you're not paying attention CeriseRose already posted the evidence for this: Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. (John 14:6) And supposedly you cannot get to Jesus unless you believe in a whole bunch of other crap too. I already tried, but Cowboy says no. It's not good enough to just say that you accept Jesus, you have to jump through a whole lot of hoops and basically agree that the entire BIBLE IS TRUE! This is in fact, the truth of Christianity. You can't accept that Jesus without swallowing the whole shebang. As I have always said, "First they nailed him to the pole, then they nailed him to the Torah". The very doctrine that he clearly disagreed with and dismissed as the "Law of the Scribes and Pharisees" whom he proclaimed are hypocrites! Only a delusional fool would believe the utterly absurd "evidence" you presented to support your claim of "The Bible claims that if I don't believe it I am rejecting God". But hey, I'm not judging you, I'm just pointing out the obvious fallacies that everyone else is already aware of. Sorry, but yet another EPIC FAIL!!!! yeah, yeah, I predict you will somehow claim that nonsence constitutes "proof".  yet another example of your lack of knowledge... |
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Only a delusional fool would believe the utterly absurd "evidence" you presented to support your claim of "The Bible claims that if I don't believe it I am rejecting God". So now you're calling the vast majority of Christians delusional fools.  Well, I'm not going argue with you on that one. 
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Peter Pan,
I can only say that I truly wish all "Christians" were like you. Then their probably wouldn't be any such thing as proselytizing or evangelizing. And Christianity wouldn't be such a divisive and bigoted religion. Evidently you have no problem recognizing that there are many paths to God and you don't take the words Jesus seriously. Jesus supposedly says that no one comes to the father but through him and you claim that only a delusion fool would believe Jesus.  |
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Only a delusional fool would believe the utterly absurd "evidence" you presented to support your claim of "The Bible claims that if I don't believe it I am rejecting God". So now you're calling the vast majority of Christians delusional fools. Well, I'm not going argue with you on that one. You show your dishonesty yet AGAIN Abracadabra. You can't even quote me without lying about what I said and posted. Face it, I'll catch all of your lies, strawmen, delusions, utter absurdities, misquotes, deflections, denials, paraphrases and hypocrisies. And for the record, read my original quote, I'll bold it so the delusional people (you) will understand the true meaning. Only a delusional fool would believe the utterly absurd "evidence" you presented to support your claim of "The Bible claims that if I don't believe it I am rejecting God". But hey, I'm not judging you, I'm just pointing out the obvious fallacies that everyone else is already aware of. As a funny side, I'd love to see you debate with certain other poster here (name starts with "f"). It would be hillarious to see the utter nonsence that would be posted. Unless of course, said poster is actually you, then it'll just be plain sad.
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You show your dishonesty yet AGAIN Abracadabra. You can't even quote me without lying about what I said and posted. You haven't shown anything but your own inability to comprehend the simplest of concepts. According to the Bible Jesus said, "no one comes to the Father, but through Me." And it goes on, and on, and on about precisely what is required to get through Jesus. Believing that he is the "Only Begotten Son" of The God of Abraham is one criteria. Therefore this is an automatic demand that you believe the entire Old Testament as well as the entire New Testament. Thus if you don't believe in the Bible you are rejecting Jesus, and since Jesus claims that he is the only way to God, then you can't get to God either if you don't believe in the Bible. Therefore I have indeed established my claim that "The Bible claims that if I don't believe in it I am rejecting God". It actually says this in the Old Testament as well, even without referencing Jesus, but we don't even need to go into that since the demands of Jesus in the New Testament suffice to nail it. Because Peter, it makes no sense to say that you have "Come to Jesus" whilst denying the Bible. The Bible is the only place where these claims are being made. So I suggest you give your doctor a call and tell him that you are having serious problems comprehending the simplest concepts anymore. Best wishes on your recovery! I hope it's nothing serious. |
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That's what I was saying, there WAS NO PROOF. That was all merely personal perspectives. Nothing factual IN ANYWAY or anything that could even be considered factual. Again, weather you wish to believe it's true or not, the bible itself is a collection of books gathered together from that area through time of personal experiences with Jesus and before. So weather you wish to accept it that as factual or not is mute, for nevertheless it is still some form of evidence. Which there is none for your case, just purely personal perspective and what YOU wish to be true. It's PROOF for me, because I KNOW that I don't reject my creator. What more PROOF could I possibly need? What you seem to be totally missing here is that in order to truly reject your creator by CHOICE, you'd have to do it knowingly! You couldn't do it by mistake, or by accident, or by any other unintentional means, because then it wouldn't have been a CHOICE! And remember, the whole thing is that it's supposed to be a CHOICE! I absolutely, positively do not knowing-fully and willfully CHOOSE to reject my creator. Therefore I cannot possibly be doing that. It's simply not possible. I would need to be condemned via pure innocence! And NOT by my CHOICE. If you can't comprehend this simple little thing then it's truly no wonder that you believe in the bible. You obviously have no ability to see how absurd it truly is. hmmm knowingly you say.... Would that insist of knowing of something? Would that then come from having been told and or informed of such? hmmm, guess that makes you a candidate for knowingly rejecting our father and his word. If you can't comprehend this simple little thing, then it's truly no wonder that you do not believe in the bible and comprehend it. You obviously have no ability to see how absurd your logic truly is. |
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Edited by
Peter_Pan69
on
Wed 11/17/10 03:50 AM
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You show your dishonesty yet AGAIN Abracadabra. You can't even quote me without lying about what I said and posted. You haven't shown anything but your own inability to comprehend the simplest of concepts. According to the Bible Jesus said, "no one comes to the Father, but through Me." Simplest of concepts?!?!?!? "Every knee shall bow, every tounge will confess" is the "simplest" you can get to explain that one. But obviously, the simplest of concepts is way beyond your grasp being only 5 foot tall. And it goes on, and on, and on about precisely what is required to get through Jesus. Believing that he is the "Only Begotten Son" of The God of Abraham is one criteria. Therefore this is an automatic demand that you believe the entire Old Testament as well as the entire New Testament. Thus if you don't believe in the Bible you are rejecting Jesus, and since Jesus claims that he is the only way to God, then you can't get to God either if you don't believe in the Bible. Therefore I have indeed established my claim that "The Bible claims that if I don't believe in it I am rejecting God". It actually says this in the Old Testament as well, even without referencing Jesus, but we don't even need to go into that since the demands of Jesus in the New Testament suffice to nail it. Therefore? Thus? Do you even know what logic looks like? Do you even read what you write? It makes zero sense, it's "utterly absurd". You should have used a parachute whilst jumping to sooo many conclusions. Brain damage is quite evident. Don't worry, I won't ask for evidence of your claim being supported by the OT, you'll only expose your lies even more than you already have. Because Peter, it makes no sense to say that you have "Come to Jesus" whilst denying the Bible. The Bible is the only place where these claims are being made. So I suggest you give your doctor a call and tell him that you are having serious problems comprehending the simplest concepts anymore. Best wishes on your recovery! I hope it's nothing serious. Such lame inuendos, how sad... I have no choice but to conclude that you're probrably senile, sorry but the facts speak for themselves. "Never argue with a little man who thinks he is big as he'll do everything to keep that delusion alive in his own mind"
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 this subject really would take more time and space than allowed. lets change a few names as time has done for us. old testament to first testament to first promise.this is our learning period.WHEN I WAS A CHILD I UNDERSTOOD AS A CHILD.........then we ha new testament, second promise .. school is over. NOW THAT I AM A MAN I HAVE PUT AWAY CHILDISH THINGS....now regressing, adulteress sin is a transgression of the things the Lord wants from us.there was plenty of sex going on but if/as we learn to control the worldly lust we can overcome this hurdle. look at Adam,Solomon<David Saul/Paul. do you think the will be punished for thier sins. they learned and acknowledged and were forgiven as we here today will be forgiven for any of the worldly lust that gets us off track of our only goal, to walk in the footsteps
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God is the center of the story, when one understand that, the other lessons become clearer
Jesus is the way to God, puts JESUS as the decision maker of who will be 'worthy' before his Father,, it doesnt put man in a position to make any decision about Jesus If I have a child that someone adopts and that child believes all their life that their adoptive parents are their biological, it does not mean that they will never meet their biological parents, the PARENTS still have the option to reach out to that child, as Jesus has the option to do, even with the non believer |
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"Every knee shall bow, every tounge will confess" That's it right there! Absolutely! Thank you Peter, you just continually support my claims all the while that you claim to be rejecting them, it's just amazing how you do that.  The Jesus I know is a Mahayana Buddhist. He taught what everyone needs to know in order to reach nirvana. Therefore the only way to God is through what he taught. Not through him! The Jesus that the authors of the New Testament created is an egotistical monster used to support the idea of the Jealous egotistical God of the Old Testament. The very doctrine that Jesus himself renounced. Those evil scribes first incited a mob to have Jesus nailed to a pole, and then they wrote their dastardly New Testament to nail Jesus to the Torah as the "son" of the God of Abraham. A doctrine which Jesus himself obviously rejected. So as a Buddhist Jesus was a true saint. As the son of the God of Abraham he's nothing but an egotistical pig just looking for obedient slaves to worship him. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So you can keep your biblical Jesus. I'll take the Buddha Jesus. I'll chose to love over hate any day. If your Jesus hates love, then so be it. I'll renounce him till the end of eternity. He's a demon far worse than Satan. Far worse. There is no love in Christianity. None whatsoever. It's a hateful bigoted religion that worships the ego in the name of Jesus "The Christ". It's precisely the opposite of the very moral values that even the Gospels themselves attribute to Jesus. There's no way that Jesus could have been the egotistical pig that these authors claim. Jesus himself would need to be the greatest hypocrite that ever lived. How can you not see that? He had to have been a Mahayana Buddhist. That's the only sane explanation that truly honors the moral values that he taught. Jesus had no lust to be the King of Kings or Lord of Lords, or have every knee bow to him. That's absurd and totally out of character of what he actually taught. It's the precise opposite of the moral values that he taught. |
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Edited by
Peter_Pan69
on
Wed 11/17/10 10:26 AM
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"Every knee shall bow, every tounge will confess" That's it right there! Absolutely! Thank you Peter, you just continually support my claims all the while that you claim to be rejecting them, it's just amazing how you do that. The Jesus I know is a Mahayana Buddhist. He taught what everyone needs to know in order to reach nirvana. Therefore the only way to God is through what he taught. Not through him! The Jesus that the authors of the New Testament created is an egotistical monster used to support the idea of the Jealous egotistical God of the Old Testament. The very doctrine that Jesus himself renounced. Those evil scribes first incited a mob to have Jesus nailed to a pole, and then they wrote their dastardly New Testament to nail Jesus to the Torah as the "son" of the God of Abraham. A doctrine which Jesus himself obviously rejected. So as a Buddhist Jesus was a true saint. As the son of the God of Abraham he's nothing but an egotistical pig just looking for obedient slaves to worship him. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So you can keep your biblical Jesus. I'll take the Buddha Jesus. I'll chose to love over hate any day. If your Jesus hates love, then so be it. I'll renounce him till the end of eternity. He's a demon far worse than Satan. Far worse. There is no love in Christianity. None whatsoever. It's a hateful bigoted religion that worships the ego in the name of Jesus "The Christ". It's precisely the opposite of the very moral values that even the Gospels themselves attribute to Jesus. There's no way that Jesus could have been the egotistical pig that these authors claim. Jesus himself would need to be the greatest hypocrite that ever lived. How can you not see that? He had to have been a Mahayana Buddhist. That's the only sane explanation that truly honors the moral values that he taught. Jesus had no lust to be the King of Kings or Lord of Lords, or have every knee bow to him. That's absurd and totally out of character of what he actually taught. It's the precise opposite of the moral values that he taught. WOW!, what a stretch... I thought you said that you don't make any claims??? I suppose you'll deny saying that too... It must be divine to wake every morning with a clean slate. No guilt over lying... No guilt over being a hypocrite... No knowledge of being schooled by those younger than you... Simple concepts are definetly beyond your grasp, but the Roman Moronic ones have been permanently ingrained into your brain matter. Since you admit to making claims, how about some evidence to support them? *prediction* Fluff will flow and denials will be in abundance. |
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God is the center of the story, when one understand that, the other lessons become clearer Jesus is the way to God, puts JESUS as the decision maker of who will be 'worthy' before his Father,, it doesnt put man in a position to make any decision about Jesus If I have a child that someone adopts and that child believes all their life that their adoptive parents are their biological, it does not mean that they will never meet their biological parents, the PARENTS still have the option to reach out to that child, as Jesus has the option to do, even with the non believer I understand what you are saying MsHarmony. I just don't believe the New Testament's claims. I don't believe that an all-wise God would send his son to Earth with such an important message to mankind, and not even have him write it down penned in his own words verbatim. The very idea that an all-wise God would leave this message up to a bunch of highly questionable secondhand hearsay gossip is simply an ideal I cannot accept. I simply do not believe that an all-wise God would do something like that. Therefore, these "gospels" are extremely suspicious to me. I just see no reason at all to believe them. And the Old Testament is even worse. If it is the will of an all-wise God that everyone believe that Jesus is his son, then why would he create a situation in which that information is so highly questionable second-hand hearsay gossip? As far as I'm concerned this is more than enough reason to highly suspect that these writings are the works of men, and not the inspired word of any God. What was wrong with Jesus that he couldn't write this up himself? |
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it is my responsibility to listen correctly , not Gods responsibility to speak down to the many levels of those trying to listen,,, Let me get this straight: It is my responsibility to understand someone, who wants to convince me of something that is important for him that I be convinced of, and not important to me? Before I understand God, how can I understand His words if He says it to me in a way that is incomprehensible, or at best ambiguous to me? In order to understand Him, first I have to understand Him? Gimme a break. |
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Peter Pan wrote: It must be divine to wake every morning with a clean slate. It is. And you can experience such divinity too as soon as you learn to be honest. |
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it is my responsibility to listen correctly , not Gods responsibility to speak down to the many levels of those trying to listen,,, Let me get this straight: It is my responsibility to understand someone, who wants to convince me of something that is important for him that I be convinced of, and not important to me? Before I understand God, how can I understand His words if He says it to me in a way that is incomprehensible, or at best ambiguous to me? In order to understand Him, first I have to understand Him? Gimme a break. why is it important to God for you to understand him,, what GAIN does God get from convincing you? God is the center of the story, not us,,,, it is I who has everything to gain from listening and he who is gracious enough to bless me with the opportunity to gain it |
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"and replenish the earth, " "fill the earth," are the two versions someone quoted. These are not at all in contradiction with the meaning that babies should be put in the soil.
Earth was spelled with a lower case e each time, meaning soil. Both "replenish" and "fill" are consistent with fertilizing. Without replenishing, arable land becomes desert; without other forms of replenishing, filling the earth with corpses of new babies is a very effective way of fertilizing the earth. (The soil). About the cultural stuff: Man thought the Earth was flat or whatever. I accept it that for a writer of this part of the Bible the difference between Earth and earth was undescernible. But God knew the Earth was round. So He ought to have dictated that part with a capital E for Earth. But He did not. He makes no mistakes. So He meant, to put your (our) babies in the soil. Why can't you guys see this? |
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