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| Topic: If you break Gods Commandment did you sin? | |
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I thought you were into Budhism or Hinduism. Are you sure you are not creating bad karma for yourself, being so critical? Where is your inner peace? You seem to be a restless soul when it comes to religion. You seem to be jumping to quite a few conclusions about someone you've never met. I checked Buddhism/Taoism on my profile simply because those are the closest spiritual philosophies that reflect how I personally view reality. However, technically I'm neither a Buddhist nor a Taoist. In fact, I don't affiliate myself with any organized or officially recognized religion. I only appear to be a "restless soul" to Christians who read these forums because I make them feel restless.  In truth Cerise (or should I call you Rose?), I really have no problem with what people personally believe. I have a problem with people who proselytize the religion to a point where it basically becomes political. If you think for one second that Christianity isn't a source of social and international political bigotry you seriously need to think again. What did you just post a few minutes ago? CeriseRose wrote: We serve a Mighty God!!! Who serves a Mighty God? And what am I? A heathen?  Simply because I refuse to accept the Bible as the "Word of God" and the idea that Jesus was his only begotten son who was crucified to pay for our sins? In all honesty Cerise I truly feel that the biblical picture of "god" is truly sick. Seriously sick. I'm not trying to mock the Bible or make fun of it or anything. I'm just telling the honest truth. I seriously see it as being utterly sick. Now I realize that you think it was somehow GREAT that poor little innocent Jesus would be so loving as to give his life to pay for your sins so you can be accepted into heaven. However, from my point of view such a scenario is utterly insane. WHO was Jesus? What Jesus GOD? Let's pretend for a moment that he was God. That should be easy for you. Jesus is God! He not just some innocent "son" of God who is a separate soul in his own right who decided to do this for our sake so that God can forgive us. No. He is GOD! Ok, so you have a creator of a universe who supposedly does not like violence and he commands people to be nice and not to kill, cheat, lie, steal, or do anything horrible. So what does he do? He devises a plan to come to Earth and have himself nailed to a pole to pay for our sins? WHAT?  How in the world is nailing our creator to a pole going to pay for our sins? You're going to tell me that I should believe an old story that claims that our creator basically said to us, "Look, if I come down there and you break my commandments by nailing me to a pole and killing me, I'll forgive you of your sins" What sense does that even make?  Why would a God who supposedly stands for everything righteous and just require us to violate his commandment and nail him to a pole before he can forgive us? This has got to be the most insane religious myth ever created by mankind. Do I believe that a sane infinitely intelligent and wise God would devise such a plan? No, sorry, but there's NO WAY I would ever believe that an infinitely wise being would ever create or devise such an utterly ignorant plan for the salvation of his creation. If you want to believe that God is "intelligent", then surely you can see where God himself would need to be shaking his head in agreement with me at this very moment. All I'm saying is that I don't believe that God is that stupid. If I'm bound for hell for taking that view, then so be it. Any God who would send people to eternal damnation for not believing that he's an absolute idiot, would only prove that he most certainly is. The fable cannot be true. Our creator cannot be an idiot. Atheism would be a far better reality. Any God who can't think of a better way to offer mankind salvation than having himself nailed to a pole is either a complete idiot, or an extremely limited God who simply doesn't have any better options available. Either case violates what God is supposed to be - (i.e. unlimited, all-powerful, and all-wise) You can't have your cake and eat it too. An all-wise all-powerful God doesn't go around having himself nailed to poles. That would be an extremely unwise, and LIMITED solution to any problem. The Bible is nonsense. If there was any truth to some guy named Jesus, he was most likely a mortal man who tried to teach better morals than had been taught in the Torah. He was crucified for his views, and rumors sprung up that he was a demigod and rose from the dead, etc. Now do you truly believe that anyone deserves to go to hell for not believing such an insane story? Yet that's precisely what you MUST BELIEVE if you insist on believing these fables. The insane story is quoted above. It was clearly written by an egotisical, self-centered, delusional bigot. So why do you keep repeating it ad-naseum? So yet again, you make a false claim. Just once I'd like to see you evidence that the story you convey holds any merit. Start with this blatant falsehood: "Now do you truly believe that anyone deserves to go to hell for not believing such an insane story? Yet that's precisely what you MUST BELIEVE if you insist on believing these fables. " And of course I will make the prediction that zero evidence will be forthcoming but you will provide some obscure reference and/or claim that you didn't make any claim at all, instead blaming the Bible for said claim.  P.S. read Romans 2 before insisting people "MUST BELIEVE" your insane hearsay rumors. You also might want to read up on hell and the 3 different words that were mistranslated. (and yes, even with this info, my prediction still stands) So you found a passage in the Bible that appears to contradict the main gospels. All you keep doing is confirming the ambiguity of the cannon. How is there any contradiction there? Romans 2 is telling us not to judge one another. Judging isn't our job or place, that is left to our father whom will judge all of us. The entire new testament teaches us not to judge. Yes the old testament told us to judge. But that is because we're judged by the word. In the old testament times the word was just that, the word of our father. Then the word was made flesh eg., Jesus. So now we no longer judge one another for the word can do it on it's own. Again, where is the contradiction? Less i'm missing some point here, if that's the case please explain in more detail please. |
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I thought you were into Budhism or Hinduism. Are you sure you are not creating bad karma for yourself, being so critical? Where is your inner peace? You seem to be a restless soul when it comes to religion. You seem to be jumping to quite a few conclusions about someone you've never met. I checked Buddhism/Taoism on my profile simply because those are the closest spiritual philosophies that reflect how I personally view reality. However, technically I'm neither a Buddhist nor a Taoist. In fact, I don't affiliate myself with any organized or officially recognized religion. I only appear to be a "restless soul" to Christians who read these forums because I make them feel restless. In truth Cerise (or should I call you Rose?), I really have no problem with what people personally believe. I have a problem with people who proselytize the religion to a point where it basically becomes political. If you think for one second that Christianity isn't a source of social and international political bigotry you seriously need to think again. What did you just post a few minutes ago? CeriseRose wrote: We serve a Mighty God!!! Who serves a Mighty God? And what am I? A heathen? Simply because I refuse to accept the Bible as the "Word of God" and the idea that Jesus was his only begotten son who was crucified to pay for our sins? In all honesty Cerise I truly feel that the biblical picture of "god" is truly sick. Seriously sick. I'm not trying to mock the Bible or make fun of it or anything. I'm just telling the honest truth. I seriously see it as being utterly sick. Now I realize that you think it was somehow GREAT that poor little innocent Jesus would be so loving as to give his life to pay for your sins so you can be accepted into heaven. However, from my point of view such a scenario is utterly insane. WHO was Jesus? What Jesus GOD? Let's pretend for a moment that he was God. That should be easy for you. Jesus is God! He not just some innocent "son" of God who is a separate soul in his own right who decided to do this for our sake so that God can forgive us. No. He is GOD! Ok, so you have a creator of a universe who supposedly does not like violence and he commands people to be nice and not to kill, cheat, lie, steal, or do anything horrible. So what does he do? He devises a plan to come to Earth and have himself nailed to a pole to pay for our sins? WHAT? How in the world is nailing our creator to a pole going to pay for our sins? You're going to tell me that I should believe an old story that claims that our creator basically said to us, "Look, if I come down there and you break my commandments by nailing me to a pole and killing me, I'll forgive you of your sins" What sense does that even make? Why would a God who supposedly stands for everything righteous and just require us to violate his commandment and nail him to a pole before he can forgive us? This has got to be the most insane religious myth ever created by mankind. Do I believe that a sane infinitely intelligent and wise God would devise such a plan? No, sorry, but there's NO WAY I would ever believe that an infinitely wise being would ever create or devise such an utterly ignorant plan for the salvation of his creation. If you want to believe that God is "intelligent", then surely you can see where God himself would need to be shaking his head in agreement with me at this very moment. All I'm saying is that I don't believe that God is that stupid. If I'm bound for hell for taking that view, then so be it. Any God who would send people to eternal damnation for not believing that he's an absolute idiot, would only prove that he most certainly is. The fable cannot be true. Our creator cannot be an idiot. Atheism would be a far better reality. Any God who can't think of a better way to offer mankind salvation than having himself nailed to a pole is either a complete idiot, or an extremely limited God who simply doesn't have any better options available. Either case violates what God is supposed to be - (i.e. unlimited, all-powerful, and all-wise) You can't have your cake and eat it too. An all-wise all-powerful God doesn't go around having himself nailed to poles. That would be an extremely unwise, and LIMITED solution to any problem. The Bible is nonsense. If there was any truth to some guy named Jesus, he was most likely a mortal man who tried to teach better morals than had been taught in the Torah. He was crucified for his views, and rumors sprung up that he was a demigod and rose from the dead, etc. Now do you truly believe that anyone deserves to go to hell for not believing such an insane story? Yet that's precisely what you MUST BELIEVE if you insist on believing these fables. The insane story is quoted above. It was clearly written by an egotisical, self-centered, delusional bigot. So why do you keep repeating it ad-naseum? So yet again, you make a false claim. Just once I'd like to see you evidence that the story you convey holds any merit. Start with this blatant falsehood: "Now do you truly believe that anyone deserves to go to hell for not believing such an insane story? Yet that's precisely what you MUST BELIEVE if you insist on believing these fables. " And of course I will make the prediction that zero evidence will be forthcoming but you will provide some obscure reference and/or claim that you didn't make any claim at all, instead blaming the Bible for said claim. P.S. read Romans 2 before insisting people "MUST BELIEVE" your insane hearsay rumors. You also might want to read up on hell and the 3 different words that were mistranslated. (and yes, even with this info, my prediction still stands) So you found a passage in the Bible that appears to contradict the main gospels. All you keep doing is confirming the ambiguity of the cannon. How is there any contradiction there? Romans 2 is telling us not to judge one another. Judging isn't our job or place, that is left to our father whom will judge all of us. The entire new testament teaches us not to judge. Yes the old testament told us to judge. But that is because we're judged by the word. In the old testament times the word was just that, the word of our father. Then the word was made flesh eg., Jesus. So now we no longer judge one another for the word can do it on it's own. Again, where is the contradiction? Less i'm missing some point here, if that's the case please explain in more detail please. Romans 2 is stating that God doesn't care if you heard "The Law" or not. All that matters is that a person be good and follow the morals that are instilled in everyone's heart. The parable of the good Sumaritan relays the same setiment. |
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I thought you were into Budhism or Hinduism. Are you sure you are not creating bad karma for yourself, being so critical? Where is your inner peace? You seem to be a restless soul when it comes to religion. You seem to be jumping to quite a few conclusions about someone you've never met. I checked Buddhism/Taoism on my profile simply because those are the closest spiritual philosophies that reflect how I personally view reality. However, technically I'm neither a Buddhist nor a Taoist. In fact, I don't affiliate myself with any organized or officially recognized religion. I only appear to be a "restless soul" to Christians who read these forums because I make them feel restless. In truth Cerise (or should I call you Rose?), I really have no problem with what people personally believe. I have a problem with people who proselytize the religion to a point where it basically becomes political. If you think for one second that Christianity isn't a source of social and international political bigotry you seriously need to think again. What did you just post a few minutes ago? CeriseRose wrote: We serve a Mighty God!!! Who serves a Mighty God? And what am I? A heathen? Simply because I refuse to accept the Bible as the "Word of God" and the idea that Jesus was his only begotten son who was crucified to pay for our sins? In all honesty Cerise I truly feel that the biblical picture of "god" is truly sick. Seriously sick. I'm not trying to mock the Bible or make fun of it or anything. I'm just telling the honest truth. I seriously see it as being utterly sick. Now I realize that you think it was somehow GREAT that poor little innocent Jesus would be so loving as to give his life to pay for your sins so you can be accepted into heaven. However, from my point of view such a scenario is utterly insane. WHO was Jesus? What Jesus GOD? Let's pretend for a moment that he was God. That should be easy for you. Jesus is God! He not just some innocent "son" of God who is a separate soul in his own right who decided to do this for our sake so that God can forgive us. No. He is GOD! Ok, so you have a creator of a universe who supposedly does not like violence and he commands people to be nice and not to kill, cheat, lie, steal, or do anything horrible. So what does he do? He devises a plan to come to Earth and have himself nailed to a pole to pay for our sins? WHAT? How in the world is nailing our creator to a pole going to pay for our sins? You're going to tell me that I should believe an old story that claims that our creator basically said to us, "Look, if I come down there and you break my commandments by nailing me to a pole and killing me, I'll forgive you of your sins" What sense does that even make? Why would a God who supposedly stands for everything righteous and just require us to violate his commandment and nail him to a pole before he can forgive us? This has got to be the most insane religious myth ever created by mankind. Do I believe that a sane infinitely intelligent and wise God would devise such a plan? No, sorry, but there's NO WAY I would ever believe that an infinitely wise being would ever create or devise such an utterly ignorant plan for the salvation of his creation. If you want to believe that God is "intelligent", then surely you can see where God himself would need to be shaking his head in agreement with me at this very moment. All I'm saying is that I don't believe that God is that stupid. If I'm bound for hell for taking that view, then so be it. Any God who would send people to eternal damnation for not believing that he's an absolute idiot, would only prove that he most certainly is. The fable cannot be true. Our creator cannot be an idiot. Atheism would be a far better reality. Any God who can't think of a better way to offer mankind salvation than having himself nailed to a pole is either a complete idiot, or an extremely limited God who simply doesn't have any better options available. Either case violates what God is supposed to be - (i.e. unlimited, all-powerful, and all-wise) You can't have your cake and eat it too. An all-wise all-powerful God doesn't go around having himself nailed to poles. That would be an extremely unwise, and LIMITED solution to any problem. The Bible is nonsense. If there was any truth to some guy named Jesus, he was most likely a mortal man who tried to teach better morals than had been taught in the Torah. He was crucified for his views, and rumors sprung up that he was a demigod and rose from the dead, etc. Now do you truly believe that anyone deserves to go to hell for not believing such an insane story? Yet that's precisely what you MUST BELIEVE if you insist on believing these fables. The insane story is quoted above. It was clearly written by an egotisical, self-centered, delusional bigot. So why do you keep repeating it ad-naseum? So yet again, you make a false claim. Just once I'd like to see you evidence that the story you convey holds any merit. Start with this blatant falsehood: "Now do you truly believe that anyone deserves to go to hell for not believing such an insane story? Yet that's precisely what you MUST BELIEVE if you insist on believing these fables. " And of course I will make the prediction that zero evidence will be forthcoming but you will provide some obscure reference and/or claim that you didn't make any claim at all, instead blaming the Bible for said claim. P.S. read Romans 2 before insisting people "MUST BELIEVE" your insane hearsay rumors. You also might want to read up on hell and the 3 different words that were mistranslated. (and yes, even with this info, my prediction still stands) So you found a passage in the Bible that appears to contradict the main gospels. All you keep doing is confirming the ambiguity of the cannon. How is there any contradiction there? Romans 2 is telling us not to judge one another. Judging isn't our job or place, that is left to our father whom will judge all of us. The entire new testament teaches us not to judge. Yes the old testament told us to judge. But that is because we're judged by the word. In the old testament times the word was just that, the word of our father. Then the word was made flesh eg., Jesus. So now we no longer judge one another for the word can do it on it's own. Again, where is the contradiction? Less i'm missing some point here, if that's the case please explain in more detail please. Romans 2 is stating that God doesn't care if you heard "The Law" or not. All that matters is that a person be good and follow the morals that are instilled in everyone's heart. The parable of the good Sumaritan relays the same setiment. Maybe we read different bibles. Here's the start of Romans 2 Romans 2 1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? |
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I thought you were into Budhism or Hinduism. Are you sure you are not creating bad karma for yourself, being so critical? Where is your inner peace? You seem to be a restless soul when it comes to religion. You seem to be jumping to quite a few conclusions about someone you've never met. I checked Buddhism/Taoism on my profile simply because those are the closest spiritual philosophies that reflect how I personally view reality. However, technically I'm neither a Buddhist nor a Taoist. In fact, I don't affiliate myself with any organized or officially recognized religion. I only appear to be a "restless soul" to Christians who read these forums because I make them feel restless. In truth Cerise (or should I call you Rose?), I really have no problem with what people personally believe. I have a problem with people who proselytize the religion to a point where it basically becomes political. If you think for one second that Christianity isn't a source of social and international political bigotry you seriously need to think again. What did you just post a few minutes ago? CeriseRose wrote: We serve a Mighty God!!! Who serves a Mighty God? And what am I? A heathen? Simply because I refuse to accept the Bible as the "Word of God" and the idea that Jesus was his only begotten son who was crucified to pay for our sins? In all honesty Cerise I truly feel that the biblical picture of "god" is truly sick. Seriously sick. I'm not trying to mock the Bible or make fun of it or anything. I'm just telling the honest truth. I seriously see it as being utterly sick. Now I realize that you think it was somehow GREAT that poor little innocent Jesus would be so loving as to give his life to pay for your sins so you can be accepted into heaven. However, from my point of view such a scenario is utterly insane. WHO was Jesus? What Jesus GOD? Let's pretend for a moment that he was God. That should be easy for you. Jesus is God! He not just some innocent "son" of God who is a separate soul in his own right who decided to do this for our sake so that God can forgive us. No. He is GOD! Ok, so you have a creator of a universe who supposedly does not like violence and he commands people to be nice and not to kill, cheat, lie, steal, or do anything horrible. So what does he do? He devises a plan to come to Earth and have himself nailed to a pole to pay for our sins? WHAT? How in the world is nailing our creator to a pole going to pay for our sins? You're going to tell me that I should believe an old story that claims that our creator basically said to us, "Look, if I come down there and you break my commandments by nailing me to a pole and killing me, I'll forgive you of your sins" What sense does that even make? Why would a God who supposedly stands for everything righteous and just require us to violate his commandment and nail him to a pole before he can forgive us? This has got to be the most insane religious myth ever created by mankind. Do I believe that a sane infinitely intelligent and wise God would devise such a plan? No, sorry, but there's NO WAY I would ever believe that an infinitely wise being would ever create or devise such an utterly ignorant plan for the salvation of his creation. If you want to believe that God is "intelligent", then surely you can see where God himself would need to be shaking his head in agreement with me at this very moment. All I'm saying is that I don't believe that God is that stupid. If I'm bound for hell for taking that view, then so be it. Any God who would send people to eternal damnation for not believing that he's an absolute idiot, would only prove that he most certainly is. The fable cannot be true. Our creator cannot be an idiot. Atheism would be a far better reality. Any God who can't think of a better way to offer mankind salvation than having himself nailed to a pole is either a complete idiot, or an extremely limited God who simply doesn't have any better options available. Either case violates what God is supposed to be - (i.e. unlimited, all-powerful, and all-wise) You can't have your cake and eat it too. An all-wise all-powerful God doesn't go around having himself nailed to poles. That would be an extremely unwise, and LIMITED solution to any problem. The Bible is nonsense. If there was any truth to some guy named Jesus, he was most likely a mortal man who tried to teach better morals than had been taught in the Torah. He was crucified for his views, and rumors sprung up that he was a demigod and rose from the dead, etc. Now do you truly believe that anyone deserves to go to hell for not believing such an insane story? Yet that's precisely what you MUST BELIEVE if you insist on believing these fables. The insane story is quoted above. It was clearly written by an egotisical, self-centered, delusional bigot. So why do you keep repeating it ad-naseum? So yet again, you make a false claim. Just once I'd like to see you evidence that the story you convey holds any merit. Start with this blatant falsehood: "Now do you truly believe that anyone deserves to go to hell for not believing such an insane story? Yet that's precisely what you MUST BELIEVE if you insist on believing these fables. " And of course I will make the prediction that zero evidence will be forthcoming but you will provide some obscure reference and/or claim that you didn't make any claim at all, instead blaming the Bible for said claim. P.S. read Romans 2 before insisting people "MUST BELIEVE" your insane hearsay rumors. You also might want to read up on hell and the 3 different words that were mistranslated. (and yes, even with this info, my prediction still stands) So you found a passage in the Bible that appears to contradict the main gospels. All you keep doing is confirming the ambiguity of the cannon. How is there any contradiction there? Romans 2 is telling us not to judge one another. Judging isn't our job or place, that is left to our father whom will judge all of us. The entire new testament teaches us not to judge. Yes the old testament told us to judge. But that is because we're judged by the word. In the old testament times the word was just that, the word of our father. Then the word was made flesh eg., Jesus. So now we no longer judge one another for the word can do it on it's own. Again, where is the contradiction? Less i'm missing some point here, if that's the case please explain in more detail please. Romans 2 is stating that God doesn't care if you heard "The Law" or not. All that matters is that a person be good and follow the morals that are instilled in everyone's heart. The parable of the good Sumaritan relays the same setiment. Maybe we read different bibles. Here's the start of Romans 2 Romans 2 1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Romans 2:8 says quite the opposite of what you're claiming. 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, |
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I thought you were into Budhism or Hinduism. Are you sure you are not creating bad karma for yourself, being so critical? Where is your inner peace? You seem to be a restless soul when it comes to religion. You seem to be jumping to quite a few conclusions about someone you've never met. I checked Buddhism/Taoism on my profile simply because those are the closest spiritual philosophies that reflect how I personally view reality. However, technically I'm neither a Buddhist nor a Taoist. In fact, I don't affiliate myself with any organized or officially recognized religion. I only appear to be a "restless soul" to Christians who read these forums because I make them feel restless. In truth Cerise (or should I call you Rose?), I really have no problem with what people personally believe. I have a problem with people who proselytize the religion to a point where it basically becomes political. If you think for one second that Christianity isn't a source of social and international political bigotry you seriously need to think again. What did you just post a few minutes ago? CeriseRose wrote: We serve a Mighty God!!! Who serves a Mighty God? And what am I? A heathen? Simply because I refuse to accept the Bible as the "Word of God" and the idea that Jesus was his only begotten son who was crucified to pay for our sins? In all honesty Cerise I truly feel that the biblical picture of "god" is truly sick. Seriously sick. I'm not trying to mock the Bible or make fun of it or anything. I'm just telling the honest truth. I seriously see it as being utterly sick. Now I realize that you think it was somehow GREAT that poor little innocent Jesus would be so loving as to give his life to pay for your sins so you can be accepted into heaven. However, from my point of view such a scenario is utterly insane. WHO was Jesus? What Jesus GOD? Let's pretend for a moment that he was God. That should be easy for you. Jesus is God! He not just some innocent "son" of God who is a separate soul in his own right who decided to do this for our sake so that God can forgive us. No. He is GOD! Ok, so you have a creator of a universe who supposedly does not like violence and he commands people to be nice and not to kill, cheat, lie, steal, or do anything horrible. So what does he do? He devises a plan to come to Earth and have himself nailed to a pole to pay for our sins? WHAT? How in the world is nailing our creator to a pole going to pay for our sins? You're going to tell me that I should believe an old story that claims that our creator basically said to us, "Look, if I come down there and you break my commandments by nailing me to a pole and killing me, I'll forgive you of your sins" What sense does that even make? Why would a God who supposedly stands for everything righteous and just require us to violate his commandment and nail him to a pole before he can forgive us? This has got to be the most insane religious myth ever created by mankind. Do I believe that a sane infinitely intelligent and wise God would devise such a plan? No, sorry, but there's NO WAY I would ever believe that an infinitely wise being would ever create or devise such an utterly ignorant plan for the salvation of his creation. If you want to believe that God is "intelligent", then surely you can see where God himself would need to be shaking his head in agreement with me at this very moment. All I'm saying is that I don't believe that God is that stupid. If I'm bound for hell for taking that view, then so be it. Any God who would send people to eternal damnation for not believing that he's an absolute idiot, would only prove that he most certainly is. The fable cannot be true. Our creator cannot be an idiot. Atheism would be a far better reality. Any God who can't think of a better way to offer mankind salvation than having himself nailed to a pole is either a complete idiot, or an extremely limited God who simply doesn't have any better options available. Either case violates what God is supposed to be - (i.e. unlimited, all-powerful, and all-wise) You can't have your cake and eat it too. An all-wise all-powerful God doesn't go around having himself nailed to poles. That would be an extremely unwise, and LIMITED solution to any problem. The Bible is nonsense. If there was any truth to some guy named Jesus, he was most likely a mortal man who tried to teach better morals than had been taught in the Torah. He was crucified for his views, and rumors sprung up that he was a demigod and rose from the dead, etc. Now do you truly believe that anyone deserves to go to hell for not believing such an insane story? Yet that's precisely what you MUST BELIEVE if you insist on believing these fables. The insane story is quoted above. It was clearly written by an egotisical, self-centered, delusional bigot. So why do you keep repeating it ad-naseum? So yet again, you make a false claim. Just once I'd like to see you evidence that the story you convey holds any merit. Start with this blatant falsehood: "Now do you truly believe that anyone deserves to go to hell for not believing such an insane story? Yet that's precisely what you MUST BELIEVE if you insist on believing these fables. " And of course I will make the prediction that zero evidence will be forthcoming but you will provide some obscure reference and/or claim that you didn't make any claim at all, instead blaming the Bible for said claim. P.S. read Romans 2 before insisting people "MUST BELIEVE" your insane hearsay rumors. You also might want to read up on hell and the 3 different words that were mistranslated. (and yes, even with this info, my prediction still stands) So you found a passage in the Bible that appears to contradict the main gospels. All you keep doing is confirming the ambiguity of the cannon. How is there any contradiction there? Romans 2 is telling us not to judge one another. Judging isn't our job or place, that is left to our father whom will judge all of us. The entire new testament teaches us not to judge. Yes the old testament told us to judge. But that is because we're judged by the word. In the old testament times the word was just that, the word of our father. Then the word was made flesh eg., Jesus. So now we no longer judge one another for the word can do it on it's own. Again, where is the contradiction? Less i'm missing some point here, if that's the case please explain in more detail please. Romans 2 is stating that God doesn't care if you heard "The Law" or not. All that matters is that a person be good and follow the morals that are instilled in everyone's heart. The parable of the good Sumaritan relays the same setiment. Maybe we read different bibles. Here's the start of Romans 2 Romans 2 1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Romans 2:8 says quite the opposite of what you're claiming. 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, But yes, more I think on it. You won't be condemned for never hearing the word, for that was not your choice. We will be judged on our actions in life and what we either did or didn't do. So again yes if you never heard of Jesus and or Heaven, then of course you couldn't be held accountable for either believing or not believing for you didn't take a choice either way. |
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But yes, more I think on it. You won't be condemned for never hearing the word, for that was not your choice. We will be judged on our actions in life and what we either did or didn't do. So again yes if you never heard of Jesus and or Heaven, then of course you couldn't be held accountable for either believing or not believing for you didn't take a choice either way. You can't "choose" to believe something. You either believe it or you don't. The only thing you could possibly do is choose to LIE about whether or not you actually believe it. There is no way that I could ever sincerely believe in the absurdities presented in the biblical cannon of myths. It's just not possible. I would need to believe that God is dumber than rocks, and I can't sincerely say that I believe that. Moreover, that flies directly in the very face of the ideal that God is supposed to be infinitely intelligent and wise. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, it's impossible for me to believe in the biblical rumors. Therefore I can have no CHOICE in the matter. I can't choose to believe in utter absurities and contradictions. That's just silly to even suggest that such a choice could even be possible. And to top it all off, not only would I need to believe in such utter absudities and contradications, but I would also need to believe that I would be condemned because of this. Which itself is a blatant contradiction that this God is supposed to be concerned about righteousness and not petty thing like whehther someone believes something or not. You would have this God condemning perfectly innocent righteous people simply because they don't believe in hearsay rumors of a convoluted and utterly absurd collection of stories. That flies in the very face of what this God was supposedly concerned with from the beginning of time. Christianity has become a train-wreck of a mythology. It started out with a God that was supposedly concerned about 'Rigtheousness" and ended up being about a God who condemns people for not believing in Christian mythology. The whole religion is so utterly absurd it's truly unbelievable that so many people support this nonsense even as they argue with each other about what it supposedly means. This religion is nothing but a cause of great animosity between humans. The "believers" who arrogantly place themselves on the "side" of a God in some utterly stupid imaginary spiritual WAR, against those who see the absurdities of it all. Even those who supposedly "believe" in this jealous God argue with each other and have created a myriad of various belief systems such as Judaism, Islam, Catholicism, and the myriad of protesting interpretations of the Protestants. All to declare spiritual WAR on each other in the name of a God. We serve a Mighty God!!! Don't you mean a "Mighty Stupid God"? What God would design a plan where he has to have himself nailed to a pole in order to offer salavation to his own creation? Sorry, but that's not even sane, much less "believable" And everyone who refuses to believe that the creator of life could be that STUPID is condemned because of this? Please tell me that everyone here is just pulling my leg with this stuff and that the Bible is actaully just a script for stand up comedy. |
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Edited by
Peter_Pan69
on
Sun 11/14/10 11:10 AM
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Peter Pan wrote: P.S. read Romans 2 before insisting people "MUST BELIEVE" your insane hearsay rumors. You also might want to read up on hell and the 3 different words that were mistranslated. (and yes, even with this info, my prediction still stands) So you found a passage in the Bible that appears to contradict the main gospels. All you keep doing is confirming the ambiguity of the cannon. In fact, you Christians are fighting with each other. CeriseRose writes, "We serve a Mighty God!!!" And she's telling people that they must "believe" or be condemned. In fact, the Bible does indeed make this claim: Must you allways fulfill my predictions? I didn't see CeriseRose make that claim, care to show me where she did that? John.3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. So in order for Romans 2 to suggest any differently requires that John was either lying, or simply in complete ignorance of the truth. Hmmm, believed in the name? It doesn't say believe in the scriptures blindly, so what's the connection? Condemned to what? A life of ignorance and hatred? Condemned to hades (the grave)? Condemned to eternal damnation in the "lake of fire"? Just like I predicted, an obscure reference that is evidence of nothing. So I'll qualify my statement a bit so that you might better comprehend it. "Yet that's precisely what you MUST BELIEVE if you insist on believing these fables are the infallible Word of God" Is this you denying you made that claim? Changing the goalposts too? So show me where in the Bible that the claim is made that scriptures are "the infallible Word of God". Because clearly John 3:18 would need to be false, (either an outright lie or simply misinformation) either of which blows the idea that the Bible is the infallible Word of God right out of the water. No, it doesn't need to be false. Just because you only know about Catholicism does not make Catholicism true. ~~~~ And besides, it's funny how you evaded the real point I was making: It's truly insane to believe that some all-wise, all-intelligent being with whom all things are possible would choose to have himself nailed to a poll as a means of offering salvation to his creation. As far as I'm concerned that's not even close to being believable. I evaded nothing, it you who evades challenges to your own claims. Calling anyone insane who would believe something is really just an ad-hominem, but you forget that you confessed to believing that same thing. So you're no longer insane now, is that what you're getting at? Again, I would ask for evidence that Christ's crucifixion was God's intended plan for "propitation". Read here for futher info: http://www.theopedia.com/Penal_substitutionary_atonement We've been through this before, human sacrifice has never been condoned, your supposed "sacrifice" was not done according to Jewish law and blood sacrifices were only for unintentional sins... ~~~~ Finally Mr. Peter Pan, If you believe that the Bible is telling people that it doesn't matter what they believe or what God they worship, then why don't you just express those thoughts directly and renounce the Christians who proselytize otherwise? You seem to always be taking the contradicting stance that you simultaneously support Christian proselytizing whilst always disagreeing with the fundamental tenets that most Christian proselytizers preach. The only "proselytizer" I see here is you. Using ad-hominems, you try to convert people to have your beliefs. Everyone else is content to supply their opinions or quote scriptures and leave it at that. You must argue constantly, insult those who believe otherwise, deny your own words and then claim that everyone else is the "proselytizer". If it's not important to believe that the Bible is the "Word of God" and that Jesus was "The Christ" then why not set those Christian proselytizers straight on that? First of all, they are not proselytizers. Second, I do attempt to "set them straight" sometimes but they do not make the outrageous claims that you do. You insist that it's "your way or no way" while they are content with voicing their oppinions and letting the readers make up their minds. Instead, you seem to be attacking the people who disagree with the proselytizers even whilst you yourself appear to disagree with their claims. It's not "their" claims, it's your claims. What you see as "attacks", I see as defense. We can take a general consensus if you like, as you are the one who constantly resorts to an "appeal to authority" with your claims and statements of "I don't need to prove this, or I don't need to prove that as everyone knows this or that" (paraphrased of course). I've said it before and I'll say it again. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but if you insist on making false claims, presenting false dilemas, insulting people or getting the facts wrong, I will say something. So take it as an attack if you like, it'll give you more of a reason to spew your bigotry and hatred without feeling an ounce of guilt. |
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But yes, more I think on it. You won't be condemned for never hearing the word, for that was not your choice. We will be judged on our actions in life and what we either did or didn't do. So again yes if you never heard of Jesus and or Heaven, then of course you couldn't be held accountable for either believing or not believing for you didn't take a choice either way. You can't "choose" to believe something. You either believe it or you don't. The only thing you could possibly do is choose to LIE about whether or not you actually believe it. There is no way that I could ever sincerely believe in the absurdities presented in the biblical cannon of myths. It's just not possible. I would need to believe that God is dumber than rocks, and I can't sincerely say that I believe that. Moreover, that flies directly in the very face of the ideal that God is supposed to be infinitely intelligent and wise. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, it's impossible for me to believe in the biblical rumors. Therefore I can have no CHOICE in the matter. I can't choose to believe in utter absurities and contradictions. That's just silly to even suggest that such a choice could even be possible. And to top it all off, not only would I need to believe in such utter absudities and contradications, but I would also need to believe that I would be condemned because of this. Which itself is a blatant contradiction that this God is supposed to be concerned about righteousness and not petty thing like whehther someone believes something or not. You would have this God condemning perfectly innocent righteous people simply because they don't believe in hearsay rumors of a convoluted and utterly absurd collection of stories. That flies in the very face of what this God was supposedly concerned with from the beginning of time. Christianity has become a train-wreck of a mythology. It started out with a God that was supposedly concerned about 'Rigtheousness" and ended up being about a God who condemns people for not believing in Christian mythology. The whole religion is so utterly absurd it's truly unbelievable that so many people support this nonsense even as they argue with each other about what it supposedly means. This religion is nothing but a cause of great animosity between humans. The "believers" who arrogantly place themselves on the "side" of a God in some utterly stupid imaginary spiritual WAR, against those who see the absurdities of it all. Even those who supposedly "believe" in this jealous God argue with each other and have created a myriad of various belief systems such as Judaism, Islam, Catholicism, and the myriad of protesting interpretations of the Protestants. All to declare spiritual WAR on each other in the name of a God. We serve a Mighty God!!! Don't you mean a "Mighty Stupid God"? What God would design a plan where he has to have himself nailed to a pole in order to offer salavation to his own creation? Sorry, but that's not even sane, much less "believable" And everyone who refuses to believe that the creator of life could be that STUPID is condemned because of this? Please tell me that everyone here is just pulling my leg with this stuff and that the Bible is actaully just a script for stand up comedy. You can't "choose" to believe something. You either believe it or you don't. The only thing you could possibly do is choose to LIE about whether or not you actually believe it. There is no way that I could ever sincerely believe in the absurdities presented in the biblical cannon of myths. It's just not possible. I would need to believe that God is dumber than rocks, and I can't sincerely say that I believe that. Moreover, that flies directly in the very face of the ideal that God is supposed to be infinitely intelligent and wise. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, it's impossible for me to believe in the biblical rumors. Therefore I can have no CHOICE in the matter. I can't choose to believe in utter absurities and contradictions. That's just silly to even suggest that such a choice could even be possible. ALL beliefs of any sort is a choice. You can CHOOSE to believe in it's validity or CHOOSE not to, you can CHOOSE to believe the world is flat or CHOOSE to believe the world is round. You can CHOOSE to believe there are aliens or you can CHOOSE to believe there are none. Beliefs of any sort are not something that can be forced upon someone, they have to willing CHOOSE to believe in it. And a choice is an action and that is what we will be judged on, the choices and or actions we did through our lives. |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Sun 11/14/10 11:31 AM
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Just like I predicted, an obscure reference that is evidence of nothing. Well, when discussing the biblical cannon that's an easy prediction to make because it basically applies to the whole entire cannon. I'm sure that no one would have any problem with "Christianity" if all Christians confessed that the entire biblical cannon is an obsure reference source.  If they would simply confess this single truth then perhaps they stop claiming to be the "servants of God" whilst accusing everyone else of "choosing to reject God". You continually verify my observations. You sir, are a "Designer Christian". Or as some people describe it, "Salad Bar Christian". You take what you like and ignore or reject the rest. In truth Peter, I could claim to be precisely the same thing! I represent the epitome of Protestantism. Protestantism is a protest against the idea that any single human "Pope" should interpret the Bible for other people and that everyone should interpret it for themsleves. Well, I read the bible and my conclusions (and interpretations) are as follows: 1. The Old Testament holds no more merit than Greek Mythology. 2. IMHO, Jesus never claimed to be the son of a virgin or the son of the Biblical God of Abraham, and much of what was attributed to him via the hearsay rumors of the New Testament suggests to me that Jesus was most likely teaching the wisdom of Mahayan Buddhism. 3. I see the New Testament as being nothing more than over-zealous hearsay rumors and superstitions that clearly have an agenda to try to make out like Jesus was a demigod. I personally don't believe those rumors. So there you go. No Protestant can sincerely argue with my views on this because the whole basis of Protestantism is the idea that everyone should interpret this cannon of stories for themselves. And that's what I do. Therefore, all Protestants should honor my personal interpretations as being correct for me. That was supposed to be the whole idea behind Protestantism. The IRONY of Protestantism is that far too many Protestants get it in their heads that they need to become "Paper Popes" for Christ's sake and interpret the scriptures for other people. But that flies in the very face of what "Protestantism" orginally stood against. So not only are the scriptures obscure contradictions, but Protestantism istelf has become a blatant contradiction to what it originally stood for. People who read the scritpures and conclude that Jesus could not have been the son of the God of Abraham should be respected for their conclusions, and not be accused for CHOSING to REJECT GOD!
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ALL beliefs of any sort is a choice. You can CHOOSE to believe in it's validity or CHOOSE not to, you can CHOOSE to believe the world is flat or CHOOSE to believe the world is round. You can CHOOSE to believe there are aliens or you can CHOOSE to believe there are none. Beliefs of any sort are not something that can be forced upon someone, they have to willing CHOOSE to believe in it. And a choice is an action and that is what we will be judged on, the choices and or actions we did through our lives. If you believe like that then I can only conclude that you have a totally irrational mind. I think rationally, therefore I cannot choose what I believe. I can only believe things that make rational sense. It makes no rational sense to me that an all-wise God would be stupid. Thus I cannot believe in the Bible. |
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ALL beliefs of any sort is a choice. You can CHOOSE to believe in it's validity or CHOOSE not to, you can CHOOSE to believe the world is flat or CHOOSE to believe the world is round. You can CHOOSE to believe there are aliens or you can CHOOSE to believe there are none. Beliefs of any sort are not something that can be forced upon someone, they have to willing CHOOSE to believe in it. And a choice is an action and that is what we will be judged on, the choices and or actions we did through our lives. If you believe like that then I can only conclude that you have a totally irrational mind. I think rationally, therefore I cannot choose what I believe. I can only believe things that make rational sense. It makes no rational sense to me that an all-wise God would be stupid. Thus I cannot believe in the Bible. Oh but there's a contradiction in your statement. You do still choose what you believe for you've chosen to think rationally. So therefore in the long run you still chose to think that way. That and YOU choose what you think is rational and what isn't, so again nevertheless you still CHOOSE what you wish to put your faith in. |
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Cowboy wrote: ALL beliefs of any sort is a choice. You can CHOOSE to believe in it's validity or CHOOSE not to, you can CHOOSE to believe the world is flat or CHOOSE to believe the world is round. You can CHOOSE to believe there are aliens or you can CHOOSE to believe there are none. My choices are based on rationale and evidence. "You can CHOOSE to believe in it's (the bible?) validity or CHOOSE not to." No, I weigh which makes more sense and accept that as being the most probable truth. As far as I can see the evidence against the Bible beng valid is overwhelming. And there is basically no credible evidence to support it, IMHO. So why choose to believe it's valid when the evidence suggests othewise? "you can CHOOSE to believe the world is flat or CHOOSE to believe the world is round." There is overwhelming evidence that the world is round, and no evidence that it is flat. "You can CHOOSE to believe there are aliens or you can CHOOSE to believe there are none." I have never seen any evidence of aliens, thus I have no reason to believe they exist. However, that doesn't mean that I rule them out either. On the contrary, from what I understand about physics and the unvierse I would concluded that life is probably fairly abundant throughout the universe. Do I believe that it is? No. I simply believe that it's possible based on what I know. In short, Cowboy, there is overwhelming evidence that the claims being made in the bible are false, and absolutely no evidence that they hold any truth. As far as I'm concerned the contradictions that I would need to accept in order to believe in the Bible are endless. So what would be my 'incentive' to believe it? On FAITH? Because I would somehow WANT it to be true? In all honestly Cowboy nothing would please me more than to know that the Biblical account of God is as false as it can possibly be. No way would I want to believe that we are at odds with our creator and that our creator offers salvation by having having himself nailed to poles. There's just no way that I would even WANT to believe such utterly disgusting things. So where's the motivation to believe it? As I've said many times, just look at some other spiritual philosophies and they are FAR MORE ATTRACTIVE, not to mention far more reasonable. If you're going to place FAITH in something, why not place it there? Why not have FAITH that our creator truly is awesome BEYOND BELIEF? I mean if you're going to have FAITH, put it in something worthy of your effort. Why CHOOSE to allow a bunch of ancient male-chauvinists to dictate to you what God must be like? |
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Oh but there's a contradiction in your statement. You do still choose what you believe for you've chosen to think rationally. So therefore in the long run you still chose to think that way. That and YOU choose what you think is rational and what isn't, so again nevertheless you still CHOOSE what you wish to put your faith in. Now your talking FAITH, before you were speaking of BELIEF. Get that all squared away and then if you'd like to ask me why I don't place my FAITH in the Bible, I'll be glad to tell you.
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Cowboy wrote: ALL beliefs of any sort is a choice. You can CHOOSE to believe in it's validity or CHOOSE not to, you can CHOOSE to believe the world is flat or CHOOSE to believe the world is round. You can CHOOSE to believe there are aliens or you can CHOOSE to believe there are none. My choices are based on rationale and evidence. "You can CHOOSE to believe in it's (the bible?) validity or CHOOSE not to." No, I weigh which makes more sense and accept that as being the most probable truth. As far as I can see the evidence against the Bible beng valid is overwhelming. And there is basically no credible evidence to support it, IMHO. So why choose to believe it's valid when the evidence suggests othewise? "you can CHOOSE to believe the world is flat or CHOOSE to believe the world is round." There is overwhelming evidence that the world is round, and no evidence that it is flat. "You can CHOOSE to believe there are aliens or you can CHOOSE to believe there are none." I have never seen any evidence of aliens, thus I have no reason to believe they exist. However, that doesn't mean that I rule them out either. On the contrary, from what I understand about physics and the unvierse I would concluded that life is probably fairly abundant throughout the universe. Do I believe that it is? No. I simply believe that it's possible based on what I know. In short, Cowboy, there is overwhelming evidence that the claims being made in the bible are false, and absolutely no evidence that they hold any truth. As far as I'm concerned the contradictions that I would need to accept in order to believe in the Bible are endless. So what would be my 'incentive' to believe it? On FAITH? Because I would somehow WANT it to be true? In all honestly Cowboy nothing would please me more than to know that the Biblical account of God is as false as it can possibly be. No way would I want to believe that we are at odds with our creator and that our creator offers salvation by having having himself nailed to poles. There's just no way that I would even WANT to believe such utterly disgusting things. So where's the motivation to believe it? As I've said many times, just look at some other spiritual philosophies and they are FAR MORE ATTRACTIVE, not to mention far more reasonable. If you're going to place FAITH in something, why not place it there? Why not have FAITH that our creator truly is awesome BEYOND BELIEF? I mean if you're going to have FAITH, put it in something worthy of your effort. Why CHOOSE to allow a bunch of ancient male-chauvinists to dictate to you what God must be like? "You can CHOOSE to believe in it's (the bible?) validity or CHOOSE not to." No, I weigh which makes more sense and accept that as being the most probable truth. As far as I can see the evidence against the Bible beng valid is overwhelming. And there is basically no credible evidence to support it, IMHO. So why choose to believe it's valid when the evidence suggests othewise? huh "you can CHOOSE to believe the world is flat or CHOOSE to believe the world is round." There is overwhelming evidence that the world is round, and no evidence that it is flat. "You can CHOOSE to believe there are aliens or you can CHOOSE to believe there are none Evidence is only good if it's accepted as good. There are books to show the validity of God from people with past experience directly with our father. It is only good evidence if you are willing to accept it as such. You could NEVER "prove" the world is round to anyone less they were willing to accept the evidence as such. Could go on and on about how the landing on the moon was a hoax and wasn't real. Could go on and on about many things people CHOOSE to believe as real. |
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Oh but there's a contradiction in your statement. You do still choose what you believe for you've chosen to think rationally. So therefore in the long run you still chose to think that way. That and YOU choose what you think is rational and what isn't, so again nevertheless you still CHOOSE what you wish to put your faith in. Now your talking FAITH, before you were speaking of BELIEF. Get that all squared away and then if you'd like to ask me why I don't place my FAITH in the Bible, I'll be glad to tell you. Faith and belief go hand in hand. You have faith in something you then believe in it. Faith doesn't only pertain to religion either. If you believe you'll get the bills paid this month, you have faith that they'll get paid ect. And it doesn't really matter to me why you have chosen not to believe in the bible, but if you wish you can go for it. |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Sun 11/14/10 12:04 PM
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Cowboy wrote: ALL beliefs of any sort is a choice. You can CHOOSE to believe in it's validity or CHOOSE not to, you can CHOOSE to believe the world is flat or CHOOSE to believe the world is round. You can CHOOSE to believe there are aliens or you can CHOOSE to believe there are none. My choices are based on rationale and evidence. "You can CHOOSE to believe in it's (the bible?) validity or CHOOSE not to." No, I weigh which makes more sense and accept that as being the most probable truth. As far as I can see the evidence against the Bible beng valid is overwhelming. And there is basically no credible evidence to support it, IMHO. So why choose to believe it's valid when the evidence suggests othewise? "you can CHOOSE to believe the world is flat or CHOOSE to believe the world is round." There is overwhelming evidence that the world is round, and no evidence that it is flat. "You can CHOOSE to believe there are aliens or you can CHOOSE to believe there are none." I have never seen any evidence of aliens, thus I have no reason to believe they exist. However, that doesn't mean that I rule them out either. On the contrary, from what I understand about physics and the unvierse I would concluded that life is probably fairly abundant throughout the universe. Do I believe that it is? No. I simply believe that it's possible based on what I know. In short, Cowboy, there is overwhelming evidence that the claims being made in the bible are false, and absolutely no evidence that they hold any truth. As far as I'm concerned the contradictions that I would need to accept in order to believe in the Bible are endless. So what would be my 'incentive' to believe it? On FAITH? Because I would somehow WANT it to be true? In all honestly Cowboy nothing would please me more than to know that the Biblical account of God is as false as it can possibly be. No way would I want to believe that we are at odds with our creator and that our creator offers salvation by having having himself nailed to poles. There's just no way that I would even WANT to believe such utterly disgusting things. So where's the motivation to believe it? As I've said many times, just look at some other spiritual philosophies and they are FAR MORE ATTRACTIVE, not to mention far more reasonable. If you're going to place FAITH in something, why not place it there? Why not have FAITH that our creator truly is awesome BEYOND BELIEF? I mean if you're going to have FAITH, put it in something worthy of your effort. Why CHOOSE to allow a bunch of ancient male-chauvinists to dictate to you what God must be like? "You can CHOOSE to believe in it's (the bible?) validity or CHOOSE not to." No, I weigh which makes more sense and accept that as being the most probable truth. As far as I can see the evidence against the Bible beng valid is overwhelming. And there is basically no credible evidence to support it, IMHO. So why choose to believe it's valid when the evidence suggests othewise? huh "you can CHOOSE to believe the world is flat or CHOOSE to believe the world is round." There is overwhelming evidence that the world is round, and no evidence that it is flat. "You can CHOOSE to believe there are aliens or you can CHOOSE to believe there are none Evidence is only good if it's accepted as good. There are books to show the validity of God from people with past experience directly with our father. It is only good evidence if you are willing to accept it as such. You could NEVER "prove" the world is round to anyone less they were willing to accept the evidence as such. Could go on and on about how the landing on the moon was a hoax and wasn't real. Could go on and on about many things people CHOOSE to believe as real. No way would I want to believe that we are at odds with our creator and that our creator offers salvation by having having himself nailed to poles. There's just no way that I would even WANT to believe such utterly disgusting things. Right there is why you don't believe in it. You've CHOOSEN not to eg., "No way would I want to believe". And our father didn't have himself nailed to a post, his son did if you will. His only begotten son sacrificed everything so that we may be able to rejoice in the kingdom of God. |
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But yes, more I think on it. You won't be condemned for never hearing the word, for that was not your choice. We will be judged on our actions in life and what we either did or didn't do. So again yes if you never heard of Jesus and or Heaven, then of course you couldn't be held accountable for either believing or not believing for you didn't take a choice either way. You can't "choose" to believe something. You either believe it or you don't. The only thing you could possibly do is choose to LIE about whether or not you actually believe it. There is no way that I could ever sincerely believe in the absurdities presented in the biblical cannon of myths. It's just not possible. I would need to believe that God is dumber than rocks, and I can't sincerely say that I believe that. Moreover, that flies directly in the very face of the ideal that God is supposed to be infinitely intelligent and wise. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, it's impossible for me to believe in the biblical rumors. Therefore I can have no CHOICE in the matter. I can't choose to believe in utter absurities and contradictions. That's just silly to even suggest that such a choice could even be possible. And to top it all off, not only would I need to believe in such utter absudities and contradications, but I would also need to believe that I would be condemned because of this. Which itself is a blatant contradiction that this God is supposed to be concerned about righteousness and not petty thing like whehther someone believes something or not. You would have this God condemning perfectly innocent righteous people simply because they don't believe in hearsay rumors of a convoluted and utterly absurd collection of stories. That flies in the very face of what this God was supposedly concerned with from the beginning of time. Christianity has become a train-wreck of a mythology. It started out with a God that was supposedly concerned about 'Rigtheousness" and ended up being about a God who condemns people for not believing in Christian mythology. The whole religion is so utterly absurd it's truly unbelievable that so many people support this nonsense even as they argue with each other about what it supposedly means. This religion is nothing but a cause of great animosity between humans. The "believers" who arrogantly place themselves on the "side" of a God in some utterly stupid imaginary spiritual WAR, against those who see the absurdities of it all. Even those who supposedly "believe" in this jealous God argue with each other and have created a myriad of various belief systems such as Judaism, Islam, Catholicism, and the myriad of protesting interpretations of the Protestants. All to declare spiritual WAR on each other in the name of a God. We serve a Mighty God!!! Don't you mean a "Mighty Stupid God"? What God would design a plan where he has to have himself nailed to a pole in order to offer salavation to his own creation? Sorry, but that's not even sane, much less "believable" And everyone who refuses to believe that the creator of life could be that STUPID is condemned because of this? Please tell me that everyone here is just pulling my leg with this stuff and that the Bible is actaully just a script for stand up comedy. 1Co_2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Co_3:19, For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Sun 11/14/10 01:45 PM
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Cowboy wrote: Right there is why you don't believe in it. You've CHOOSEN not to eg., "No way would I want to believe". Again you're confusing faith with belief. Do I "believe" that it makes sense that an all-wise God would be stupid? No, that's a contradiction in terms, and thus does not even merit serious consideration, much less belief. On the topic of "FAITH". If you ask me if I want to have FAITH that humans are responsible for screwing up God's perfect creation? No. Why would I want to have FAITH in such a thing? If you ask me if I want to have FAITH that since we screwed up a perfect creation we are in dire need of repentance? No. Why would I want to have FAITH in such a thing? If you ask me if I want to have FAITH that our creator had to have himself nailed to a pole to offer us salvation? No. Why would I want to have FAITH in such a horrible thing? That would be utterly stupid wouldn't it? And our father didn't have himself nailed to a post, his son did if you will. His only begotten son sacrificed everything so that we may be able to rejoice in the kingdom of God. You must believe such a foolish thing on pure FAITH. Again, I see no reason to even want to place FAITH in such a horror story. Especially when there are far better pictures of God available. You say: There are books to show the validity of God from people with past experience directly with our father. It is only good evidence if you are willing to accept it as such. This is true of all spiritual beliefs. That how they became beliefs in the first place. Thus again, I ask you, why place your faith in ignorant stories that are based on violence, blood, guts, male-chauvinistic, stoning people to death, etc, etc, etc., when you can instead place your faith in far better stories? YOU have CHOSEN to place your faith in a truly UGLY picture of God. And now you're trying to get other people to choose that ugly picture too. But even WORSE you accuse them of "Rejecting God" if they refuse to place their faith in that picture! That's one of the most dispicable things about the Christian brainwashing scheme, they accuse decent people of rejecting God if those poeple refuse to accept the ignorance of religious bigotry, male-chauvinism, hatred toward gays and heathen, etc, etc, etc. You support a hateful doctrine as the "Word of God". That's truly sad. And to think that you did this by your own FREEDOM of Choice!  That just makes it all the worse, because by your own confession you could have simply CHOSEN BETTER! |
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1Co_2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Co_3:19, For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. I personally don't believe anything Paul has to say. |
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Cowboy wrote: Right there is why you don't believe in it. You've CHOOSEN not to eg., "No way would I want to believe". Again you're confusing faith with belief. Do I "believe" that it makes sense that an all-wise God would be stupid? No, that's a contradiction in terms, and thus does not even merit serious consideration, much less belief. On the topic of "FAITH". If you ask me if I want to have FAITH that humans are responsible for screwing up God's perfect creation? No. Why would I want to have FAITH in such a thing? If you ask me if I want to have FAITH that since we screwed up a perfect creation we are in dire need of repentance? No. Why would I want to have FAITH in such a thing? If you ask me if I want to have FAITH that our creator had to have himself nailed to a pole to offer us salvation? No. Why would I want to have FAITH in such a horrible thing? That would be utterly stupid wouldn't it? And our father didn't have himself nailed to a post, his son did if you will. His only begotten son sacrificed everything so that we may be able to rejoice in the kingdom of God. You must believe such a foolish thing on pure FAITH. Again, I see no reason to even want to place FAITH in such a horror story. Especially when there are far better pictures of God available. You say: There are books to show the validity of God from people with past experience directly with our father. It is only good evidence if you are willing to accept it as such. This is true of all spiritual beliefs. That how they became beliefs in the first place. Thus again, I ask you, why place your faith in ignorant stories that are based on violence, blood, guts, male-chauvinistic, stoning people to death, etc, etc, etc., when you can instead place your faith in far better stories? YOU have CHOSEN to place your faith in a truly UGLY picture of God. And now you're trying to get other people to choose that ugly picture too. But even WORSE you accuse them of "Rejecting God" if they refuse to place their faith in that picture! That's one of the most dispicable things about the Christian brainwashing scheme, they accuse decent people of rejecting God if those poeple refuse to accept the ignorance of religious bigotry, male-chauvinism, hatred toward gays and heathen, etc, etc, etc. You support a hateful doctrine as the "Word of God". That's truly sad. And to think that you did this by your own FREEDOM of Choice! That just makes it all the worse, because by your own confession you could have simply CHOSEN BETTER! Thus again, I ask you, why place your faith in ignorant stories that are based on violence, blood, guts, male-chauvinistic, stoning people to death, etc, etc, etc., when you can instead place your faith in far better stories? No it's not all beautiful, pretty, sweet, nice. We're not worshipping the tooth fairy. The bible isn't set up to totally be a beautiful sweet lovey dovey thing. There are reactions to certain actions. Would you rather have lived your life in a sinful way never knowing that what you did was sinful and face the consequence of death in the end for living as such. Or would you rather be informed of such before hand? I personally prefer to be informed of such so I can try my best as to not disappoint our father. But if you love living in the dark, more power to you brother, hope it all works for you. |
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