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| Topic: People in America and europe the Worst sinners .. | |
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It's not the fact that his physical body died. It's that Jesus SACRIFICED his life for us. His every waking second of life was for us in one way or other. He taught us of God's law and new covenant. Jesus helped many of people along the way of his life, he healed the blind among many other miracles. HE LIVED FOR US, he didn't live for himself and maybe a couple other people, he lived for ALL OF US, his every waking second was given to us. Where do you get this idea? It certainly doesn't come from the Bible. According to the Bible Jesus argued with the Scribes and Pharisees when he was about 12 years old and then wasn't seen or heard from again until he was almost 30. At best he only had a few years of actual preaching before he threw his temper tantrum overturning money tables. A lot of people, including myself, believe that during Jesus' "missing years" he actually traveled to India and became a Mahayana Buddhist Monk. In fact, in Mahayana Buddhism it was quite common for the monasteries to refuse to take in student unless they first vowed to become a Bodhisattva after their enlightenment. Moreover, all Bodhisattvas would indeed dedicate the rest of their lives to helping others reach nirvana. So Jesus was not at all unique in this quest. This is a very common quest of all Bodhisattvas. This is the way of Mahayana Buddhism. And at the end of it, no matter how much love Jesus showed the world, through teachings and or healing, man still stuck him on that cross. How discusting is that? Exactly, crucifying Jesus was indeed disgusting. This is why I personally refuse to condone it. You may not realize this but if you condone having Jesus crucified to pay for your sins then you may as well nail him to the pole yourself, because you're accepting that act in your name. I refuse it. Period. If I were living back then I would have done everything in my power to prevent the crucifixion. Although, in truth I think the best way to have prevented it would have been to simply tell Jesus to quit calling the Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites, and to heed his own teachings and turn the other cheek instead of throwing a public temper tantrum overturning the money tables. Jesus brought on his own demise through his own actions. There was no need for Jesus to call sit around ranting about how the Scribes and Pharisees where hypocrites. He could have just stuck to preaching his own values and simply refrained from passing judgments on other people (again violating his very own teachings). He simply didn't practice what he preached. He was far from perfect, and he made some serious mistake. He probably thought he could get away with it, and certainly never dreamed that he would be crucified. In fact, Pilot himself exonerated Jesus, even according to the gospels. It was the angry mob (probably incited by the Scribes and Pharisees who were angered by Jesus' hypocritical ranting about them being hypocrites) that got Jesus crucified. But you're right. The fact that Jesus was crucified is indeed a disgusting thing. Therefore you obviously "don't" accept it. You reject having Jesus crucified for YOUR SAKE! So technically, you refuse the very thing that you're supposed to be accepting for YOUR SAKE. I absolutely no not accept or condone having Jesus (or anyone else) nailed to a pole to "pay" for my sins. Therefore this mythology wouldn't work for me even if it were true. This Biblical God would have locked me out of his heaven forever, because he would have demanded that I condone something that I refuse to condone and will never condone. If you aren't willing to nail Jesus to the pole to save your own butt, then you do not accept the crucifixion of Jesus for YOUR SAKE. That's the oxymoronic problem with this religion. It's far better to just realize that Jesus himself was basically rejecting the horrible teachings of the Old Testament, and instead he was trying to get people to see the love and wisdom of the philosophy of Mahayana Buddhism. He was brutally killed for his efforts, and then not only nailed to the pole, but via the writings of the authors of the New Testament, he was also "nailed" to the very doctrine of whose teachings he rejected - the Old Testament! Christians use Jesus to prop up the teachings of the very dogma that Jesus himself refuted. So clearly you think the crucifixion of Jesus is disgusting too, and I'm willing to bet that you would not take part in that crucifixion or condone it in any way. And if that's true, then it's silly for you to claim that you accept the Crucifixion of Christ as payment for your sins. Because clearly you don't. By your own admission you think it's disgusting. I do too, and that's why I refuse to accept it. Even if I thought it was true, I'd still have to reject the offer. So the religion doesn't work for me either as a fable or as truth. And It's certainly not something that I would want to place "Faith" in. If it is true it's going to have to be proven to me, and we all know that the only way to do that is to have some Zeus-like godhead appear in the sky and angrily shout down to us, "Yes! I'm really that sick! And if you don't love me I'll have you nailed to a pole too!" Then we'd know the TRUTH. But until that happens, I prefer to place my "faith" in the belief that it's all just a really sick rumor and that Jesus was most likely a Mahayana Buddhist who made some mistakes. He was basically crucified by the very Scribes and Pharisees that he continually publically instulted and called hypocrites. He shouldn't have gone down that path. He should have refrained from judging others, just as he himself had preached. All he had to do was practice what he preached and he would have been fine. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 09/29/10 10:22 AM
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being nailed to the post was a disgusting CUSTOM of those times,, much like our death penalty is today
that was the acceptable punishment of THAT time which Jesus also accepted,,, I believe he accepted it to save the souls of humankind. I accept that he accepted it to save the souls of humankind. My perspective comes from my love of Jesus, not of man. So whether or not I condone mans methods has little to do with how much I love Jesus for accepting the sin for me,,, |
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It's not the fact that his physical body died. It's that Jesus SACRIFICED his life for us. His every waking second of life was for us in one way or other. He taught us of God's law and new covenant. Jesus helped many of people along the way of his life, he healed the blind among many other miracles. HE LIVED FOR US, he didn't live for himself and maybe a couple other people, he lived for ALL OF US, his every waking second was given to us. Where do you get this idea? It certainly doesn't come from the Bible. According to the Bible Jesus argued with the Scribes and Pharisees when he was about 12 years old and then wasn't seen or heard from again until he was almost 30. At best he only had a few years of actual preaching before he threw his temper tantrum overturning money tables. A lot of people, including myself, believe that during Jesus' "missing years" he actually traveled to India and became a Mahayana Buddhist Monk. In fact, in Mahayana Buddhism it was quite common for the monasteries to refuse to take in student unless they first vowed to become a Bodhisattva after their enlightenment. Moreover, all Bodhisattvas would indeed dedicate the rest of their lives to helping others reach nirvana. So Jesus was not at all unique in this quest. This is a very common quest of all Bodhisattvas. This is the way of Mahayana Buddhism. And at the end of it, no matter how much love Jesus showed the world, through teachings and or healing, man still stuck him on that cross. How discusting is that? Exactly, crucifying Jesus was indeed disgusting. This is why I personally refuse to condone it. You may not realize this but if you condone having Jesus crucified to pay for your sins then you may as well nail him to the pole yourself, because you're accepting that act in your name. I refuse it. Period. If I were living back then I would have done everything in my power to prevent the crucifixion. Although, in truth I think the best way to have prevented it would have been to simply tell Jesus to quit calling the Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites, and to heed his own teachings and turn the other cheek instead of throwing a public temper tantrum overturning the money tables. Jesus brought on his own demise through his own actions. There was no need for Jesus to call sit around ranting about how the Scribes and Pharisees where hypocrites. He could have just stuck to preaching his own values and simply refrained from passing judgments on other people (again violating his very own teachings). He simply didn't practice what he preached. He was far from perfect, and he made some serious mistake. He probably thought he could get away with it, and certainly never dreamed that he would be crucified. In fact, Pilot himself exonerated Jesus, even according to the gospels. It was the angry mob (probably incited by the Scribes and Pharisees who were angered by Jesus' hypocritical ranting about them being hypocrites) that got Jesus crucified. But you're right. The fact that Jesus was crucified is indeed a disgusting thing. Therefore you obviously "don't" accept it. You reject having Jesus crucified for YOUR SAKE! So technically, you refuse the very thing that you're supposed to be accepting for YOUR SAKE. I absolutely no not accept or condone having Jesus (or anyone else) nailed to a pole to "pay" for my sins. Therefore this mythology wouldn't work for me even if it were true. This Biblical God would have locked me out of his heaven forever, because he would have demanded that I condone something that I refuse to condone and will never condone. If you aren't willing to nail Jesus to the pole to save your own butt, then you do not accept the crucifixion of Jesus for YOUR SAKE. That's the oxymoronic problem with this religion. It's far better to just realize that Jesus himself was basically rejecting the horrible teachings of the Old Testament, and instead he was trying to get people to see the love and wisdom of the philosophy of Mahayana Buddhism. He was brutally killed for his efforts, and then not only nailed to the pole, but via the writings of the authors of the New Testament, he was also "nailed" to the very doctrine of whose teachings he rejected - the Old Testament! Christians use Jesus to prop up the teachings of the very dogma that Jesus himself refuted. So clearly you think the crucifixion of Jesus is disgusting too, and I'm willing to bet that you would not take part in that crucifixion or condone it in any way. And if that's true, then it's silly for you to claim that you accept the Crucifixion of Christ as payment for your sins. Because clearly you don't. By your own admission you think it's disgusting. I do too, and that's why I refuse to accept it. Even if I thought it was true, I'd still have to reject the offer. So the religion doesn't work for me either as a fable or as truth. And It's certainly not something that I would want to place "Faith" in. If it is true it's going to have to be proven to me, and we all know that the only way to do that is to have some Zeus-like godhead appear in the sky and angrily shout down to us, "Yes! I'm really that sick! And if you don't love me I'll have you nailed to a pole too!" Then we'd know the TRUTH. But until that happens, I prefer to place my "faith" in the belief that it's all just a really sick rumor and that Jesus was most likely a Mahayana Buddhist who made some mistakes. He was basically crucified by the very Scribes and Pharisees that he continually publically instulted and called hypocrites. He shouldn't have gone down that path. He should have refrained from judging others, just as he himself had preached. All he had to do was practice what he preached and he would have been fine. =============================================== According to the Bible Jesus argued with the Scribes and Pharisees when he was about 12 years old and then wasn't seen or heard from again until he was almost 30. =============================================== I would like to know where you get these numbers? The bible doesn't tell of dates when certain things happened. So how would you gather such exact ages? And yes some may have been left out of the bible bout Jesus' life, i really don't care to know when he was constipated. The bible isn't just a diary. The only things that needed to be included was the knowledge of our father and what to do to achieve seeing him. The rest of his life is mute. And on top of that, if he was preaching since he was 12, then how could that have been influenced by Mahayana Buddhist's? |
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It's not the fact that his physical body died. It's that Jesus SACRIFICED his life for us. His every waking second of life was for us in one way or other. He taught us of God's law and new covenant. Jesus helped many of people along the way of his life, he healed the blind among many other miracles. HE LIVED FOR US, he didn't live for himself and maybe a couple other people, he lived for ALL OF US, his every waking second was given to us. Where do you get this idea? It certainly doesn't come from the Bible. According to the Bible Jesus argued with the Scribes and Pharisees when he was about 12 years old and then wasn't seen or heard from again until he was almost 30. At best he only had a few years of actual preaching before he threw his temper tantrum overturning money tables. A lot of people, including myself, believe that during Jesus' "missing years" he actually traveled to India and became a Mahayana Buddhist Monk. In fact, in Mahayana Buddhism it was quite common for the monasteries to refuse to take in student unless they first vowed to become a Bodhisattva after their enlightenment. Moreover, all Bodhisattvas would indeed dedicate the rest of their lives to helping others reach nirvana. So Jesus was not at all unique in this quest. This is a very common quest of all Bodhisattvas. This is the way of Mahayana Buddhism. And at the end of it, no matter how much love Jesus showed the world, through teachings and or healing, man still stuck him on that cross. How discusting is that? Exactly, crucifying Jesus was indeed disgusting. This is why I personally refuse to condone it. You may not realize this but if you condone having Jesus crucified to pay for your sins then you may as well nail him to the pole yourself, because you're accepting that act in your name. I refuse it. Period. If I were living back then I would have done everything in my power to prevent the crucifixion. Although, in truth I think the best way to have prevented it would have been to simply tell Jesus to quit calling the Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites, and to heed his own teachings and turn the other cheek instead of throwing a public temper tantrum overturning the money tables. Jesus brought on his own demise through his own actions. There was no need for Jesus to call sit around ranting about how the Scribes and Pharisees where hypocrites. He could have just stuck to preaching his own values and simply refrained from passing judgments on other people (again violating his very own teachings). He simply didn't practice what he preached. He was far from perfect, and he made some serious mistake. He probably thought he could get away with it, and certainly never dreamed that he would be crucified. In fact, Pilot himself exonerated Jesus, even according to the gospels. It was the angry mob (probably incited by the Scribes and Pharisees who were angered by Jesus' hypocritical ranting about them being hypocrites) that got Jesus crucified. But you're right. The fact that Jesus was crucified is indeed a disgusting thing. Therefore you obviously "don't" accept it. You reject having Jesus crucified for YOUR SAKE! So technically, you refuse the very thing that you're supposed to be accepting for YOUR SAKE. I absolutely no not accept or condone having Jesus (or anyone else) nailed to a pole to "pay" for my sins. Therefore this mythology wouldn't work for me even if it were true. This Biblical God would have locked me out of his heaven forever, because he would have demanded that I condone something that I refuse to condone and will never condone. If you aren't willing to nail Jesus to the pole to save your own butt, then you do not accept the crucifixion of Jesus for YOUR SAKE. That's the oxymoronic problem with this religion. It's far better to just realize that Jesus himself was basically rejecting the horrible teachings of the Old Testament, and instead he was trying to get people to see the love and wisdom of the philosophy of Mahayana Buddhism. He was brutally killed for his efforts, and then not only nailed to the pole, but via the writings of the authors of the New Testament, he was also "nailed" to the very doctrine of whose teachings he rejected - the Old Testament! Christians use Jesus to prop up the teachings of the very dogma that Jesus himself refuted. So clearly you think the crucifixion of Jesus is disgusting too, and I'm willing to bet that you would not take part in that crucifixion or condone it in any way. And if that's true, then it's silly for you to claim that you accept the Crucifixion of Christ as payment for your sins. Because clearly you don't. By your own admission you think it's disgusting. I do too, and that's why I refuse to accept it. Even if I thought it was true, I'd still have to reject the offer. So the religion doesn't work for me either as a fable or as truth. And It's certainly not something that I would want to place "Faith" in. If it is true it's going to have to be proven to me, and we all know that the only way to do that is to have some Zeus-like godhead appear in the sky and angrily shout down to us, "Yes! I'm really that sick! And if you don't love me I'll have you nailed to a pole too!" Then we'd know the TRUTH. But until that happens, I prefer to place my "faith" in the belief that it's all just a really sick rumor and that Jesus was most likely a Mahayana Buddhist who made some mistakes. He was basically crucified by the very Scribes and Pharisees that he continually publically instulted and called hypocrites. He shouldn't have gone down that path. He should have refrained from judging others, just as he himself had preached. All he had to do was practice what he preached and he would have been fine. =============================================== According to the Bible Jesus argued with the Scribes and Pharisees when he was about 12 years old and then wasn't seen or heard from again until he was almost 30. =============================================== I would like to know where you get these numbers? The bible doesn't tell of dates when certain things happened. So how would you gather such exact ages? And yes some may have been left out of the bible bout Jesus' life, i really don't care to know when he was constipated. The bible isn't just a diary. The only things that needed to be included was the knowledge of our father and what to do to achieve seeing him. The rest of his life is mute. And on top of that, if he was preaching since he was 12, then how could that have been influenced by Mahayana Buddhist's? ============================================ So clearly you think the crucifixion of Jesus is disgusting too, and I'm willing to bet that you would not take part in that crucifixion or condone it in any way. And if that's true, then it's silly for you to claim that you accept the Crucifixion of Christ as payment for your sins. Because clearly you don't. By your own admission you think it's disgusting. ============================================= The crucifixion itself isn't what was the disgusting. It was disgusting people would do such a thing to the only begotten child of our father. It's disgusting to know that our father's only begotten son was sent to teach us and heal us spiritually, but yet we turn around and hung him on a cross. That's what is disgusting, the fact that man did this. |
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And on top of that, if he was preaching since he was 12, then how could that have been influenced by Mahayana Buddhist's? If he was already educated at 12 then he most likely was already educated in the ways of Buddhism. Buddhism wasn't a secret. In fact it was at it's peak right around the time that Jesus supposedly lived. Jesus was already refuting the popular religion and arguing with the religious authorities by the time he was 12 (at least according to this hearsay myth). So the idea that he then went off to study Buddhism in more detail makes perfect sense. He clearly didn't like what the Scribes and Pharisees were teaching. The crucifixion itself isn't what was the disgusting. It was disgusting people would do such a thing to the only begotten child of our father. It's disgusting to know that our father's only begotten son was sent to teach us and heal us spiritually, but yet we turn around and hung him on a cross. That's what is disgusting, the fact that man did this. No. The truly disgusting thing is that people actually believe that our creator could be so sick as to be pleased by such an act. This act cannot be blamed on man in any way. On the contrary, the Old Testament has God instructing people to kill sinners, blasphemers and heathens. Jesus qualified to be all three of these things in the eyes of the mob that crucified him. So they would have just being doing God's will. It's an oxymoronic religion because if the crucifixion was man's idea then it wouldn't have been "God's Sacrificial Lamb". It would have merely been an act of man. An act that would have surely only served to piss God off all the more. On the other hand, if Jesus was the Sacrificial Lamb of God, that can only mean that the whole thing was God's plan. But that just translates into a sick demented God. So it's an unworkable myth, IMHO. But like I continue to say, If a belief in this myth pleases you then more power to you. But don't expect me to buy into any of this sickness. I don't believe in the male-chauvinistic who is appeased by bloody sacrifices in the first place. I reject the Old Testament even before it gets to the absurdities of the Christian myth. Jesus makes far more sense as a mortal man who rejected the same things that I reject. Jesus basically taught my moral values, and I thank him for that. I only wish he would have practice his own teachings and stopped short of throwing temper tantrums in temples and calling the clergy hypocrites. It's sad that Jesus didn't have the self-discipline to control his anger. |
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"But you're right. The fact that Jesus was crucified is indeed a disgusting thing. Therefore you obviously "don't" accept it. You reject having Jesus crucified for YOUR SAKE!
So technically, you refuse the very thing that you're supposed to be accepting for YOUR SAKE." I have no problem accepting that christians believe this. In keeping with the OP... My problem with 'islam' as it is currently practiced in most places in the world is the disgusting things they do as 'punishment' for sins... I refuse to believe that God intended for us to commint murder by stone or sword to 'save' the souls of sinners. |
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"But you're right. The fact that Jesus was crucified is indeed a disgusting thing. Therefore you obviously "don't" accept it. You reject having Jesus crucified for YOUR SAKE! So technically, you refuse the very thing that you're supposed to be accepting for YOUR SAKE." I have no problem accepting that christians believe this. In keeping with the OP... My problem with 'islam' as it is currently practiced in most places in the world is the disgusting things they do as 'punishment' for sins... I refuse to believe that God intended for us to commint murder by stone or sword to 'save' the souls of sinners. Well, I personally renounce all the Abrahamic Religions as being harmful to humanity. I don't single out "Christianity" even though it may appear that I do on this forum. But that's only because no one is arguing for the Torah or Quran.  All these religions are based on the God who instructs people to stone sinners and murder heathens. Jesus objected to these practices, but that doesn't change the fact that the original God of the Christian religion did indeed direct people to do these things. |
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"But you're right. The fact that Jesus was crucified is indeed a disgusting thing. Therefore you obviously "don't" accept it. You reject having Jesus crucified for YOUR SAKE! So technically, you refuse the very thing that you're supposed to be accepting for YOUR SAKE." I have no problem accepting that christians believe this. In keeping with the OP... My problem with 'islam' as it is currently practiced in most places in the world is the disgusting things they do as 'punishment' for sins... I refuse to believe that God intended for us to commint murder by stone or sword to 'save' the souls of sinners. Well, I personally renounce all the Abrahamic Religions as being harmful to humanity. I don't single out "Christianity" even though it may appear that I do on this forum. But that's only because no one is arguing for the Torah or Quran. All these religions are based on the God who instructs people to stone sinners and murder heathens. Jesus objected to these practices, but that doesn't change the fact that the original God of the Christian religion did indeed direct people to do these things. ============================================ "But you're right. The fact that Jesus was crucified is indeed a disgusting thing. Therefore you obviously "don't" accept it. You reject having Jesus crucified for YOUR SAKE! ============================================ Don't know where you get this from. I accept it completely. And i take the blame for the cause of the crucifixion. For it is my sins that was reason for Jesus putting himself through this. But it is an incredibly beautiful thing Jesus did. The crucifixion is only disgusting on how you're viewing it. It is disgusting in the first place that Jesus had to go through this. But it is an extremely beautiful thing that Jesus did this for us. ---------------------------------- ============================================== My problem with 'islam' as it is currently practiced in most places in the world is the disgusting things they do as 'punishment' for sins =============================================== The ONLY one that judges and punishes is Jesus. It is not our place to punish people for their sins for it isn't our place to judge them in the first place. Jesus specifically told us not to judge cause whatever level of judgement we judge someone it will be judged on us as well. We complain about the splinter in our neighbours eye, but ignore the beam that is in our own. And that there is the main reason we are not to judge, for we are no better then they are cause we have done the same things. ------------------------------------- ================================================ All these religions are based on the God who instructs people to stone sinners and murder heathens. Jesus objected to these practices, but that doesn't change the fact that the original God of the Christian religion did indeed direct people to do these things. ================================================= Does not teach as such. Teaches us to not judge others. Reference one subject up. |
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================================================ All these religions are based on the God who instructs people to stone sinners and murder heathens. Jesus objected to these practices, but that doesn't change the fact that the original God of the Christian religion did indeed direct people to do these things. ================================================= Does not teach as such. Teaches us to not judge others. Reference one subject up. Everyone is well aware of all of the teachings throughout the Old Testament of God directing people to stone sinners to death, stone heathens to death, and even to stone unruly children to death. Jesus is the man who taught not to judge others. He was crucified for his blaspheme. Jesus also failed to practice what he preached as he was constantly judging the Scribes and Pharisees to be hypocrites. Ironically that very judgment made Jesus himself a hypocrite to his own teachings since he taught not to judge others. So Jesus made a lot of own mistakes, and clearly did not agree with the teachings of the God of the Old Testament. You are claiming a falsehood to suggest that the Biblical God did not teach mortal men to judge others. He most certainly did instruct people to stone sinners and heathens to death, and it's impossible to do that if you don't first judge them to be sinners and heathens, so it is implicit in this God's directives that mortal men are indeed directed to judge each other. There's no getting around it. The only way for you to claim that the creator of this unvierse is not associated with these things is to renounce the Biblical fables yourself as being ungodly and not representative of God. You seem to totally dislike the God that is depicted in the Bible anyway. You're constantly refusing to accept that God is like what the fable claims. So why not just reject the fable, and move on to a religion that portrays a picture of God that you can accept? That's what I did, and if feels really good.  I no longer need to make excuses for a sick nasty God. Instead I just support a picture of God that needs no excuses. 
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================================================ All these religions are based on the God who instructs people to stone sinners and murder heathens. Jesus objected to these practices, but that doesn't change the fact that the original God of the Christian religion did indeed direct people to do these things. ================================================= Does not teach as such. Teaches us to not judge others. Reference one subject up. Everyone is well aware of all of the teachings throughout the Old Testament of God directing people to stone sinners to death, stone heathens to death, and even to stone unruly children to death. Jesus is the man who taught not to judge others. He was crucified for his blaspheme. Jesus also failed to practice what he preached as he was constantly judging the Scribes and Pharisees to be hypocrites. Ironically that very judgment made Jesus himself a hypocrite to his own teachings since he taught not to judge others. So Jesus made a lot of own mistakes, and clearly did not agree with the teachings of the God of the Old Testament. You are claiming a falsehood to suggest that the Biblical God did not teach mortal men to judge others. He most certainly did instruct people to stone sinners and heathens to death, and it's impossible to do that if you don't first judge them to be sinners and heathens, so it is implicit in this God's directives that mortal men are indeed directed to judge each other. There's no getting around it. The only way for you to claim that the creator of this unvierse is not associated with these things is to renounce the Biblical fables yourself as being ungodly and not representative of God. You seem to totally dislike the God that is depicted in the Bible anyway. You're constantly refusing to accept that God is like what the fable claims. So why not just reject the fable, and move on to a religion that portrays a picture of God that you can accept? That's what I did, and if feels really good. I no longer need to make excuses for a sick nasty God. Instead I just support a picture of God that needs no excuses. ====================================================== Everyone is well aware of all of the teachings throughout the Old Testament of God directing people to stone sinners to death, stone heathens to death, and even to stone unruly children to death. Jesus is the man who taught not to judge others. He was crucified for his blaspheme. Jesus also failed to practice what he preached as he was constantly judging the Scribes and Pharisees to be hypocrites. Ironically that very judgment made Jesus himself a hypocrite to his own teachings since he taught not to judge others. ======================================================= Yes the old testament does teach this, but the laws have been fulfilled, completed, finished, no longer has power. And your comparison of Jesus judging us is not accurately compared to say you judging me or me judging you. Jesus IS the judge. Therefore he has all the right to judge us, since it is his duity. --------------------------------------------- ========================================================= You are claiming a falsehood to suggest that the Biblical God did not teach mortal men to judge others. He most certainly did instruct people to stone sinners and heathens to death, and it's impossible to do that if you don't first judge them to be sinners and heathens, so it is implicit in this God's directives that mortal men are indeed directed to judge each other. ========================================================== Yes before Jesus walked the earth, you were judged by your pears. But now that Jesus has come to earth and walked in the feet of a human he is now the judge. And as him becoming our judge that has relinquished our right to judge other for now there is a judge. For further detail refer to first column. ---------------------------------------------- ============================================================ You seem to totally dislike the God that is depicted in the Bible anyway. You're constantly refusing to accept that God is like what the fable claims. So why not just reject the fable, and move on to a religion that portrays a picture of God that you can accept? ============================================================= I dislike nothing about our father. I agree completely, as there was only a limited amount of population on earth it was sufficient to be judged by your peers. As the world became more populated and corrupt, we needed a middle man if you may........ Jesus. I refuse nothing. No God isn't all pretty, flowers, butterfly's, ect. It's all serious straight forward. Disobey me and pay the consequence. |
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Yes the old testament does teach this, but the laws have been fulfilled, completed, finished, no longer has power. And your comparison of Jesus judging us is not accurately compared to say you judging me or me judging you. Jesus IS the judge. Therefore he has all the right to judge us, since it is his duity. --------------------------------------------- None of that matters. You recognize and acknowledge the only thing that matters. The GOD of the Bible DID, at one time direct mortal men to judge each other and stone each other to death. If that would considered an immoral God today, then it would have also been an immoral God back then. So an immoral God is an immoral God. Period. The idea that he might have changed his mind later doesn't excuse such horrible behavior in the past. Yes before Jesus walked the earth, you were judged by your pears. But now that Jesus has come to earth and walked in the feet of a human he is now the judge. And as him becoming our judge that has relinquished our right to judge other for now there is a judge. For further detail refer to first column. That's baloney. Jesus taught no such thing. In fact, the gospels have Jesus claiming that he did NOT come to judge the Earth. John.12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. What part of "For I came not to judge the world" do you not understand?  And if you come back with a biblical verse that claims to have Jesus proclaiming that he is the "judge" of the world, then you will have just revealed yet another blatant contradiction in this fable! In fact, if you can find a verse where Jesus claims to be the judge of humans, then you will have indeed proven that this fable is a fraud, because I just showed above where this fable has Jesus claiming that he did not come to judge the world. This religion has so many contradictions in it, it makes my head spin! It's like an absurd merry-go-round. I dislike nothing about our father. I agree completely, as there was only a limited amount of population on earth it was sufficient to be judged by your peers. As the world became more populated and corrupt, we needed a middle man if you may........ Jesus. I refuse nothing. No God isn't all pretty, flowers, butterfly's, ect. It's all serious straight forward. Disobey me and pay the consequence. Jesus did not come to judge us. So where do you get that Jesus is the judge? If this fable makes that claim then it's clearly in contradiction with John 12:47. "Disobey me and pay the consequence" That sounds like something those sick Hebrews would write, not an all-loving divine God. Besides, it would be impossible for me to disobey God, I never heard from God directly. So it's impossible for me to disobey God until he shows himself to me and makes a request of me. Only then could I disobey him/her/it. Refusing to believe that a bunch of Hebrews speak for God does not qualify as "disobeying" God. That very notion is an unintelligent notion. So unless you expect me to believe that God is unintelligent please don't suggest this silly notion anymore. You're insulting your "God" by suggesting that it's unintelligent. |
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Yes the old testament does teach this, but the laws have been fulfilled, completed, finished, no longer has power. And your comparison of Jesus judging us is not accurately compared to say you judging me or me judging you. Jesus IS the judge. Therefore he has all the right to judge us, since it is his duity. --------------------------------------------- None of that matters. You recognize and acknowledge the only thing that matters. The GOD of the Bible DID, at one time direct mortal men to judge each other and stone each other to death. If that would considered an immoral God today, then it would have also been an immoral God back then. So an immoral God is an immoral God. Period. The idea that he might have changed his mind later doesn't excuse such horrible behavior in the past. Yes before Jesus walked the earth, you were judged by your pears. But now that Jesus has come to earth and walked in the feet of a human he is now the judge. And as him becoming our judge that has relinquished our right to judge other for now there is a judge. For further detail refer to first column. That's baloney. Jesus taught no such thing. In fact, the gospels have Jesus claiming that he did NOT come to judge the Earth. John.12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. What part of "For I came not to judge the world" do you not understand? And if you come back with a biblical verse that claims to have Jesus proclaiming that he is the "judge" of the world, then you will have just revealed yet another blatant contradiction in this fable! In fact, if you can find a verse where Jesus claims to be the judge of humans, then you will have indeed proven that this fable is a fraud, because I just showed above where this fable has Jesus claiming that he did not come to judge the world. This religion has so many contradictions in it, it makes my head spin! It's like an absurd merry-go-round. I dislike nothing about our father. I agree completely, as there was only a limited amount of population on earth it was sufficient to be judged by your peers. As the world became more populated and corrupt, we needed a middle man if you may........ Jesus. I refuse nothing. No God isn't all pretty, flowers, butterfly's, ect. It's all serious straight forward. Disobey me and pay the consequence. Jesus did not come to judge us. So where do you get that Jesus is the judge? If this fable makes that claim then it's clearly in contradiction with John 12:47. "Disobey me and pay the consequence" That sounds like something those sick Hebrews would write, not an all-loving divine God. Besides, it would be impossible for me to disobey God, I never heard from God directly. So it's impossible for me to disobey God until he shows himself to me and makes a request of me. Only then could I disobey him/her/it. Refusing to believe that a bunch of Hebrews speak for God does not qualify as "disobeying" God. That very notion is an unintelligent notion. So unless you expect me to believe that God is unintelligent please don't suggest this silly notion anymore. You're insulting your "God" by suggesting that it's unintelligent. I realize that Jesus didn't come to earth to judge the earth, i never said that. When we leave this earth, Jesus will be the one to judge us. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me And many other verses point this out. Again, while Jesus was on earth he was not judging anyone. Jesus was here to teach us of the new covenant. And will be the judge his second coming. |
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I realize that Jesus didn't come to earth to judge the earth, i never said that. When we leave this earth, Jesus will be the one to judge us. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me And many other verses point this out. Again, while Jesus was on earth he was not judging anyone. Jesus was here to teach us of the new covenant. And will be the judge his second coming. Well, there are many problems with this idea. To begin with, according to this fable the 'second coming' had already occurred when Jesus resurrected as a Zombie. Supposedly he "came back" from the spirit world right there. So if you expect him to come back yet again, you need to be speaking about a "Third Coming". Moreover, according to Matthew, the guy who hears voices from the sky, the "judgment day" had already taken place when Jesus resurrected. Matthew 27: [50] Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. [51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; [52] And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. So if you accept Matthew's version of this fable the "Judgment day" that you're hoping for has already come and gone. Jesus was already judging people to be "Saints" and resurrecting them at that time, according to Matthew. If you can believe this twisted convoluted mythology at all, you have to consider Matthew's version of it too. Also, all the authors of the gospels seem to agree that Jesus said the following: Matt.24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Mark.13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Luke.21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. If you can trust these people to speak for Jesus and you worship the words of Jesus to be absolute truth, then it's clear that Jesus was going around telling people directly that everything he was preaching would occur before their generation had passed. Put that together with Matthew's account of Saints being raised from their graves when Jesus was resurrected, and you've got your "Judgment Day" right there. Moreover, if you pay close attention to this fable you'll see notice two things. First, Jesus said that only very few would make it into the Kingdom of God, and secondly that he said that when the rapture occurs one person will be taken and the other would be left behind (not destroyed). Two in the field, one taken the other left in the field, etc. So putting all of that together, there's really no reason at all to believe that any "Third Coming" is necessary. Jesus already "came back" from the dead once during his resurrection, that would be his "second coming" since the his first coming was being born. According to Matthew graves were open, the 'saints' were raised, and they went into the holy city (probably to collect the few living saints who would also be "saved") All the rest were left behind just as Jesus had proclaimed. So there you have it. Judgment day has come and gone in the Generation in which Jesus, just as he had promised it would. At best, we are the decedents of the rejects. We have no hope of being "saved". Jesus isn't going to come back for a third time. He was already here and took the few people he was interested in. So your out of luck with this fable my friend. Even if the fable were real you're too late. You're just a decedent of the rejects. We have been cast into the "Lake of Fire". Science has already told us that our sun will eventually expand to incinerate the Earth. And our hope at traveling to the stars is pretty dismal. So our fate has been sealed. See you in hell brother!  There's no escape now. We missed it according to this fable. We simply weren't alive when God was collecting his saints. The idea that he's coming back now is a pipe dream and has no basis in the Biblical myth. |
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I realize that Jesus didn't come to earth to judge the earth, i never said that. When we leave this earth, Jesus will be the one to judge us. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me And many other verses point this out. Again, while Jesus was on earth he was not judging anyone. Jesus was here to teach us of the new covenant. And will be the judge his second coming. Well, there are many problems with this idea. To begin with, according to this fable the 'second coming' had already occurred when Jesus resurrected as a Zombie. Supposedly he "came back" from the spirit world right there. So if you expect him to come back yet again, you need to be speaking about a "Third Coming". Moreover, according to Matthew, the guy who hears voices from the sky, the "judgment day" had already taken place when Jesus resurrected. Matthew 27: [50] Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. [51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; [52] And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. So if you accept Matthew's version of this fable the "Judgment day" that you're hoping for has already come and gone. Jesus was already judging people to be "Saints" and resurrecting them at that time, according to Matthew. If you can believe this twisted convoluted mythology at all, you have to consider Matthew's version of it too. Also, all the authors of the gospels seem to agree that Jesus said the following: Matt.24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Mark.13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Luke.21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. If you can trust these people to speak for Jesus and you worship the words of Jesus to be absolute truth, then it's clear that Jesus was going around telling people directly that everything he was preaching would occur before their generation had passed. Put that together with Matthew's account of Saints being raised from their graves when Jesus was resurrected, and you've got your "Judgment Day" right there. Moreover, if you pay close attention to this fable you'll see notice two things. First, Jesus said that only very few would make it into the Kingdom of God, and secondly that he said that when the rapture occurs one person will be taken and the other would be left behind (not destroyed). Two in the field, one taken the other left in the field, etc. So putting all of that together, there's really no reason at all to believe that any "Third Coming" is necessary. Jesus already "came back" from the dead once during his resurrection, that would be his "second coming" since the his first coming was being born. According to Matthew graves were open, the 'saints' were raised, and they went into the holy city (probably to collect the few living saints who would also be "saved") All the rest were left behind just as Jesus had proclaimed. So there you have it. Judgment day has come and gone in the Generation in which Jesus, just as he had promised it would. At best, we are the decedents of the rejects. We have no hope of being "saved". Jesus isn't going to come back for a third time. He was already here and took the few people he was interested in. So your out of luck with this fable my friend. Even if the fable were real you're too late. You're just a decedent of the rejects. We have been cast into the "Lake of Fire". Science has already told us that our sun will eventually expand to incinerate the Earth. And our hope at traveling to the stars is pretty dismal. So our fate has been sealed. See you in hell brother! There's no escape now. We missed it according to this fable. We simply weren't alive when God was collecting his saints. The idea that he's coming back now is a pipe dream and has no basis in the Biblical myth. That was not the second coming for Jesus never left. When Jesus passed away on the cross he didn't leave. If you'll notice when it speaks of his resurrection it never says he come back from heaven for he never left. And secondly, who's to say we aren't in the generation Jesus was speaking of? Who's to say what we think of a "generation" isn't what Jesus was refering. A generation on earth is my dad's generation, then mine, then will be my kids generation. How do you know Jesus and God doesn't plan to do this again? Yes there's no referance to it in the bible but that would be because that is irrelevant to us, it is not our need to know God's total goal. What i'm getting at is perhaps after we leave this world God will renew it and start over again, then we were the first generation and the second group God makes would be the second generation and so on. |
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It's not the fact that his physical body died. It's that Jesus SACRIFICED his life for us. His every waking second of life was for us in one way or other. He taught us of God's law and new covenant. Jesus helped many of people along the way of his life, he healed the blind among many other miracles. HE LIVED FOR US, he didn't live for himself and maybe a couple other people, he lived for ALL OF US, his every waking second was given to us. Where do you get this idea? It certainly doesn't come from the Bible. According to the Bible Jesus argued with the Scribes and Pharisees when he was about 12 years old and then wasn't seen or heard from again until he was almost 30. At best he only had a few years of actual preaching before he threw his temper tantrum overturning money tables. A lot of people, including myself, believe that during Jesus' "missing years" he actually traveled to India and became a Mahayana Buddhist Monk. In fact, in Mahayana Buddhism it was quite common for the monasteries to refuse to take in student unless they first vowed to become a Bodhisattva after their enlightenment. Moreover, all Bodhisattvas would indeed dedicate the rest of their lives to helping others reach nirvana. So Jesus was not at all unique in this quest. This is a very common quest of all Bodhisattvas. This is the way of Mahayana Buddhism. And at the end of it, no matter how much love Jesus showed the world, through teachings and or healing, man still stuck him on that cross. How discusting is that? Exactly, crucifying Jesus was indeed disgusting. This is why I personally refuse to condone it. You may not realize this but if you condone having Jesus crucified to pay for your sins then you may as well nail him to the pole yourself, because you're accepting that act in your name. I refuse it. Period. If I were living back then I would have done everything in my power to prevent the crucifixion. Although, in truth I think the best way to have prevented it would have been to simply tell Jesus to quit calling the Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites, and to heed his own teachings and turn the other cheek instead of throwing a public temper tantrum overturning the money tables. Jesus brought on his own demise through his own actions. There was no need for Jesus to call sit around ranting about how the Scribes and Pharisees where hypocrites. He could have just stuck to preaching his own values and simply refrained from passing judgments on other people (again violating his very own teachings). He simply didn't practice what he preached. He was far from perfect, and he made some serious mistake. He probably thought he could get away with it, and certainly never dreamed that he would be crucified. In fact, Pilot himself exonerated Jesus, even according to the gospels. It was the angry mob (probably incited by the Scribes and Pharisees who were angered by Jesus' hypocritical ranting about them being hypocrites) that got Jesus crucified. But you're right. The fact that Jesus was crucified is indeed a disgusting thing. Therefore you obviously "don't" accept it. You reject having Jesus crucified for YOUR SAKE! So technically, you refuse the very thing that you're supposed to be accepting for YOUR SAKE. I absolutely no not accept or condone having Jesus (or anyone else) nailed to a pole to "pay" for my sins. Therefore this mythology wouldn't work for me even if it were true. This Biblical God would have locked me out of his heaven forever, because he would have demanded that I condone something that I refuse to condone and will never condone. If you aren't willing to nail Jesus to the pole to save your own butt, then you do not accept the crucifixion of Jesus for YOUR SAKE. That's the oxymoronic problem with this religion. It's far better to just realize that Jesus himself was basically rejecting the horrible teachings of the Old Testament, and instead he was trying to get people to see the love and wisdom of the philosophy of Mahayana Buddhism. He was brutally killed for his efforts, and then not only nailed to the pole, but via the writings of the authors of the New Testament, he was also "nailed" to the very doctrine of whose teachings he rejected - the Old Testament! Christians use Jesus to prop up the teachings of the very dogma that Jesus himself refuted. So clearly you think the crucifixion of Jesus is disgusting too, and I'm willing to bet that you would not take part in that crucifixion or condone it in any way. And if that's true, then it's silly for you to claim that you accept the Crucifixion of Christ as payment for your sins. Because clearly you don't. By your own admission you think it's disgusting. I do too, and that's why I refuse to accept it. Even if I thought it was true, I'd still have to reject the offer. So the religion doesn't work for me either as a fable or as truth. And It's certainly not something that I would want to place "Faith" in. If it is true it's going to have to be proven to me, and we all know that the only way to do that is to have some Zeus-like godhead appear in the sky and angrily shout down to us, "Yes! I'm really that sick! And if you don't love me I'll have you nailed to a pole too!" Then we'd know the TRUTH. But until that happens, I prefer to place my "faith" in the belief that it's all just a really sick rumor and that Jesus was most likely a Mahayana Buddhist who made some mistakes. He was basically crucified by the very Scribes and Pharisees that he continually publically instulted and called hypocrites. He shouldn't have gone down that path. He should have refrained from judging others, just as he himself had preached. All he had to do was practice what he preached and he would have been fine. ================================== Jesus brought on his own demise through his own actions. There was no need for Jesus to call sit around ranting about how the Scribes and Pharisees where hypocrites. He could have just stuck to preaching his own values and simply refrained from passing judgments on other people (again violating his very own teachings). He simply didn't practice what he preached. ================================== Yes that is where he sacrificed himself. He knew that his teachings would get him crucified, but he did it nevertheless for us. To give us the word no matter what the consequence would be. |
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How do you know Jesus and God doesn't plan to do this again? That's a very good question, and your shouldn't limit this to one-way in time. If God is eternal, then not only will he be doing this again, but he would have also already done it infinitely many times in the past. You'd think he would have enough "Obedient Servants" by now in his heaven! What does he do with all these 'souls' who can never themselves become "Gods" in their own right? Just how man obedient servants does this God need to satisfy his craving to rule over people? When you bring questions like this up they only serve to show precisely how truly ridiculous and absurd the biblical myth truly is. This entire way of thinking is dependent upon a personified egotistical Godhead who basically raises humans as pets who must obey his every command and whim or suffer the consequences of displeasing him. Also even after infinitely many tries he still can't create a decent "generation" of humans. This is basically a picture of a God who raises humans as pets. Like a human might keep fish in an aquarium. Just flush the fish you aren't interested in down the toilet, and keep the ones you like. That's your God. He doesn't care about you at all. All he cares about is pleasing himself. This is why the Eastern Mystical picture of spirituality makes far more sense to me. But I confess, it's a highly intellectual picture and not easy to convey, especially to someone who might not even be remotely interested in believing it. |
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