So you brush off intellectual knowledge that has been gained from years of painstaking observations, and instead place your faith in a myth of an male-chauvinistic Godhead who hates heathens?

And why the Abrahamic religion? Not not believe in Zeus? Why not believe in Thor? Why not believe in Odin?

There are a myriad of reasons to believe why these ancient fables are clearly unwise man-made baloney and no good reason to believe any of it.

YET you are prepared to renounce sound scientific knowledge in favor of a religious mythology of a bloodthirsty Godhead who is appeased by having someone nailed to a pole?

Hey! MORE POWER TO YOU!

But please, don't think I'm going to stand by whilst you try to convince other people on this Planet to buy into such an insane idea.

I have to live on this planet too! And I'm really not interested in having to live with a bunch of people who are obsessed with bloodthirsty jealous god-heads who are so nasty that they have their own children nailed to poles.

And then they use this mythology to RENOUNCE science as being mere meaningless "theories"?

Please, you can't be serious?

They also use these religions to renounce other religions that are based on the very same basic folklore?

Please, give me a BREAK!

These religions can only lead to war and hostility. Even Christians can't get along. The Catholics and Protestants have been exhibiting hatred toward each other for eons. If the whole world were convinced that Christianity was true, that would only be just the Start of the real "holy wars".

Let's move past these false fables of jealous Godheads who are appeased by having 'sins' paid for via bloody gory means. That's just sick. There's nothing godly or divine about it.

You have all the right to believe that.

You're stuck on what seems gory to you for you have that predetermined before you read what's in the bible. You don't read it with an open mind, you already have your mind made up as you're reading it. You're eyes will only see what you're mind wants them to see. And you have premade thoughts of the bible being evil, so therefore that's all the evidence and incidents you'll see.

And that's why as the world became more populated it was needed for Jesus to come and to give his life up for us. Because their simply wouldn't be enough animals or things of that nature to sacrifice for the trillions of people on earth as of now.

we can squash the notion that anyone, christian or non , can determine who God has or hasnt 'let in' from these modern times,,,

Im not sure where that part of the debate even came in as I have NEVER heard a pastor or religious official make such a definitive claim

at funerals the pastor usually invokes Gods forgiveness in prayer that the sould be 'let in',, but I have certainly never been told by any Christian that Ghandi or Dahmer were or werent in heaven with God

its Gods decision is all I have EVER been told

and a sinner who repents has all the opportunity to see God as anyone else,,,but it will still be Gods decision

You have all the right to believe that.

You're stuck on what seems gory to you for you have that predetermined before you read what's in the bible. You don't read it with an open mind, you already have your mind made up as you're reading it. You're eyes will only see what you're mind wants them to see. And you have premade thoughts of the bible being evil, so therefore that's all the evidence and incidents you'll see.

Oh PLEASE!

You've got to be kidding!

It's a FACT that the Bible is full of gory tales. There can be no question about it. If you don't thing that what happened to Job is "Gory" then I question your sanity.

The Great Flood wasn't "gory"?

Having God's followers murder every man woman and child of the Canaanites wasn't "gory".

Having Jesus nailed to a pole to pay for the sins of mankind isn't "gory"?

This book is all about a God who solves almost all of his problems using totally ignorant and gory methods that don't represent anymore wisdom than I'd expect to see from a barroom drunkard.

And what does all this gore lead to?

It leads to people like you. Religious fanatics who renounce sound scientific knowledge in favor of gory folklore.

And that's a perfect example of why these religions are destructive to humanity as a whole. People worship totally unverifiable absurd gory stories over the intellectual pursuit of TRUTH!

And they use those absurd stories to perpetuate religious intolerance, and intellectual ignorance.

What good can possibly come from that?

That just holds humanity in the "Dark Ages".

Our father specifically says the only reward for sin is death.

He says what good can come of it lol. If EVERYONE followed God's word as it says, then their would be no more crime of any sort, no more pain from other people. EVERYONE would love one another and treat each other better then they treat themselves as the bible tells us to do.

In that case, the father lied, because Noah and his family didn't die in the flood.



A Muslim will tell you the same thing of Islam.

A Jew will tell you the same thing of Judaism.

In fact, if you follow the teachings of Buddha you won't be able to commit a "crime" either. Buddha teaches "right action", therefore if you commit what you consider to be a "wrong action" then you aren't following Buddhism.

If you follow Wicca you won't be able to commit a crime either unless you lie to yourself.

In fact, if you follow me you won't be able to commit a crime either. You'd have to do something other than the things I do in order to commit a crime as well.

So I'm not impressed. We don't need fables of angry judgmental Gods in order to know how to live good lives. It just isn't necessary.

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In that case, the father lied, because Noah and his family didn't die in the flood.
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How do you know of such? When forgiven of a sin, it is written off as you never did such an action. How do you know Noah and his family hadn't asked for forgiveness, repented from such actions and at that time of life was then sinless? How do you know of such, and who are you to judge?
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So I'm not impressed. We don't need fables of angry judgmental Gods in order to know how to live good lives. It just isn't necessary.
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No we do not NEED our father to know how to live good lives, just alot tah most people don't live good lives on their own, thus our Father sets out laws before us so that these people will know that their actions are in the wrong.

But that would fly in the face of your need for Jesus. If your original God could just forgive sins at his own whim then the whole Jesus myth becomes moot.

Like I say, you can't make this fable make any sense because it makes no sense. You need Jesus in order for God to be able to forgive you, REMEMBER? Or did you forget that already?



I disagree. IMHO, a bunch of bigoted male-chauvinistic pigs set up those bigoted laws. I personally don't believe that any genuine loving entity would renounce love in any form. Thus the mere fact that those hateful Hebrews renounced same-gender love in the name of God proves to me that their fable is clearly lies.

That's my opinion and view. So why should I follow a bunch of male-chauvinistic bigots?

Why should I believe that our creator would favor those nasty Hebrews as his "chosen people". The very idea that our creator plays favorites is already an insane idea as far as I'm concerned.

Like I say, there is no good reason to believe that the ancient male-chauvinistic Hebrews speak for our creator. On the contrary there are a myriad of good reasons to believe that those idiots speak only for themselves.

I see no reason to worship a bunch of male-chauvinistic bigots as the "Voice of God"

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But that would fly in the face of your need for Jesus. If your original God could just forgive sins at his own whim then the whole Jesus myth becomes moot.

Like I say, you can't make this fable make any sense because it makes no sense. You need Jesus in order for God to be able to forgive you, REMEMBER? Or did you forget that already?
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Before Jesus came to earth, that's exactly how they were forgiven. By asking for forgiveness and showing their sincerity by sacrificing something important and needed. At that time their was no need to believe Jesus was the only begotten son of God, for Jesus had not walked the earth at that time.
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I disagree. IMHO, a bunch of bigoted male-chauvinistic pigs set up those bigoted laws. I personally don't believe that any genuine loving entity would renounce love in any form. Thus the mere fact that those hateful Hebrews renounced same-gender love in the name of God proves to me that their fable is clearly lies.
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Our father didn't renounce same gender love, heck i love you and everyone in the world. That is why i spend countless hours of my day on here. Love and sex have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. God has only said it was wrong to have sexual relations with the same gender. Again, sex and love have NOTHING to do with one another.

Our father didn't renounce same gender love, heck i love you and everyone in the world. That is why i spend countless hours of my day on here. Love and sex have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. God has only said it was wrong to have sexual relations with the same gender. Again, sex and love have NOTHING to do with one another.

If you sincerely believe this then there's nothing at all wrong with same-gender marriage, because there's nothing implicit about marriage that requires sex either.

Kissing and showing public affection is also not sex.

In fact, if you want to get truly technical about it, it's impossible for two people of the same gender to even have "sex".

The only way you could have that is if you "define" sex in a way that is inconsistent with the act of procreation.

So the whole sex thing with the Bible is an absurdity in and of itself. It's simply impossible for two people of the same gender to even have "sex". Any idea of "sex" in that regard can only be a man-made idea.

There is nothing such as same sex marriage.
Genersis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh

Notice, a MAN shall leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his WIFE: and they shall be one flesh.

Does NOT say a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his husband.

So?

All you're doing is quoting ancient Hebrew folklore and trying to pass that off as the "Word of God".

It's not the word of any God.

Who cares what the Hebrews have to say? They don't speak for anyone but themselves. I have already shown countless examples of why their mythology cannot be true. And you even helped to prove this yourself with your observation that the "death" to pay for sins clearly had to be a "spiritual Death" and not a mere physical death.

Well, that rules out Jesus as having "paid" for the sins of anyone since he didn't die spiritually. So you've already shown yourself why Christianity makes no sense.

You have nowhere left to turn in this ancient folklore but back to pure Judaism or Islam, because you've shown why Christianity makes no sense at all.

We have not shown that it's false nor have i helped with showing as such. Jesus sacrificed his life for us........ died a physical death, went through the pain and agony physically and emotionally seeing his children do this to him.

Well, technically we have shown that the mythology doesn't add up. As you continually pointed out the only reward for sin is death. And you've also recognized that this death must necessarily be a spiritual death.

Thus, the fact that Jesus died merely a physical death and and went through pain and agony would be a moot point. Physical death isn't worth anything in terms of sin and can't pay the wages for sin.

Pain and agony have never been associate with paying for sins. So that's not even worth mentioning.

Jesus could have died in his sleep if death is all that's required. But even then he could never wake up again as a living spirit or his payment for sin would have bounced.

Jesus is supposedly lives eternally. Not only is he said to live eternally, but he'll also supposedly become the King of Kings and Lord of Lords over all mankind. That doesn't even come close to spiritual death, that's a greater prize than any human can even dream of!

So the claims that Jesus was a sacrificial lamb of God sent to pay for the sins of man is clearly a bogus claim. It doesn't make any sense. Jesus didn't die spiritually and never will according to this mythology. So the entire myth is a contradiction in terms and must be recognized to be pure fiction (and poorly written fiction at that).

Of course, that doesn't mean that the man named Jesus never lived. I imagine he mostly likely did live, teach the moral values of the Eastern Mystics, and was crucified for his rejection of the teachings in the "Old Testament".

Jesus even spoke about being "born again". But there's nothing about being "born again" in the Old Testament. That idea is clearly an idea of the Eastern Mystics, not of the Torah. It's the idea of "enlightenment". .

But Jesus as the "sacrificial lamb" of Yahweh who died to pay for the sins of mankind? Nope. It doesn't fly. It's clearly just another poorly written mythology.