You have all the right to believe that.

You're stuck on what seems gory to you for you have that predetermined before you read what's in the bible. You don't read it with an open mind, you already have your mind made up as you're reading it. You're eyes will only see what you're mind wants them to see. And you have premade thoughts of the bible being evil, so therefore that's all the evidence and incidents you'll see.

falls into the category of mind over matter.

For instance, if you go with in your mind that some food is going to taste nasty, when you eat it, that food either will be or won't be as good as it is to someone else.

Same difference, it's all about where your state of mind on that subject is.

But these kinds of "explanations" are no explanation at all.

If you truly believe that our creator is "All-powerful" and "All-wise" and that with God all things are possible, then this idea that God created beings on a small planet that was going to run out of space and resources makes no sense at all.

In order to believe your "excuses" for this mythology I must also believe that God is totally unwise and ill-prepared to deal with his very own creation.

Just look at how far I have to continue to "bend over backwards" to continue to put band-aides on this mythology just to try to keep it afloat.

And for what purpose?

To be perfectly honest with you I think it would be GREAT if its all totally false anyway. If it's false that means that mankind is not responsible for bring sin and death into the world. That means that we're not at odds with our creator and in dire need of "repentance" to avoid his ugly wrath. And it also means that Jesus wasn't cruicified "to pay for our sins".

Well, surely even you would have to agree that all of this would be GREAT!

So there's GOOD REASONS to reject the fable, and NO GOOD REASONS to believe in it.

So why even bother placing "faith" in such a ridiculous story in the first place?

That's what I would like to know.

What is the incentive to even want to believe in such a gory tale?

Well, as they said on The X Files, "The Truth Is Out There." All you have to do is Google up "Jeffrey Dahmer saved" and read all the direct quotes from Christians and clergy that are diametrically opposed to your viewpoint on the salvation of Dahmer and those like him.

Then Google up "Apostle Paul murder" for the reason they probably believe as they do. Even the Bible insinuated that before his conversion, Paul was guilty of murder during his persecution of Christians and the early church.

So the legend is handed down: "The power of Jesus is such that he can save even these vile people."

-Kerry O.

Oh PLEASE!

You've got to be kidding!

It's a FACT that the Bible is full of gory tales. There can be no question about it. If you don't thing that what happened to Job is "Gory" then I question your sanity.

The Great Flood wasn't "gory"?

Having God's followers murder every man woman and child of the Canaanites wasn't "gory".

Having Jesus nailed to a pole to pay for the sins of mankind isn't "gory"?

This book is all about a God who solves almost all of his problems using totally ignorant and gory methods that don't represent anymore wisdom than I'd expect to see from a barroom drunkard.

And what does all this gore lead to?

It leads to people like you. Religious fanatics who renounce sound scientific knowledge in favor of gory folklore.

And that's a perfect example of why these religions are destructive to humanity as a whole. People worship totally unverifiable absurd gory stories over the intellectual pursuit of TRUTH!

And they use those absurd stories to perpetuate religious intolerance, and intellectual ignorance.

What good can possibly come from that?

That just holds humanity in the "Dark Ages".

It's not gory, it's the truth. It's not all flowered up and tried to make look pretty. It tells the truth straight up.

And the flood wasn't gory when you think about it, our father specifically says the only reward for sin is death. So it's only obvious and should be known ahead of time that things like this will happen.

He says what good can come of it lol. If EVERYONE followed God's word as it says, then their would be no more crime of any sort, no more pain from other people. EVERYONE would love one another and treat each other better then they treat themselves as the bible tells us to do.

In that case, the father lied, because Noah and his family didn't die in the flood.



A Muslim will tell you the same thing of Islam.

A Jew will tell you the same thing of Judaism.

In fact, if you follow the teachings of Buddha you won't be able to commit a "crime" either. Buddha teaches "right action", therefore if you commit what you consider to be a "wrong action" then you aren't following Buddhism.

If you follow Wicca you won't be able to commit a crime either unless you lie to yourself.

In fact, if you follow me you won't be able to commit a crime either. You'd have to do something other than the things I do in order to commit a crime as well.

So I'm not impressed. We don't need fables of angry judgmental Gods in order to know how to live good lives. It just isn't necessary.

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In that case, the father lied, because Noah and his family didn't die in the flood.
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How do you know of such? When forgiven of a sin, it is written off as you never did such an action. How do you know Noah and his family hadn't asked for forgiveness, repented from such actions and at that time of life was then sinless? How do you know of such, and who are you to judge?
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So I'm not impressed. We don't need fables of angry judgmental Gods in order to know how to live good lives. It just isn't necessary.
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No we do not NEED our father to know how to live good lives, just alot tah most people don't live good lives on their own, thus our Father sets out laws before us so that these people will know that their actions are in the wrong.

But that would fly in the face of your need for Jesus. If your original God could just forgive sins at his own whim then the whole Jesus myth becomes moot.

Like I say, you can't make this fable make any sense because it makes no sense. You need Jesus in order for God to be able to forgive you, REMEMBER? Or did you forget that already?



I disagree. IMHO, a bunch of bigoted male-chauvinistic pigs set up those bigoted laws. I personally don't believe that any genuine loving entity would renounce love in any form. Thus the mere fact that those hateful Hebrews renounced same-gender love in the name of God proves to me that their fable is clearly lies.

That's my opinion and view. So why should I follow a bunch of male-chauvinistic bigots?

Why should I believe that our creator would favor those nasty Hebrews as his "chosen people". The very idea that our creator plays favorites is already an insane idea as far as I'm concerned.

Like I say, there is no good reason to believe that the ancient male-chauvinistic Hebrews speak for our creator. On the contrary there are a myriad of good reasons to believe that those idiots speak only for themselves.

I see no reason to worship a bunch of male-chauvinistic bigots as the "Voice of God"

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But that would fly in the face of your need for Jesus. If your original God could just forgive sins at his own whim then the whole Jesus myth becomes moot.

Like I say, you can't make this fable make any sense because it makes no sense. You need Jesus in order for God to be able to forgive you, REMEMBER? Or did you forget that already?
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Before Jesus came to earth, that's exactly how they were forgiven. By asking for forgiveness and showing their sincerity by sacrificing something important and needed. At that time their was no need to believe Jesus was the only begotten son of God, for Jesus had not walked the earth at that time.
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I disagree. IMHO, a bunch of bigoted male-chauvinistic pigs set up those bigoted laws. I personally don't believe that any genuine loving entity would renounce love in any form. Thus the mere fact that those hateful Hebrews renounced same-gender love in the name of God proves to me that their fable is clearly lies.
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Our father didn't renounce same gender love, heck i love you and everyone in the world. That is why i spend countless hours of my day on here. Love and sex have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. God has only said it was wrong to have sexual relations with the same gender. Again, sex and love have NOTHING to do with one another.

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Mark 12:31
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
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This is not telling someone to have sex with their neighbour.

If you sincerely believe this then there's nothing at all wrong with same-gender marriage, because there's nothing implicit about marriage that requires sex either.

Kissing and showing public affection is also not sex.

In fact, if you want to get truly technical about it, it's impossible for two people of the same gender to even have "sex".

The only way you could have that is if you "define" sex in a way that is inconsistent with the act of procreation.

So the whole sex thing with the Bible is an absurdity in and of itself. It's simply impossible for two people of the same gender to even have "sex". Any idea of "sex" in that regard can only be a man-made idea.

Romans 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.


I personally dont believe the term NATURAL refers only to what is physically possible or the point would be invalid


we all take what we will from this verse,,, as hard as it is to conceive of, the male female bonding that is the example of marriage was a way for people to commit to one person and avoid multiple lustful relationships or a lustfilled life

we were given to have one partner with which to explore our feelings and that was created of the opposite sex

LOVE is another issue which also should be a part of that bond

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her; 26 that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she should be holy and blameless.

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# sexual activity: activities associated with sexual intercourse; "they had sex in the back seat"
# either of the two categories (male or female) into which most organisms are divided; "the war between the sexes"
# arouse: stimulate sexually; "This movie usually arouses the male audience"
# all of the feelings resulting from the urge to gratify sexual impulses; "he wanted a better sex life"; "the film contained no sex or violence"
# tell the sex (of young chickens)
# the properties that distinguish organisms on the basis of their reproductive roles; "she didn't want to know the sex of the foetus"
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It is not impossible for same genders to have sex. Sex is sex my friend, it is sexual intercourse. Has NOTHING to do with procreation. Yes that is what sex is for, but that is not sex in itself. That is only the intent of the action *sexual intercourse*. But sexual intercourse in itself has nothing to do with procreation.

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If you sincerely believe this then there's nothing at all wrong with same-gender marriage, because there's nothing implicit about marriage that requires sex either.
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There is nothing such as same sex marriage.
Genersis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh

Notice, a MAN shall leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his WIFE: and they shall be one flesh.

Does NOT say a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his husband.

So?

All you're doing is quoting ancient Hebrew folklore and trying to pass that off as the "Word of God".

It's not the word of any God.

Who cares what the Hebrews have to say? They don't speak for anyone but themselves. I have already shown countless examples of why their mythology cannot be true. And you even helped to prove this yourself with your observation that the "death" to pay for sins clearly had to be a "spiritual Death" and not a mere physical death.

Well, that rules out Jesus as having "paid" for the sins of anyone since he didn't die spiritually. So you've already shown yourself why Christianity makes no sense.

You have nowhere left to turn in this ancient folklore but back to pure Judaism or Islam, because you've shown why Christianity makes no sense at all.

We have not shown that it's false nor have i helped with showing as such. Jesus sacrificed his life for us........ died a physical death, went through the pain and agony physically and emotionally seeing his children do this to him.

Jesus sacrificed his life for us, thus becoming the ultimate sacrifice. And with that, we no long have to sacrifice anything for sins, for Jesus was the ultimate sacrificed for all our sins. So with that having been down, now all you have to do is believe in Jesus, love him with all your heart mind and soul, and try your best not to sin. And when you stumble in life from time to time, Jesus is their to pick you back up on your feet and get'n you walk'n straight again.

Well, technically we have shown that the mythology doesn't add up. As you continually pointed out the only reward for sin is death. And you've also recognized that this death must necessarily be a spiritual death.

Thus, the fact that Jesus died merely a physical death and and went through pain and agony would be a moot point. Physical death isn't worth anything in terms of sin and can't pay the wages for sin.

Pain and agony have never been associate with paying for sins. So that's not even worth mentioning.

Jesus could have died in his sleep if death is all that's required. But even then he could never wake up again as a living spirit or his payment for sin would have bounced.

Jesus is supposedly lives eternally. Not only is he said to live eternally, but he'll also supposedly become the King of Kings and Lord of Lords over all mankind. That doesn't even come close to spiritual death, that's a greater prize than any human can even dream of!

So the claims that Jesus was a sacrificial lamb of God sent to pay for the sins of man is clearly a bogus claim. It doesn't make any sense. Jesus didn't die spiritually and never will according to this mythology. So the entire myth is a contradiction in terms and must be recognized to be pure fiction (and poorly written fiction at that).

Of course, that doesn't mean that the man named Jesus never lived. I imagine he mostly likely did live, teach the moral values of the Eastern Mystics, and was crucified for his rejection of the teachings in the "Old Testament".

Jesus even spoke about being "born again". But there's nothing about being "born again" in the Old Testament. That idea is clearly an idea of the Eastern Mystics, not of the Torah. It's the idea of "enlightenment". .

But Jesus as the "sacrificial lamb" of Yahweh who died to pay for the sins of mankind? Nope. It doesn't fly. It's clearly just another poorly written mythology.

It's not the fact that his physical body died. It's that Jesus SACRIFICED his life for us. His every waking second of life was for us in one way or other. He taught us of God's law and new covenant. Jesus helped many of people along the way of his life, he healed the blind among many other miracles. HE LIVED FOR US, he didn't live for himself and maybe a couple other people, he lived for ALL OF US, his every waking second was given to us. And at the end of it, no matter how much love Jesus showed the world, through teachings and or healing, man still stuck him on that cross. How discusting is that?