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| Topic: People in America and europe the Worst sinners .. | |
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Angry Jesus  Rambo Jesus  A.K.A. Kill Bill Jesus Oh man I hope this does not piss off the mods. if it does please just delete this image but I found it on the internet... Jesus when he is pissed off!  And lastly Buddy Jesus!  Jesus is out to get you! It is so bad even the Easter Bunny hates me! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhzGSQwVa9I |
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Great!!
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I actually had a conversation with a Christian and brought up the whole need of a church by Jesus's own teachings. I asked him why would I need the death of another man to absolve me of sins I never committed. Especially if I choose to live a good life and to try to walk among my fellow man with grace. In the Church's own Dogma we are supposed to be born innocent and therefore now born sinful. We are however born of a supposed act of sin. But again how does the death of another man absolve anyone of acts they knowingly commit? I love it when people are left stunned in thought. Then I mentioned life under the ten commandments of Moses or the two commandments of Jesus. I love leaving people with questions some minister is going to have to answer. I met him before too. Interesting fellow. I am sure he knows of me and my "eccentric" views on life and God. I am putting up the good fight for truth! Yes, we are BORN innocent. We are innocent till we KNOW right from wrong. And it's not that a man died for us being the reason we are now forgiven for our sins. We are forgiven for our sins by showing remorse by sacrificing something important to us for doing the sin and repenting from such actions. That is why now since Jesus sacrificed his entire life from a little child to when he was crucified we are forgiven for our sins for just believing in Christ and trying to repent from sinful actions. |
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Uh-uh! The Church teaches the concept of "original sin" which means people, in this case Christians because they believe in sin, are born evil little chits full of sin. It's when they finally acknowledge Jesus as savior that they are "saved" and have a chance at heaven. That's why babies who died before being baptized where buried in unconsecrated ground. Those who died after baptism were allowed in the cemetary but floated in limbo because they didn't "know God", but were pretty safe until the final reckoning.
Sad thing to tell ones child, isn't it. |
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I was a very happy child. WE all were born in sin = we all will make moral mistakes.
nothing sad about the truth,, at least not to me |
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Uh-uh! The Church teaches the concept of "original sin" which means people, in this case Christians because they believe in sin, are born evil little chits full of sin. It's when they finally acknowledge Jesus as savior that they are "saved" and have a chance at heaven. That's why babies who died before being baptized where buried in unconsecrated ground. Those who died after baptism were allowed in the cemetary but floated in limbo because they didn't "know God", but were pretty safe until the final reckoning. Sad thing to tell ones child, isn't it. No, "THE CHURCH" does not teach this. Some churches may, but not all nor most. Jesus sacrificing his life so that we may be forgiven made original sin forgiven. There is an age of accountability as well. Before a child knows right from wrong or even has that mental capability they are innocent. |
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Uh-uh! The Church teaches the concept of "original sin" which means people, in this case Christians because they believe in sin, are born evil little chits full of sin. It's when they finally acknowledge Jesus as savior that they are "saved" and have a chance at heaven. That's why babies who died before being baptized where buried in unconsecrated ground. Those who died after baptism were allowed in the cemetary but floated in limbo because they didn't "know God", but were pretty safe until the final reckoning. Sad thing to tell ones child, isn't it. No, "THE CHURCH" does not teach this. Some churches may, but not all nor most. Jesus sacrificing his life so that we may be forgiven made original sin forgiven. There is an age of accountability as well. Before a child knows right from wrong or even has that mental capability they are innocent. It's sin what separates us from our Father. Infants haven't sinned therefore they are innocent. Because again the crucifixion of Jesus is a sacrifice for our father for our sins, including "original" sin. |
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I was a very happy child. WE all were born in sin = we all will make moral mistakes. nothing sad about the truth,, at least not to me That contradicts the "born innocent" comment GH made though. And GH, you really need to go read Catholicism. It's there, I've read it, seen it and dealt with it. |
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I was a very happy child. WE all were born in sin = we all will make moral mistakes. nothing sad about the truth,, at least not to me That contradicts the "born innocent" comment GH made though. And GH, you really need to go read Catholicism. It's there, I've read it, seen it and dealt with it. What she said and what i said had nothing to do with each other. Me = We are BORN innocent. Harmony = We are born IN sin. Ok if it's there i would appreciate if you give some information backed with verses from the NEW TESTAMENT that we are born with the original sin. |
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I was a very happy child. WE all were born in sin = we all will make moral mistakes. nothing sad about the truth,, at least not to me That contradicts the "born innocent" comment GH made though. And GH, you really need to go read Catholicism. It's there, I've read it, seen it and dealt with it. What she said and what i said had nothing to do with each other. Me = We are BORN innocent. Harmony = We are born IN sin. Ok if it's there i would appreciate if you give some information backed with verses from the NEW TESTAMENT that we are born with the original sin. Ephesians 2.1-3 is used by the Catholic Church for some of its reasoning on this. Paul with Romans 5:12-21, 1 Corinthians 15.22 Here is a Wiki info on it, for ease. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin |
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I was a very happy child. WE all were born in sin = we all will make moral mistakes. nothing sad about the truth,, at least not to me That contradicts the "born innocent" comment GH made though. And GH, you really need to go read Catholicism. It's there, I've read it, seen it and dealt with it. What she said and what i said had nothing to do with each other. Me = We are BORN innocent. Harmony = We are born IN sin. Ok if it's there i would appreciate if you give some information backed with verses from the NEW TESTAMENT that we are born with the original sin. Ephesians 2.1-3 is used by the Catholic Church for some of its reasoning on this. Paul with Romans 5:12-21, 1 Corinthians 15.22 Here is a Wiki info on it, for ease. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin Read a little further, 1Corinthians 15:20 - But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 - For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 - For as in Ad'am all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. ======================== Nottice it says "for as in ad'am all die.......... Even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Translated - If you follow after ad'am all die, if you follow after Christ you shall be made alive. ------------------------- Romans 5:12-21 12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. ---------------------- Notice the last couple verses. Specifically where it states "even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our lord." |
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I was a very happy child. WE all were born in sin = we all will make moral mistakes. nothing sad about the truth,, at least not to me That contradicts the "born innocent" comment GH made though. And GH, you really need to go read Catholicism. It's there, I've read it, seen it and dealt with it. What she said and what i said had nothing to do with each other. Me = We are BORN innocent. Harmony = We are born IN sin. Ok if it's there i would appreciate if you give some information backed with verses from the NEW TESTAMENT that we are born with the original sin. Ephesians 2.1-3 is used by the Catholic Church for some of its reasoning on this. Paul with Romans 5:12-21, 1 Corinthians 15.22 Here is a Wiki info on it, for ease. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin Read a little further, 1Corinthians 15:20 - But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 - For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 - For as in Ad'am all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. ======================== Nottice it says "for as in ad'am all die.......... Even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Translated - If you follow after ad'am all die, if you follow after Christ you shall be made alive. ------------------------- Romans 5:12-21 12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. ---------------------- Notice the last couple verses. Specifically where it states "even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our lord." So as you see Jesus has resolved the original sin, the babies automatically go to heaven. Also keep in mind when we pass away and judgement comes it's a JUDGEMENT, it's not a SENTENCING. And since the babies will have nothing to be judged on for they had not had the chance to do anything including learn about Jesus they will have nothing against them to be judged on. |
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1Corinthians 15:21 - For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. See this whole mythology is based on superstitions and false rumors that we now know are false. Death existed long before humankind appeared on this planet. Therefore we can take this entire mythology and cast it aside on the shelf marked "fiction" because we now know that it's based entirely on false information. The mythology is caught in its falsehoods. I've brought this up many times before, but people keep denying that death did not exist prior to man. But here you have Corinthians verifying this myth, "For since by man came death,... blah, blah, blah" Well, the premise has been proven to be wrong, so anything that follows is moot. This is clearly a man-made mythology that has no basis in fact. There are no Gods on Mt. Olympus, and death existed prior to the appearance of humans on this planet. Set this book right along side Greek Mythology and label it "Hebrew Mythology", and be done with it. It's clearly false. |
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1Corinthians 15:21 - For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. See this whole mythology is based on superstitions and false rumors that we now know are false. Death existed long before humankind appeared on this planet. Therefore we can take this entire mythology and cast it aside on the shelf marked "fiction" because we now know that it's based entirely on false information. The mythology is caught in its falsehoods. I've brought this up many times before, but people keep denying that death did not exist prior to man. But here you have Corinthians verifying this myth, "For since by man came death,... blah, blah, blah" Well, the premise has been proven to be wrong, so anything that follows is moot. This is clearly a man-made mythology that has no basis in fact. There are no Gods on Mt. Olympus, and death existed prior to the appearance of humans on this planet. Set this book right along side Greek Mythology and label it "Hebrew Mythology", and be done with it. It's clearly false. No still haven't caught anything. When the bible speaks of death, it's not talking about our physical bodies. You either receive the gift of heaven or die. EVERYONE of our bodies will die. These bodies aren't eternal. |
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1Corinthians 15:21 - For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. See this whole mythology is based on superstitions and false rumors that we now know are false. Death existed long before humankind appeared on this planet. Therefore we can take this entire mythology and cast it aside on the shelf marked "fiction" because we now know that it's based entirely on false information. The mythology is caught in its falsehoods. I've brought this up many times before, but people keep denying that death did not exist prior to man. But here you have Corinthians verifying this myth, "For since by man came death,... blah, blah, blah" Well, the premise has been proven to be wrong, so anything that follows is moot. This is clearly a man-made mythology that has no basis in fact. There are no Gods on Mt. Olympus, and death existed prior to the appearance of humans on this planet. Set this book right along side Greek Mythology and label it "Hebrew Mythology", and be done with it. It's clearly false. No still haven't caught anything. When the bible speaks of death, it's not talking about our physical bodies. You either receive the gift of heaven or die. EVERYONE of our bodies will die. These bodies aren't eternal. Sinning has nothing to do with the time of our existence on this earth. Again when the bible speaks of death it is referring to our souls, not our mortal bodies. |
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AGain, my religion, the bible I studied, gave no instruction on Dahmer or Gahndi(though Im sure religious and non religious alike have theories about where he might have ended up) How could it? It was purportedly written 2000 years before either man lived! The message is the same, though-- one can do horrible things and be absolved of their crimes against mortal humans by metaphorically kissing the ring of The One. And THAT _is_ in the Bible, in the story of the Crucifixion where the criminals crucified with Jesus were given absolution. Yet, law abiding people who have never harmed a soul are told "Unless thou believe, thou shalt surely die." The Problem of Evil will continue to plague the logic of revealed religions. -Kerry O. and Jesus himself was CRUCIFIED by those interpreting his actions to be against their beliefs but being that my religion doesnt worship the PEOPLE of the bible but instead Gods word and Jesus sacrifice Id say, I have not been taught by my religion not to question, , in fact, Jesus REGULARLY answered questions himself and dont recall him personally harming anyone for asking them. It is the heart with which one seeks knowledge that is the trouble, it is nowhere suggested in my bible that seeking knowledge is wrong only that MEN did (and still continue to) persecute people for not abiding by their own customs.... |
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we do die (our bodies) whether 'evil' or not
but with Jesus we might have everlasting life (our souls) |
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The origins of Original Sin are from the Catholic Church about 900 AD(?) based on a declaration of one of the popes. Purgatory is also purely Catholic too. There is no mention of it in the bible as is original sin not mentioned.
Since both were not part of the bible I think this tangent can die finally! Children are supposedly born in innocence. No one can figure out what the heck original sin is supposed to be. the original sin was God's when he made man and gave us free will! The original sin was God playing Cain against Able with his favoritism. God could have taught Cain the error of his ways instead of pissing on him all the time. THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL SIN! |
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No still haven't caught anything. When the bible speaks of death, it's not talking about our physical bodies. You either receive the gift of heaven or die. EVERYONE of our bodies will die. These bodies aren't eternal. But that doesn't work either because Jesus didn't die in spirit. So his so-called "death to pay for our sins" would be meaningless since he only died in body but his spirit supposedly lives on. No spiritual death = no payment for sins based on this interpretation. The whole mythology is just one contradiction after another, after another, endlessly. I've been through this many times. The mythology makes no sense, and cannot be made to make any sense. People like you who believe that you are making sense of it are simply missing the main points. I understand that it's important to you to believe that this mythology is true because you can't imagine having 'faith' in something that hadn't already been at least written down as a mythology. You see, I have no need for that at all. If you want to believe that there is a spiritual essence to life then just believe it. You don't need to assign that belief to any particular mythology. Also, if you want to believe in a truly wise and righteous God, then you'd be far better off dumping these ancient bigoted and male-chauvinistic religions. There's nothing righteous or wise about them. If you want to believe in a truly righteous and wise God then just imagine one in your mind. If God can't live up to your mere mortal imagination then this would be a failing on God's part, not yours. If you want to believe in a truly "Perfect" creator, then just do so. There's nothing perfect about idea of a creator who condemns people for not believing in an ugly male-chauvinistic mythology where God uses utterly stupid and violent means to deal with all his problems. The very idea of a God who is sick enough to be appeased by having his only begotten son nailed to a pole is more than enough to show that this mythology is far from representing any all-wise perfect Creator. There is no justification for such a sick and gory act by a supposedly all-wise and all-powerful God. That very act can be nothing more than an act of pure desperation by a God who can't do any better either intellectually or physically. Such a God would clearly be both powerless and unwise. So why insult your Creator by believing that such a gory horrible mythology might actually represent what the Creator is like? I wouldn't insult my Creator by even suggesting that these stories might reflect his or her "divine" nature. Why insult God by supporting such a sick mythology? I don't understand why you are so anxious to believe that God is like these ancient Hebrews claim. Why place your faith in THEM? They clearly didn't even agree with each other! Like I've always said, if I'm going to place faith in anything I'll place my faith in the idea that my Creator is far wiser than those ancient male-chauvinistic Hebrews. For me to lower myself to believe in the ancient Hebrew mythologies would be an insult to both myself and my Creator. Why would I want to do that? To believe in atheism would be a better compliment to God than to believe in the ancient Hebrew myths. |
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No still haven't caught anything. When the bible speaks of death, it's not talking about our physical bodies. You either receive the gift of heaven or die. EVERYONE of our bodies will die. These bodies aren't eternal. But that doesn't work either because Jesus didn't die in spirit. So his so-called "death to pay for our sins" would be meaningless since he only died in body but his spirit supposedly lives on. No spiritual death = no payment for sins based on this interpretation. The whole mythology is just one contradiction after another, after another, endlessly. I've been through this many times. The mythology makes no sense, and cannot be made to make any sense. People like you who believe that you are making sense of it are simply missing the main points. I understand that it's important to you to believe that this mythology is true because you can't imagine having 'faith' in something that hadn't already been at least written down as a mythology. You see, I have no need for that at all. If you want to believe that there is a spiritual essence to life then just believe it. You don't need to assign that belief to any particular mythology. Also, if you want to believe in a truly wise and righteous God, then you'd be far better off dumping these ancient bigoted and male-chauvinistic religions. There's nothing righteous or wise about them. If you want to believe in a truly righteous and wise God then just imagine one in your mind. If God can't live up to your mere mortal imagination then this would be a failing on God's part, not yours. If you want to believe in a truly "Perfect" creator, then just do so. There's nothing perfect about idea of a creator who condemns people for not believing in an ugly male-chauvinistic mythology where God uses utterly stupid and violent means to deal with all his problems. The very idea of a God who is sick enough to be appeased by having his only begotten son nailed to a pole is more than enough to show that this mythology is far from representing any all-wise perfect Creator. There is no justification for such a sick and gory act by a supposedly all-wise and all-powerful God. That very act can be nothing more than an act of pure desperation by a God who can't do any better either intellectually or physically. Such a God would clearly be both powerless and unwise. So why insult your Creator by believing that such a gory horrible mythology might actually represent what the Creator is like? I wouldn't insult my Creator by even suggesting that these stories might reflect his or her "divine" nature. Why insult God by supporting such a sick mythology? I don't understand why you are so anxious to believe that God is like these ancient Hebrews claim. Why place your faith in THEM? They clearly didn't even agree with each other! Like I've always said, if I'm going to place faith in anything I'll place my faith in the idea that my Creator is far wiser than those ancient male-chauvinistic Hebrews. For me to lower myself to believe in the ancient Hebrew mythologies would be an insult to both myself and my Creator. Why would I want to do that? To believe in atheism would be a better compliment to God than to believe in the ancient Hebrew myths. "But that doesn't work either because Jesus didn't die in spirit" -------------------------- Again there are two types of death. Death of the body and death of the soul. Because the only reward for sin is death, that doesn't mean if you lie you are going to drop over dead right then and there. God gives us time to repent of such actions. ==================================================== So his so-called "death to pay for our sins" would be meaningless since he only died in body but his spirit supposedly lives on. ----------------------------- No it's not pointless. Can you even begin to grasp the pain emotionally and physically Jesus went through for us during his crucification? Jesus didn't have to go through all that. He could have backed out at anytime, but no Jesus continued on his path of life doing our Fathers will. That is what he sacrificed, he gave his mortal body and life up for us so that we may have ever lasting life. ======================================================= If you want to believe in a truly "Perfect" creator, then just do so. There's nothing perfect about idea of a creator who condemns people for not believing in an ugly male-chauvinistic mythology where God uses utterly stupid and violent means to deal with all his problems ------------------------ But our father doesn't do anything utterly stupid and violent mean to deal with all his problems........... our father has no problems, this is all about us. It's not like us going to heaven makes our father stronger, this is all about us. ====================================================== And you continually speak in a way to make it sound like our father is failing at something or can't do something and so on. US GOING TO HEAVEN IS NOT FOR OUR FATHER. Benefits him nothing. Doesn't make him more powerful, wiser, stronger, or ANYTHING. It's all for us and him giving his children a great future if they wish to have it. Heaven is a reward, it's not a given. It's earned, it's not given. So how is it our Father is failing if someone doesn't make it? Wouldn't it have been that person failing rather then our father? I believe so. Just because your child doesn't listen to you no matter what you've told him/her doesn't make you a bad parent. Nor are you responsible for their actions. Same with our heavenly father, he's not responsible for getting us to heaven, it's our job, our choice, our decisions, and our actions that will either get us there or not. |
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