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| Topic: have fallen for a married man | |
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Btw what does "fallen" mean? If there is no love just lust, I'm not sure I know the definition of "fallen" in this case..
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Btw what does "fallen" mean? If there is no love just lust, I'm not sure I know the definition of "fallen" in this case.. Means that this chick has "fallen" off her rocker. 
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My ex became "friends" with a woman when he was overseas. Yeah. Friends. We are getting a divorce and he has lost a wonderful woman. Me. And while she has repeatedly BEGGED him to choose her, he won't because that "relationship" destroyed all that was precious to him. He lost his family and that cannot be replaced. It can be added to, but never replaced.
You can't really help who you fall for, but you can prevent putting yourself in a situation that will create opportunity to "fall." No one wins when cheating occurs. You won't wind up with him. He might seem great and wonderful and all that, but he won't choose you over his family. If he did, would you really want him? If he does choose you, he is SO not worth your time, especially if he has kids and walks away from them for you. We all make errors in judgement from time to time, especially where urges are involved. But the true test of our character is in how we handle the challenges we face. |
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Gee. My ex did the same thing. That's why she's my EX ... Oddly enough, she, too, got her feelings hurt when he began cheating on HER ... It ain't rocket science - HE was cheating on HIS wife with HER and she was cheating on ME with HIM - but she expected HIM to be 'faithful' to HER ... ? Effing unreal ... Key word: MARRIED ... Wanna play? Key word: DIVORCED ... |
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this is not a good thing....
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My ex became "friends" with a woman when he was overseas. Yeah. Friends. We are getting a divorce and he has lost a wonderful woman. Me. And while she has repeatedly BEGGED him to choose her, he won't because that "relationship" destroyed all that was precious to him. He lost his family and that cannot be replaced. It can be added to, but never replaced. You can't really help who you fall for, but you can prevent putting yourself in a situation that will create opportunity to "fall." No one wins when cheating occurs. You won't wind up with him. He might seem great and wonderful and all that, but he won't choose you over his family. If he did, would you really want him? If he does choose you, he is SO not worth your time, especially if he has kids and walks away from them for you. We all make errors in judgement from time to time, especially where urges are involved. But the true test of our character is in how we handle the challenges we face. I agree completely, it is making honorable choices in the difficult situations that we face is what is inportant. It's unwise tho to sit injudgement because often as soon as we do, the same thing happens to us that we just ran someone else over the coals for. Love is too precious when it is strong and true to give up hope. And if the love is strong u both will choose -out of strength to do what is best as best as u can wihtout being rash about it- even tho we might not all make the same choices or agree with the choices of another, the important thing is that they are made out of strength and the desire to do the best thing over the short term AND the long term. The solutions will be as varied and individual as the people involved. It is when he is just after sex that it's easy to just end it, and u must test him for that. He should not be allowed to get away with "having his cake and eating it too". Many tough choices come our way. Be careful about standing in judgemnt over the choices of another. jmho |
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In today's 'instant gratification' society, 'honor' is an outmoded concept ... that's why we wade thru reams of crap like this.
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You can stay happy if you know how to play the game, cash in the benefits, and dont expect much. Date others, and keep your options open... hes the desperate one.. not you. Ps... Lemme guess he told you 4 months into it that he was attached? I dont know why but 4 always seems to be the magic number. Ps happy ending? Probably not. |
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Edited by
STARTRAVELER
on
Fri 08/20/10 08:26 PM
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You may have a point but I have been dating for a year or so and have not had anyone take a hold of my heart like this one. I really think it is because believe it or not he really is a nice guy. I know he feels guilt too but I am not sure if I feel what he is doing is so wrong. If he stays with her what is the harm in him seeking something missing with her. I know that he has tried to get her to see things his way but she is not meeting his needs. That being said he loves her I know and for what ever reason that doesn't bother me. I know i should set the bar a little higher but i have dated and men and continue to keep options open but no one makes me feel like he does. All the other men I have dated just seem to bore me or no spark. I may be settling but it doesn't feel that way all the time. I am having a hard time letting go. He is the closest thing i have found to what i would like to find in a my next partner. The cheating thing doesnt bother me. I know it happens and i know it doesn't mean you care for anyone any less it is just something that can make you feel good again if kids etc take over at home. |
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" ... ook guys i know about karma and i know this has no happy ending for anyone. I know it is wrong because she i being lied to. Lies hurt the most when from someone you love. I know I cant be the first nor will i be the last for this guy. I truly wish i didn't find him so likable. Yes i know you all think he is a slim ball but you really shouldn't judge people that have different ways of dealing with things than you do as the scum of the earth. I know it hurts to be lied to, but the truth now would be worse than the lie. I am sure it will end soon enough and yes i would hope before any damage done to his family. The last thing i want is for him to leave his wife. I do not wish that on anyone. I have been selfish, yes, but life is short and I chose to do what made me happy. If that takes me to hell so be it. I'm sure i will see more than one of you there too. My goodness some uptight people in this forum. I knew this would get some very opinionated responses. Go ahead let it rip. ... " Bebbygrrl, you're not getting any sympathy 'cuz you DON'T DESERVE ANY. Is that clear enough? You CHOSE to screw a MARRIED guy KNOWING he was MARRIED. If you get 'hurt' now, no one cares. Period. The fact that you AND he are also going to involve INNOCENT PEOPLE - his family - really sucks. No one wants to hear any more of your selfish little rant about non-existent 'love' or that 'life is short' crap. Take it outside. No one cares - you did this to yourself and you refuse to listen to anyone who dares to disagree with you. Sympathy ... ? Ha. I'm waiting for you to discover HE's cheating on YOU ... and him to find out you're doing the same to him ... it'll be SO poetic ... Wow Kings_Knight... if this thread upsets you so much, maybe just don't read it? Don't think you need to be mean? Certainly give your opinion by all means! or say "you don't care"... but no need to speak for everyone else by saying "No one Cares". Also... it really sucks the kids are caught in the middle, however, do you know this guys wife? You talk about her like she's soooo innocent? how do you know that? How do you know SHE'S not out screwing everything that moves? Point is, if a marrige is at this point, it's NOT ONE SIDED! Is it wrong? absolutely. But no need to basically tell her to just go screw off? Is that how people have helped you in the past when YOU made mistakes? or... you have just never made any mistakes? wow! how do you know if there is something wrong with their marriage? the only word we have on that comes from the one person we know for a fact is cheating. to indict the wife here seems a bit careless. even if the marriage is on rocky ground it does not give him license to look else ware. does it? to your point about it taking two….well you’re right in one sense, it does take two to maintain, cultivate, and keep a relationship going forward, however it does not necessarily take two to destroy it. all it takes is one and usually it is the one who is out developing other relationships. |
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" ... ook guys i know about karma and i know this has no happy ending for anyone. I know it is wrong because she i being lied to. Lies hurt the most when from someone you love. I know I cant be the first nor will i be the last for this guy. I truly wish i didn't find him so likable. Yes i know you all think he is a slim ball but you really shouldn't judge people that have different ways of dealing with things than you do as the scum of the earth. I know it hurts to be lied to, but the truth now would be worse than the lie. I am sure it will end soon enough and yes i would hope before any damage done to his family. The last thing i want is for him to leave his wife. I do not wish that on anyone. I have been selfish, yes, but life is short and I chose to do what made me happy. If that takes me to hell so be it. I'm sure i will see more than one of you there too. My goodness some uptight people in this forum. I knew this would get some very opinionated responses. Go ahead let it rip. ... " Bebbygrrl, you're not getting any sympathy 'cuz you DON'T DESERVE ANY. Is that clear enough? You CHOSE to screw a MARRIED guy KNOWING he was MARRIED. If you get 'hurt' now, no one cares. Period. The fact that you AND he are also going to involve INNOCENT PEOPLE - his family - really sucks. No one wants to hear any more of your selfish little rant about non-existent 'love' or that 'life is short' crap. Take it outside. No one cares - you did this to yourself and you refuse to listen to anyone who dares to disagree with you. Sympathy ... ? Ha. I'm waiting for you to discover HE's cheating on YOU ... and him to find out you're doing the same to him ... it'll be SO poetic ... Wow Kings_Knight... if this thread upsets you so much, maybe just don't read it? Don't think you need to be mean? Certainly give your opinion by all means! or say "you don't care"... but no need to speak for everyone else by saying "No one Cares". Also... it really sucks the kids are caught in the middle, however, do you know this guys wife? You talk about her like she's soooo innocent? how do you know that? How do you know SHE'S not out screwing everything that moves? Point is, if a marrige is at this point, it's NOT ONE SIDED! Is it wrong? absolutely. But no need to basically tell her to just go screw off? Is that how people have helped you in the past when YOU made mistakes? or... you have just never made any mistakes? wow! how do you know if there is something wrong with their marriage? the only word we have on that comes from the one person we know for a fact is cheating. to indict the wife here seems a bit careless. even if the marriage is on rocky ground it does not give him license to look else ware. does it? to your point about it taking two….well you’re right in one sense, it does take two to maintain, cultivate, and keep a relationship going forward, however it does not necessarily take two to destroy it. all it takes is one and usually it is the one who is out developing other relationships. I agree with kc ... AND if this guy put the attention and time into his relationship with his wife that he is putting into his extra curriculars ... then perhaps his relationship with his wife might look significantly different to him. This is not rocket science ... it is respect and consideration for one another... |
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" ... ook guys i know about karma and i know this has no happy ending for anyone. I know it is wrong because she i being lied to. Lies hurt the most when from someone you love. I know I cant be the first nor will i be the last for this guy. I truly wish i didn't find him so likable. Yes i know you all think he is a slim ball but you really shouldn't judge people that have different ways of dealing with things than you do as the scum of the earth. I know it hurts to be lied to, but the truth now would be worse than the lie. I am sure it will end soon enough and yes i would hope before any damage done to his family. The last thing i want is for him to leave his wife. I do not wish that on anyone. I have been selfish, yes, but life is short and I chose to do what made me happy. If that takes me to hell so be it. I'm sure i will see more than one of you there too. My goodness some uptight people in this forum. I knew this would get some very opinionated responses. Go ahead let it rip. ... " Bebbygrrl, you're not getting any sympathy 'cuz you DON'T DESERVE ANY. Is that clear enough? You CHOSE to screw a MARRIED guy KNOWING he was MARRIED. If you get 'hurt' now, no one cares. Period. The fact that you AND he are also going to involve INNOCENT PEOPLE - his family - really sucks. No one wants to hear any more of your selfish little rant about non-existent 'love' or that 'life is short' crap. Take it outside. No one cares - you did this to yourself and you refuse to listen to anyone who dares to disagree with you. Sympathy ... ? Ha. I'm waiting for you to discover HE's cheating on YOU ... and him to find out you're doing the same to him ... it'll be SO poetic ... Wow Kings_Knight... if this thread upsets you so much, maybe just don't read it? Don't think you need to be mean? Certainly give your opinion by all means! or say "you don't care"... but no need to speak for everyone else by saying "No one Cares". Also... it really sucks the kids are caught in the middle, however, do you know this guys wife? You talk about her like she's soooo innocent? how do you know that? How do you know SHE'S not out screwing everything that moves? Point is, if a marrige is at this point, it's NOT ONE SIDED! Is it wrong? absolutely. But no need to basically tell her to just go screw off? Is that how people have helped you in the past when YOU made mistakes? or... you have just never made any mistakes? wow! how do you know if there is something wrong with their marriage? the only word we have on that comes from the one person we know for a fact is cheating. to indict the wife here seems a bit careless. even if the marriage is on rocky ground it does not give him license to look else ware. does it? to your point about it taking two….well you’re right in one sense, it does take two to maintain, cultivate, and keep a relationship going forward, however it does not necessarily take two to destroy it. all it takes is one and usually it is the one who is out developing other relationships. I agree with kc ... AND if this guy put the attention and time into his relationship with his wife that he is putting into his extra curriculars ... then perhaps his relationship with his wife might look significantly different to him. This is not rocket science ... it is respect and consideration for one another... 
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Lots of good advice here. You can weigh everything in and see what works best for you. When it comes to the matters of the heart, sometimes logic and reason flies right out the window. If what you're doing bothers you in any way and makes you question your own actions then you know deep down there's something wrong somewhere. Hope in time you can figure it all out and do what's right for you. Good luck!
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Wasn't looking for it, did not want to, not sure how it slipped up on me. The sad truth is I have fallen for someone that belongs to someone else. I don't want to break up his family. I do still want to spend as much time with him as possible. I know this has no happy ending just wish i knew how to let go. I try and date others but he is the only one that captures my attention. I am so confused. I know you people here will not hold back on your opinions and looking forward to hearing what you have to say. Is it possible to have a happy ending when in love with a married man that you want him to stay with his wife but still want him as a lover, friend etc.... I have very little tolerance for such things. You both are selfish and quite frankly a couple of losers........ 
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" ... ook guys i know about karma and i know this has no happy ending for anyone. I know it is wrong because she i being lied to. Lies hurt the most when from someone you love. I know I cant be the first nor will i be the last for this guy. I truly wish i didn't find him so likable. Yes i know you all think he is a slim ball but you really shouldn't judge people that have different ways of dealing with things than you do as the scum of the earth. I know it hurts to be lied to, but the truth now would be worse than the lie. I am sure it will end soon enough and yes i would hope before any damage done to his family. The last thing i want is for him to leave his wife. I do not wish that on anyone. I have been selfish, yes, but life is short and I chose to do what made me happy. If that takes me to hell so be it. I'm sure i will see more than one of you there too. My goodness some uptight people in this forum. I knew this would get some very opinionated responses. Go ahead let it rip. ... " Bebbygrrl, you're not getting any sympathy 'cuz you DON'T DESERVE ANY. Is that clear enough? You CHOSE to screw a MARRIED guy KNOWING he was MARRIED. If you get 'hurt' now, no one cares. Period. The fact that you AND he are also going to involve INNOCENT PEOPLE - his family - really sucks. No one wants to hear any more of your selfish little rant about non-existent 'love' or that 'life is short' crap. Take it outside. No one cares - you did this to yourself and you refuse to listen to anyone who dares to disagree with you. Sympathy ... ? Ha. I'm waiting for you to discover HE's cheating on YOU ... and him to find out you're doing the same to him ... it'll be SO poetic ... Wow Kings_Knight... if this thread upsets you so much, maybe just don't read it? Don't think you need to be mean? Certainly give your opinion by all means! or say "you don't care"... but no need to speak for everyone else by saying "No one Cares". Also... it really sucks the kids are caught in the middle, however, do you know this guys wife? You talk about her like she's soooo innocent? how do you know that? How do you know SHE'S not out screwing everything that moves? Point is, if a marrige is at this point, it's NOT ONE SIDED! Is it wrong? absolutely. But no need to basically tell her to just go screw off? Is that how people have helped you in the past when YOU made mistakes? or... you have just never made any mistakes? You act like you are blaming the guys wife for his cheating...of course you are a man and had to come up with that reason. NO we don't know his wife but HIS girlfriend said the wife was innocent? This whole situation is not a good one...all I can say is, KARMA IS A BYTCH!!! I hope you don't fall in love with someone and then find out when you are married that he is cheating with a friend!! Trust me, its not fun!!! |
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" ... ook guys i know about karma and i know this has no happy ending for anyone. I know it is wrong because she i being lied to. Lies hurt the most when from someone you love. I know I cant be the first nor will i be the last for this guy. I truly wish i didn't find him so likable. Yes i know you all think he is a slim ball but you really shouldn't judge people that have different ways of dealing with things than you do as the scum of the earth. I know it hurts to be lied to, but the truth now would be worse than the lie. I am sure it will end soon enough and yes i would hope before any damage done to his family. The last thing i want is for him to leave his wife. I do not wish that on anyone. I have been selfish, yes, but life is short and I chose to do what made me happy. If that takes me to hell so be it. I'm sure i will see more than one of you there too. My goodness some uptight people in this forum. I knew this would get some very opinionated responses. Go ahead let it rip. ... " Bebbygrrl, you're not getting any sympathy 'cuz you DON'T DESERVE ANY. Is that clear enough? You CHOSE to screw a MARRIED guy KNOWING he was MARRIED. If you get 'hurt' now, no one cares. Period. The fact that you AND he are also going to involve INNOCENT PEOPLE - his family - really sucks. No one wants to hear any more of your selfish little rant about non-existent 'love' or that 'life is short' crap. Take it outside. No one cares - you did this to yourself and you refuse to listen to anyone who dares to disagree with you. Sympathy ... ? Ha. I'm waiting for you to discover HE's cheating on YOU ... and him to find out you're doing the same to him ... it'll be SO poetic ... Wow Kings_Knight... if this thread upsets you so much, maybe just don't read it? Don't think you need to be mean? Certainly give your opinion by all means! or say "you don't care"... but no need to speak for everyone else by saying "No one Cares". Also... it really sucks the kids are caught in the middle, however, do you know this guys wife? You talk about her like she's soooo innocent? how do you know that? How do you know SHE'S not out screwing everything that moves? Point is, if a marrige is at this point, it's NOT ONE SIDED! Is it wrong? absolutely. But no need to basically tell her to just go screw off? Is that how people have helped you in the past when YOU made mistakes? or... you have just never made any mistakes? thank you and no i dont know her. I would never gone this far with him if i had actually met her. It is would be sad for kids but it isnt going to get far enough to harm them. It just takes time sometimes to end things that should have never started. I dont think she is screwing every thing that moves I she is not attractive at all and that is being kind( i dont know her but i didnt say a didnt know what she looked like) I know he is probably the root of all there problems at home. He over spends and apparently lies a lot cuz he is way to f(*&(&() good at it to be a beginner. lmao When I really look at why it started i think i was a little turned on that he would risk it all. I know sick isnt it but honest . I cant explain what else is at risk (too private) but saying just his marriage doesnt even come close to what else was and is at stake. |
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Lots of good advice here. You can weigh everything in and see what works best for you. When it comes to the matters of the heart, sometimes logic and reason flies right out the window. If what you're doing bothers you in any way and makes you question your own actions then you know deep down there's something wrong somewhere. Hope in time you can figure it all out and do what's right for you. Good luck!
Thank you very much. I knew i would get a lot of grief here it is partly why i picked this site. When I get weak and he is calling I can just hear all this advice ringing in my ear. thanks again and i will make the right choice I am not as bad as some would like to think. I dont mind at all what they think really. giggle |
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Wow.... lots of opinions all over the board here. The one thing I agree with for sure.. NO HAPPY ENDINGS! The reason he is even cheating on his wife is because there is something wrong with there relationship. NOT JUST HIS FAULT. It takes TWO!! Never the less, he's not happy and is looking for something to fill that! Does he want out of the marriage? Maybe? Will he leave his wife? always a chance, but VERY, VERY slim. And if he ever did, and you two were still carring on with your relationship, then the chances of you two working out is next to none!! Starting a relationship on those terms, those conditions... ya... not looking good! As hard as it is, you need to suck it up, and cut all contact! I will tell you right now.. HE WON'T. He's getting the best of both worlds. And don't try to come accross as "feeling bad for the wife" or one of you two women sharing this guys dick does not bother you. If you feel that stongly about him, then why would it be ok to have this guy sticking himself in the both of you? And if he tells you there relationship is soooo bad that they don't even have "sex" anymore.... Personally, I would call ********! Dbl I agree with all that you've said except "The reason he is even cheating on his wife is because there is something wrong with there relationship. NOT JUST HIS FAULT. It takes TWO!! Never the less, he's not happy and is looking for something to fill that!" IF he's not happy he should leave and THEN date/have sex, whatever you want to call it.. But as long as he's with his wife he in NO WAY should be cheating no matter she does UNLESS he has her blessing which obviously by LA's posts he does not... I don't think anyone's point here is that the wife is without blame.. Their point is "take care of your problems first, the right way.. Then do what you want".. In case there is confusion on the right way it is to "be single"... Triple i agree then I guess you would say . You are correct but i expect he is still sleeping with his wife and no it doesnt bother me at all. In fact I know he still loves her. I also think he is the problem with the marriage not her at all but just my opinion from things he has said I always end up taking her side. LOL He doesnt talk about home life much anymore. LMAO I am really not as dumb as i may appear. Just needed to hear others opinions. I dont have anyone else to bounce this off of so Thank you both for your 2 cents. really! thanks! |
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Wasn't looking for it, did not want to, not sure how it slipped up on me. The sad truth is I have fallen for someone that belongs to someone else. I don't want to break up his family. I do still want to spend as much time with him as possible. I know this has no happy ending just wish i knew how to let go. I try and date others but he is the only one that captures my attention. I am so confused. I know you people here will not hold back on your opinions and looking forward to hearing what you have to say. Is it possible to have a happy ending when in love with a married man that you want him to stay with his wife but still want him as a lover, friend etc.... Been there; done that. I learned my lesson and WOULD NEVER allow myself to date a married man again.... He's not going to leave his wife! Better yet! Present him with this: "I love you. I want to be with you.... Please leave your wife." Nip it in the butt! You're defining your life based on his needs and not what you want, which his him; and, that you'll never have. Ask for what YOU THINK YOU WANT; SEE WHAT YOU GET. People don't frown on married men having affairs; but, they do frown on single women having affairs with married men. Just the way it is. I dated a married man for over a year. There is NO happy ending for you. You're single; he's not. When you finally reach a point where you don't want to share him anymore, you will give him an ultimatum.... you already know the answer. It won't be you. You're asking for advice on this matter because you are trying to justify your actions as I once did. Don't try to justify it or make excuses for having an affair with a married man. He captures your attention because he belongs to someone else. Women like a challenge. You will be alone for the holidays; and, other special occasions; he will be with his family, which is where he belongs. When you give him an ultimatum, he WILL walk and you will wished you'd ended this a very long time again.... He will move on to the next woman willing to settle for less; and, you will be left broken heart wondering why you wasted all this time, energy and focus on a situation that was destined to fail in the beginning. But, maybe you need to just simply live the experience to learn as most of us do in every day life. Whatever you do, I wish you well. You will live to regret continuing to see him if that's what you decide to do. My opinions based on my experience. And, you're right. When you post something of this nature, the responses are not going to be good. I did that once upon a time.... It was vicious. I was trashed. Take my advice and others here.... stop it now.... Dating a married man is like talking about politics or religion. People have very strong opinions. You simply need to have enough self respect to SAY NO. It may be hard; but, you'll get through it. Please email me if you need to talk. You are so very kind and that is what i was also hoping to find was someone that has been through it and knows what i am dealing with. I am only a couple of months into this and see end soon but he seems to think we can remain friends. I dont see how we can be so cutting all ties is taking a little time is all. |
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Wow.... lots of opinions all over the board here. The one thing I agree with for sure.. NO HAPPY ENDINGS! The reason he is even cheating on his wife is because there is something wrong with there relationship. NOT JUST HIS FAULT. It takes TWO!! Never the less, he's not happy and is looking for something to fill that! Does he want out of the marriage? Maybe? Will he leave his wife? always a chance, but VERY, VERY slim. And if he ever did, and you two were still carring on with your relationship, then the chances of you two working out is next to none!! Starting a relationship on those terms, those conditions... ya... not looking good! As hard as it is, you need to suck it up, and cut all contact! I will tell you right now.. HE WON'T. He's getting the best of both worlds. And don't try to come accross as "feeling bad for the wife" or one of you two women sharing this guys dick does not bother you. If you feel that stongly about him, then why would it be ok to have this guy sticking himself in the both of you? And if he tells you there relationship is soooo bad that they don't even have "sex" anymore.... Personally, I would call ********! Dbl I agree with all that you've said except "The reason he is even cheating on his wife is because there is something wrong with there relationship. NOT JUST HIS FAULT. It takes TWO!! Never the less, he's not happy and is looking for something to fill that!" IF he's not happy he should leave and THEN date/have sex, whatever you want to call it.. But as long as he's with his wife he in NO WAY should be cheating no matter she does UNLESS he has her blessing which obviously by LA's posts he does not... I don't think anyone's point here is that the wife is without blame.. Their point is "take care of your problems first, the right way.. Then do what you want".. In case there is confusion on the right way it is to "be single"... Triple i agree then I guess you would say . You are correct but i expect he is still sleeping with his wife and no it doesnt bother me at all. In fact I know he still loves her. I also think he is the problem with the marriage not her at all but just my opinion from things he has said I always end up taking her side. LOL He doesnt talk about home life much anymore. LMAO I am really not as dumb as i may appear. Just needed to hear others opinions. I dont have anyone else to bounce this off of so Thank you both for your 2 cents. really! thanks! If you think he is then that makes him all the worse in my opinion.. Whenever I here that I think that it's like keeping the spouse somewhat satiated so the other can go do what they want.. In reality what they're doing is tricking the other spouse into thinking things are ok... I hope you can stay away for your sake b/c it sounds like you want to.. I don't think you are one of those women that enjoys breaking up marriages... It seems like you realize that nothing good can come of this and innocent people will get hurt... Sometimes we can't help who we care about but marriage is a red flag just like any other red flags we are careful to avoid... Good luck... 
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