see again....you talk politics, im simply talking about the common person who loves their contry. and will fight for it. govts have been corrupt for thousands of years my friend...ever since their inception. But im not talking about that...if you read youd know...the difference is i respect your views....you deem me worthless and expendable. Maybe all govts are crap! but which ones are the least crappy?? saddaam lived in palaces while his ppl lived in hutts starving...something tells me you have never seen, or experienced that, otherwise youd have a different view. DO you write about the gennocide that saddaam tried to execute? or the taliban?? if you want these guys on your soil thats your stupidity. Id much rather protect my home. regardless of its faults. good luck finding a country that you are trying explain. will never happen. the closest thing is our way of life.

I write about everything, sorry, I didn't mean any disrespect to you personally. I just don't care for the military as a whole, I respect what they fought for at one time but no longer respect what they fight for currently. It simply doesn't make any sense to me and from what I've read it really is senseless from that aspect.

Politics leads your fight though, regardless of how you feel about it. None-the-less, I am not one of those dimwits that wishes death upon soldiers, I don't wish death upon anyone. I'm just speaking from what I've learned, what I know, and what I've read. Sure, people will say independent journalism is bias, but with the same toke what isn't making their own journalism bias?

Stay safe man, and know where you stand. Most if not all troops are expendable, that's just the way the government sees it, regardless of what you're fighting for.

Seconded, though really even before 9-11 we weren't as free as we thought we were. It's gotten worse though in the 9 years since though, 9-11 provided the government with a reason to take more rights and freedoms away then they had previously, knowing we'd be afraid now and be more then willing to give these things up.

Ah but who is the ones that create the fear and even perpuate it but those in power? The common folk surely don't. We're just constantly played like a fiddle, defenseless against the whims of power hungry governments.

This is just it. There never can be a true "winner" in wars like this, merely who comes out of it with less casualties. And in the case of this one, it was never intended to end as such. It's more a war on us the people then a war on terror. I mean think about it, what freedoms exactly are being fought for overseas, when we don't really have that many anymore beyond which we are allowed?

Those that are over there fighting, however good intentions they may have in doing so, are really in the end being used as pawns in a big political game of chess. I realize that may not be popular, but......that's the reality.

Well... I haven't read through all the responses on this thread so I can only answer the topic title. I realize, I am new here so please be gentle

The two most lucrative commodities on this Earth right now are oil and opium. Oil more so just over the past 200 years but opium has a long history of being lucrative. Ask the British, they know.

With that being said, I think the whole mess is all about the oil and opium. I think that with the emergence over the past 10 years of China and India there is a great deal of future profit in supplying their energy needs, hence the oil pipeline being built across the northern part of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Iran is also included in this game of chess as well by extension Georgia, which IMHO was a test of Russian resolve since southern Georgia is right up against the head of the "trunk" of this huge pipeline but also it has a port on it's western side.

Iran has to be the next to fall for greater security. Iran also has no central bank which again, IMHO, is one of the reasons they are being hassled. If we had them on our side security would be complete for all the pipelines being completed. Of course, Russia is a big stumbling block for the US when it comes to Iran for good reason.

We aren't the only ones also that have a pipeline going. So does Russia who are building their own pipeline to China which by incident can be easily spurred to India so it is kind of like a "space race" of oil. Whoever gets there first will have greater control over feeding energy to India and China foremost, and the rest of the world in extension.

That is what it all boils down to IMHO. Simply to look at it as multinational and monied interests looking to gain as much of the future pie as possible while people go on about their daily lives worried about their retirements and whether or not they should plant 4 or 6 pepper plants this year.

Iraq, again IMHO was attacked because Sadam didn't want to relinquish control of his oil reserves to corporate interests and had nationalized the industry in his country. Come to think of it so did Iran way back in the day which really infuriated Standard Oil.

Oh as far as the WMD's were concerned I think that we actually did think they were there and Sadam had programs going on. We basically aided his progress early on with even Uncle Donald Rumsfeld shaking his hand in the '80s.

Thing is, he didn't have them after Iraq I because we pretty much bombed them all out and all the way up to the Iraq II war there wasn't a year that went by where bombs weren't dropped on Iraq. Coupled with crippling sanctions and no ability to really rebuild any kind of program the country was a cakewalk to topple. Holding is another question which still remains to this day because to use an analogy, the waters may be still for now but there is an undercurrent still which in bad weather can be brought to the surface quickly.

People tend to forget the period between 1991 and the start of Iraq II and how much Iraq was hassled.

I submit that what we seem to be fighting for is the ability to sustain American Luxury; from our list of priorities to the luxury of self deceit on a national level

Consider the following luxuries.
In the U.S. we spend $18 billion dollars for cosmetics compared to $19 billion on hunger and malnutrition (which apparently is not enough). Pet food between Europe and the U.S. is about $17 billions a year while immunizing every child, providing clean drinking water for ALL, and accomplishing universal literacy is only about $16.3 billion.
Don’t even begin researching ‘clothes’ and how much we spend on these energy guzzling garments so we can discard them six months later - it's disgusting.

At the end I will address – self deceit.

Some scientists estimate that in about fifty years crude oil will be at a premium as that resource becomes scarce to come by. So IF the war is about this resource, than it is about the Western World laying claim to it before it becomes a scarcity but when scarcity is realized oil and petroleum products won’t be affordable to the average person, it will likely be controlled by government(s).

A lot of us wont be here for that and considering how arrogantly neglectful our government has been on the topic of “renewable energy”, I doubt they are considering a government 50 years in the future.

So I don’t believe control of crude oil is behind the wars. There must be something more beneficial to the present, or very near future, that is driving the continued war efforts.

I think the wars are a last ditch effort to uproot and replace religiously organized governments. Not even communism shares a spotlight with the religious fundamentalism that threatens globalization.

Some posters claim to have a handle on history, especially where war is concerned, and if that’s the case they can surely see how the governments of the world have evolved from religious control and nation state supported religions to more autonomous laws and morals as dictated by a diverse society rather than a religion.

Without that evolution we could not have evolved to this level of globalization and without total globalization we will be hindered in our efforts to find and share renewable energy resources and subscribe to a more sustainable human existence.

So in effect – we are simply fighting yet another religious war.

We could do nothing and watch genocide and hatred downsize the world population but then we risk one religious group gaining a firm threshold over land and its resources, including people. We, and much of the rest of the world, have a lot to fear from any religiously fundamentalist nation of that size (consider 9/11 as a peck on the cheek). But rarely in history has anyone claimed that a war was specifically based against a religion and no government, so far, is willing to do so today.

SO – the reason for these wars is obscured through rumor, propaganda, and misdirection which effectively emmulates exactly how we invoked The Cold War.

In the end every individual serving in any country or for the U.N. has developed their own personal reasons for their commitment. Psychologically, being the social creatures we are, we must have a reason to destroy, and we MUST find SUPPORT, from others, for our reasoning.

The same idea holds true for those on the home fronts who lend their support to the troops. What they are actually supporting are the individually devised reasons for the wars and not a national interest because no one nation has ever admitted why they are REALLY involved in this great destruction.

Would it be so difficult to TOPPLE these governments and TAKE over? Yes – because no government wants to give that much responsibility (and the power that can come with it) to any other single government and sharing it could lead to wars between allies.

So now it is about destroying the hierarchy in those countries in the eyes of the people governed by religious fundamentalism. To gain the loyalty of enough people with power from within the populace to allow a coup in which natural citizens take over and run a government more flexible to the globalization process.

But as I said, those who claim to know history already know that this is how its been working for many hundreds of years.

BUY THE LIE – LIVE IN DENIAL because the truth is inconvenient, because the religion of a people is not to be crossed, there would be too much control lost in doing so.

If you don’t think so, begin declaring (in mass) that you support the WAR to eliminate the fundamentalist religious governments and watch the fundamentalists in our own country rise up with those of other countries running scared to beat you down.

This is the luxury of self-deceit.

FOR YOUR INFORMATION:


The majority of our crude oil is from Non-Opec countries - of the 230,308 barrels in the final 6 months of 2009, three countries, Canada, Mexico, and Russia, respectively, supplied about 55%, 128,093, of the total. Of the Opec countries 6 month total, 143,324, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and Nigeria, respectively, supplied about 87% totaling 87,306 barrels.

Russia - we were averaging less than 1,000 barrels per month (BPM) in 1998 to over 14,000 a month by the end of 2009. Mexico has been pretty steady averaging between 30,000 and 55,000 BPM since 1993. There has been a steady increase in the volume from Canada, and since 2003 fluctuating between 55,000 and 81,000 BPM.

Since 1998 the scatter chart for Iraq is all over the place, zero one month 22,000 the next and a few hundred the next.

Not too dependable, but since Russia has picked up and seems dependable why do we bother - except it help maintain our lifestyle of luxury?

Although Nigeria has a fluctuation here and there, which seems logical per the circumstances over the years, otherwise maintains their average. Venezuela, likewise, has maintained a dependable average over the years.

So what have YOU heard about our dependence on foreign oil?

I;d like to add that Nigeria and Saudi Arabia are the two biggest suppliers of oil to the States. Canada is up there. I can understand why ppl think this war is about oil....after all it takes oil to fuel a war. But the losing side of a war ALWAYS loses more than the war itself....And remember, sadaam burned most of his oil wells due to the allied onslaught that was headed their way.

Some things for eklectek-
The USS Liberty Memorial-http://www.gtr5.com/
Interview with the survivors-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3E2NcC0x20&feature=player_embedded
Dead in the Water: Sinking of the USS Liberty(BBC Documentary)-http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3319663041501647311#

always up for new info....ill take a look. is this like michael moore stuff??

Nope. The BBC vid features people who were there, in fact.

ill have a look.

conspiracy theories...listening to those "claims" the only one i can kind of agree with was the attempted sinking of the liberty...but again....most of that stuff was bogus...listening to a guy say its because israel has tons of money is why we didnt attack is dumb. I dont care who has the money....we have more firepower....as for the rest...i just shake my head..

Yes, let's ignore the evidence and eye witness testimony and call it a "conspiracy".

hersey

yet it is you who lacks the "eyewitness" status.....you see what tv shows you my friend....i see whats happening because i serve there...

One of the things which is different about these wars from most others is that the enemy must import guns and ammo to fight. Considering the volume of weapons involved, there would have to be a direct connection to the manufacturing. In the case of Iran (who ships arms to Iraq), they are our enemy and we know exactly what they are doing. There were also tons of arms left in the country from Saddam's army.

In the case of Pakistan (who ships arms to the Taliban in Afghanistan), it is much different. If the country's government is truly our friend, why can't we stop the arms at their source?

Not bad as far as wars go...

Answer: I don't like war but I fully support our troops

Keeping things real:
The United States consumes eleven percent of world oil production
some 21 000 000 barrels a day.

United states oil imports:

Rank Country
1 Canada
2 Saudi Arabia
3 Mexico
4 Venezuela
5 Nigeria
6 Algeria
7 Angola
8 Iraq
9 Russia
10 Virgin Islands*