we have given multiple verses of homosexuality being wrong in the new testiment.

If eating shellfish is a abomination then don't eat shellfish!It is a well known fact shellfish is loaded with toxins.I have never eaten it and have no intention of eating it.

You must remember that a good portion of the Old testament deals with Jewish traditions that are simply written there for the purpose of history and knowledge of the Jewish people and there traditions.Some of those traditions were dealt with by Jesus and would take a long time to go through here.

Many people believe that the Old testament is irrivant.This is foolish thinking.Jesus gave us a different way of looking at the Old testament and simply updated it.Jesus said he was not there to change the Old testament...


"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them. Truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven Matthew 5:17-20"

New testament concerning homosexuality...

"For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." (Romans 1:26-27).


If the natural use of a woman is a sexual relation with another man(which is backed up by the bible in many verses)then the unnatural use could only mean homosexual(which is not backed up by the bible) in any positive way.



You can not cherry pick the bible verses to back up your sinful lifestyle.God destroyed a entire city for homosexuality.I think it is safe to say God finds homosexuality very offending to him and would not tolerate it at any level.I don't think the New testament needs to deal with homosexuality because we already know that God despises homosexuality.Would there be any reason for Jesus to say that it is sin?It certainly isn't holy or Godly in any way.Jesus would not see a gay couple and tell the people that God was wrong in his judgment and bless that gay couple.If you were endorsing homosexuality you would also be endorsing...

Sodomy.

Sexual relations out side of marriage(which in the bible has always referred to a male/female relationship).

Not being able to reproduce and multiply-Cleary not what God had intended.

Using a male to get pregnant and raise a family-Audultry and many other sins.

Going against Gods will concerning the destruction of Sodom and gomorrah.


When it comes to a sexual relationship you can be smart about it and know the bible only accepts one form of sexual relationship.That is one between a marriage male and female.You can be dumb about it and think that homosexuality is tolerated in some way in the bible.There isn't a single verse pro homosexual in the bible and plenty against it.You can believe what you want.Practicing homosexuals are toxic in the church much like unrepentant sinners who go to church on Sunday and spend the rest of the night whoring,cussing,fighting,and doing everything the can do to go against the word of God.Their actions speak much louder than their words and are a bad influence for the Christians who are trying their best to live a life by the bible.

According to your picture, tom, you have shaved before. Thus by your definition, you are an abomination too. Remember that the Bible was translated from language to language, and the actual term "homosexuality" came from could more accurately be translated into "prostitution". As for not being able to reproduce, nuns can't reproduce, so are they wrong? Have you ever lied? Ever sinned even once? Then you can be found at fault before God. Good news for us, God is merciful and loves ALL His children. Because I have never been married, I am a virgin in every sense of the word, so don't assume that gay is the same thing as promiscuous, because it definitely is not. My "sinful lifestyle"? You know nothing about me except that I'm gay. That phrase is so judgemental, and God says to not judge. I cannot help that I am not attracted to guys. It's not a choice. I can, however, choose to not have sexual relations until marriage and that is what I have chosen. I love God with all my heart. I am constantly praying to Him, seeking His guidance. I know I am not perfect, but I also know that He loves me. Everybody lives "sinful lives" because we are all sinners. God still loves you even though you are being hateful and judgemental to me.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (King James Version)

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.




,,I think the passage has TWO different examples of 'sexual immorality', fornication(sex outside of marriage?) and abusers of themselves with mankind(homosexuality?)

I think anyone abstaining, regardless of their emotions, is free from either category,,,,

You raise a good point. I can remember having a chance to go to a Gay/Lesbian meeting of A. A. in Wichita but I didn't go because I thought people there would think that I was gay. Later though I got a chance to meet an alcoholic name Daniel who called himself Danielle. Danielle is the French female variant of the male name Daniel. Talk about Daniel in the lion's den; His reception brought quite a stir by some of the members. I am glad I remembered Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. For who was I to judge him? I hadn't walked a mile in his moccasins.

You make a very good point. Thank you for not judging. I understand that people have opposing viewpoints, but does that really mean we should argue and place blame on each other? I don't think God would like that. Therefore I apologize to any harsh words I said or if I said anything offensive, God loves us all and we are all equal in His eyes, so lets all praise Him together!

You make a very good point. Thank you for not judging. I understand that people have opposing viewpoints, but does that really mean we should argue and place blame on each other? I don't think God would like that. Therefore I apologize to any harsh words I said or if I said anything offensive, God loves us all and we are all equal in His eyes, so lets all praise Him together!


Praise God for saving a wretch like me. My daughter who was about your age asked me, "Daddy, why am I gay?" I didn't know what to tell her. I know I wasn't that great a husband or a daddy. And I know I failed her and my wife because I came to believe I wasn't mature enough to be either. I felt like I was an abomination instead of her being one. I had to accept that I wasn't there for her sister or her brother. But when she brought her girlfriend to my house I had a chance to make up for past mistakes. I tried to make sure they both felt welcomed at my house. Later she broke up with her girlfriend because she said she was too clingy. I felt sorry for her girlfriend because I was told once that I was too clingy. I felt sorry for my daughter because I feel she inherited my rebellious nature. My son and me both thought it was strange to see her later with a boy. Both of her relationships didn't last long. Actually, the longest relationship she had was with a gay guy. It makes sense to me now that I think about it because gay means happy. I know my daughter likes being happy.

I can see from your posts that you have either had a lot of mis information or you don't know the bible very well.It is foolish to think that we don't know the difference between homosexuality and prostitution.No they are not the same thing because each is mentioned indivuldly in one verse.The translation is also the same.HOMOSEXUAL OFFENDERS is a term related to both men and women.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male PROSTITUES nor HOMOSEXUAL offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Nuns can't reproduce?I looked for a long time and didn't find any biblical verses backing up any theories that nuns or women shouldn't reproduce.Nuns choose by CHOICE to not have sexual relations mainly because of the rules of the Catholic church.A nun can marry and have children if she wants to.There is no biblical laws to prevent her from doing that.


Yes I have lied and sinned against God.The difference between me and you is that I try my best not to do it over and over again.I repent my sins before God and make a strong commitment not to keep doing them.You and the other gays know you are sinning but have no intention of ever stopping.In the case of gay marriage you are making a lifelong commitment to rebel and sin against Gods word.I have said it before but what is the reason of even being a Christian if you are going to be living the life of a Atheist?


As far as my judgment on your homosexuality.That is not blind judgment on a person I don't know as Jesus taught us not to do.Judging someone by their ACTIONS or by their own ADMISSIONS is something the bible encourages through out the bible.There would be not point having laws,commandments,and rules if peoples actions were not to be judged.How would Christians know what people to stay away from if they looked at everyone the same?The bible would be useless because what kind of people are good and evil if we do not judge their actions?You seriously are not going to tell me Prostitutes,Murders,thieves,liars,Atheist and others are people Christians should be associating with are you?The bible tells us to stay away from those people.You know you should stay away from them because you are judging by the actions which the bible is telling us to do.

There are numerous verses that call upon Christians to judge. Jesus says in Luke 12:57, "Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right." Again Jesus says in John 7:24, "Stop judging by mere appearances,and make a right judgment."




I am being hateful and judgmental???I am telling you and giving you quotes from the bible.Are you saying I am wrong for standing up for bible verses?You said you are a homosexual did you not?I am saying the bible says it is wrong and God has destroyed a entire city because of it.It was you that wanted answers.I gave you answers and now you are calling me hateful.You better read the bible again because people who speak the TRUTH in the bible are the ones God and Jesus hold near and dear.You are not only rebelling against God you are rebelling against other Christians.




Concerning the old and news Testaments.Some of those laws changed and some didn't.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/3158


What, then, does the Bible say about eating pork? Is it wrong? This question naturally arises from reading the Old Testament, because it was wrong for Jews under the Law of Moses to eat pork. In Leviticus 11, God gave the Israelites a list of animals that were permissible to eat, but the text specifically labels swine (pork) as unclean and forbidden (vs. 7). Throughout the Old Testament, the act of eating swine’s flesh was viewed as an abomination to the Israelites—wrong and sinful (see Isaiah 66:17). One primary reason for this prohibition in the Old Testament against eating the meat of unclean animals, including pork, was to protect the Israelites from diseases, infections, and bacteria that were more commonly carried in scavenger animals such as vultures, catfish, and pigs (see Thompson, pp. 52-53).

The question does arise, however, if it was wrong for those under the Old Law of Moses, is it still wrong for those who are following God under the New Law of Christ? The straightforward answer to this question is a simple, “no.” It is not wrong to eat pork.

When Jesus Christ died, He nailed the Old Law to the cross (Colossians 2:14). The book of Hebrews explains that Christ made the Law of Moses obsolete and replaced it with the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). Paul explained to Christians in Galatia that the Old Law was cast out and replaced by Christ’s New Law (Galatians 4:21-31). As a result, the regulations about clean and unclean foods were jettisoned, along with rules for animal sacrifice, ritual washings, annual feast days, Sabbath observance, and a host of other ceremonial trappings.

As evidence that the food regulations were abolished, the book of Acts includes an account in which the apostle Peter saw a heavenly vision of unclean animals being lowered from heaven. A voice from heaven said to Peter, “Rise, Peter, kill, and eat” (Acts 10:13). Peter responded that he did not eat unclean animals. The heavenly voice countered by saying, “What God has cleansed you must not call common” (10:15). In the immediate context, the vision was designed for Peter to understand that God was arranging for the Gospel to be preached to the Gentiles. But the interchange also manifests the fact that the regulations for clean and unclean animals had been altered so that animals that once were unclean to the Jew were now fit to eat.

In a passage that has a direct application to the eating of pork, Paul wrote to Timothy:

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer (1 Timothy 4:1-5, emp. added).

Under the New Law of Christ, it is no longer wrong to eat animals such as pigs or catfish, since such regulations have been removed. Those who want to be accepted by God no longer have to offer up physical animal sacrifices, since Christ offered Himself on the cross as the ultimate, permanent sacrifice for sins (Hebrews 9:28).

When Christ died on the cross, His New Law went into effect (Hebrews 9:16-22). While it is true that some of the things in the Old Law, such as the prohibition to murder or lie, are repeated in the New Law, many regulations were not carried over. The only way to know what God expects of individuals under the New Law is to study the 27 books in the New Testament that contain this law. Ultimately, all people who have lived after Christ’s death on the cross until His Second Coming will be judged by this New Law (see John 12:48).


Finally I would like to say homosexuality is not considered natural or Holy anywhere in the world.No religion tolerates it.China is full of Atheists and homosexuality is sometimes punishable by death.You can take what is in the bible,Gods actions,the worlds view,other religions views,and the nature of things and come to the conclusion that homosexuality is wrong.

I think I see your arguments Candi. I honestly wish more gays and lesbians were made welcome in church. They may share the wine and bread with the rest of we sinners as we all endeavor to walk as He'd have us to walk. It's a process we submit to for the rest of our lives. My problem is that homosexual behavior in some christian circles is argued not to be sin at all. I wouldn't respect a church that minimizes the sins that I struggle with. I want to be told even MY sins are sins and be encouraged to modify my life to conform to the Gospel.

you put it very well. to be a sinner is one thing,, to embrace and justify and continue the sin is another (especially when it is done by a congregation or its guide, the priest)

I appreciate the fact that you're searching for answers & are willing to engage in dialog about this subject. One of the points as being a follower of Christ is to strive for sinlessness as much as possible, each and every day. As others have said if we continue practicing a particular sin, day in & day out, then we are at odds with God. It doesn't matter what the sin is, sin is sin to God. You see God is holy & sinless & that he will not associate with the sinful. But, when someone becomes a true believer of Christ, then His blood shed on the cross washes us clean & makes us acceptable to God. He doesn't see our sin He sees His Son, Christ.

Now before I answer your question about verses in the new covenant vs. the old, I have to ask; have read or stiudied the bible at all? Or are you relying on what someone else is telling about the bible. You yourself to read & become knowledgable about God's love letter to us.

The apolstle Paul wrote in the book of Romans 1 about the wrath of God against humanity that is to come. In these Paul points out the issue of sexual sin. I've included the previous passages so that it is read in context. Look particularly at verses 26 & 27.

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

As for the validity of the old covenant writings, Jesus had this to say in Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." He's saying that the old covenant writings are still vaild.

The dietary restrictions had been lifted at the cross of Christ. And that fact was shown to the apostle Peter in a vision. The vision he had had a double meaning, the 1st about the cleaniness of previously restricted food & that the gentiles (non-Jews) were worthy of hearing about the saving grace of Christ. You can read about it in the book of Acts10:9-18.

The dress code was about the Jews setting themselves apart from the rest of the world & is not a requirement because we do not need an outward sign for others to see Christ. It's the way we treat others, how we conduct ourselves at work, play, the grocery store, etc, that's supposed to set us apart. It doesn't mean we're perfect, far from it, it's our intentions & attitude that show our true selves.

So to answer your question, I believe as others have said, not hear but elsewhere, that to continuely practice any sin daily is wrong. But, I believe that you can have those inclinations & NOT follow thru, as msharmony so bravely admitted, & be a believer. Paul called us to deny self honor Christ. It's not easy by any means.

Finally, the choice issue, Christian therapists would argue it is a matter of choice. There is no homosexual gene, that's bunk. It's usually an abuse issue that happened at a early age, or an abandonment issue or poor role models or extremely bad relationship issues.

Hope this helps,

tf73

Wow....Wow, excuse me I am speechless. Lets see if we can simplify this;

A broke horse is one you can ride. A bucking horse is used at rodeo events. Is there such a thing as a broke to ride bucking horse?...No.
Their actions define them.

To be a Christian who struggles with homosexuality and acknowledges it is not Gods way for a Christian is far different from one who claims to be a Christian and embraces homosexuality.
Again their actions define them.

The former is a Christian stuggling with sin like the rest of us. But make no mistake; the later is either ignorant of what scripture teaches or is a agent of satan working to corrupt the bride of Christ.