I may not agree with very much of what King's Knight is saying here, but in several of his posts his message seems to be along the lines of 'show me the evidence'.

This is open minded.

Kudos to King's Knight for wanting evidence.

I understand that some of us have had bizarre sensory experiences, and that is 'evidence enough' for those who haven't investigated other possible (physiological? perceptual? neurological? psychological?) causes for these experiences.

For those who haven't even had these bizarre sensory experiences... well a willingness to believe in something without evidence is not 'open mindedness'. It may be naive, it may be silly, it might, sometimes, even be stupid...but it is not 'open minded'.

This thread is a great illustration of how the word 'open minded' has been co-opted by those who are actually closed minded about the possibility that their pet worldview might be completely wrong.

Oh, and in response to the sub-thread...I have it on good authority that the question is "How many roads must a man walk down."


The mice. The mice told me. I think it was Benjy mouse.

for massagetrade and King's Knight concerning aliens:

When I started my Internet journey it was an attempt to find out something about how the world worked and I wanted to solve some of the mysteries that perplexed my logical mind to distraction. (Like crop circles, Big foot, abduction, cattle mutilations, genocide, war, conspiracy theories etc.)

I read everything I could about some of these things. I developed a pretty fair 'bullsh*t' meter, which saved a lot of time. I always look for motive and follow the money.

I did not 'believe' in aliens or UFO's etc.

But every path I went down in almost every subject lead to that possibility. I kept rejecting it, but by doing so, I found nothing but dead ends and no answers or reasonable theories or explanations.

So I decided to open my mind to the possibility that we (humans) are not the only intelligent sentient beings living in this universe or on this world.

With this consideration on the table everything then began to fit together as a whole.

Like you, I demanded evidence. There is evidence, in the form of testimony and stories that fit together to form a somewhat logical explanation for a lot of the mysteries, but so far as I know, I have not met an actual alien, unless its one that looks human.

I can't say that I am completely convinced that aliens exist simply because I have never seen one. I have seen UFO's and mutilated cattle, and even a black helicopter or two, but no creepy reptilian alien or grey alien in person.

I accept that they probably do exist. I still want evidence, but I have given up the chase. I'm too old to get abducted now. I just want them to leave me alone -- if they exist. But I am not going to make fun of anyone who says they saw a ship or a UFO. It doesn't matter to me if they did or not.

I think we live in a multidimensional reality and these 'aliens' come from a different dimension, - this dimension has something to do with time or has a different space-time property. Perhaps the fourth dimension is like a door or path through time, or this fourth dimension on some level can traverse our timeline a to a certain extent.

I think Big Foot might come through these open vortexes from the past, and goes back again. UFO's may also come through dimensional vortexes.

Here are some ideas and discoveries I have come across:

*The idea that the space ships can traverse a different timeline solves the question/problem introduced of how long it might take a spaceship to get from one part of the galaxy to another.

*The idea that space is warped has something to do with how a space ship travels through the universe. (They call it warp drive on Star Trec.) It actually makes sense.

*The reason gold has maintained its constant value on earth is because it has something to do with technology and providing life support for spaceships traveling across the galaxy. It will never lose its value, because its value is universal, or at least galactic.

There are many others that are a bit more bizarre, but they begin to make sense when you are looking at the world, galactic and universal picture.

* * * * * Therefore I would never let some rude jerk deprive me of my God/mods-given right of expressing my thoughts -- even if they are wrong! But that's the beauty of this discussion:
We have the opportunity of polishing and/or defending our views! When we're incapable of neither, we have a choice: Stay and fight, or take a flight! (or taking the hardest route: admitting the worthlessness of your ideas, but continuing participation...

Sorry to see ladylid choosing the "take a flight"!!!
(Hope she'll fly with "BritishAirways"-- I've heard they're the best!)

Fair enough! In my view, there are a lot of dead ends, unanswered questions, and things lacking for reasonable explanations and theories.



I'm very suspicious of this kind of evidence. I want an alien, or a spaceship - open for inspection.



Well, it does for me. If the military was testing a new plane design, or an everyday person built an odd, amateur lighter-than-air craft, or whatever - and someone thinks they saw a spaceship and runs around telling people they saw a space ship, it makes a difference whether their interpretation is accurate. There is a distinct possibility that we have had zero authentic extraterrestrial visitation on our planet.

Yes, I want an alien for evidence too! That would at least confirm my suspicions that they probably do exist, but it would dash my hopes that they do not exist. (From what I hear, if they do exist, they are not our friends, so I would prefer that they do NOT exist.)

The reason I don't care (anymore) if an account of some witness seeing a UFO is a true one or not is because I already know that a large percentage of these sitings are explainable and only a small percentage still cannot be explained. Its a percentage thing. I just don't get excited about that anymore. I guess you can say I just gave up.

But I have interviewed witnesses who have seen very strange (and large) objects at pretty close range and I have heard the military's lame explanations of what was sighted (by many people at once) and guess who was the most believable? Hint: It wasn't the military. There reports make my bullsh*t meter go off like crazy.

Its the same with Big Foot. I think people really are seeing Big foot-- but I doubt if anyone will ever capture one or kill one. (I wish someone would shoot one!.) And I think people would shoot the thing if they could. Given that, I don't think it is too smart of anyone to be running around in the woods dressed like Big foot. Not only could you get shot, someone might mistake you for a bear or other animal and shoot you.

But the reason I have decided to 'keep an open mind' and consider that aliens 'probably do exist' is because of the dead ends. There are not as many dead ends. In fact, put together, a lot of what I have learned makes a lot more sense with aliens in the picture. It just makes me feel less ... perplexed.

But don't make the mistake of thinking that I am "gullible." In some respects it may seem so, but I don't swallow it as 'truth.' I take the information I have and consider the possibility, the motives the reasons and with logic.. I put together the possibilities.

Most of the information -- regardless of various "Freedom of Info" acts -- is released on a strictly NEED TO KNOW basis!

Who needs a group of crazies running around screaming "THEY'RE HERE! THEY'RE HERE!"

Public is much more governable when its kept in the dark!!! (i.e. blind) Then they're better predisposed disregarding those "who can see the light"!!!

http://barbaraschwarz.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/alien_ufos.gif

but not everyone would run around yellin there here...or put tin foil on their head and hide....we're not in the dark ages any more science has opened up possibilities that were wrote off before......or.....turned into a bible

If it were possible to explain all of the mysteries that confound me, in logical terms and evidence. (Like catch the culprits or organization that is abducting people, making crop circles, mutilating cattle, flying through the sky, etc.) then I would be very happy.

In other words, if it ain't "aliens" or some kind of monstrous non-human life form, then what is doing these things?

The answers I get from "skeptics" are extremely lame ideas of what MIGHT be happening (ones that satisfy their own minds)and then they close the book on the subject without further investigation. I will give you an example:

A few people blame all the crop circles on two drunks with sticks. Ridiculous. Just because two guys wanted to see if they could make a crop circle does not mean that this is how all the crop circles have been made.

And swamp gas or weather balloons don't cut the mustard either.

There are people who think its fun to fake some picture of spaceships and with today's technology that would be very easy. Hollywood studios do it all the time. So pictures and even videos are rendered suspect.

Yep your are gonna have to capture a real alien. If you do, don't turn him over to the authorities because then he will just disappear, and so might you.

A lot of different kinds of people call themselves skeptics. Some are closed-minded and certain that [insert belief] is simply impossible. Others simply choose not to believe until solid evidence is provided.

That is reasonable. BUT when I ask them what better explanation might there be for these things... they don't seem the least bit curious. They pull some very lame explanation out of their hats that does not hold water and then they settle on that and then just drop the subject. They are satisfied, even though they have not investigated the facts.

They don't want to investigate the facts or try to solve the puzzle, because that might just point away from their lame explanation.

So I can't respect or consider their point of view because they have no answers, and they aren't looking for them. I honestly think some people just can't handle the idea. They don't want the truth.

To these people I say: If you aren't willing to investigate the facts and follow leads and try to solve the puzzle don't ridicule me for doing so, and don't demand that I prove anything to you! It is not my responsibility or desire to try to prove anything to anyone.

I am only interested in evaluating information and looking at the facts and evidence. In doing so, I have a right to speculate or form my own theories.

what about atlantian theories?

atlantian theories?

A better question: What about Boogy Man???

For God's sake, everything is just conjecture and supposition...

everything is worth pondering...if you dont believe,good for you..this is meant for those who watch and follow these things, to get their take..

Its not that I don't believe, but without a hard evidence its difficult to maintain the faith!

Although, I've heard, when R.Nixon was shown a body of the dead alien, he said: "Hide it away, and NEVER show it to anybody!!!"

another issue is people who are to quick to believe...and hoaxers that eather do it for attention or just pull one over on people...the latter tends to feed close minded people even more

Yeah, that's especially useful for those who don't understand anything -- and they pride themselves for pondering over such highly philosophical issues as aliens, etc.

Meanwhile, the authority figures, who've invented those fantastic issues, are rubbing their hands:

this thread was started to discuss ancient alien theory, and the belief we are not alone.....not to pick apart someone for believing what they do.
if you dont think aliens are possible good for you, but dont slam on anyone for having open minds about it!!!!