(1) And what about BAKKE ... ? That's REVERSE DISCRIMINATION. If, as you claim, AA 'policies' were put in place to 'include' any groups previously 'excluded', the argument is false, because the REASON Bakke was excluded was the fact that his application (and slot) was awarded to a LESS qualified candidate with LOWER scores. THAT's why it went to the Supreme Court.

(2) If Farrakhan " ... has instead supported a specific community for one race WITHIN AMERICA have an OPTION to live seperately ... ", HOW, then, is that different from RACISM and SEPARATISM? When 'white supremacist' groups called for the creation of a separate state for blacks, hispanics, or any other race, that was met with opposition from the SAME people who call for creation of a SEPARATE NATION for THEIR race now. Sorry, these 'defenses', like a solid that becomes a gas with no intermediate liquid state, are just too ... 'sublime' ...

Farrakhan is an extremist terrorist. Just a black David Duke.

1. Did I claim anything about 'reverse discrimination' ( a term itself I find to be a comical admission that discrimination is real)?

Actually the COURTS opinion involved , specifically, title 6 of the civil rights act which is in agreement with the purpose of AA policies...

2. Lets clarify,, there seems to be a tendency to add to what was posted. The question was not whether Farrakhan is racist(indeed he is), the question was whether he was a supremacist calling for the OMISSION of people AFTER they have contributed to the building of a nation.,the answer to that is NO. What Farakhan was proposing was an optional (not mandatory) place within the country we ALL worked to build where one group could live seperate from others. I dont agree with this particular POV but I do see a difference between that and calling for people to be KICKED out of America.

1. Did I claim anything about 'reverse discrimination' ( a term itself I find to be a comical admission that discrimination is real)?


I bet you wouldn't be saying this if YOU HAD EVER BEEN DISCRIMIATED AGAINST .

Hey, we let Pharrakahn, Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton spew their hate and bigotry in the name of "Free Speech." Well, Skinheads can have their opinions as well.

Doesn't feel good when the shoe is on the other foot! Does it?

I don't think it's a good idea to look for fair and balanced ever coming from the media.

I am glad this event got mainstream media attention.I keep hearing how the tea party is so racist.I didn't see any tea party people waving their Don't tread on my flags at this event or did I see any political signs normally reserved for the tea party movement.The Nazi party also didn't bring up things things normally associated with the tea party such as taxes,supporting the military,etc.Clearly the tea party and the Nazi movement show their true colors at these rallies and both are protesting different things and have little or nothing in common.One is political one is hate.Neither one has the slightest desire to join forces with the other.

You have to give these Nazi's guts though.They go in the middle of downtown LA in small numbers knowing tens of thousands(including the police)would like to beat them to a bloody pulp and speak hate to blacks and Mexicans.Almost like a suicide mission to me.

I am too but don't tell anyone!






They're coming to get me!

I bet you wouldn't be saying this if YOU HAD EVER BEEN DISCRIMIATED AGAINST .



indeed I have,, that is why those who refute discrmination by using the term 'reverse discrimination' humor me. Something cant happen in reverse without first happening,,,,

I also have nothing against free speech. Speech that incites HATRED is not my favorite,, but I would not protest peoples right to use it.

You should try being a single white male in today's political correct society Ms harmony.I can tell you by law if you apply for any type of job that involves the Government you are going to be at the very bottom of the pile.I have applied for Government jobs probably at least 50 times and never heard a single word(except one)despite having a honorable discharge from the military,good credit,two certificates,a clean driving record,and no criminal history.I have had companies tell me that they wanted to hire me but because of affirmative action they had no choice but to give a minority the job even if he wasn't qualified.This was the case when I did my job interview with Amtrak and lost that postion as a car mechanic to a Asian janitor.They said they didn't have any choice as the state can look at all the job applications and question why I was hired ahead of all the minorities that applied violating federal law.They said the had to at least "give him a chance" even if he wasn't qualified.

Don't even get me started on any type of support from the Government.I remember one time I was laid off from work and my boss told me I should go to the job center and apply for Unemployment benifits.When I met with a counselor(who was black)and handed her my application for unemployment she actually snickered and gave me the application back and said "Your white you don't need it".I swear I am not making this stuff up.

Try working low paying jobs.I once worked in a foundry where there was about 90 people working there.The only person who was white was my boss and myself.The rest were Mexicans and blacks.You know how I was treated in that place?Like I had the plague.I have also worked lots of other jobs where I was making the same amount of money and the Mexicans and blacks would always say "Your making twice what we make".It was all BS.The only way to stop the rumors was to show them my paycheck.Many times they were making a dollar or two more than I was.I have had non english Mexicans say all kinds of racist and untrue things about me.Saying how this is their country and I should get out of it.I know this because I understand and speak some Spanish.

When I lived in Norfolk,Virginia it was nearly a all black city.I remember several times going into a burger king or popeyes and just standing there at the counter while the blacks were in the kitchen talking.They looked at me and just kept talking.I could stand there for 5 minutes they would never serve me.I remember getting lost in a bad city once and ended up on a dead end street.I had about 10-15 black guys shouting at me calling me all sorts of names and heard a gunshot as I drove away.When I came home that evening there was a bullet hole in the quarter panel of the car.

I can tell you hundreds of stories Ms.harmony.If you live in the big cities like I have my whole life you are going to be dealing with a lot of minorities who hate white people including business owners,managers,bosses,police,and people who work for the government.

many of the things you describe,,,differential treatment where you are the minority or bad service or not hearing back about a job are not exclusive to white males at all, however,

IT is usually not the norm for people to discriminate against their own, and being the predominate race usually is going to follow that discrimination will be less frequent, but not completely absent. Ignorance crosses racial lines and people can practice discrimination AND reverse discrimination.


The demographics of any region are certainly an indicator as well. If you are a white male in predominately black areas , the discrimination (or reverse discrimination) is probably more likely. Most areas in america are not predominately black. AS to the AA , there are many people in HR and in business who apparently have NO CLUE what they are talking about and make things up. AA policies were not set up to cover UNQUALIFIED applicants, in fact there is NO aa policy one could site which expresses support in hiring someone UNQUALIFIED. I would advise anyone who is blatantly told they lost a job opportunity strictly because of race, to call the EEO and file complaint,,,this is illegal practice.

(In the case of Amtrak,, what an insult to be told they couldnt hire you basically because they wouldnt be able to show why they did....that is the part that would have personally pissed me off,, but thats just me)



I am sorry for your experiences though,,, welcome to 'reverse' discrimination

indeed I have,, that is why those who refute discrimination by using the term 'reverse discrimination' humor me. Something cant happen in reverse without first happening,,,,


Not to burst your bubble BUT I HAVE LIVED REVERSE RACISM FIRST HAND! Try negotiating with six Hispanics bent on kicking your azz. Try the same thing when you are a white man in a black neighborhood with several colored individuals making it clear that "you are in the wrong neighborhood!" Try being the white guy being told that "You would be hired in a second with my skill set if you were ANYTHING other than white." I heard that at Lawndale city hall back a few years ago applying for a maintenance position. Imagine seeing a sign at El Camino college of all things when I applied for a position there that they had their "Quota of white applicants!"

Now trust me. I am trying very hard not to get pissed off. First of all what Ivory Tower have you been living in to say such a thing! You have no idea what living in a nightmare of reverse discrimination unless you are the one feeling it directly.

I spent years getting a private education outside of Public Education and I was taught the whole "virtues of equality" but then to have to live in the shadow of Affirmative Action rendered that all a lie. I hate most Rap music because of all the "Hate White people" sentiments expressed in a lot of it.

Funny thing, a friend of mine was into this Rapper hard core back in the day. He thought it was funny playing this particular song which has the following lyrics in it while we were in his car going somewhere (he is Hispanic) and I QUOTE "Ni@@ers watch Ni@@ers die and ain't nothing going to change because it has been going on for more than 400 years because Ni@@ers are not going to stop killing other Ni@@ers." (To the moderators sorry about this but this song is real, look it up before busting my chops! I am trying to make a point here. Sorry if this offends people but I didn't write the song and also turning a blind eye to this crap will not help anything.) Now imagine how I felt being in the car with this song blaring from it in GARDENA CA! That was actually scary because people get shot here for **** like this. Imagine if me being white I had sung this. The whole "a black man can call another a ni@@er without repercussions because it is our word," is a load of hypocritical nonsense! Coming from the lips of a black man it is acceptable but coming from the lips of a white man it is an insult? And us Whiteys are bringing the black man down?


SAME THING HERE! To listen to someone of another race saying that Affirmative Action is good deserves a punch in the mouth in my opinion! You deserve better than that but reverse discrimination is JUST as sensitive as blatant discrimination.

There is NO Justification either way! Discrimination is discrimination.

I am so sick and tired of all the overcompensation and catering to "minorities."

I am so sick of people wanting to change the moral fiber of our nation to fit the decadence of their lifestyles.

I am sick and tired of people acting like stupid sheep running in circles in a total panic over stupid **** that is way out of their power to control.

On top of that I am tired of the belligerence and apathy of our "elected" officials to applying common sense and financial responsibility in the conduct of their leadership.

But most of all, I am sick and tired of bleeding heart liberals and globalist socialists leading us around by our noses and leading us into certain destruction!

I really hope I read you wrong and apologize if I did but god I hate Affirmative Action like you don't even know!

I'm just skimming the thread, and stopped to read when I saw "Norfolk, VA". (That disclaimer is in case I take something out of context).



I tend to move every few years, and to live in low income neighborhoods, so I have experienced a diversity of cultural circumstances in this country. I can attest that the quote above has a basis in fact, and that the attitudes of the people in that McDonalds is fairly representative of a large number of people in norfolk. I'm not saying its a majority of people in Norfolk, but a sickeningly large number of them. Racism is still very much alive and varies a great deal with the region.

To me, the word 'race' is a matter of genetics, and all of this talk of 'racism' has little to do with genetics; skin color is simply a marker for something which is entirely cultural.

The fact is there are communities of people in which hatred/hostility/mistrust is bred towards people who are labelled a certain way; this occurs amongst the black people of norfolk (though of course there are many black people in norfolk who are more mature and intelligent than this!), and this occurs amongst white conservative christians, it occurs among atheists who tell themselves that fundamentalists and mindless brainwashed drones spreading a dangerous dogma, it occurs amongst white low income anarchists who tell themselves its okay to steal from the rich.

Its really sad when people are born into one of those circumstances, so that they are raised to be a bigot.





I can also attest to this from personal observation - its because people confuse a statistics (white people make a lot more than non-white people in the USA) with individuals.

Some of us want to find solutions to the huge gap in education and income amongst different demographics - and it begins with acknowledging the facts of the situation. But too many twist these facts around to justify an entitlement attitude amongst some - especially amongst some black people. And the 'unequal access' to higher education begins in infancy - it begins with different approaches to food and nutrition/child rearing, difference in income and education of the parents, it continues with elementary schools that have different funding levels, and school staff with different priorities and values; it is effected by a broken criminal justice system... obviously black people are not significantly prejudiced against in the admissions office of any major university these days - but thats only a tiny step in the right direction.

Yeah, 'reverse discrimination' is a nonsensical word pair. To say 'reverse discrimination' is to suggests that one group of people has such a special status as 'the victim', that when it happens in 'the other direction' it needs a special name. It is prejudice, it is racist, regardless of which direction it goes.


Discrimination wasn't even the right word to use to begin with, and I find it annoying that this usage gained traction and is now found in dictionaries. We are really talking about prejudice, racism, and bigotry. Discrimination also means that you differentiate between things that are different - and that is a good thing.

Look at it this way,

radical knee jerk politics fuels

radical jerks of all races, colors, and creeds!

Think Hasidic Jews are friendly? They are just as bad as any Muslim extremist and even Christian Extremists. All three of these groups ride on God and Political correctness for their actions!

in a nutshell,, my opinions

racism = bad
discrimination = good
discrimination solely based in race = bad
INSTITUTIONAL SUPPORT OF RACISM IN HIRING AND EDUCATION = bad

I do not condone or refute that people of ALL races go through PERSONAL experiences of bigotry. The difference in those scenarios and AA has to do with the LEVEL at which the discrimination occurs and the IMPACT it has on ones life and livelihood.

Not to burst your bubble BUT I HAVE LIVED REVERSE RACISM FIRST HAND! Try negotiating with six Hispanics bent on kicking your azz. Try the same thing when you are a white man in a black neighborhood with several colored individuals making it clear that "you are in the wrong neighborhood!" Try being the white guy being told that "You would be hired in a second with my skill set if you were ANYTHING other than white." I heard that at Lawndale city hall back a few years ago applying for a maintenance position. Imagine seeing a sign at El Camino college of all things when I applied for a position there that they had their "Quota of white applicants!"

Now trust me. I am trying very hard not to get pissed off. First of all what Ivory Tower have you been living in to say such a thing! You have no idea what living in a nightmare of reverse discrimination unless you are the one feeling it directly.

I spent years getting a private education outside of Public Education and I was taught the whole "virtues of equality" but then to have to live in the shadow of Affirmative Action rendered that all a lie. I hate most Rap music because of all the "Hate White people" sentiments expressed in a lot of it.

Funny thing, a friend of mine was into this Rapper hard core back in the day. He thought it was funny playing this particular song which has the following lyrics in it while we were in his car going somewhere (he is Hispanic) and I QUOTE "Ni@@ers watch Ni@@ers die and ain't nothing going to change because it has been going on for more than 400 years because Ni@@ers are not going to stop killing other Ni@@ers." (To the moderators sorry about this but this song is real, look it up before busting my chops! I am trying to make a point here. Sorry if this offends people but I didn't write the song and also turning a blind eye to this crap will not help anything.) Now imagine how I felt being in the car with this song blaring from it in GARDENA CA! That was actually scary because people get shot here for **** like this. Imagine if me being white I had sung this. The whole "a black man can call another a ni@@er without repercussions because it is our word," is a load of hypocritical nonsense! Coming from the lips of a black man it is acceptable but coming from the lips of a white man it is an insult? And us Whiteys are bringing the black man down?


SAME THING HERE! To listen to someone of another race saying that Affirmative Action is good deserves a punch in the mouth in my opinion! You deserve better than that but reverse discrimination is JUST as sensitive as blatant discrimination.

There is NO Justification either way! Discrimination is discrimination.

I am so sick and tired of all the overcompensation and catering to "minorities."

I am so sick of people wanting to change the moral fiber of our nation to fit the decadence of their lifestyles.

I am sick and tired of people acting like stupid sheep running in circles in a total panic over stupid **** that is way out of their power to control.

On top of that I am tired of the belligerence and apathy of our "elected" officials to applying common sense and financial responsibility in the conduct of their leadership.

But most of all, I am sick and tired of bleeding heart liberals and globalist socialists leading us around by our noses and leading us into certain destruction!

I really hope I read you wrong and apologize if I did but god I hate Affirmative Action like you don't even know!




I have no bubble to burst. I never stated that you or anyone else hasnt been a victim of racism and I dont find racism something to be proud of or boast about,, so in that you certainly did misread me. My statement about reverse racism was regarding a specific argument made by those claiming RACISM is not real or significant by stating instances of 'reverse racism'.

as far as instances of reverse discrimination in hiring AA does not stop anyone from filing suit and does not support such practices,,, the selection of unqualified candidates is not permitted under federal affirmative action guidelines and should not be equated with legal forms of affirmative action

As to the complaint about the n word, it is an argument that will always puzzle me anyhow. If one tells me that they are offended if I call them an S.O.B,,, it doesnt bother me at all and I dont feel mistreated , even if I hear someone closer to them do just that. Context and relationships have ALOT to do with communication,, thats something I learned in FIRST grade. People in southern regions often refer to each other as SOB,,,and the term is one that they are usually using in such a way as to imply SAMENESS with each other,,

but obviously someone outside of that region calling them by that name MAY have a harder time proving that they are doing so in a sense of SAMENESS.

As far as the rest of it,,,I just suggest you go read up on what AA policies are and what they arent,,,thats all. I grew up in a home where EEO was a big part of my life because it was my mothers career, and the level of misinformation and miseducation about what AA even is , is both troubling and agitating.. AA policies arent perfect and like anything else can be made better, but the majority of what is there is well needed.

AA policies were and are a good thing,, they dont encourage or mandate discrimination(or exclusion based upon race) they reversed age old practices which excluded based upon race to MANDATE such exclusions be done away with.

As a young man, Farrakhan dropped out of college and found work in nightclubs as a calypso guitarist-singer known as “Calypso Gene,” also known by some as “Calypso Louie.” He recorded an original song, “A White Man’s Heaven is a Black Man’s Hell.” In March 2000, the Philadelphia Inquirer quoted Farrakhan saying, “White people are potential humans ... they haven’t evolved yet.” Farrakhan is a white hating, America hating, and Christian hating racist promoted by Trinity United Church of Christ! Question: Senator, how can you justify remaining a member of a church with such loose convictions that promotes bigotry without blushing?

At the Nation of Islam’s Savior’s Day Celebration in 1991, Louis told the cheering crowd that he saw a huge UFO with thousands of people in it and he was taken for a ride. (I really think his followers have been “taken for a ride.”) Louis told the crowd that the “wheel” ship would one day destroy the white man and bring Blacks into power. He also assured the gullible crowd that 1500 smaller planes from the giant “wheel” follow him at all times! Did I suggest that he is a nut case? Question: “Senator, with your influence, would you encourage Calypso Louie to get the mental help he obviously needs? After all he is one of your constituents.” I suppose Obama’s national health care scheme would cover bigots!

Pastor Wright called Calypso Louie one of the “giants of the African American religious experience.” The publication gave Louie the 2007’s “Lifetime Achievement Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. Trumpeter Award” for his contributions to the “African American community.” Among others, Congresswoman Maxine Waters received an award.

In February, 1996, Louis did a five-week tour of the world’s most despotic nations. In Iran, he was reported to have said “You can quote me: God will destroy America by the hands of Muslims…. God will not give Japan or Europe the honor of bringing down the United States; this is an honor God will bestow upon Muslims.” He is not only a nut case but also a traitor to the nation that provided him the opportunity to live in regal splendor on his 77-acre country estate in addition to two posh Chicago homes! Therefore, he is also an ingrate.

Pastor Wright accompanied Farrakhan on his trek to visit Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi and other Muslim middle east terrorists and Dr. Wright candidly said, “When [Obama’s] enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli…with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell.” Well, I think all Obama’s financial support should dry up quicker than that! In 1996, Louis also visited with Yasser Arafat, master terrorist, Saddam Hussein, terrorist monster and other terrorist renegades. Question: Senator, will you disassociate yourself from an obvious traitor, and since the visiting party illegally sought to negotiate with foreign powers will you seek congressional hearings to inquire further into their illegal and seditious activities?” Follow-up: “If not, why not?”

When Obama kicked off his national presidential race on Feb. 10, 2007, he uninvited his pastor from giving the televised invocation because as Pastor Wright quoted Obama, “You [Wright] can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we’ve decided is that it’s best for you not to be out there in public.” I would hate to admit that I was ashamed of being associated with my pastor.

Some fearless reporter should ask, “Senator, don’t you think you should disassociate yourself from Dr. Wright and his radical church if you can not endorse what he preaches?” Don’t expect to hear that question even from a “conservative” reporter.

AA was a blatant LIE. How can you tell me living in a three year period without a job because no one with a worth while job available would hire me based on color? I know what it was supposed to be for. The fact is a black person or white person or Hispanic person should be hired on MERIT AND TRAINING! NOT RACIAL QUOTAS!

This also applied to when I had to get classes back at El Camino and whites got denied classes because of QUOTAS.

You sound like you come from a long line of people working government and pseudo government jobs. There are facts you are presented with and facts the rest of us outside of your system have to live with. AA was struck down by the superior court as unconstitutional!

In all reality equality is a lie thrust upon us by dreamers and intellectuals. We are all different. Equality is something that should be enforced in spirit and not LAW! Without enforcement of the laws we have we have NO LAW!

There was no good at all with AA. None! Don't you get the phrase, "the way to hell is paved with good intentions?"

It isn't paradise if one of us living in it has to suffer! Can you honestly tell me you are so myopic about AA to not see the bad that was built into it?

It was a blatant corrosion of standards. Education (especially colleges) suffered when deserving students with 4.0 GPA were denied attendance to UCLA and USC because of the dumbing down of the standards for "minority" students with lower GPA (ALL THE WAY DOWN TO 2.0 for colleges requiring 4.0GPAs!). We are talking students who busted their ***** to attend and they were denied why? Color! What color? White! Even Asians were caught in the wrong end of this because of some belief they are all well to do!

It is one thing to revise standards but to bias them racially? I mean seriously?

Now filing lawsuits. Who has to pay for the attorney? Who has to pay for court costs? Do you think most people even have a clue HOW to file a lawsuit in the first place? Someone looking for work usually HAS NO MONEY! Seriously, this is the real world, not the world according to some story book reality! On top of that who can wait two years to sue someone over them not hiring me over AA? I have to work to live! Most of us do. We don't have "Family Social Security!"

So what you are saying is it is fine for the government to disenfranchise me to make you feel good about the fact that the government is doing more for women and people of color but in the mean time I have to go hungry and jobless? My aren't we a little jaded!