No i'm not, all i started with is that death is out of our hands, it just happens naturally. As i've said many times, you can not just lay down, close your eyes, and just die right there without outside involvment, as in suicide. You can NOT choose when you naturally die. That was all i said and was getting at.

if death was out of your hands then everyone would be incapable of committing suicide ....since people can kill themselves...this makes death a choice and proves that it's an action

I'm only debating where the bible states that it came from

Yes of couse murder is there, weather you're murdering yourself or someone else. But again you missed my point, i specifically said and i quote "you can not just lay down, close your eyes, and just die right there without outside involvment"

Nottice without outside involvement, this would include poisons, knives, guns, and so on.

This is my last post on this particular subject for you're still going off subject. Thank you for the discussion Funches, may God be with you and bless you completely and fully.

Cowboy...if you can't use anything then it's not suicide...DUH?

it's amazing how you preach about "Free Will" but yet see how even you are trying to take away choice ...don't people have the "Free Will" to committ suicide the way they want to...

Cowboy...and may Satan be with you and bless you with more knowledge

Yes people do have the free will to commit suicide. But suicide is a one way ticket to no where.

so is Heaven

Heaven is a place. Committing suicide is a one way ticket to no where. Suicide is nothing but killing yourself. And what is the 6th commandment?

Found it :D

1Corintians 3:17

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are

Funches, why do you spout this gibberish in response to my post?

Is this an attempt at a strawman argument?

What is that you think I have said?

If you don't find the responce intelligent i would suggest not responding to it. Funches likes to say things to try to get you frustrated and mad at him so that you'll get all flustered up and won't be thinking 100% clear for you won't be thinking totally clear to defend yourself, or say something inappropriate so he can then use that against you. Funches is here for nothing but trouble. All he ever does is argue and deny the lord but never has any form of proof/evidence for his belief.

Thank you for your advice, I'm a far cry from becoming frustrated with him. I am eager to see how capable he is of broadening his thought process here. I honestly think that Funches has one particular concept of 'what it means to not identify with the body', and thus he jumps to conclusions about other peoples meaning when he sees that one piece of their belief system matches this pattern - without looking deeper.

He is also confusing the question of 'personal responsibility' with 'personal identity'.

Funches: If I owned a car that can only be operated with my hands on the wheel (via thumbprint identification) and that car was seen to be driving recklessly and smashing into things - then I would likely be held responsible for that cars actions (especially if I don't have an alibi).

Obviously I am not my car; and yet, in this case, I am held responsible for the cars actions, because it is known that I operated the car.

Being held responsible for the activities of my car is not proof that I am my car - nor is it proof that I'm being mistaken for my car.

Being held responsible for my body's actions is not proof that I am my body, nor is it proof that the judging party considers me to be my body.

You invoke the concept of legal responsibility - but in a sense the law sides with the notion of self-isn't-the-body. Motivation and deliberate intention make the different between a crime and non-crime in many cases. Also, people have been found non-guilty of certain charges for activities done while sleep walking. If your body does something, the courts still want to know: what was your mind thinking, when your body did this?

didn't Jesus defile the temple of God when he had a conniption fit with the money changers..

because you guys are trying to drift off into never neverland .....if you can't leave out of your body anytime you choose then you're stuck with it....you're stuck inside it which means at this point in time your body is you.....let's try to keep the debate in reality

Cowboy...you once said that no children were drown in the great flood because God place all on them on Noah's Ark ....would you have said such a thing in the Christian singles forum....this is only one example of how you resort to lying in a debate ...when a supposed Christian knowingly lie about the bible and God's deeds isn't it them that is here to start trouble ...

if you have lack of control over yourself then you are a danger to yourself and to others and clearly shouldn't be driving a car..you either get help for the problem or be place somewhere where you can do less harm

if you do have control over yourself..then take responsibility for what you do instead of making up excuses that your body is not you

Just letting you know! Wal-Mart is having a sale on hand baskets this week!

Funches, our body is the temple of God. Not some man made building.

if some man made building is not the temple of God...then explain why Jesus had a conniption fit in the temple with the money changers