I will not attempt to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man ...

Yes of course: generalities, posturing, baiting, insults, we've covered your introduction and are clear about your style 'kings_knight'.

Now, anything pertaining to the topic of this thread???

Oh. I see you haven't read the whole thing yet ... I'll wait.

I feel BALANCE is very relevant, but conceding to your belief that it isnt,,,,,

If, to be rational, one must describe circumstances in which they are willing to change their belief system.....I would wonder what such a standard would do to the validity , or relevance, of most posts in this forum(on both sides).

I can say that my belief system, as it pertains to values at least, is not and will not be easily changed(if at all).

My belief system, as it pertains to my world perception and perception of others changes in some way daily by experience and observation of the things around me.

So I guess that fulfills my requirement for being rational.

as to the larger idea of rationality, that is probably best discussed in a philisophical forum,,,, ironically enough when I put in rational vs irrational in my search engine and randomly selected my first site(a philisophical forum) ,,I noticed these assertions in the very first post I read

from, http://forums.philosophyforums.com/threads/rational-vs-irrational-arguments-36389.html

'Virtually all beliefs people hold are supported by an argument."

'Everyone relies on both rational and irrational arguments to support their beliefs'

'rational arguments require the contemplative use of reason to balance evidence, while irrational arguments appeal to immediate perceptions.'



Even in this random posters definition of rational,, balance seems to be relevant. It is much easier to be mislead when only presented with PARTS of a picture than it is when we insist on seeing the whole thing. For me anyhow, BALANCE is the key to life.

I will change my beliefs WHENEVER the preponderance of the evidence proves beyond question that my CURRENT belief about a particular matter / topic / subject is not in accordance with factual, empirical evidence. I have done this several times in the course of my life. I will do it again several more times before retiring to the Dirt Nap Saloon. To NOT change my beliefs when factual evidence exists to prove me wrong is idiotic. That would be like clinging to the belief that the earth is flat when objective evidence proves that it's not. It would be like believing that sodium and chlorine aren't the two chemicals that combine to form table salt. There is a price to pay for willingly clinging to misinformation - or disinformation. I will change my beliefs if for no other reason than to be able to maintain my sense of objectivity and rationality about life. Balance is still secondary. If we can fool ourselves by holding on to outdated beliefs, we can fool ourselves into thinking we recognize 'balance' when we're really in the process of falling.

another philisophical debate for another day, what is objectivity but an ability to balance all the 'facts' and come to a rational conclusion? ,,and even with that, how does one ever know what portion of 'all the facts' they actually have?


take a picture of a beautiful woman smiling,, evidence would suggest she is happy,,,,,but bring to light that this is only part of a bigger picture and then add to it that she is holding a gun and evidence may be suggesting that she is EITHER happy or insane ...
bring to light again that this is STILL not the whole picture and add into the image that there is a little girl standing in front of the gun,,,,evidence may lean towards the woman being crazy,,,add another piece, the final piece, showing a man with a knife behind the girl,,,,,,and evidence may lean towards this same woman being a hero,,,

my point is, that even with 'evidence' , the grey area which keeps us from knowing or wanting to know how much 'other' evidence exists makes rationality extremely subjective to how much we open ourselves up to think OUTSIDE of our limited knowledge and to seek as MUCH evidence as possible, whether it coincides with what we wish to believe or not. Being open to learning new things and being honest about the fallability of all of us, is the most rational approach of all,,IMHO

How does 'balance' tell you what sodium and chlorine combine to form ... ?

Seems to me that Mr. V. is guilty of " generalities, posturing, baiting, insults, we've covered your introduction and are clear about your style.....:

QUITE FRANKLY, I AM LOSING PATIENCE WITH YOUR 'DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO' ATTITUDE....

I suggest you practice what you preach............

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

scientific facts and truth are a totally different standard , but I appreciate the input.

What I am speaking of is truth and fact from a PHILISOPHICAL standard,,as in when it pertains to politics, current news and events, and other uncontrolled and random environments,,,

PROVE PROVE PROVE THAT WHAT I HAVE POSTED "You wrote of '... the true facts and reliable sources',
... and yet, you have only posted erroneous and false statements throughout this thread, without any sources, ... never mind reliable ones!!!
COME ON MR. V.............PROVE WHAT I HAVE POSTED IS WHAT YOU CLAIM ERRONEOUS AND FALSE.............LET US SEE YOU DO IT.


P.S. WHERE ARE YOUR PROOFS OF FACT?????????????????????

YOU NEVER SEEM TO COME UP WITH ANY....WE JUST ARE TO TAKE YOUR WORD AS THE GOSPEL TRUTH.....

MAY I REMIND YOU THAT ANYONE ON THIS EARTH CAN MAKE UP, FABRICATE ANYTHING............SO THEREFORE, PLEASE PROVIDE YOUR PROOF..........

PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH.......KINDLY SO......

Y' gotta remember that 2 humans and 1 six-pack = 'philosophy'. That's worlds apart from objective, repeatable, empirical data ... one may supplement the other, but one will never replace the other.

how do we acquire empirical data in uncontrolled and random environments?


empirical- Verifiable or provable by means of observation or experiment

I have done it. Maybe you missed it. Simply review the thread a few posts back and read attentively.



I posted the links. Again maybe you missed it. Back step through the threads a little. It's quite simple.



You should be ashamed of making such false accusations, when the very accusations you make all apply to you Lady 'lindyy'.
You haven't provided any back-up information whatsoever for any of your FALSE CLAIMS, just self-serving opinions and observations.

You have no legitimacy in 'requesting' any such information of others when you yourself only toss around false information and made-up stuff.

In my case, I did provide links, WHICH IS A WHOLE LOT MORE THAN YOU HAVE EVER DONE, and, I shared my 'google secret' with you, such that you could verify everything your little heart desired.




Again, I urge you to look up 'projecting'!!! I feel very confident we will agree that it sums up your style perfectly.

PEOPLE!!

cant we all just agree to disagree sometimes,,,,or at least, disagree without such redundancy? make it MEAN something folks,,lol



now back to our regularly scheduled projecting,, um, I mean, programmin,,,,

You left out "still in progress"!

oh yeah,,, still in progress (thanx)

I DO BELIEVE EVERYONE HAS GOTTEN

Concerning this thread at this time I do not see that anything will be solved by letting it go on any longer. It seems that it has come down to more of a bashing each other for their opinions then a debate about the Topic in hand.

Please let me remind all that these forums even though they may be public forums they are as well on a owned website that has a basic set of rules that must be followed as well.

Please make sure that your responses are not a direct attack on others opinion. You may debate the subject of the Topic but you may not attack anyone for their opinion.

So with that said I will be locking this thread.....

Thank You
Site Mod
Kristi