as you see the contradictions in your belief ...if you wish to claim that something can not come from nothing then that disproves any believer's claim that their God always was

thats not true..i have a mind of my own and eyes..not to mention rational thought and curiosity...i have seen many things for myself scientificaly..yes scientists state what they say is fact but its up to us to check and validate it.....like i said before the same can be said about blind faith..your mimicing beliefs taught to you growing up...i believe in breaking the norm and doin my own deductions

"something cannot be from nothing"......that means god cannot exist. your own words

You're setting up a poor (actually impossible, IMO) standard. You suggest that a phenomena must be directly observed to be true. If that's the case, I can't prove that Pearl Harbor was bombed, that JFK was assassinated, etc. ad infinitum. If we are to expand our knowledge base beyond what we can personally see, we have to rely on others' experience to some degree or another. Further, since Yahweh is not observable, we can't even prove he exists.

First, you're DELUSIONAL if you think I made that claim in this thread.
Second, the OP asked atheists specific questions, I don't remember the invitation to hijack the thread.
Third, to call me a believer and they say I'm agnosticaly contradicting myself IS CONTRADICTORY!

Peter_Pan...in case your rabbi didn't tell you...it's part of Christian belief that God "always was" ...so go ahead and find other loopholes to deny your Christianity "three times"

This is the idea of belief vs nonbelief, as I posted in another thread about christmas or christ.Those who dont believe in christmas are not being harmed by aknowledging that others do.

My father had a saying when he would hurt himself ' bless my aunt in the country" (he was southern),,,now,, I can and do say the phrase myself although I have no aunts in the country.

People use common terms all the time without necessarily understanding or believing in the actual concept that inspired them. For one who does not believe in Christ to be upset or debate with others who do is about as weird to me as me debating with those who believe in Santa Claus.

I believe in Christ, but if someone else doesnt,,why should they care that I do? If it is just a fable to them,,,then why cant they just embrace it(as a fable) and use it in their life as a mere fable?

I figure that would keep you speechless

I'm not speechless, I really just can't stop laughing.

well in that case...say no to drugs

You really wanna know?
1st, you call me Christian, then assume I have a Rabbi.
2nd, you try to put words into everyone's mouth.
3rd, your logic is soooo full of loopholes and yet you think you're always right.
4th, your logic is one of the most fun merry-go-rounds I've ever seen.

Peter_Pan...it's all part of judeo-christian belief...remember God name was Yahweh before it was Jesus

What a wonderful thread! It proves our country needs a better education system.

Can they teach religion in school other than as an elective? Our country seems pre occupied with training people to become productive in society ,being well rounded or intelligent are not requirements.

hope your not infering being religious or believing in god as well rounded

A couple of thousand years ago or so, a man named Ptolemy came across an obscure observation. He read that in a certain location, on the longest day of the year, the sun cast no shadow. Now, Ptolemy knew that on the longest day of the year, the sun cast a very definate shadow where he was. "How could this be?", he wondered. He reasoned that the only way this could possibly be is if the Earth is curved. Further, he hired a man to pace out the exact distance between the 2 points. After knowing the distance and the degree of shadow where he was, he was able to figure out the size of the Earth to a high degree of accuracy. His only tools were brains and feet. You can do this too, if you wish. The math is not particularly hard.

We don't only know what scientists tell us. Verfication is everywhere. For instance, I'm listening to the radio. I'm gonna go ahead and believe the scientists about radio. And radio waves. And radiation. I know sound moves slower than light. I know this from seeing lightning and then hearing thunder. Therefore I can deduce that sound needs something to propagate it, like air, and that light does not. Little bits of the air must have to move to transmit the sound. Let's call those little bits "atoms". And so on....

These are the kinds of thoughts I had as a child. It doesn't take much to see the verfication of science everywhere. Just a little thinking. No faith required.

On the other hand, I can see no verification, no evidence at all, of anything "supernatural". There is no piece of reality, that any religionist has ever brought to my attention, that couldn't be better explained through science. While I do acknowledge that it is entirely possible I could be in error, I really don't think I am. If God is going to punish me for thinking for myself, than God can kiss my hairy bungehole, if you'll pardon the expression.

I get your point and it is well made.
However, noone has ever done really bad things in the name of Santa Claus. I'm just sayin....

Somehow to me this whole conversation seems like a moot point. The thread starter is obviously just a drama hound. Even if he is serious with his questions that just makes me feel pity for him for being ignorant to the truth. The force of gravity has been explained and reexplained for how many decades now. Plantary bodies are round because Gravity pulls with equal strength in all
directions; therefore any variations from a spherical
shape will lead to gravitational forces that
bring the shape back into that of a sphere. And your proof that gravity exists and is constantly pulling things towards a center?..jump out a window :P..

right...with people with college degrees out of work and some even about to lose their homes...I'm pretty sure if they only took a class in religion that it would qualify them to receive a chrsitian job of dressing up like Santa and ringing a bell in front of a store