You just 'proved' that God had a creator.

Edit: Oops...Abra already said as much.

1. As has already been mentioned, if something cannot come from nothing, then you need to explain where your god came from, and where that came from, and so on, and so on.

2. It's actually pretty simple. Science has evidence of all this different things happening naturally, so I see no need to invoke an invisible, magic sky-daddy for those things that aren't completely understood.

this will answere your post and the previous post. Reason the fact that something can not come from nothing does apply to God. God is the alpha and the omega, beginning and the end. So with God being the begining this rule/law can not apply to him for there wouldn't be any rule/law till God was there if you want to say it that way, cause there was nothing before God.

based on your logic someone had to create God, in your own words, "Someone (or something, however you see it), had to create it."

Of course! Make more excuses for this imaginary friend of yours. You're doing nothing more than semi-quoting scripture. The words someone thought of a long time ago. And for gosh sakes, put a shirt on!

A proof of God that can't be applied to God?

Yeah right. That's preacher talk for sure.

And I suppose the next thing you'll be trying to sell us is the idea that mankind was responsible for bringing imperfections, sickness, and death into the world, and even thorns on plants.

I think I'll skip that lecture preacher, and instead of attending your topless sermons I'll go to a topless bar where the waitresses brings jugs of refreshments.

actually, my post was that He hasnt been DISPROVEN,,,

I know people have subjective opinions about why they dont believe, but I know of no proof that it ISNT true,,

'"fall from grace" be the cause of imperfection and death in the world.'..... depends upon whose definition of imperfection we use, and what the scripture ACTUALLY says (as opposed to a paraphrase) in context with the explanation being given(as opposed to taken as one or two sentences out of context)

He? Who's He? Zeus? Thor? Odin? Yahweh? I'm pretty sure all those have been disproven by the very mythologies that created them in the first place.

If a God does exist we would have no way of knowing whether it is male, female, or genderless. We'd actually need to have proof of its existence before we could determine that.

In fact, any arguments that merely address a notion of a 'creator' can't even say whether that creator would be a loner or not. After all, if we can imagine that one creator exists, then why not infinitely many of them?

For me, the idea of a creator with an ego (a sense of self) just seems truly creepy to me. Such an entity would truly be a freak. Where would it have come from? This idea that it always existed as an individual ego makes no sense.

In fact, the very notion of a God with an ego makes no sense to me. Especially if it's the only thing that exists. In fact, even for that God to create "Something from nothing" would violate Cowboy's sermon. Therefore, if only one God exists, and it creates souls it must necessarily create them from itslef. Therefore it's not truly "Creating" anything. It would just be splitting into various facets. This is actually the pantheisic view.

But the idea of a God who can create "individual" souls that it can then cast into some place of damnation would require TWO concepts that violate the very idea that something cannot come from nothing.

First, the "souls" that would be cast into this place of damnation would need to be "part of God". Because they can't have come from "nothing". So God would be casting parts of itself into a place of damnation. Secondly, the very idea that some 'place of damnation" that is "seperate" from this God would also violate the idea of something coming into existence from nothing.

In short, for ANY so-called "God" to become a "Creator" it would itself need to be able to CREATE things from NOTHING. Otherwise it could only manifest parts of itself into creation. But that would be pantheism and no "He" or "Godhead" is required in such a picture.

So I'm pretty sure that all the "He-Gods" have indeed been disproved. Those myths are better kept for comic books. If a "God" exists, it must work like the Eastern Mystics have recognized. All is God. That's what pantheism means.

I respect your questions and anyone elses,, but they remain just questions,, based upon individual perceptions of concepts like creation , something, nothing,,,etc,,,,,


and they still arent really PROOF that there is not a God(with or without ego)

What you seem to not understand is that IF there is a god, and IF it affects our world, then it has to play by the same rules. So saying if god doesn't need a beginning, or a creator, why does the universe?

Again, you are the one making the claim. You are the one that needs to prove the existence, until then, there is no reason to think there is one.

Well...

It does say in at least one book that he created the earth and the heavens.

Yet the abyss was present before he did this. Else he would not have been able to move upon the abyss.

God created us because we are. We created god because god is and we are.

its called the circle of life.

"God exists because the something can't come from nothing, so the universe had a creator."

"If something can't come from nothing, where did God come from?"



This is just a claim, and does not address the lack of logic in the previous argument. You are claiming that, unlike the universe, God has the special quality of existing without cause. This whole line of thinking just folds in on itself. God must exist because something can't come from nothing, but God doesn't need a creator because something can come from nothing, as long as that something is God, and this is true because I say so.

One could just as well say that the universe has the special quality of being able to exist without cause.

If God can exist without having a creator, then the statement 'something can't come from nothing' is false.

Abra, I disagree. Zeus, Thor, and Odin have not been disproven, they just haven't been found yet. Sure there are inconsistencies in the mythologies, but that doesn't disprove the actual existence of Zeus, Thor, or Odin - just that some of the stories about them must be wrong.


I challenge anyone to prove to me that Zeus doesn't exist. He may not live on Mt. Olympus anymore, but he still exists. No one can prove otherwise.

Zeus bless you.

Those that are his, are able to see his works coming to pass as he said. Those not his, will not see it for lack of knowing, for lack of belief.
Those who believe have proof and those who don't will never have proof. Things told of old are coming to pass today....that is proof enough.

Yes! I'm so glad that you agree with my post, and have accepted Zeus as your Lord.

Praise Zeus!

Since Jesus (supposedly) came and went, EVERY generation of Christian has thought that they were in the end times, and that his return was soon..

So far EVERY generation has been wrong. I can't wait to here why it's different this time.

Actually if you go by this aspect of the mythology, then you should be able to clearly see that this is a story of a loser god.

First, Satan is the one who is supposely trying to "win" souls from God. This is like a poker game of sorts. Clearly, according to the fable Satan is the clear winner without question.

First, Satan corrupts the entire planet save for a very few individual who all happen to be in a single small family (including the wives of the sons of Noah). These VERY FEW souls are saved by God whilst God flushes over all the other souls to Satan (the CLEAR WINNER!)

But the game doesn't end there. They contine to play for souls and finally God CONFESSES to Satan that Satan is indeed winning and will ultimately win ALL THE SOULS, so in an act of pure DESPERATION he sends his "only begotten son" to "Pay" for the sins of mankind.

But even that act of DESPERATION doesn't make God a winner. Even according to the gospels Jesus confesses, "The path is straight and the gate is narrow to the kingdom of heaven and few will make it".

Well, if only few will make it to heaven, that means that the vast majority are bound for hell. Once again, proof positive, and a CLEAR ADMISSION BY GOD HIMSELF, that Satan is the WINNER and God is the LOSER!

Moreover, this whole story only makes sense if Satan is a full-fledged "god" in his own right. After all, if he was nothing but a mere puppet of God, then the whole thing would be nothing but a story of God playing with himself at the expense of human souls.

Clearly this God would have seen Satan as a real THREAT to have done something so despearate as to have sacrifices his very own son! That is an act of an extremely desperate God. A God who is neither wise enough, nor powerful enough to figure out a better solution. In this story Satan has clearly outwitted God.

I suppose like Massagetrade suggests, this doesn't "prove" that this desperate lame God can't exist. But it does prove that the story is inconsistent. On the one hand it claims that this God is all-wise, all-powerful, and cannot be defeated, yet on the other hand it has Satan defeating this God continuously and making this God jump through all sorts of desperate hoops just to win a FEW souls. Souls that supposedly this God himself had created.

Personally I think the stories of Zeus make more sense.