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| Topic: Are we pushing too hard.... | |
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The truth can be mocked but not defeated! Tell a lie long enough it becomes truth to the masses! In lock step they follow to the beat of their facist drums while singing freedom and peace. History while greatly unapreciated has shown the strong is usually unpopular until the steps of war are at your feet then the weak asks the strong what to do? I agree that truth can be mocked, but not defeated. The truth will always be the truth even if not a single person in existence anywhere in creation agrees with it. I also agree that if you tell a lie long enough, it is POSSIBLE to make the masses believe it. Won't ALWAYS happen, but it definitely can and has. Perfect example here is the FALSE statement that the Muslim faith(s) are all for war and annialation(I kwo there is an h in there somewhere lol). The masses do not realize anymore that the Muslim faith(s) are all based upon peaceful coexistence, and tolerance of your neighbor. I also agree not that the strong is continually unpopular, but the right and truth is often unpopular. Look here for example. Truth and fact dictate that it is possible that Major hassan is a victim of being pushed to the side and ignored for medical treatment that he MIGHT have needed in order to prevent this tragic occurance from happening. Nobody wants to believe that this tragedy could in fact be blamed entirely on the military's flawed belief that there is no such thing as mental health disorders. That would mean Major Hassan is a victim instead of the bad guy, which would mean he could not be held liable and the responsible party would be one we do not want to believe is bad. |
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See you are wrong again. You can not state things and demand that it believed when as Daniel stated there are no facts to support them yet. Would you not demand a fair and just trial if you were accussed wrongly, you bet you would. That man, no every living person deserves that right to. Strong is not in pushing and demanding of people to accept ideas that are not theirs. It is not vengence, it is not war, it is compassion, the ability to see thru the webs and see the spider for who she is. Even the spider is smarter than to attack before the fly is caught and condemed in the web. YOU HAVE NO FACTS TO SUPPORT YOUR STATEMENTS!!!!!
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Not you Daniel I agree with you
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I hate to telly ou this cause your just gonna spout off again about how you are right and everyone else is wrong, but I just spent two hours looking for ANY proof of all the allegations against Major Hassad. The only FACTS that are present right now are the these two facts: A: He has an Islamic religion, and B: He went on a killing rampage. There is yet to be given any facts, or proof of WHY he went on this tirade. Everything that I am sure has been brought up in this post and others like it are all nothing but hearsay as they are ALL either "anonymous", or they are a persons personal opinion; and neither one may be admisable in an investigation or a court of law as fact and proof. Now, I am not saying he is not a mmaniacle killer, who acted in a religious sense. I do not know. But I do not know that he IS one either, cause again I do NOT know. Everybody needs to step back, and literally write all the information that has been released down and seperate them into two piles: fact and hearsay. When you are down throw the entire hearsay pile away, and see what you have left over. And remember folks, personal opinion is not fact. And in the case of character references, they have to be given by a reliable source; the "colonel" that released Major Hassan's military files and past "disciplinary actions" is not a reliable source because he broke the law in releasing those said files, which means he can not be trusted to do/say what is right or correct. I never said one way or the other about fighting becoz of their religion nor did condone in any way his act of violence. You are so full of anger. You think you are right but in truth it's attitudes and opinions like your that coz conflict. If your so ready to enilate another life why don't up reup and go over there? You obviously arent dealin with it here. I am not wrong. You are. Decisions made in anger and haste bring only death and destruction. War and death is not always the solution, it only encourages the problem. Let me tell you something I have a long Military history in my family and I have buried my friends and I would stand and do my duty as a citizen any day, so don't go pushing your so special becoz your out for vengence for your buddies. Why don't you turn that into doing it for your Country? Vengence is born of hate and anger. Step on my toes and yes I'm gonna fight back, but to attack people before I know ALL the facts, no. Everyone in this country, American Citizens regardless of religion, have the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty and since you are not Judge and Jury, then what you presume is only presumption not fact or truth. Honestly your answers are confusing and conflicting. Don't bother answering me, narrow minded people are not worth my time. Blessed Be! you describe your self not me! evil can not be ignored thats the point! i fight for my neighbor not just me! if i wait till they come cut my throat its kinda late isnt it? those soldiers deserve justice and vengence in my opinion! i'm not narrow minded you are! you wont admit that this guy was a muslim extremist even though clearly the reports show he was! why? because your the narrow mined one! you dont need a judge and jury to form a conclusion and i have made my conclusion based on the reports! anger and haste? rightous anger! haste....lol its been 40 years! reup? lol.. i am 40 now besides i can help here and elsewhere if i like. you see my statements as conflicting because you have formed an opinion of me as a bigot and when you read them its contrary. your own bigotry doesnt allow you to accept that someone can form an opinion without needing to be accepted or told what to think! my thoughts are genuine well thought out and always conforming to a value system based on truth! i dont take others opinions and repeat them i form my own! I am a realist true and true! Actually i stated that my opinion was based on reports. you call it heresay as if we are in a court of law! you see an officer releasing reports as if the documents they have are fake because the col. didnt have the right to release them. yes he should not of released them but they are out now and they are real and this is not a court of law as if discovery needs to be established lol...this is tooo tooo easy! fact they have his military records! real ones! fact he was a muslim! fact witnesses have stated that he screamed those things i wont say out of resect. but its not heresay if there is a witness! fact his military records show that he was an extremist if any logical thought is used. thats all nothing else DUNKED ON! |
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See you are wrong again. You can not state things and demand that it believed when as Daniel stated there are no facts to support them yet. Would you not demand a fair and just trial if you were accussed wrongly, you bet you would. That man, no every living person deserves that right to. Strong is not in pushing and demanding of people to accept ideas that are not theirs. It is not vengence, it is not war, it is compassion, the ability to see thru the webs and see the spider for who she is. Even the spider is smarter than to attack before the fly is caught and condemed in the web. YOU HAVE NO FACTS TO SUPPORT YOUR STATEMENTS!!!!! DANIEL WAS WRONG AND I JUST PROVED IT....NEXT! |
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OFCOURSE HES ENTITLED TO HIS FAIR TRIAL BUT WE ARE IN THE COURT OF OPINION AND NOT A COURT OF LAW! I HAVE STATED MY OPINION BASED ON REPORTS, DISAGREE THATS FINE.... BUT YOU HAVE NOT MADE AN ARGUMENT THATS MY POINT! ONLY THAT THIS GUY MIGHT NOT BE MUSLIM, WELL YOU WHERE WRONG THERE, NOW ITS WELL HE MIGHT NOT OF BEEN AN EXTREMIST, WELL I AM SAYING THAT I THINK THAT HE IS!
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Not you Daniel I agree with you Lol thanks Cathey. i wondered at first till I read the whole thing, lol. And tha is the very basis of my argument here, that there are no FACTS other than his having a muslim religion, and the fact that he did this horrible crime. Oh and fact that he is an American, born and raised on American soil. |
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No you contridicted yourself again. The fact may be that records were released by now that are released without authorization makes them questionable until proven in a court. The probability of tampering is there, maybe it happened maybe it didn't, but as long as a shred of doubt exists it is not a proven fact. There is no fact in your statement of proving he was an "extremist and that it was in his records if any logical thought is used", that is not fact its guessing, its making it what you want it to say. I doubt very few military men have gone all the way thru without disciplinary action of some sort, that proves nothing. Why don't you guess some more and tell us what it was for? I think your trying to hide your feelings in making it somebody else's fault.
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You think alot Ronny but you don't know. Thats the problem. Somehow your trying to make it real and here it isn't gonna happen. Until you understand how you come across I doubt too many will agree with you. Oh no Daniel your saying exactly how and what I think just better lol
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his military records can not be taken into consideration because they were illegally obtained by a person who showed himself willing to break the law to release them, which goes to suggest that he may not have told the entire truth or even any truth at all. Let's say that Major Hassam WAS reprimanded, counseled whatever, for the afore-mentioned issues. What wasnt stated is what came of the discipline. I can gaurantee you that if he HAD been DISCIPLINED for these things, he would also have been booted from teh military.
I can also say, from experience, both first hand and seeing it happen, that the "discipline" could have been challanged and found to be nothing more than discrimination against him due to his Muslim beliefs etc, at which point it has been proven that he has NOt done any wrong doing. So far no "facts" towards why this happened has been given. I hate to telly ou this cause your just gonna spout off again about how you are right and everyone else is wrong, but I just spent two hours looking for ANY proof of all the allegations against Major Hassad. The only FACTS that are present right now are the these two facts: A: He has an Islamic religion, and B: He went on a killing rampage. There is yet to be given any facts, or proof of WHY he went on this tirade. Everything that I am sure has been brought up in this post and others like it are all nothing but hearsay as they are ALL either "anonymous", or they are a persons personal opinion; and neither one may be admisable in an investigation or a court of law as fact and proof. Now, I am not saying he is not a mmaniacle killer, who acted in a religious sense. I do not know. But I do not know that he IS one either, cause again I do NOT know. Everybody needs to step back, and literally write all the information that has been released down and seperate them into two piles: fact and hearsay. When you are down throw the entire hearsay pile away, and see what you have left over. And remember folks, personal opinion is not fact. And in the case of character references, they have to be given by a reliable source; the "colonel" that released Major Hassan's military files and past "disciplinary actions" is not a reliable source because he broke the law in releasing those said files, which means he can not be trusted to do/say what is right or correct. I never said one way or the other about fighting becoz of their religion nor did condone in any way his act of violence. You are so full of anger. You think you are right but in truth it's attitudes and opinions like your that coz conflict. If your so ready to enilate another life why don't up reup and go over there? You obviously arent dealin with it here. I am not wrong. You are. Decisions made in anger and haste bring only death and destruction. War and death is not always the solution, it only encourages the problem. Let me tell you something I have a long Military history in my family and I have buried my friends and I would stand and do my duty as a citizen any day, so don't go pushing your so special becoz your out for vengence for your buddies. Why don't you turn that into doing it for your Country? Vengence is born of hate and anger. Step on my toes and yes I'm gonna fight back, but to attack people before I know ALL the facts, no. Everyone in this country, American Citizens regardless of religion, have the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty and since you are not Judge and Jury, then what you presume is only presumption not fact or truth. Honestly your answers are confusing and conflicting. Don't bother answering me, narrow minded people are not worth my time. Blessed Be! you describe your self not me! evil can not be ignored thats the point! i fight for my neighbor not just me! if i wait till they come cut my throat its kinda late isnt it? those soldiers deserve justice and vengence in my opinion! i'm not narrow minded you are! you wont admit that this guy was a muslim extremist even though clearly the reports show he was! why? because your the narrow mined one! you dont need a judge and jury to form a conclusion and i have made my conclusion based on the reports! anger and haste? rightous anger! haste....lol its been 40 years! reup? lol.. i am 40 now besides i can help here and elsewhere if i like. you see my statements as conflicting because you have formed an opinion of me as a bigot and when you read them its contrary. your own bigotry doesnt allow you to accept that someone can form an opinion without needing to be accepted or told what to think! my thoughts are genuine well thought out and always conforming to a value system based on truth! i dont take others opinions and repeat them i form my own! I am a realist true and true! Actually i stated that my opinion was based on reports. you call it heresay as if we are in a court of law! you see an officer releasing reports as if the documents they have are fake because the col. didnt have the right to release them. yes he should not of released them but they are out now and they are real and this is not a court of law as if discovery needs to be established lol...this is tooo tooo easy! fact they have his military records! real ones! fact he was a muslim! fact witnesses have stated that he screamed those things i wont say out of resect. but its not heresay if there is a witness! fact his military records show that he was an extremist if any logical thought is used. thats all nothing else DUNKED ON! |
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No you contridicted yourself again. The fact may be that records were released by now that are released without authorization makes them questionable until proven in a court. The probability of tampering is there, maybe it happened maybe it didn't, but as long as a shred of doubt exists it is not a proven fact. There is no fact in your statement of proving he was an "extremist and that it was in his records if any logical thought is used", that is not fact its guessing, its making it what you want it to say. I doubt very few military men have gone all the way thru without disciplinary action of some sort, that proves nothing. Why don't you guess some more and tell us what it was for? I think your trying to hide your feelings in making it somebody else's fault. you dont listen do you! i'm not a juror i am a man with an opinion, this is not a thesis you know! lol.... pobabilty of tampering??? lol you obviously have no knowledge of military documents in triplicate to the power of 29.... your hanging on by a mere thread and it just snapped! its not he was in trouble but his documented statements... i figured it out you really havent looked into this have you? you have no idea what happend huh? well relish in the fact even though your wrong you have lots of company! good luck all i am out! The well informed unite! |
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You think alot Ronny but you don't know. Thats the problem. Somehow your trying to make it real and here it isn't gonna happen. Until you understand how you come across I doubt too many will agree with you. Oh no Daniel your saying exactly how and what I think just better lol lol, I am glad to see I am not the only one Cathey! I am misunderstood, and even disliked by a few, because of the fact that I AM capable of removing myself emotionally from something, most of the time (not always, just ask my ex wife lol), and thus look at ALL sides of it, and DEMAND that others do the same before passing judgement. Even the lady of my heart, who I agree with on most things, argues with me on political issues concerning wether or not certain things should or should not be passed into law because they are or are not christian. As I have told her in the past, ad keep in mind I intend on getting an ordination as a child/teen Pastor and counselor, The United States is not a Christian Country. Period. it is a religious free Country which means the Christian belief can not be taken into any accounting that has to do with govenrment, simply because it is Christian. Doesnt mean it wont happen, but it can ot be the primary reasoning for it to happen either. She refuses to accept this, because of her religious beliefs being as strong as they are, and like many people she sees the United States as being a Christian Country when in fact it is not. |
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After the recent tradgedy in Ft. Hood and the increased suicide statistics I have to wonder if we are pushing our troops too hard. With high pressure assignments, back to back deployments, extreamly tough standards to keep a career going. Opinions? A young man who I have know for many years has been to Iraq and was to be deployed to Afghanistan...he shot himself..he just couldn't do it again. Not everyone is cut out to see, feel, these horrors... Enough is enough..f-ing A...this chit has GOT to stop!! |
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roflmbo, Ronnie obviously doesn't consider verbal changing of words to be tampering with the records, lol; and technically it isn't tampering with the records, but it IS intentionally giving false statements towards the path of making people believe something that isn't true ;-)
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After the recent tradgedy in Ft. Hood and the increased suicide statistics I have to wonder if we are pushing our troops too hard. With high pressure assignments, back to back deployments, extreamly tough standards to keep a career going. Opinions? TO get back on the OP.... I am going to admit to being anti war and anti violence but I think the reality of it is that since we do have soldiers who will have the job of taking the lives of complete strangers in the name of their government/country, perhaps we could screen better the personalities and values of those enlisting instead of just trying to make the numbers. |
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After the recent tradgedy in Ft. Hood and the increased suicide statistics I have to wonder if we are pushing our troops too hard. With high pressure assignments, back to back deployments, extreamly tough standards to keep a career going. Opinions? TO get back on the OP.... I am going to admit to being anti war and anti violence but I think the reality of it is that since we do have soldiers who will have the job of taking the lives of complete strangers in the name of their government/country, perhaps we could screen better the personalities and values of those enlisting instead of just trying to make the numbers. Their personalities change after they have killed another..after combat their personalities are not what they were the day they went and spoke with the recruiter. We can not harm another human without causing harm to ourselves, in some way...because we are truly all one...God's great big family! |
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Very well put Ladylid, this nonsense has got to stop. However I think yu are saying that we need to pull all our troops home, etc correct? I am not saying that, I am saying that we need to start filling our ranks back up again to where they used to be, so that our active duty soldiers do NOT spend more than 6 months at a time deployed, and never two deployments back to back, let alone three, four and five all back to back thus being away from home for over 5 and 6 years.
We need our military, whether people want to believe this or not; otherwise we would not be able to stop other countries from invading us (and yes this means having our military deployed as well). We also need to make sure we have ENOUGH military to ensure that no troop is ever over deployed, like they have been for the past decade almost. After the recent tradgedy in Ft. Hood and the increased suicide statistics I have to wonder if we are pushing our troops too hard. With high pressure assignments, back to back deployments, extreamly tough standards to keep a career going. Opinions? A young man who I have know for many years has been to Iraq and was to be deployed to Afghanistan...he shot himself..he just couldn't do it again. Not everyone is cut out to see, feel, these horrors... Enough is enough..f-ing A...this chit has GOT to stop!! |
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I am not saying that tthe screening process can not be omrpoved, I am sure it can. But the biggest improvement that woudlhelp themost is increasing the number of soldiers we have active dutiy, so our soldiers do nto see all this war and violence NON STOP FOR YEARS UPON A TIME. You can take the sanest person alive, and make them fight in war for five years straight, and promise you they will not be able to pass the entrence physical for mental health into the military. Our soldiers NEED to have down time, and reasonable amounts of it, not just two weeks here and a month there only to return to the same horrific battle zones.
After the recent tradgedy in Ft. Hood and the increased suicide statistics I have to wonder if we are pushing our troops too hard. With high pressure assignments, back to back deployments, extreamly tough standards to keep a career going. Opinions? TO get back on the OP.... I am going to admit to being anti war and anti violence but I think the reality of it is that since we do have soldiers who will have the job of taking the lives of complete strangers in the name of their government/country, perhaps we could screen better the personalities and values of those enlisting instead of just trying to make the numbers. |
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After the recent tradgedy in Ft. Hood and the increased suicide statistics I have to wonder if we are pushing our troops too hard. With high pressure assignments, back to back deployments, extreamly tough standards to keep a career going. Opinions? They should have never gone to both Iraq and Afghanistan . Now they should be brought back . The US foreign policy is a nightmare and should be condemned by any person with an inch of reason and a pin of justice . Killing Iraqis and Afghans is not killing mosquitoes . Killing humans for a well deceived, manipulative and gross policy is WRONG , wrong and wrong. |
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Very well put Ladylid, this nonsense has got to stop. However I think yu are saying that we need to pull all our troops home, etc correct? I am not saying that, I am saying that we need to start filling our ranks back up again to where they used to be, so that our active duty soldiers do NOT spend more than 6 months at a time deployed, and never two deployments back to back, let alone three, four and five all back to back thus being away from home for over 5 and 6 years. We need our military, whether people want to believe this or not; otherwise we would not be able to stop other countries from invading us (and yes this means having our military deployed as well). We also need to make sure we have ENOUGH military to ensure that no troop is ever over deployed, like they have been for the past decade almost. After the recent tradgedy in Ft. Hood and the increased suicide statistics I have to wonder if we are pushing our troops too hard. With high pressure assignments, back to back deployments, extreamly tough standards to keep a career going. Opinions? YES, I am saying end the fighting..I am a pacifist, I have taken a vow of non violence..I am not anti war, I am not anti anything. I am pro-peace! A young man who I have know for many years has been to Iraq and was to be deployed to Afghanistan...he shot himself..he just couldn't do it again. Not everyone is cut out to see, feel, these horrors... Enough is enough..f-ing A...this chit has GOT to stop!! |
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