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| Topic: SHOULD KIDS BE CHARGED AS ADULTS - WHAT'S YOUR OPINION | |
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There are kids who are 11 and 12 or older who still do not understand the concept of death and it's full ramifications. You cannot tell me a child should be charged as an adult no matter the heinousness of the crimes. They just do not know what they do.  Oh Dragoness, I can and do stand by my position. Read pedalac's daughters response, granted she's only one child but one child more than anyone else has posted on here and she's 9. An 11 and a 12 yr old do know whats right and wrong. As parents we may want to protect our kids and shield them from harm, but lets also be real. So I can tell you and it's my opinion that the punishment should fit the crime. If they can take a life, what exactly is it that you believe they don't know... how to get away with murder??? Thank you fran. People do not give kids enough credit. Unless someone has completely sheltered their kids from all media, any shows that show killing or simply just talked to their kids, well then I could believe it, but until I hear that, I will believe that kids know. Yes, my daughter is only one of many, and she is one of many that do know right from wrong. To say an 11 and 12 yr old do not know that killing someone is right and wrong is utterly ridiculous. That's like saying my 12 yr old nephew has no idea that killing someone is wrong. Oh my gosh!! These kids are NOT stupid. Nobody is saying that kids don't know right from wrong but a child that happens to be 8 or 9 is exactly what it is...a child. They do not know or understand fully whats the consequences of their actions will be. They know that they will get in trouble but trouble in a child's mind (9yrs) is standing in the corner. So, when your child knows that killing is bad and wrong does she honestly ynderstand everything else that comes with it? I doubt it... Your doubt is WAY OFF BASE!! My 9 yr old knows that if she were to shoot someone, they could die and she DOES know that she could get in trouble with the police. My goodness people, how stupid do you guys think kids are????????  The way we grew up is so different than today's kids. We grew up watching the news because my parents did, we never saw what todays kids see. If we were talking about yesteryear kids from 30 yrs ago, sure. These kids see so much on tv and computers, so much more that we saw. I can say you really offended my 9 yr old by basically saying she is stupid, yes that's what you're calling her and many other children. Give them credit for crying out loud. |
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Ok, this is a good post to use for my question (not singling you out lol but it provides the perfect setting to ask). A nine year old boy chooses to plan to use a firearm on his father and rommate because he is upset with them (reason doesn't matter). This little boy has just shown that he is capable of CHOOSING to do something he knows will seriously hurt another person, and for the sake of argument I am not gonna discuss whether he understood death or not. He CHOSE to SHOOT his father and room mate knowing they would be hurt badly, becasue he was upset with them; or maybe because he thought it would allow him to live with his mother instead. THIS is a very dangerous person (yes person; you do not become a person at a certain age), and I for one would not want him to be free and loose to CHOOSE to do this again the next time he is upset. Especially considering that by not punishing him for the crime, you are teaching him that it is really ok for him to do so. Let's say he is let free to live as a normal child. goes through school and is bullied or just plain ignored. He has already shown he is capable of violence. He now chooses to act out his frustrations by shooting everybody at school. The boy has to be charged and punished, as well as taught if neccesary, that this behavior is unnaceptable. Just found article on 8yr old, who plead guilty. http://kdka.com/topstories/arizona.boy.shooting.2.939046.html Yes, I'd want to charge him as an adult and would want the punishment to fit the crime. But that wont happen as the state and child have cut a deal. How could you say that? 1st he was 9 and 2nd the police forced a confession out of him What does he know at 9...really? He was 8 and he premeditated the death of his father. As to police forcing a confession out of him that is not mentioned on article I found, his own mother was against the plea deal. At 9 yrs of age, one knows if one takes a gun and aims at another person and pulls trigger, that the little bullet inside the gun has the potential to take the others life. Kids are not as innocent nor ignorant as one would like to believe they are. They may not know as much as adults, but just how much does a person need to know to make them responsible for their actions? Yeah, I agree that the 8yr old would know that the "little gun" with the "little bullets" could hurt someone BUT I doubt that he would know if he could kill somebody. Did he realize that IF or when caught that he wouldnt see mommy again or it was probably bc his dad said that you cant watch t.v after dinner and he got mad. Really, the mentality is totally different... Well said Daniel and excellent point. Unfortunately I don't see some agreeing with this. Sometimes a slap on the wrist just doesn't work.  |
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thank yuo fran, thank yuo very much. my next thread to kill will be...... oh nevermind it's the weekend I will be nice.
Daniel had to go and kill the thread  |
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Well said Daniel and excellent point. Unfortunately I don't see some agreeing with this. Sometimes a slap on the wrist just doesn't work. i agree that a slap on the wrist would not be a good idea in the case of the 9 year old intentionally shooting his father and room mate; which is why I would say send him to juvenile facilities until he is 21. That gives him 12 years in which he can finish his basic education, get the counseling he obviously needs, and be evaluated when he turns 21 to see if he is safe to be allowed into the public. If he is deemed safe, then he is released at age 21 with his basic education, and is also raised and taught what is and is not acceptable methods of dealing with his emotions. If he isn't deemed safe to be released, then long term care needs to be looked into for his future care and well-being. But this is the best possible scenario on the tragedy described. |
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**** it! Lets do what Joseph Stalin stated "No man. No problem." Who cares if he slaughtered a crap load of people? They're probably criminals anyways. LOL!
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It is not a matter of stupidity in the kids.
Understanding the concept of death and all of the repercussions of death are too deep for an 11 or 12 year old to understand fully. It is hard for a 20 year old to understand completely unless they have dealt with it at some point in their lives. The kids really know not what they do. And this is true clear into their late teens. |
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But as I asked earlier dragoness, they are smart enough and intelligent enough to know that shooting someone hurts the person in a major way (for sake of argument; I for one know 6 year olds that understand death far better than I, myself do, and I have seen it first hand in many forms), so what would you have done to protect society from the child that is willing to intentionally hurt someone in this manner? Emotions, and parenting aspects to the side, we still have to protect everyone else as well.
A tangent to this, but still applicable. our soldiers, especially those who went to Nam, sometimes face 6 and 7 year old children who hold grenades, and rifles, etc and are trained and willing to use them on the soldier. What is the soldier to do? Ignore the kid and pray the kid doesn't shoot at them? let's say the child is already shooting, what would you have the soldier do then? This is a very terrible and tragic thing that children are becoming more and more capable of violence, and not just capable but willing participants. Hell, in larger cities in the us, where gangs are prevalant, 6 and 7 year olds are being recruited by the gangs, because they ARE so "trainable" and have nothing to unlearn so far as the gang is concerned. So what do we do? It is not a matter of stupidity in the kids. Understanding the concept of death and all of the repercussions of death are too deep for an 11 or 12 year old to understand fully. It is hard for a 20 year old to understand completely unless they have dealt with it at some point in their lives. The kids really know not what they do. And this is true clear into their late teens. |
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It is not a matter of stupidity in the kids. Understanding the concept of death and all of the repercussions of death are too deep for an 11 or 12 year old to understand fully. It is hard for a 20 year old to understand completely unless they have dealt with it at some point in their lives. The kids really know not what they do. And this is true clear into their late teens. take the 2 examples I posted this topic about, how can you explain to me that a bunch of kids 10 or more with guns, enter a woman's apt, sexually and physically abuse her, her son, for hours had no clue what they were doing? another example a group of kids douse another with a flammable liquid, set him on fire, these kids didn't know what they were doing either? |
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boy you'd have to be a fool to believe a child as old as 12 or 13 has no concept of death.. What world are you livin in... One without dead pets great grand parents or great great ( which I was lucky to have one till 25)... Or the tragic loss of a sick or accidental death of a friend... Must be a nice place there in fantasy land which you probably have no kids in...when I was 12 13 kids were having sex.. I knew a pregnant girl in 8th grade... And had lost a friend.....
I wonder if my 6 yr old doesn't have a better concept of reality than you.. |
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men and women go to prison.... Boys and girls go to juvie.... SICK animals get PUT DOWN.. Be a bleeding heart all you want .some folks just can't be saved and will be killing someone else if given the freedom to do so...
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boy you'd have to be a fool to believe a child as old as 12 or 13 has no concept of death.. What world are you livin in... One without dead pets great grand parents or great great ( which I was lucky to have one till 25)... Or the tragic loss of a sick or accidental death of a friend... Must be a nice place there in fantasy land which you probably have no kids in...when I was 12 13 kids were having sex.. I knew a pregnant girl in 8th grade... And had lost a friend..... I wonder if my 6 yr old doesn't have a better concept of reality than you..    OWNED!!!!
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boy you'd have to be a fool to believe a child as old as 12 or 13 has no concept of death.. What world are you livin in... One without dead pets great grand parents or great great ( which I was lucky to have one till 25)... Or the tragic loss of a sick or accidental death of a friend... Must be a nice place there in fantasy land which you probably have no kids in...when I was 12 13 kids were having sex.. I knew a pregnant girl in 8th grade... And had lost a friend..... I wonder if my 6 yr old doesn't have a better concept of reality than you.. OWNED!!!! LMAO!!! OWNED are you kidding?! He made some good points but he owned nobody. He is simply saying that a 11-13 yr old knows what death is and deserves to be punished. I agree with the 2nd part mainly but the 1st part of his arguement is still up for debate. |
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There are kids who are 11 and 12 or older who still do not understand the concept of death and it's full ramifications. You cannot tell me a child should be charged as an adult no matter the heinousness of the crimes. They just do not know what they do. Oh Dragoness, I can and do stand by my position. Read pedalac's daughters response, granted she's only one child but one child more than anyone else has posted on here and she's 9. An 11 and a 12 yr old do know whats right and wrong. As parents we may want to protect our kids and shield them from harm, but lets also be real. So I can tell you and it's my opinion that the punishment should fit the crime. If they can take a life, what exactly is it that you believe they don't know... how to get away with murder??? Thank you fran. People do not give kids enough credit. Unless someone has completely sheltered their kids from all media, any shows that show killing or simply just talked to their kids, well then I could believe it, but until I hear that, I will believe that kids know. Yes, my daughter is only one of many, and she is one of many that do know right from wrong. To say an 11 and 12 yr old do not know that killing someone is right and wrong is utterly ridiculous. That's like saying my 12 yr old nephew has no idea that killing someone is wrong. Oh my gosh!! These kids are NOT stupid. Nobody is saying that kids don't know right from wrong but a child that happens to be 8 or 9 is exactly what it is...a child. They do not know or understand fully whats the consequences of their actions will be. They know that they will get in trouble but trouble in a child's mind (9yrs) is standing in the corner. So, when your child knows that killing is bad and wrong does she honestly ynderstand everything else that comes with it? I doubt it... Your doubt is WAY OFF BASE!! My 9 yr old knows that if she were to shoot someone, they could die and she DOES know that she could get in trouble with the police. My goodness people, how stupid do you guys think kids are???????? The way we grew up is so different than today's kids. We grew up watching the news because my parents did, we never saw what todays kids see. If we were talking about yesteryear kids from 30 yrs ago, sure. These kids see so much on tv and computers, so much more that we saw. I can say you really offended my 9 yr old by basically saying she is stupid, yes that's what you're calling her and many other children. Give them credit for crying out loud. Read into it ANYWAY that you like but I AM NOT saying that your kid is stupid nor am I saying that children of her age or younger are as well. Your not seeing the point bc you have already made your decision without taking into consideration ANYTHING of what the other ppl POV's on here are. And what's so different from then (back in the stone age as you make it sound) and now? I'll tell you it's just more graphic is all.Kids then had to grow up ALOT quicker than children of today bc they are pampered so don't suggest that things were that much different. Different yes...but total opposite, I think not.
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Edited by
OutkastBoss
on
Sat 10/17/09 05:45 PM
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Sorry if I sounded harsh I'm just opinionated I see your point that maybe SOME kids don't understand EVERYTHING.. Its a shame some people spend more time shielding their kids from the world rather than teaching what real world dangers are about... These are the children that end up on milkboxes or tramautised by their own uninformed sometimes violent mistakes... Even so those kids learn real quick too quick and in the worst way...if they are excused they'll learn that maybe it wasn't bad cause they didn't know better or that maybe they have the power to do such things and get away with it.. In the end even the sheltered children grew in this world and will learn these things ignorance can't be an excuse for atrocity
I think it has to be case by case but whos to decide even then? No matter what is done justice and compassion will conflict.....like someone said before blanket statements are of no use..and no matter what is done w these children people will be conflicted in the result.. Its a shame I feel that punishment mental rehab and life skills need to be taught and the only options seem to be mental hospital..jail or slap on wrist... |
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Sorry if I sounded harsh I'm just opinionated I see your point that maybe SOME kids don't understand EVERYTHING.. Its a shame some people spend more time shielding their kids from the world rather than teaching what real world dangers are about... These are the children that end up on milkboxes or tramautised by their own uninformed sometimes violent mistakes... Even so those kids learn real quick too quick and in the worst way...if they are excused they'll learn that maybe it wasn't bad cause they didn't know better or that maybe they have the power to do such things and get away with it.. I think it has to be case by case but whos to decide even then? No matter what is done justice and compassion will conflict.....like someone said before blanket statements are of no use..  Well Said! |
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thank you kindly good sir
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But as I asked earlier dragoness, they are smart enough and intelligent enough to know that shooting someone hurts the person in a major way (for sake of argument; I for one know 6 year olds that understand death far better than I, myself do, and I have seen it first hand in many forms), so what would you have done to protect society from the child that is willing to intentionally hurt someone in this manner? Emotions, and parenting aspects to the side, we still have to protect everyone else as well. A tangent to this, but still applicable. our soldiers, especially those who went to Nam, sometimes face 6 and 7 year old children who hold grenades, and rifles, etc and are trained and willing to use them on the soldier. What is the soldier to do? Ignore the kid and pray the kid doesn't shoot at them? let's say the child is already shooting, what would you have the soldier do then? This is a very terrible and tragic thing that children are becoming more and more capable of violence, and not just capable but willing participants. Hell, in larger cities in the us, where gangs are prevalant, 6 and 7 year olds are being recruited by the gangs, because they ARE so "trainable" and have nothing to unlearn so far as the gang is concerned. So what do we do? It is not a matter of stupidity in the kids. Understanding the concept of death and all of the repercussions of death are too deep for an 11 or 12 year old to understand fully. It is hard for a 20 year old to understand completely unless they have dealt with it at some point in their lives. The kids really know not what they do. And this is true clear into their late teens. I disagree that a six year old understands death better than you do, unless you have a block in that area. There are children that do horrid things, yes. Whether it is what they were taught at home, shown in society, on television, etc.. or if they are a sociopath in training and get off by doing these things. To assume them evil should never be done because they are children. Children should not be charged as adults. It just isn't right. And our "corrective" system sucks in this country anyway so sending them to jail is like guarenteeing animals on the streets when they get out. |
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It is not a matter of stupidity in the kids. Understanding the concept of death and all of the repercussions of death are too deep for an 11 or 12 year old to understand fully. It is hard for a 20 year old to understand completely unless they have dealt with it at some point in their lives. The kids really know not what they do. And this is true clear into their late teens. take the 2 examples I posted this topic about, how can you explain to me that a bunch of kids 10 or more with guns, enter a woman's apt, sexually and physically abuse her, her son, for hours had no clue what they were doing? another example a group of kids douse another with a flammable liquid, set him on fire, these kids didn't know what they were doing either? Just like I told Daniel, kids do horrid things. Whether taught it, or if they are not well mentally. That is still not a reason to charge them as adults. They are children no matter how horrid their crimes are, they are children. Sending them to adult jail is like guarenteeing animals on release for sure. Our corrective system is a big fat failure to us and it spawns worse crimnals then it send in. |
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boy you'd have to be a fool to believe a child as old as 12 or 13 has no concept of death.. What world are you livin in... One without dead pets great grand parents or great great ( which I was lucky to have one till 25)... Or the tragic loss of a sick or accidental death of a friend... Must be a nice place there in fantasy land which you probably have no kids in...when I was 12 13 kids were having sex.. I knew a pregnant girl in 8th grade... And had lost a friend..... I wonder if my 6 yr old doesn't have a better concept of reality than you.. Since you started with "boy", I know you are not speaking to me. |
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