I believe respect is a very mature abstract concept that young children do not have the capacity to internalize.

They learn early however that actions have reactions. That certain behaviors have consequences. The mild physical pain of a spanking is a cosequence that is easily understood and less damageing than some natural consequences. Example little Joey knows after one swat that flopping on the dog is not a good thing to do. If he is allowed to repeat such behavior he may endure life long injuries from a dog bite.

I do agree that smacking, hitting, belting, yelling, or whipping a child is entirely too extream a form of punishment to teach a child anything but fear and hatred of their abuser.

However a child can learn there are limits that will come swiftly and consistently if they disobey certain boundries if spanking is properly applied. They learn and remember by association that certain behaviors are unacceptable. When they are older and experience the respect of others then you can help them get that concept.

To say that any domination of a child is abuse seems incomrehensible to me. By the very nature of being cared for and making decisions for a child because they have neither the skill or the maturity to make their own decsions is a major responsibility of parenting.

True domination should be benevolent and limited to what is necessary but I do not believe dominateing my child is against his best interests when he has neither the experience or knowledge to know what is best. Example it seems like domination to a preteen to insist that they go to bed when they think plopped in front of the tv is rest enough but most real parents know the child needs to be in bed asleep to do well and not be unbearable to be around when they are chronicly tired.

of course he did

stuff like that just doesn't work on me

fer instance the time I got a brand spankin new .22 rifle for Christmas and I thought it was hilarious to put a bullet hole through the picture of the deer on his John Deere tractor

that was another spanking to remember

The example you give with preteens and tv...PacificStar...

have we not all experienced that?

I don't dominate my children through demanding the tv be turned off...

How I manage this little dilemma, is firstly accept that this preteen is flexing their little 'control of me' muscles...the want to make their own decisions...

so I give them that opportunity...simply by suggesting that being tired tomorrow through not enough rest will make their day more difficult to manage...and that perhaps they may want to consider it.

I then say I respect that they know themselves well enough to make that decision for themselves...and kiss them goodnight, and retire to my room.

We have had a few marathon moments of late nighters...and the resulting tired cranky preteen gets offered the reminder....'perhaps you may want to reconsider your late night tv watching, as you seem very tired.'

There is nothing to defy...no boundary to push against....and the result is that they take themselves off to bed when they are tired...not when I decide they are tired..

My kids are learning how to be self responsible adults...by making good decisions for themselves.



As to the dog example and a little person...."Little Johhny, it is not a good idea to leap on the dog." and remove the child from the dog with the words 'the dog may bite you'.

And again and again and again and again, if such is the case...until the child understands not to jump oon the dog.

Seems more to do with patience and guidance than a smack.

what do you do when little johnny decides to keep jumping on the dog?

i used to decide when i should go to bed....i stayed up alot and usually didnt care that i was tired.

Time outs never worked on me, my mother would have to spend most of her time sitting in time out with me to make sure i stayed.

My mother was never demanding, usually she would ask me once to do something such as turn the tv off..if I didnt listen the tv was put in her room and the door was locked.

I didnt get spanked much as a child, my usual punishment were groundation or having something taken away from me.

Too much tv = no tv

mouthing off = no video games

the worst punishment ever.... having to watch soap operas in the afternoon.

I was only spanked 4 times in the 13 years my mom had me. The reason I went to a foster home was nothing to do with my mom. I still do not believe spanking should be the only punishment but I also don't agree with people that threaten it but dont follow through.

Children should never fear their parents, if they fear them then the parents have crossed the line of abuse.

i did not honestly read the whole thread just part of it...but i am curious did anyone know that until a child is 3 they do not have a cognitive memory so spanking them doesnt really get the point across it just confuses them..as sometimes plain old time outs do.

I guess you people against spanking a child are really FOR kids becoming spoiled little brats, huh? Look how many people in MY generation have become that way, disrespecting their parents, talking back, getting what they want...cuz they parents are not good parents. They don't discipline their children.

When a parent doesn't spank their child, it doesn't mean that the child can talk back or that the child gets what they want. There are consequences to their actions. Discipline doesn't have to mean a spanking.

I don't spank my child and I don't have a spoiled little brat. My child treats me and everybody else with respect.

Today I received a letter from my child's principal. He has invited my child to be in a gifted class as one of their electives because my child scored at the 95th percentile or higher in several areas of their SAT scores.

Thank you for bringing that up.

Good, one of the few.

oh yeah

so you had to go and raise a genius

No it doesn't mean that they can talk back or get what they want, I didn't talk back and almost never got my way. My mom had other ways of punishing me without spanking. Spankings were saved for the more severe crimes, such as when I slapped her.

My child's friends are good kids too.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, does it?

While I agree that natural consequences are a good learning tool; allowing a preteen to stay up late and do as he pleases then do poorly the next day in school while you go to bed is lazy parenting.

Removeing a child from the presence of a family pet 24/7 is neither possible or teaching the child anything. Perhaps you have never seen the damage a dog can do to the tender flesh of a child's body but I would much rather my child learn from the much less permanent pain of a swat on the behind than multiple surgery's from a dog bite.

That a child is placed in a gifted class does not mean they have learned to accept that there are boundries or authority in our lives that we have to submit to to be successful in this life.

It is true children learn to make decisons by making decisions. But children that are made to believe that they get to make all their own decisions grow into adults who think their judgement is superior to their bosses and that usually computes to someone who defy's authority and can't keep a job.

It is sad indeed when a pampered child finds his first submission to authority is when they flunk out of school or find a billy club upside their head when order to do something by a police officer.

YOU have a angry sister who's needs were not met in child rearing years she is angry her mother is ill and knows she can take advantage of her and as you can see there is nothing you can do because she knows you wont do it!

She has no limits, no empathy, no guilt or fear! She is free to do what ever she pleases and that is the truth.

how to solve:

1. tell your mother to cry every times your sister hits her just buckle down and keep saying, I'm sorry I'm not the mother i should have been.. Teach this child Empathy, let her see the pain in this womens face.
2. To arrest her will only make her more violent in the end it is not a way too go..

Take your sister in your arms and hold her tight, tell her how much you love her, she is so hurting inside, she is so angry at you and your mother and life and in her self. don't turn her away for that will make her stray.... she needs love not the Police to take her away.

it will not be easy and it will not happen over night but tell mom to just stick in there and cry.. and scream and tell her how sorry she is.. again teach that child empathy..

take her too grave yards, and convalescent homes to volunteer her time, if she plays a instrument or sings then set it up they always love company.

Let her visit the sick and poor in a food bank or food kitchen, teach her to be human and to have concern for more then herself in life.

I hope this helps, there is no simple easy lesson the child is too old to learn but give her a heart and she will develop a soul and that is all you can do.

hope it helps

Did you know in the bible it says: Fear God, and if God is in the image of mankind, then think what man understands.. A father should be feared to be respected by his family and children? crazy but that was the 50's thinking...

Kids wait until your father gets home? and one by one they stood in line confessing there sins of the day, as daddy sits in a chair and bend the kids over his knees. with a shaving belt or a paddle some even just used there hands...

The child got spanked and could not let out a peep! or they got another one!

in that day and age the women though that Man was the ruler of the house and it was his job to show the kids that mother was the boss.

However, who was hated! the mother ? or fathers ?.. neither of them for they both were "=" why because one gave cookies and the other gave money! The end.

Lmao!!!

The eldest male non spanked child (now 24) has just left the Australian Defence Force after 5 years in the Special Forces, two tours, and received honours for his service....he is also the loving partner of an incredible woman, who also was not spanked as a child...they volunteer their time at a nursing home...as well as in the children's hospital.

The eldest female non spanked child (now 20) manages a hostel for international guests, as well as volunteers every friday and one weekend a month at the local high school, training kids in the Army cadets.

The youngest male non spanked child (now 14) works two jobs, attends high school and mows lawns for elderly folk here, who are too frail to do it anymore.

The youngest female non spanked child (now 12) is House Sports Captain and Student Leader, an award winner at the State Youth Literary Awards...and an accomplished circus hoop performer who volunteers her time in Nursing Homes entertaining the elderly, as well as performing at Festivals.


Nothing spoilt nor demanding about these non spanked kids.. and nothing remotely brattish either.


Your theory wont hold water, Mate.

Spanking is for ADULTS!

Shows Jess my round toned untanned "target"
Butt, turnabout is fair play....

Walk me through this one, will you?

I have three children, one of 21, one of 19 and one of 18.

So, by your theory you find that parents who have never spanked their children, are not good parents?

Tell me what a good parent is? What a bad parent is?

And also, you mention that children who are not spanked become spoiled little brats...

pros:

it's easy

you get a quick, immediate, short term result.

cons:
can be construed as abuse by some (including the child, which may cause psychological issues and hinder parent-child bonding later)

it may also teach the child that hitting "out of love" is NOT abuse but perfectly fine in the wider society and in adult relationships.

teaches the child to resolve conflict or correct undesired behaviours from others with violence.

is not (by itself) an effective behaviour modification tool (child may just see "getting caught" as the problem, not the behaviour)

does not (by itself) effectively teach children why the specified behaviour is wrong.