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| Topic: Riddle Me This, Those From All Religions. | |
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Can you name a third kind of pain?
I think there is only one kind... of pain. We create our own emotional pain by passing judgements on what we see.
Mourning requires no judgement. Emotional distress does not equate to pain. The concept of emotional 'pain' is very misleading. I see, so you're just dismissing emotional distress as even qualifying as pain at all. I suppose in a way I agree with you. This is basically what I mean when I say that emotional pain is entirely subjective (based on our own judgements of how we percieve things) So this actually reduces any concept of 'evil' to being only associated with physical pain. Absolutely. I realize these may seem like harsh concepts to accept. But they're true. To deny them would be silly.
Call me silly...  Well, I guess so. You seem to be in agreement and disagreement at the same time. I confess, this certainly seems silly to me. Man defines 'God'... There is only one way to define evil. Ok, I see your point now. You're taking a hardcore atheistic point of view and just denying any possible existence of God outside of man's imagination. I'm viewing the concept from an agostic point of view allowing the possibilty that some conscious spirit might possibly exist. I see no reason to rule that out since I can't disprove it. My stance is, however, that I feel I can disprove and reject concepts of spirit that conflict with their own definitions of what that spirit must be (i.e. obviously false mythologies such as the bibilcal myth). This doesn't rule out all possiblities for sentient spirit. It simply denies certain definitions. This is why I said that the questions Epicuras raises only applies to a certain class of 'gods'. I can imagine 'gods' that exist yet are not dismissed by the concerns of Epicuras. Because Epicuras' concerns are entirely based on the concept of 'evil'. But I can imagine the existence of Gods were there is no such thing as evil. It simply doesn't apply because the things that we normally deem to be evil simply aren't evil from the vantage points of those God. If these things aren't evil from the vantage point of the Gods, then evil has no actuality. It's merely a human perception based on a misunderstanding of actuality. So the quote of Epicuras wouldn't apply to those Gods because the very concep of evil that Epicuras refers to is not evil at all. The God's aren't doing anything wrong. Therefore they would not be malevolent as he suggests. In the case of the Biblical God this can't apply because the Biblical God himself demands that certain things are EVIL. This is where the judgement part comes in. Only God's that judge things to be evil can be accused of being malevolent. A non-judgmental God cannot be accused of being malevolent. Do you see the difference? There are philosophical pictures of non-judgemental Gods. The concerns of Epicuras would not apply to non-judgemental Gods because the whole foundataion of Epicuras' concerns is based on the idea that God is allowing evil to occur and is therefore malevolent. But if evil is a false premise, then so is the conclusion that God is malevolent. Epicuras has ruled out the Biblical picture of God, but he in no way has ruled out the abstract notion of a God in general. |
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No matter what faith you subscribe to, if you believe in one all mighty power that be, answer me this: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god? - Epicurus. I'm sure some of you have seen this quote before, and I'm not posting it to be a smart alec or rub you up the wrong way or anything of such nature. I am having a lapse in what was once a strong personal belief in god, for personal reasons I would rather not go into. However, this quote really struck something in me, and has made me question faith in general (not just my own), as I really cannot find an answer to the questions posed in this verse. Anyone willing to clarify how it can be disproven using logic are welcome to reply. I would welcome anyone to try and help out, because I'm pretty much lost for an answer... 
http://ecclesia.org/truth/professor.html
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That story is such BS. If that prof in the story had been real he could have easily turned that back around on this kid and pit him back into his place. This story though is make believe, written only to make a half-aszed argument for christians who live in their own little world were stories written several thousands of years ago can tell them more about the world than going out and using their senses and brain can. |
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That story is such BS. If that prof in the story had been real he could have easily turned that back around on this kid and pit him back into his place. This story though is make believe, written only to make a half-aszed argument for christians who live in their own little world were stories written several thousands of years ago can tell them more about the world than going out and using their senses and brain can. Truly. This lame story start out with the line, "LET ME EXPLAIN the problem science has with Jesus Christ." Well, that's already a lame claim. Science isn't out to crucify Christ. It's the Christians who are the ones who are out to crucify science! So they make up these utterly absurd lies about supposed school teachers trying to denounce Christainity in the class rooms. If any professor did the things this story claims he would be breaking so many laws it wouldn't be funny. The story was written by idiots trying to make it look like scientists are both idiots and atheists. A lot of scientists believe in spirituality (perhaps not the Zeus-like God of the Bible), but they believe in spirituality none the less. Notice too how the Christians made an extra effort to start this story out as an attack on Jesus! That's ridculous right there. I know for a fact that a there are a lot of people who feel like I do. They recognize Jesus as a man that was murdered and abused by religious zealots. Besides, if the conversation was about God being responsible for evil this would have been about the Old Testament anyway and certainly not about Jesus. Jesus himself denounced the ways of the God of the Old Testament. In fact, that's precisely why most Chrsitains find him so attractive. Take Jesus out of the story and they'd flush the Old Testament down the toilet. In fact, they totally denounce Judaism which is precisely the Old Testament without Jesus. So they've already rejected that. The Christians are the ones who have pitted themselves against science. All because of the simple FACT that the book they worship doesn't agree with the real world. 
This is why Christianity has pitted itself against science. Science is the investigation of the real world, and the Bible doesn't match up with that TRUTH. The Bible should have been discarded way back when we realized that the Earth isn't the center of focus of all creation. That pretty much blew it out of the water right there, but for some ridiculous reason people are still arguing for the book even today. They now need to deny that the world is billions of years old. They need to deny evolution. They need to deny the fact that death, disease, and natural disasters have been a part of the natural world long before mankind ever came onto the scene. Science isn't out to disprove any particular religion. Science is just interested in discovering TRUTH. Religion need to suppress TRUTH in order to keep it's absurd superstitious claims above water. But it's not doing a very good job and must necessarily fail, just like it has always failed in the past. The Earth is not the center of the universe. The Earth is billions of years old, not thousands. Mankind did indeed evolve from lower life forms. Mankind cannot possibly be responsible for introducing 'sin' into the world. The religion is a false myth. And making up stories about supposedly stupid professors who claim that science rejects Jesus and then loses his arguments with his Christain students is truly lame. Truly lame. 
This is the epitome of desperation of a dying religion. |
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In answer to the OP:
Evil.. is ..the.. ABSENCE.. of... Good. That says it All. Have a Good day, Everyone. 
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No matter what faith you subscribe to, if you believe in one all mighty power that be, answer me this: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god? - Epicurus. I'm sure some of you have seen this quote before, and I'm not posting it to be a smart alec or rub you up the wrong way or anything of such nature. I am having a lapse in what was once a strong personal belief in god, for personal reasons I would rather not go into. However, this quote really struck something in me, and has made me question faith in general (not just my own), as I really cannot find an answer to the questions posed in this verse. Anyone willing to clarify how it can be disproven using logic are welcome to reply. I would welcome anyone to try and help out, because I'm pretty much lost for an answer... God has done no evil... Mankind has. If That Which Is Called God were to prevent evil,in essense it would remove from Mankind a small thing called free will. We make choices. Some of us make choices which advance the race of mankind. Some of us make choices which cause evil to appear upon the earth. Without evil would we truly appreciate the gifts given us? |
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God is god. He does what the hell he wants Where he wants When he wants With who he wants Or is it a she...... |
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Why does everyone say God in their sentences. God this and God that??
Goddess for crying out loud! A beautiful Halle Berry look alike with wings and a tight black leather outfit. No whip though okay. She is responsible for evil? NO! mankind created it to keep people at bay! It is all winds down to a business in the end. Has nothing to do with the welfare of mankind. Evil and Good, Good and Evil He say she say, She say he say A game of cat and mouse with no end to it as everyone knows better about what a Goddess has created for what purposes or not as in reality we don't know at all that is if we are truthful to ourselves and with others |
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God has done no evil... Mankind has. If That Which Is Called God were to prevent evil,in essense it would remove from Mankind a small thing called free will. So what? The Biblical God threatens to cast everyone into hell for doing bad things anyway. So he's ulimately going to punish them for having used their free will. That wouldn't make much sense. Also, this again ignores the fact that the nature herself is inherently evil (assuming we consider nasty things to be evil). If nature kills people would that be considered to be GOOD. But if a man kills something then it would be considered to be EVIL? Wouldn't that be a double-standard on the very definition of what Evil even means? There's just no way that anyone is going to convince me that evil can be pinned onto mankind, or that it's even required to have 'free will'. Our so-called 'free will' is already restricted greatly anyway. There are many things we don't have the free will to do because of physical limiations. So our free will has already been confined. Why stop there? Why not restrict it a little further and prevent us from doing 'bad' things? The only excuse could be if life was some sort of TEST. But that's not the Biblical story. The biblical story doesn't claim that we are being tested. It claims that we already FELL from grace! We already LOST the test! We have no choice but to covert to the CHURCH and WORSHIP their DOGMA and SUPPORT their bigoted agendas in the name of GOD! 
If we fail to worship the Jews as having spoken for God we are considered to be HEATHENS.
The Jews are the ones who claim that mankind is responsible for bringing SIN into the world! They are the ones who made up that myth. Today we KNOW better! We caught them in a boldfaced lie! |
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You hit the nail on the head Abra. The religious follow a simple rule that makes there lives easy.
Ignorance is bliss. |
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In answer to the OP: Evil.. is ..the.. ABSENCE.. of... Good. That says it All. Have a Good day, Everyone.
Good and evil are human constructs used only to give more weight to social norms. They are religious myths created for mass population control. |
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Good and Evil, Evil and Good
Sin and no sin, Sin with more sin, sin without a sin Life full of negativity, fearing, and worrying in the end Why follow a religion that does these things to mankind? More on this here http://mingle2.com/topic/show/223692 |
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You hit the nail on the head Abra. The religious follow a simple rule that makes there lives easy. Ignorance is bliss. Well it's crazy. They try to make out like intelligent sincere scientists are heathens out to destory their religion. Yet their religion is truly nothing more than giving 100% credence to a bunch of yo-yo's who claimed to speak for God in antiquity. It's ridiculous. It's clear that the men who wrote the Bible made things up that simply aren't supported by reality. They weren't even creative enough to invent a whole new mythology, they just borrowed the common concepts (such as a God that is appeased by blood sacrificies) from preexisting mythologies. It's so obviously bogus it's ridiculous.
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I see, so you're just dismissing emotional distress as even qualifying as pain at all.
I suppose in a way I agree with you. This is basically what I mean when I say that emotional pain is entirely subjective (based on our own judgements of how we percieve things) So this actually reduces any concept of 'evil' to being only associated with physical pain. IF pain is the only attribute. Well, I guess so. You seem to be in agreement and disagreement at the same time. I confess, this certainly seems silly to me.
I am not sure what substantiates this conclusion. Ok, I see your point now. You're taking a hardcore atheistic point of view and just denying any possible existence of God outside of man's imagination.
Not exactly James, I am saying that any description of 'God' comes only from man. That does not deny the existence of a 'God', it denies the ability of a human to know what 'God' would be like, and therefore no man could give an acurate description of that which is in itself unobservable. I'm viewing the concept from an agostic point of view allowing the possibilty that some conscious spirit might possibly exist. I see no reason to rule that out since I can't disprove it.
Agreed. My stance is, however, that I feel I can disprove and reject concepts of spirit that conflict with their own definitions of what that spirit must be (i.e. obviously false mythologies such as the bibilcal myth).
This doesn't rule out all possiblities for sentient spirit. It simply denies certain definitions. This is why I said that the questions Epicuras raises only applies to a certain class of 'gods'. I can imagine 'gods' that exist yet are not dismissed by the concerns of Epicuras. Because Epicuras' concerns are entirely based on the concept of 'evil'. But I can imagine the existence of Gods were there is no such thing as evil. It simply doesn't apply because the things that we normally deem to be evil simply aren't evil from the vantage points of those God. If these things aren't evil from the vantage point of the Gods, then evil has no actuality. It's merely a human perception based on a misunderstanding of actuality. So the quote of Epicuras wouldn't apply to those Gods because the very concep of evil that Epicuras refers to is not evil at all. One can believe anything that they think makes sense... anything they choose. The God's aren't doing anything wrong. Therefore they would not be malevolent as he suggests.
One can justify whatever s/he chooses... how is that any different from a belief in the 'God' of Abraham? Evil exists... call it whatever you like. Torturing another human only for the benefit of the torturer is evil. If one gains pleasure through the intentional and deliberate torture of another human, for no other reason than to gain pleasure without remorse nor consideration of any other aspect regarding those acts... that is evil... Or you can rename it... Renaming does not remove it's existence. This is where the judgement part comes in. Only God's that judge things to be evil can be accused of being malevolent. A non-judgmental God cannot be accused of being malevolent.
Or benevolent... 
Do you see the difference?
I recognize that the attempt to apply the possibility for benevolence must also include the possibility of malevolence. There are philosophical pictures of non-judgemental Gods. The concerns of Epicuras would not apply to non-judgemental Gods because the whole foundataion of Epicuras' concerns is based on the idea that God is allowing evil to occur and is therefore malevolent. But if evil is a false premise, then so is the conclusion that God is malevolent.
Epicuras has ruled out the Biblical picture of God, but he in no way has ruled out the abstract notion of a God in general. There can be imagined another 'God' which 'exists' unaffected by Epicurus' argument. One which 'created' and walked away.
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You hit the nail on the head Abra. The religious follow a simple rule that makes there lives easy. Ignorance is bliss. That's a pretty ignorant statement. How do you know what rules religious people follow - not being one yourself? |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Thu 05/14/09 12:43 AM
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Satan over the centuries, has always tried to infiltrate and work within the church. This is one of the greatest tactics the enemy ESPECIALLY used thruout history.....and is still using today..... and that is , targeting and using unGodly " religious" men ....to do the devils's dirty work. These were/are the ungodly men who would just use Christianity for their GAIN , and therefore , were/are an easy target for the enemy to WORK THRU AND USE... and as a result..... the great atrocities done in the Name of the Christian RELIGION. NOTICE !!!! I said RELIGION..cause men who did these great atrocities ... CERTAINLY DID NOT have a RELATIONSHIP with God !!! And then WHO Gets the Blame for all the atrocities done? Aha!!! YOU GOT IT !!!!! TADA!!!! CHRISTIANITY!! AND CHRIST JESUS !! WHOM CHRISTIANITY REPRESENTS!! Cunning and clever ole devil, aint he ? 
And Oh how ole sluefoot just LOVES to see people TURNING AROUND AND THEN BLAMING THESE ATROCITIES ON CHRISTIANS!!!! OH HOW the devil just ABSOLUTELY LOVES to work thru "RELIGIOUS" FOLK!!!! Slick ole devil. All clever tricks of the enemy to cause MANY people to turn AWAY from Christianity and Christ .... and thus, wanting ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH CHRIST. And sadly Christ Jesus and True Christianity (which ONLY comes by having relationship....NOT RELIGION .... with God, by becoming born again) GETS ALL THE BLAME !!! WHEN IT WAS ACTUALLY SATAN WORKING THRU UNGODLY PEOPLE ... WHO WAS THE REAL BLAME !!! So..... what BETTER way for the devil to turn people away from God, then to SIT AND WORK RIGHT IN AND THRU THE CHURCH!!! 
Oh sneaky sneaky devil!! Precious People here..... it's TIME TO WAKE UP!!
The enemy has no need to bother with Buddhism or Hinduism or ANY other world religions... simply because these other religions , are NO THREAT to satan !!!! JESUS IS THE ONLY ONE ,WHO IS A THREAT TO THE DEVIL!! AND CHRISTIANS!!! CAUSE SLEUFOOT KNOWS REAL CHRSITIANS HAVE THE SAME AUTHORITY IN JESUS NAME....AS JESUS DOES.....TO COMMAND THAT OLE DEVIL TO GET UNDER OUR FEET! HENCE SATAN'S NEVER ENDING VICIOUS ATTACK ON CHRISTIANITY AND ON CHRISTIANS!!! And by the way...the enemy working SNEAKEDLY WITHIN the church.... in an attempt to TURN as MANY people AWAY from Christ as possible.... WAS HIS SNEAKY PLAN...ALL ALONG... EVEN FROM THE VERY BEGINNING... WHEN HE FIRST TEMPTED ADAM AND EVE IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN!!!! And today...even on this forum,...the devil is STILL up to his SAME OLE TRICKS... and people are falling for his tricks..... HOOK...LINE...AND SINKER!! Praying people will WAKE UP HERE...AND REALIZE THE WILES AND SCHEMES OF THE ENEMY.. WHOSE PURPOSE is to TAKE OUT AS ANY SOULS AS HE CAN... cause he KNOWS his time is short!!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!! Please....wake....up...before it is too late. TIme is short. Very short. Please listen now... asking God to open EVERYONE'S spiritual eyes and ears now..... so you ALL can see and hear now... In JESUS MIGHTY SAVING NAME...AMEN!!!
Love You All.
So does God.
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God is god. He does what the hell he wants Where he wants When he wants With who he wants Or is it a she...... I think the belief is that whatever happens to the body, and in the physical, is to make the spirit, or soul stronger by leaving an imprint. An inner journey. *ducks* *covers* |
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In answer to the OP: Evil.. is ..the.. ABSENCE.. of... Good. That says it All. The fallacy in that is pointed out in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYvwKJp3mxk&feature=channel_page |
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You hit the nail on the head Abra. The religious follow a simple rule that makes there lives easy. Ignorance is bliss. That's a pretty ignorant statement. How do you know what rules religious people follow - not being one yourself? Because. It's in a freaking book. |
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There are no such things as devils and demons
Only such things exist in the minds full of imagination Unfortunately some believe they really exist! (------------- The demon I find the most scariest 
Yet if one insists on believing in such fairy tales then stop reading the bible. It is boring and contradictive. Read instead one of my fantasy novels. Plenty of demons in there and good heroes who smight them down for you. 
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