I have not seen any 'video' on the Law of Attraction. I did see one on "the secret" and it was ridiculous. It is no wonder people who watch that think the way you do.

If you really wanted to know more about it you would read the book(s) and more material on the subject. Have you even read "The Science of Getting Rich" by Wallace D. Wattles? NO probably not.

You will not do these things because you are comfortable believing the way you do and believing that you have no control over you life and that things "just happen" to you and others and they have no control or say in the matter.

As for people who die:
We all know that everyone dies eventually. There are millions of ways to die in this world. Take your pick!!

We did not come here expecting to live forever or to live perfect lives and even if you believe you "did not come here" and that you were born here by no fault of your own, you do realize that YOU WILL DIE here some day.

These are the laws. You live your life and you die. Does it matter how????

Do you feel sorry for people who have died? Well guess what????? YOU WILL DIE ONE DAY TOO.

That is the law in this world. You live and you die.

If you want to believe that you have no control what so ever of anything in your personal life and experience and if you want to continue to believe that you are a victim of circumstance that is how you will live your life until the day you die.

THAT IS YOUR CHOICE.

And as I have said before many many times, I care not what you choose to believe. That is for you to decide.

I am not trying to convince you of anything. If you do not want to learn about the law of attraction then do not read these posts.

Bull crap. You cannot both ignore and observe a thing. You state that you "do precisely that.." when I said that you should ignore other peoples negative reactions then you say that you "observe...blah blah.." and your observations reinforce your beliefs that you cling to and affirm over and over and over.

No wonder your life is the way it is. You made it so. So be it so it is.

You should NOT believe in the law of attraction.

Believe what you want. You life will not change until your beliefs change.


I do not want you to believe in the law of attraction. I am not trying to convince you to believe in the law of attraction. DO NOT BELIEVE IN IT. THAT IS YOUR CHOICE.

Exactly the same. If you dont get what you wanted, then you are doing it wrong.

Sum = Whole

No true Scotsman in regards to ideas and desires.


The problem here is that it is true but in a much less mystical way.

IF you want something, keep a positive outlook, and work hard then you have increased the probability of being successful, no magic here, no universal subconscious mind at work needed.

I mean its no different then deciding you want something and instead of doing nothing which = 0 probability of accomplishing your goal, to actually doing something = >0 probability.


Like I said JB if you want to prove this exists which I think you should do if you think it might, then you need to find a set of objective criteria that = a valid desire.

This way you can objectively mark a given outcome as likely if the law of attraction exists in the way you have explained it.

Otherwise this falls under confirmation bias.

Not exactly. If you don't get what you want it is because you think more about what you don't want than about what you do want.

You are doing it "right," you are simply attracting what you don't want. There is no "wrong" way to attract things into your life. You just do. If you are getting things that you don't want, it is because you think about and talk about that and observe that and believe that is what you have and will continue to have.

Abra gets what he believes. He gets what he affirms. He gets what he writes and complains about. He gets what he says he always gets because he thinks about it, and he believes it, he writes about it and he talks about it. He admits and insists that he is a victim of circumstance and that he is powerless to change it.

He is obsessed with it.

He is a perfect, nice, happy, cheerful loving man who no matter what he does he attracts nasty mean people into his life.

This is what he affirms. This is what he believes. This is what he observes. This is what he states and writes about. He is a victim of circumstance. (He admits this...no, he INSISTS THIS IS TRUE!

He is what he thinks he is. His life is what he thinks it is. His reality is what he thinks AND BELIEVES it is!

He is the perfect example of how the law of attraction works!

Nothing will change in his life until his core beliefs change. Changing your core beliefs will change your vibrations.

That is not good enough. Do it scientifically. You need more than just one person. You need at least one who wants, but will do nothing to get, expecting only that what they want to placed on platter before them. Then you need one person who will work towards achieving their desire. Then one who doesn't want and won't work work for it. And one more to work for it but not want it. But this experiment is as absurd as the original idea.

You can prove that it is true if you understand how it works. You can prove it to yourself.

If you do not understand how you keep attracting what you don't want instead of what you want, then you cannot prove anything.

Just because you don't understand it or have not mastered it, does not mean that it does not work.

The law is exact. It never does not work. If you trust in that premise, then you can move on to what you are doing and why you are attracting what you are attracting.

But as long as you are stuck with the belief that "It does not work." and you seek and think about all of the reasons you believe this untruth... Then you cannot move forward and you will not look at what you are creating and what you are actually thinking or feeling or doing to attract it.

You have to first accept the responsibility for what you have created in your life up to this point and stop pretending to be a victim of circumstance. Get over it and begin your life new.

IT DOES WORK. (Abra is proof of that.) Just read his posts. His life is exactly what he says and believes it is. That is what he declares and manifests.

It is like the athlete that has the power to win but does not believe he can win. He says "I can't!" If he says and believes this and his actions follow that he does not try or make the effort required, then ... he is correct... HE CAN'T.

HENCE HE PROVES HIS POINT THAT HE CAN'T DO IT. It is as he has stated it is. It is as he feared it is. He can't win.

That's baloney and you know it.

Just because I don't believe in some absurd "Law of Attraction" doesn't mean that I have no control over anything. I have control over a lot of things. Just not over EVERYTHING.

And we don't need the "Law of Attraction" to be able to control our lives to some degree.

You try to make it sound like anyone who doesn't buy into the Law of Attraction is claiming to have no control over their life.

You're just being an extremist radical.



What are you saying here?

Anyone who doesn't agree with your "Law of Attraction" should just skip over your threads and not point out the flaws in what you propose?

I thought that was the purpose of disucssion forums?

You sound as bad as the Christians.

You just want to proselytize your philosophy and ignore the people who point out where it has flaws.

You should rent a billboard.

All I'm saying is that I see no historical evidence for it in my life, or the lives of many other people.

You keep blaming this on affirmations.

Then I bring up the point that if the "Law of Attraction" is indeed a valid law of this universe, it should not require affirmations. You should just attract what you attract. There shouldn't be any need to affirm it.

If there is a need for Affirmations then I submit that it should be renamed (The Law of Affirmations).

Then you could explain how affirmations are the key and it has nothing to do with like vibrations attracting like vibrations.

What?

You don't like billboards that talk back?

You're attracting all of this to yourself I assure you.

You can trust me on this one.

What would that have to do with any "Law of Attraction"?

You have claimed repeatedly that LIKE attracts LIKE. And this was the foundation of how this so-called Law of Attraction works.

But now you're claiming that whatever you DECLARE will become manifest.

That's a WHOLE DIFFERENT BALLGAME!

What would that have to do with LIKE attracting LIKE?

You're all over the place with no consistent theme.

You just argue whatever seems to best fit the moment.

Either we ATTRACT what we are, or we manifest what we DECLARE.

Those are two entirely DIFFERENT concepts.

The question is are there supernatural abilities that we can use or have to control our lives and destinies and maybe even other lives at will? Is this "law of attraction" an ability that we once had or something we can really use if we know its secrets, or is it nothing more then the figmentation of our imagination again?

Some say yes and some say no.

What is your opinion?

Abra, your posts only illustrate that you do not understand the principles at work... and don't want to.

BUT If you want to "shut me up" so you can go back to your gloomy depressing dark hopeless lonely life (where you complain that you have no wife or family,) and where you continue to whine and complain about being a victim of circumstance, having been lied to and disappointed since childhood by Christianity, and then brag about what a great loving happy cheerful person you really truly are....then okay.

(Sorry, but this seems to be how you have described your life.)

I will end this thread with only this, my intentions have only been for good.

I am sorry if these beliefs upset people.

... Something's definitely missing here:
The Theory becomes a Law only after observing the regularity of it's conclusion(s) in any/all circustances -- otherwise, those exceptions must specified...

I'm referring to the case of Mr. X:
He is the most kind, optimistic, and positive kind of a person -- always cheerful and friendly...(and gainfully employed).
Every day, he starts with the positive affirmations regarding his general well-being -- and thus far he was doing O'K... UNTIL THE CRISIS HAS HIT! ! !

As a result, he's lost virtually everything:
Job, House, Car, ... even his wife (who's run off with the wealthy neighbour).
. .. . . . . REGARDLESS OF HIS POSITIVE THINKING!!!
. . . . . . . ************************************

Poor Mr.X, and he was such a firm beleiver in the Law of Attraction! ! !

Perhaps Emotional Intelligence is the true key to success. To be able to adapt to changes quickly to survive the many different paths we take in our lifetimes.

Perhaps the laws of attraction is nothing more then the laws of emotional intelligence?

I almost picked up a book the last time I went to the bookstore on "Emotional Intelligence". I should have done it just to see what the term emotional intelligence really covers.

I understand the principles just fine.

Much of the spiritual work that I'm currently involved with is based very much on positive affirmations.

I do positive affirmations all the time.

However, affirmations as I studying them don't mean to be in denial of history as you seem to demand.

Affirmations also don't require that I lie about the past. They are just positive statements of the future.

Besides, what exactly is it that you think I'm not accepting?

You talk about accepting responsibility for everything that happens to me.

But then you turn around and confess yourself that I am not responsible for the actions of other people.

Then you turn back around and act like I should be fully responsible for not having a wife and children.

Yet obtaining a wife and children absolutely requires the consent of another person!

Something even you confess that I cannot possibly be responsible for or have any control over!

In fact, I hold that all of my problems in life that I have every complained about are directly associated with the free will choices of other people.

Something that you have already agreed that I have no control over.

I take full responsibility for my own choices and actions.

I accept no responsibly for the choices and actions of other people.

I have no clue what more I could possibly be responsible for than that. \\

I can't be held responsible for the choices and actions of other people.

Yet that is the only thing that I have every complained about. The choices and actions of other people.

I'm totally happy with all of the choices and actions that I personally make and I have no complaints about those at all.

So what is it that you are suggesting I'm doing that isn't in accordance with what I should be doing based on the Law of Attraction?

As far as I can see I'm already doing everything precisely they way I should, but for whatever reason, I'm not attracting the things that you say I should be attracting.

This really isn't any different from what the Christians have accused me of. They claim that I never truly asked Jesus to come into my life. That's so totally untrue. I asked Jesus to come into my life over 40 years ago. The door is SILL OPEN! He's more than free to come into my life whenever he decided to keep HIS PROMISE. I can't force him to act. All I can do is ask. It's up to HIM to respond.

It's the same way with your Law of Attraction. I'm already doing all the things that you claim I should be doing. Yet nothing is happening the way you claim that it should he happening.

I'm still waiting for the Law of Attraction to actually WORK.

I just don't see it working. What can I say?

There's nothing more I can do. In fact, if I had to actually do anything more than I'm already doing there would not be any need for a Law of Attraction because the only way to get around it would be to get out there and FORCE these things to become manifest by sheer will. But where's the "Law of Attraction" in that? That wouldn't be the Law of Attraction. That would be the Law of Brute Force!

I probably could do that, but I've never been the kind of person to push myself onto other people and I'm not about to start. That would hardly be the "Law of Attraction" anyway.

If there's a "Law of Attraction" I should be "attracting" these things to me, I shouldn't have to go out and make them happen by brute force participation. That would actually defy any supposed "Law of Attraction" anyway.

I'm sure your intentions are good. That's not the point. This is a science and philosophy forum. It's the nature of these forums to question philosophies and science and ask what evidence there is to support them.



Well, I for one do not find them upsetting. I just see no evidence that supports them. No need to bring emotions into it.

I just point out the logical inconsistencies and the fact that I see no evidence to support it.

No emotion required.

Your beliefs do not upset me. How you tend to need to control a lot of these threads does. Instead of telling someone they are doing it wrong and that is why universal magic doesn't work for them you could just not post. Its clear from a very few posts that you don't agree. At some point instead of being offensive I choose to end the conversation.

I have said before . . . .If you could set out a set of objective criteria to determine when someone has positively set the needed . . . whatever (mind state, focus, idea, ect) to achieve this 100% LOA then we could test it.

Otherwise you are just asking us to believe based on your own blather.
Otherwise you are just taking confirmation bias, and positive thinking and merging them into a universal effect, not uncommon today.

Telling anyone that they just don't have the right frame of mind, or desires to change their situation is also highly offensive when you cannot possibly know the details of someone's life. Because you trust this effect to be true fundamentally, and cannot possibly see it as wrong that makes you bias, and you take it for granted that the other party must have done it wrong . . . . a sad approach to take if you are to attempt any kind of intellectually honest discussion.

To me this is a very simplistic, ideological, childlike view of the world. Its also a stubborn narrow minded stance you take, insisting that you must be right the very notion of which is unverifiable due to a lack of objective criteria.

This is the same stance that is taken with all myth, fable, religion, and dogma that is taken to be true at a fundamental level, then reality is twisted to fit the facts.

Billy, I do not take it for granted that the other party "must have done it wrong."

They are simply attracting things they do not want because for every positive thought they have about what they want they have three negative thoughts about what they don't want. Or they make negative affirmations, or they write negative statements and beliefs about it insisting that this is the case.

If Abra had the intention to have a wife, he would have a wife. I don't think he is that incompetent. He just gave up on it.

Taking one step forward and four steps backward will not accomplish moving in a forward direction.

JB, saying someone has too many negative thoughts and that is why there desires are overwritten in the same thing as saying they are doing it wrong. We all want our desires to come true, this should be self evident.

I seriously have to question you when I read this kind of contradiction.

First you have to know for certain exactly what you want. Believe it is yours, intend to have it. Don't "hope." Intend. Then act.

When you know exactly what you want, and you intend to have it, and you act -- you do not give up hope if it does not jump out at you all of a sudden like magic.

Forget about the "law of attraction," use your common sense and just clarify what you want and intend to have it. Believe you can. Keep your mind and attention on it.

If you hold the belief that you cannot have it, you will not act in such a way that it will come to you or you to it. If you hold conflicting beliefs about what you can and cannot do or have you will keep it from coming into your experience.

No it is not. You are doing it all the time. There is no right or wrong.

You are either attracting what you do not want or you are attracting what you do want.

Either way, your thoughts and vibrations determine what comes into your experience, wanted or not.

Well, not only that but claiming that their are 'whinning' about their life is an offensive charge as well.

What Jeannie is referring to is that I have suggested on occassion that I believe my life would have been far more rewarding, not only for me, but for some woman and possibly some children, had I ever married.

That's an observation that could hardly be considered to be whinning.

I'm not claiming to be miserable because I never married and had a family. I simply suggest that it could have been much more fulfilling for everyone involved had things been different.

She's a divorced woman. I'm sure that she too realizes that thing could have been different in her life and relationships as well.

The mere fact that we observe that things don't always work out the way we would have liked is not at all the same as whinning or complaining about them.

It's simply a recognition that life isn't the utopia that we would all like it to be.

To pretend otherwise would be silly.

What does she expect? Everyone to live in denial?

Clearly if she's divorced there must have been a time when she was less than pleased with her life's situation as well.

I don't see where the fact that people don't claim that every moment of thier life has been a perfect utopia translates into 'whinning'.

I think that's just an insensitve and actually a quite nasty accusation really.

All in the name of winning an internet forum debate.

And how would the Law of Attraction play into that if it does truly work?

If you go around accusing other people of being helpless whinners wouldn't that attract those same thoughts and feelings back to you?

Or maybe even manifest that actuality into your life?

If you truly believe that you attract to yourself what you think and feel then you should be very careful what you think and feel about other people.