Abra....

I APPLAUD You

For starting a Thread that DISCUSSES

Your Views .



Even though Your Views Remain the

Same as Before,

the Manner in Which You Are

DELIVERING Your

Message this Time, is Calm and

Very Mature.



It Also Makes For a More Peaceful and

Positive Atmosphere....

Thruout the Whole Forum.

Thank You, Abra.

Abra...here's a suggestion:

from now on.....for ever viewpoint you have ,

find scriptures to BACK UP WHY you have these Views...

instead of just voicing your viewpoints ....

without one single scripture to back your views..ok?

Also..

read the whole verse and chapter of what you find in scriptures...

before sharing....

otherwise, scripture can easily be taken out of context.

THEN share it here...

cause that way ,

we will be better able to get somewhere in the discussion here .

When you say "reveal" do you mean you have physically seen god? It says in the bible that anyone who gazes upon the lord will perish so I’m just wondering how you personally define the word “reveal”?

http://www.humanist.net/

An informative site if anyone is interested and you dont have to be an Atheist.

As Kurt Vonnegut succinctly described: being a Humanist means trying to behave decently without expectation of rewards or punishment after you are dead.

Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without theism and other supernatural beliefs, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.

Interesting. I agree that there is evidence to support the fact that this didn't happen to many (if not most) people, however, is it not impossible to prove that it has not happened for some? I saw your posts about "categorizing" people. I think you and I agree on that. You can't take one representative or even a multitude of representatives and judge them all accordingly. I understand that the mere concept of this suggests that their could be a God, creator, or whatever someone would like to call it. But is it not a possibility anyways? I think to suggest that there is physical proof that it is one way or the other leads to foolhardy ventures. Nonetheless, some will simply choose to believe as they "want" to believe.

Love is a thing that we cannot see but yet most of us believe in it. There are those that choose not to believe (it's true, I have met them). Even those that do not choose to believe in it sometimes have hope that it exists. Only those that have the faith to trust and then act on it with patience find the evidence of it. Sadly, some people go their entire lives without it even testifying that there is no proof that such a thing exists.
I know of a girl that has a history of meddling in other people's relationships. At first, many of us were puzzled as to how someone could get pleasure from trying to destroy other people's relationships. Finally, after looking at her history we realized that was not the case. She was unable to enjoy a relationship with someone because of trust issues. She always pretended everything was great in her relationship with whomever even though we all could see otherwise. Come to find out, she was not intentionally "trying" to split people up, but she did not "believe" that people were genuinely happy together and would therefore "rock the boat".

I hope you see the relevance.

I’m not sure about that statement. Honestly I would need to look it up for some kind of validation. I believe there are still more Christians in this country then there are Atheists and Agnostics.



No of course not, that is what I mean by "faith."




Was that me? I can’t always keep track of what threads I have responded to or what posts I have made. I’m often times surprised people even read anything I type or take me seriously at tall. I’m flattered.



I never said that the existence of god could be substantiated one way or another. I made a point of saying it couldn’t be.



Yes isn’t that a good thing?

I support Sharp's Christianity too.

Unfortunately I don't see what it has to do with the biblical picture of God.

I do believe that most modern Christians have a very non-biblical view of Christianity.

I read once that the fastest growing religion in the world is 'Designer Christianity'. These are simply people who have extracted Jesus from the Bible and then made up their own religion surrounding him.

They just ignore what the Bible actually says and pretend that Jesus speaks directly to them in their heart.

That's nice, but it doesn't support the dogma.

Unfortunately by Checking the Checkbox of "Christainity" and waving the flag of "Jesus Saves" they are supporting the dogma from whence these idea sprang whether they realize it or not.

Jesus is nailed more firmly to the Old Testament than he was to the cross, and the spikes that hold him there is the very proclamtion that he was the Son of the God of Abraham who was sent as a sacrificial lamb to die and thus save us from the wrath of God.

There's just no getting around it. Jesus stands on the shoulders of the God of Abraham. And the Old Testament is supposedly a description of the God of Abraham. So to believe in Jesus automatically demands a belief that the Old Testament (a story about a self-confessed jealous God who is appeased by blood sacrifices) is indeed the "Word of God".

It simply makes not sense to proclaim that Jesus is "God" and to simultaneously deny the picture of God that is portrayed by the Old Testament.

The other thing that 'Designer Christians' do is play down the God of Abraham. In fact, they don't worship the God of Abraham at all. They are in unanimous agreement that he was an immoral jerk. Truly they are!

Thus they worship Jesus as their "New God" that replaced the God of Abraham.

Everyone thinks that Jesus was so cool by replacing the horrible things that the God of Abraham had commanded people to do with things that we, as mortal humans, can accept as being moral.

For example, the God of Abraham commanded people to judge other people and stone them to death as sinners. This was his commandment, and this is precisely WHY the Jews were doing this very thing in Jesus' say. Because the God of Abraham had commanded them to do it!

But then Jesus comes along and shows a disaproval of stoning people to death and he teaches us not to judge others.

Everyone LOVES JESUS!

Why?

Because he TAUGHT what makes SENSE! He taught what most mortal men see as being the moral way to behave.

But what does this say ultimately?

It says that most people did not see the God of Abraham as being moral!

The God of Abraham taught people to seek revenge, as in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Jesus came along and rejected that notion and taught that we should be forgiving instead and turn the other cheek and forgive those who trespass against us.

Again, everyone LOVE JESUS!

But no one agrees with GOD!

What Jesus God?

No, according to the Bible he was the Son of God that was given as a sacrificial lamb to pay for the sins of man (sins being disobedience to God).

Consider the following too:

If God commanded us to judge others and stone sinners to death, then the people who weren't doing that were disobeying God!

God has also commanded us that it's our duty to seek out heathens and murder them, along with their entire families.

And what's a "heathen"?

Well clearly in the biblical context it can only be someone who disagrees with "God's Word" and that means the Bible. So anyone who disagrees that the Bible is the word of God is a heathen and should be murdered. That would include me obviously! I'm a heathen because I denounce the Bible as being the word of God. This is also considered to be an unforgivable sin. So supposedly I'm beyond redemption, by God's own word even he cannot forgive me!

None the less no one likes the God of Abraham, (not even the Christians!). But they sure do love Jesus!

Jesus was bold enough to speak out against the word of the God of Abraham and denounce his evil ways.

But now the Christians have made Jesus into their NEW GOD!

They worship Jesus! NOT the God of Abraham.

But how can that be?

Jesus was supposed to be the sacrificial lamb of the God of Abraham. Why should people make a God out of a sacrifical lamb?

They shouldn't be worshiping the sacrifical lamb, they should be worshiping the God who gave the lamb as a sacrifice!

In fact, the very idea of a God making a sacrifice is an oxymoronic idea to begin with. That would imply that God was somehow desperate. Especially since this act is often assocated with winning a war against a fallen angel. If Satan succeeded in pressuring God into sacrificing his own Son to win the war then Satan won spiritually, no matter what the ultimate outcome of the war might be.

The bottom line is simple:

Christians worship the sacrifical Lamb of a God they don't even like!

They have made the sacrificial lamb into their God and they totally reject the God that supposedly made the sacrifice.

And this is why 'Designer Christianity' makes not sense.

It's merely an attempt to extract Jesus from the biblical picture and pretend that he is a God in his own right.

I can certainly sympathize with this view. Christianity would be a wonderful religion if Jesus was a God in his own right and we could just chuck out the Old Testamant as total fiction.

But unfortunately that's not what Christianity holds. Christiainity claims that Jesus is nailed more firmly to the Old Testament than he ever was to the cross. And the Old testament is where all the bigotry comes from.

Modern Christians Churches use Jesus as a battering ram to preach against same-gender love (from the Old Testament) and against evolution in favor if creationism (again the Old Testament) and they preach that anyone who hasn't accepted Jesus as the sacrificial lamb of God is a heathen (again this notion that jesus is the sacrifical lamb of the God of Abraham requires the Old Testament)

Modern Christianity is truly nothing more than an organization that uses Jesus to support the bigotry and ignorance of the Old Testament.

Yes, if Jesus could be made into a God in his OWN RIGHT then maybe I'd become a Christian too, but then it's be the same as Buddhism anyway since Jesus could no longer be viewed as the sacrificial lamb of an angry jealous God who is at war with an evil demon.

So, yes, if 'Designer Christianity' could be made into a viable religion on its own I might even be inclined to support it myself. But as long as Jesus is nailed to the Old Testament, I denounce the religion (Just like Jesus did!)

I think you are simply confusing me with someone else. I dont get the "Love analogy" thing at all. Sorry.

Just showing an example of how faith can give evidence. Love just seems to be a great example that most people can relate to. Not making any suggestions about you. Please don't take it too personally.

I understand that much. You are saying that people can have "faith" that love exists without actually ever experiencing it. Much the same way that people have faith that god exists even though there is no evidence to support that.

I guess I just don’t see how that relates to my comments at all.

Not actually what I was saying. Was saying that someone that does NOT have faith in love will never be open to seeing the evidence of it.
Anyways, not trying to get you fired up... lol. I like you and I'm not trying to upset you. Just commenting.

I still don’t see the correlation to anything I have said specifically. How is that relatable to my comments?

Well - none of these applied to me. I chose christianity amoungst the numerous world religions and philosophies that I had been studying and pursuing over a period of 20 years, and found Christianty the only one that made sense.

How funny. I once explored Catholicism and found it to be outlandish. Amazing how people can have such differing world views. I’m also female and I was unhappy with the misogynist presence embedded in the Church. That might have swayed my opinion of it.

I grew up a Catholic, and found it so outlandish that I abandoned it for Atheism. Then after a tour through the New Age, Buddism, the Occult, etc, I finally found Christianity.