"Father forgive them for the KNOW NOT what they do."

Matthew 13:20-21
KJV
"But he that received the seed in stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and immediately with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for awhile for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, immediately he is offended."

Nowhere have I found an example of Jesus going into a debate or argument with anyone. Although I have seen him become indignant... and yet with love.

An important thing that I have constantly reminded myself over and over is that Jesus never chased after people trying to convince them of anything. He was rooted in Himself and they came to Him and followed. Should we not be doing the same?

Not actually what I was saying. Was saying that someone that does NOT have faith in love will never be open to seeing the evidence of it.
Anyways, not trying to get you fired up... lol. I like you and I'm not trying to upset you. Just commenting.

Just showing an example of how faith can give evidence. Love just seems to be a great example that most people can relate to. Not making any suggestions about you. Please don't take it too personally.

Interesting. I agree that there is evidence to support the fact that this didn't happen to many (if not most) people, however, is it not impossible to prove that it has not happened for some? I saw your posts about "categorizing" people. I think you and I agree on that. You can't take one representative or even a multitude of representatives and judge them all accordingly. I understand that the mere concept of this suggests that their could be a God, creator, or whatever someone would like to call it. But is it not a possibility anyways? I think to suggest that there is physical proof that it is one way or the other leads to foolhardy ventures. Nonetheless, some will simply choose to believe as they "want" to believe.

Love is a thing that we cannot see but yet most of us believe in it. There are those that choose not to believe (it's true, I have met them). Even those that do not choose to believe in it sometimes have hope that it exists. Only those that have the faith to trust and then act on it with patience find the evidence of it. Sadly, some people go their entire lives without it even testifying that there is no proof that such a thing exists.
I know of a girl that has a history of meddling in other people's relationships. At first, many of us were puzzled as to how someone could get pleasure from trying to destroy other people's relationships. Finally, after looking at her history we realized that was not the case. She was unable to enjoy a relationship with someone because of trust issues. She always pretended everything was great in her relationship with whomever even though we all could see otherwise. Come to find out, she was not intentionally "trying" to split people up, but she did not "believe" that people were genuinely happy together and would therefore "rock the boat".

I hope you see the relevance.

I know exactly what she is saying here. The scriptures have definitions of words in it. It takes a lot of diligence and patience but you have to search for those definitions in order to understand it fully.
And to think that I was using a dictionary (man's interpretation) for a long time before I figured that one out... lol.

You missed one which is "supposed" to be the fundamental of "Christianity". However, I think the others you listed are very common and the results are clear.

D. A person reached out by faith that Jesus is the Son of God and that God had the power to raise Him from the dead and as a result of that faith God revealed Himself.

Thank you. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean Helping others with it helps keeps me focused.



That is an extremely insightful way of putting it

I will take that as a compliment

I agree completely. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is step back so you don't get become considered as part of the problem (whether you are or not). Been there, done that and it is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do in my entire life Best thing you can do is step back and let them come to you. The best things my parents ever did for me when I had a drug and alcohol problem over 15 years ago.
A person that is truly seeking fulfillment in anything has to come to a place that they realize that the answers may or may not (usually not) be what they want to hear.
Have probably drifted a bit off topic but not completely.

I found this post a bit interesting. I may be mistaken but it sounds like the "seeking fulfillment without commitment" issue that a lot of people suffer from. Usually do to a fear of commitment because of something that has happened in their past.

I'm just asking you to elaborate a bit on what you said because it is sounds like you don't believe that anyone should give solution-based advice. I realize you said "especially when it comes to religion" but the same can be applied to just about anything else.

For example, applying what you said to a struggling alcoholic, you could argue that an alcoholic shouldn't be told that they have to do something. That it is their personal choice to be an alcoholic and not a "do this so you cannot suffer from alcoholism". They should just be left alone and not converted at all but especially not in exchange for freedom from alcoholism.

I would like to elaborate that I do not think that anyone should be forceful in any attempt to provide advice to someone as to how to live a healthier or more productive lifestyle. Each person much make the decision on their own to seek that out. However, there is also nothing wrong with offering help when you see someone struggling.

I'm sure that you hadn't thought of it that way. Not trying to rock the boat or be argumentative. Just giving you something to consider.

Moved... see below.

I don't think it is shallow. I have dated a number of heavy women in the past. They had a lot of qualities otherwise that I really liked. I am slender, athletic, and am extremely active. I have gotten to the point now where am not really interested in anymore heavier than "a few extra pounds". I have realized that the reason I don't find them as attractive is not because of the weight itself but the problems I have had with sharing physically demanding activities with them. The most recent woman I dated that I had this problem with began complaining during a 5 mile bike ride we took. She would not even consider trying snow boarding with me to see if she might like it. She was extremely inactive which is something I have learned that I do not enjoy.

Thank you Britty. It is very nice to be here. I just joined the site yesterday and it has already been a great blessing to my life.

Umm... nightshade is a plant too.
In any piece of literature you cannot take one sentence as a fundamental for the entire work. You have to take it in its entirety and use the process of elimination to find the absolute message.
Many cults have been formed by taking one verse from the bible or other religious works and making it a fundamental without the rest of the work.
I am currently in an addiction support group after ending a 5 year emotionally abusive relationship with someone that confessed that marijuana was causing a lot of problems in her life. She if fortunately now seeking help.
I also used (and should say abused) marijuana at one point of my life. It is amazing how much anyone that has given it up has the same perspective about it.
Bottom line with anything is common sense and education. Google the medical reports on the effects of marijuana. Here are the things I noticed in myself and have noticed in ALL (not just some, but all) of my friends that do it:
*Strong mood swings (Manic Depressant) at times and emotionally numb or unfeeling at other times. This seems to cause a lot of the remaining conditions.
*Indecisive and therefore usually weak-willed. Highly influenced by others (specifics vary) opinions sometimes giving up individual identity. Has a hard time making solid decisions about things. Changes mind and/or commitments often.
*Paranoia and mistrust. This stems from the confusion that the person has about how they personally feel about things (especially things they become numb to). They therefore question other people's motives and intentions concerning these same things.
*Communication and memory (mainly pertaining to communication memory). It is a known medical fact that marijuana directly affects both parts of the brain that deal with these. Most abusers think that they are very misunderstood without realizing that it is because of a lack of good communication skills on their part. They also find themselves being defensive about conversations that they have had in the past. Usually being adamant about not saying things that were completely out of character for them.
*Lack of ambition. Most do not have solid goals because of the indecision they suffer. Usually if they do pursue something, they don't follow it through to the end. Having had many unfinished long-term projects is a good sign that there is a problem.
*Dependency and defensiveness. Most abusers believe that marijuana helps them deal with their problems and will argue that if the subject comes up. This is a sign of dependency that stems from the emotional numbness that they experience towards life's disappointments. Pain (whether it be physical or emotional) is a message that our brain delivers to us to tell us that something is not right. Numbing ourselves to this pain stunts our growth in dealing with life's problems. Instead of taking the actions that are needed to problem solve, an abuser becomes numb to the pain and thus never grows past the problem.

Most of my friends respect me and trust me very much. I know each person personally and have been able to present this information to them in a way that they would accept. Most of them have since quit, cut back, or at least considered. I hope that this bit of information helps at least one person reading it as it has helped me and my friends. If it does, let me know. It would be nice to know that my efforts here have not been wasted.
I am not interested in going into a philosophical, religious, political, etc... debate about this. However, I am interested in other sources of educational material on this subject if you have any to share.

I don't think it is important for us to care... or have care to put it in other words. We are told that we should take care for nothing.
However, we should have love and compassion for everyone. With this said, it is important for us to remember that God is dealing with people everyday (Christian or not). Some of those people are atheists. Atheists confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior all of the time and enter the Kingdom of God. All of us had to allow God to deal with us before we received Jesus as our Lord. All of us were in different places in our lives when that happened.
Lately, I have been watching someone that is closely involved in my life going through a lot of pain and suffering. She is Jewish and has not accepted Jesus as the messiah, much less her Lord. I have compassion for her and the suffering that she is going through. I have been praying for her that God would reveal the truth to her and that she would have the opportunity to receive Jesus as her Lord. I know that is the only way she will find peace in her life. I have hope for her, faith that God will deal with her, and the patience to let that happen and continue dealing with her with the love of God no matter how grim things seem or how much things seem to appear like they are getting nowhere. I will not take care (or be anxious or worry) about the situation because I know God is more than able to take care of it. I also know that in the end, it is her decision to either reject Him or receive Him.
The above example is the place that I have reached through prayer, study, and meditation. Not just toward atheists but anyone that has not received Jesus as Lord.