I agree completely. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is step back so you don't get become considered as part of the problem (whether you are or not). Been there, done that and it is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do in my entire life Best thing you can do is step back and let them come to you. The best things my parents ever did for me when I had a drug and alcohol problem over 15 years ago.
A person that is truly seeking fulfillment in anything has to come to a place that they realize that the answers may or may not (usually not) be what they want to hear.
Have probably drifted a bit off topic but not completely.

Well I’m happy for you! 15 years! That’s great. Stay focused on it though. You know what I mean. Yes, the worst thing you can become is an "enabler". It’s easy to do that also because it’s the path of least resistance.

You kind of look like Jesus in your pic Markum.


Good job of kicking your habits. Good luck to you.

He does!

Well, I was talking about the Biblical God.

The biblical God himself confesses to being a jealous God.

The Bible also speaks to speaks to the issues of God's wrath all the time. In fact, that's precisely what Jesus was supposedly saving people from - God's wrath.

The misogynistic aspect of the biblical God is apparent in his attitude and commandments associated with the treatment of women.

It's all there in the Bible.

If you don't think God is like that, then you're probably like me and don't believe that the Bible has anything to do with God.

I can only speak to the issue of what the Bible actually says.

If our creator isn't like than, then clearly the Bible isn't the word of God.

That's the only point that should be obvious.

I will take that as a compliment

Thank you. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean Helping others with it helps keeps me focused.



That is an extremely insightful way of putting it

Getting back on topic here. I have this feeling that the primary reasons why a person clings to or "finds" Christianity is:

A. From childhood, it was what they were instructed to believe in and they didn’t know any better. They were also afraid to question it even if they wanted to.

B. People that were not necessarily indoctrinated at a young age but who suffered some sort of major trauma or life altering experience that caused them a great deal of grief or a loss of control.

C. Those that just call themselves Christian but really don’t go to church or read the bible but it seems socially acceptable to consider themselves Christian and not acceptable to their friends, spouses or families to consider themselves anything else other than Christian so they continue on with the charade.

I believe no one will be judged unfairly

all will know the truth before being judged, at the very least, during the millenium or Day of the Lord

going to church is not a requirement to go to Heaven

GOD knows our hearts and minds as well as or better than we do ourselves

GOD knows that some require more proof than others, that some are more skeptical than others and all will know the truth in the Day of our Lord, it is not a second chance because with what is taught mostly today, many have never had a first chance to hear GODs word as needed and correctly.

One good deed covers a multitude of sins

If you live a good life, are kind to those that will let you be kind to them. Don't cheat your fellow man, Don't steal, Don't commit murder, Don't rape and are a good person in your heart, GOD knows that and before you are judged you will know the truth and be judged fairly.

Revelation tells me that even then, there will be some that for some reason will not believe or make it, but it will not be because they do not know the truth.

The bible says clearly that in the end times there will be a great apostasy or falling away from GOD. It is to be expected and we as Christians can't do anything about it, it will happen. Judgement will start at the pulpit and with the false teachers first for decieving so many.

evening Abra, Krimsa

Good evening Sharp.

What Sharps last post contained. No not the greetings heh.
For me the thats just it. GoD is almighty this, God knows everything, God is in Charge and God will judge you.
That is the crux of my objection to religion.
I can not,will not, accept that there is some kind of active, existing, all powerful entity that is some kind of proactive being.
It doesnt fly with my reality.

Abracadabra,,
What is your goal here? This Pantheism. What is it? Some kind of philosophic viewpoint?

My only goal is to make people think.

Yes, Pantheism is a generic philosophy. All it means is that "all-is-god". Please notice the use of the lowercase "g".

In the pantheistic view god does not necessarily need to be thought of as having an ego. However, it can be thought of as consciousness and awareness.

Spiritually, patheism means that we are spirit. That this is the true essence of all that exists.

There are many religions that are founded on a pantheistic philosophy.

It's not my intent to sell any of them. In fact, I personally don't believe in organized religions at all. I much prefer personal spirituality. Although even personal spirituality can be share among groups of people. Hopefully they won't use it as an excuse to exclude others.

In any case, Buddhism is one example of a pantheistic-based religion. However, as an organized religion there are sect that become a bit too dogmatic for my personal taste.

Man has a habit of stealing religion from 'god' and trying to make it his own thing.

For an overview of the pantheisic philosophy I would highly recommend the following Deepak Chopra videos:

Deepak Chopra: "How to Know God"

This one is an entertaining and quite artistic documentary.

Deepak Chopra: "Essential Collection" 2 DVD set.

The second set are more serious lectures. The Seven Spiritual Laws and The Way of the Wizard.

They can be rented from Netflix or possibly found at a local library for free.

Chopra is basically a Buddhist, but he doesn't mention Buddism. He just gives the foundational spiritual ideas of pantheism in general.

Here is a web site about pantheism. I'm not recommending this web site in particular. But it has some overall information that you may find helpful.

http://www.pantheism.net/

In fact, this site suggests that pantheism is even a good philosophy for atheists (which I agree). Even athesits can view the universe as being one continuous thing without being concerned with the idea of a central or all-encompassing 'consciousness'.

Usually in that context it is referred to as 'animism'. And animating life force of which we are all apart.

So as you can see the fundamental philosophy of "pantheism" is very open to personal interpretation.

Many people view this as a 'weakness' because they need a "Fatherly Image" God.

Typically pantheism is views as our true nature. Our spiritual essence. However some people view it as an all-encompassing consciousness (as Deepak describes).

It's very versatile, and from my point of view that's actually its strength not a weakness.

After all, if spirit exist it's beyond the comprehension of the human brain and pantheism allows for that.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

I just get tired of eveyone demanding that we accept that some guy was nailed to a pole before God will accept us. To me that's just getting seriously old, and it's clearly not productive for humanity. History has verified that over and over and over again. And modern religions just continue to beat the drums of bigotry and rejection of others based on who they veiw God.

This crap of large religious groups judging others in the name of God is just plain ungodly.

We've got to get past this for the sake of humanity.

Well Ill tell you, I view most major religions as a powerplay. Not by those who actually get some kind of fulfillment from them, but from those who would espouse their's as the Only true religion and all others being evil. There are many powerful people of many religions who would have only their religion as true and honorable.
I like the comment about viewing God as a
Central or all encompasing consciousness, that is exactly why I dont associate with religion.
Anyway thx for the enlightenment lol. I'll check into Pantheism just for the idea of enrichment.

Well technically it was the men or man who wrote the story who claimed god to be a vengeful, jealous and wrathful god but his/their reasoning is sound, how can make people follow if you do not use fear or guilt?

I am an Agnostic Atheist that supports Abra's Pantheism, and Sharps Christianity.

Cheers fellas!

If only all religious could be so wise.

The New Testament and some of the Old has done some absolutely, unmistakably, beautiful things in so many people's hearts and lives. That is what is possible. Unfortunately throughout history there are those who used it for personal gain. History has repeatedly shown that when an individual's way becomes the collective sense of ought the results are pathological. This is often the viewpoint being used by those who feel compelled to attribute the actions of students who claim to have an understanding of the teachings of Christ from a church which mistakenly claims to hold to the virtues of the teacher to the teacher.


It can give hope to those without it.

It can point someone in the only direction to find peace...

Within.

You missed one which is "supposed" to be the fundamental of "Christianity". However, I think the others you listed are very common and the results are clear.

D. A person reached out by faith that Jesus is the Son of God and that God had the power to raise Him from the dead and as a result of that faith God revealed Himself.

Except that there is evidence to support the fact that this didn’t happen. If a person wants to cling to faith, they can. I have faith (or hope) that the sun will warm the earth tomorrow. It doesn’t necessarily mean that will occur. Barring some sort of solar destructive event more than likely, it will.

Krimsa.....the moment one has FAITH to Believe,

is the moment God REVEALS Himself to a Believer.

And this happens To EVERY SINGLE BELIEVER.

That is WHY BELIEVERS have this

UNSHAKEABLE FAITH...

That Nothing Can Ever.....

or Will EVER Take Away.



Because God has REVEALED Himself to Us,

is WHY We KNOW

GOD IS REAL ...

And

WHO He SAYS He IS!!