well to start i've read enough posts on here to know there's convincing anyone of anything,especially when it comes to faith
that cann't be PROVEN

i find it very interesting people are basically argueing over something that means nothing to them

if you don't believe in something why argue against it

This thread has absolutely NOTHING to do with substantiating the existence of the god of the bible, or any other god for that matter. Please read the issues and questions put forth by the OP. Thank you.




Because if you don’t believe in Christianity you still occupy a place on this earth and are entitled to do so. More people have been murdered in the name of religion (all religion) than for any other reason...ever. This is why it matters to people who do not subscribe to this faith.

there is good and bad in everything if one person see's something that is good then there is ALWAYS one person who will believe it's bad.
as for my comment about faith that's what the underlining issue is

What was your comment on faith?

So how is Adolph Hitler and the Crusades "good" and "justifiable" in your opinion?

in my opinion they were crazy but millions of germans thought it was great as well as christians

hence good and bad

Okay well that is a good answer and I will comment on your honesty. However, clearly Hitler “used" Christianity as a means to achieve the support and the blessing of the German people prior to the beginning of WW2. Three elements put him into power:

1. The Catholic Church
2. The Protestant Church
3. The Christian German Population of Germany

So that’s where we are here in this debate.

to start with hitler hated the christian church but he did use it for propaganda purposes

and the op was good and bad

Well his goal was to eventually reunite the Catholic and Protestant church under the Third Reich. He was a devout Catholic.

He also utilized his faith as a means of further exacerbating the rift that already existed between German Gentiles and Jews at the onset of WW2

People just LOVE throwing around historical facts, ideas and interpretations about Hitler and the Holocaust ad nauseum. Hitler was a human being, just like the rest of us.

We each have the same potential for creating that much pain and misery (whether we want to admit it or not).

YES... there's good and bad in everything AND everyone...

What's so damned difficult about seeing BOTH the good and bad at the same time and, ONCE AND FOR ALL, ACCEPTING IT AND GETTING THE **** OVER IT?

We (mankind) have been miserable slaves to this impulse to draw, quarter, dissect and determine every minute aspect/idea of life as either one or the other.

Don'tcha think it's getting monotonous?

If its possible that this perceived "battle" of good and evil has always been mere man-made illusion, why continue to sit in our own ****ty diapers?

What Christian organizations are doing on a political level with the money they collect from their sheep is no illusion.

They have every intent of doing very evil things.

If the supression of the intellectual advancement of humanity is evil, then these Christian organizations are doing an evil thing by denouncing science (again).

If lying is evil, then these Christian organizations are pursuing evil goals because they are pushing politically to have their creation myth taught to our children as a science. But it's not science. So the Christians are advocating lying to our children, and they are trying to push this into law.

If it is evil to blockage the advance of medical research, then Christians are actively embracing evil by fighting politically to make stem cell research illegal by law. And they are using the money donated to them by Christian sheep to push these agenda. This isn't about Jesus at all. It about politicians pretending to speak for God.

If it is evil to incite international riots by threating the religion of other countries via very intrusive proselyting campaigns that bash the religion of that country and attempt to brainwash its citizens into supporting Christianity, then Christianity is evil.

So it's not just an illusion. It's being supported by the tithes of the Christians who support this kind of evil in the name of the Bible.

It's very real.

Splendidlife, I don’t think anyone has ever argued that Hitler was indeed anything other than a human. These historical reference points are all we have to go on. I’m sorry if you feel it to be redundant. Otherwise, we have a bunch of speculation and opinion. By investigating these occurrences in history where religion was used in order to commit atrocities, we can then say well when you combine 1+1 you will have two. It’s been demonstrated, evidenced and played out by the recording of these events.

where do you get science is denounced by Christians?

good and evil is a point of view

everything i have ever read states that hitler wanted to wipe out ALL infieror races because he thought everyone else was below him becauses the arian blood had evoluved further than the rest. all his church crap was purely propaganda,to get the people behind him

Yes you are right there. In his private notes, where he describes the Bible as a "Monumental History of Mankind," Hitler outlines his views of the Aryan and the Jew, all in the context of Bible reasoning.

Moreover, Hitler viewed progeny, not in regards to evolution but in terms of blood lines (a Biblical view). He peppered his writings and speeches with "blood" words. Examples in Mein Kampf include:

"One blood demands one Reich."

"Bavarian by blood, technically Austrian, lived my parents..."

...the German in Austria had really been of the best blood..."

"...the weakness of leadership will not cause a hibernation of the state, but an awakening of all the individual instincts which are present in the blood..."

Hitler best sums up his belief of Aryan superiority and his stand against the Jews with his declaration in Mein Kampf:

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."

It is totally understandable by the way I approached this post that you misunderstood my intent.

I'm not trying to minimize the severity of the atrocities. Nor am I attempting to say that any of the concern is unfounded...

The information that you and others gather and present here is NOT redundant to me at all. I see it as highly crucial data.

The part that has apparently got me all riled up today is the fact that there are people who refuse to see the potential in their OWN selves for creating more of the same brutality and misery (because they see them selves as somehow better than or above the actions of the identified "evil"). The self-righteous ones hiding behind dogmatic cop-outs ARE a very scary lot to me, indeed. When unable to see and acknowledge the extent of the actual pain we cause to others, we all become like ruthless dictators. Placing ourselves as above evil and more righteous than any other leads us down the same type of path Hitler walked.

Perhaps admitting this potential for the first time in myself is what spurs me to blab my mouth as I have today.

If it be possible for me, who has lived so far as believing myself as somehow "above" such evil, to finally admit my own depths of potential for hate, envy, pride and arrogance, perhaps I can accept both my "good" and "bad" potentials rather than be ruled by fear of my seemingly overwhelming negative. Perhaps I and others can free ourselves of the need for such judgment of self and others and move on to create a happier world.

I already explained that. They want to denounce the scientific fact of evolution and teach creationism as though it is science even though there is no scientific evidence to support it.

Now, you might say, "Well I'm a Christian and I don't support that."

Well if you give tithes to a church you just might be supporting it a lot more than you realize.

I think the bottom line is the real fact that there truly is no such thing as "Christianity".

All that exists is an ancient book that was written by men who claimed that God told them to do nasty things.

Today the are many different people who believe that God really did tell those ancient men to do nasty things and they call themselves "Christians"

However, most Christians do not agree on the interpretations that are in that horror book.

Not only do individuals who call themselves "Christians" disagree with the interpretations of other "Christians" but even the larger organization of Christianitiy disagree with each other.

Clearly the Protestants protested against the authority of the Catholic Pope. Ironically now, Protestants our politically out to become the authoritarians over the world.

They have become precisely what they had protested against.

They are trying to push their beliefs and agendas onto others via the authority of law.

I realize that individual "Designer Christians" aren't really involved with this directly. My argument is that they are easily led to support it via both tithing, and via preaching and defending the larger Christian organizations.

If you don't believe that religion should denounce science then you too should speak out against organized religions that do this.

I mean if you're a Christian and you believe that the large Christian organization are doing the wrong things when why not speak out against them?

This is why we have freedom of speech. To prevent things like religious fascism gaining a foothold before it gets so out of hand we find ourselves in the middle of a religious war with other non-Christians countries.

Christians routinely denounce science. It’s like their favorite past time. The fundamentalists do. I don’t want to say all Christians. Many Christians do not insist on taking the bible literally especially the first two accounts of Genesis. They won’t start taking it in a literal sense up until you get to Abraham and all that jazz.

But just about EVERY evangelical Christian I have ever met is at odds with science.

Ok then, some of you might know this one: a theological discussion about Xianity (if we can let the other b/s aside). How do you answer the following:

Who killed Jesus?

Remember, you can not answer with history, but only theological explanations.

Hint: If no one ever existed in all time, eternity and the whole universe but you and only you, would Jesus have to die?