lol.....

the times to come are most to make adults, that can look any emotion in the face and have not one iota of doubt or lack of love, and these things come not by declaring unto all half the human emotions are as sins???

i shall not let you rest in peace until the bias once instilled by true words not yet revealed, is released and given up for the greater bliss you seek???

you are a dear, and it is not missed your intentions are of the pure heart, but less one can see HOW itself is equal to all other living breathing human things at ALL TIMES, then it only break my heart for the pain that lie ahead for anything that lack this equal type of thinking???

if all are children, and all ye are gods, and all are of the father, and all are as the least of these, then for god sake, it only take asking HOW all such things are of the same plant, to have it revealed???

peace dearest sailor that sail her ark straight into equality unto glory and bliss...

Well whatever you do, dont mention Hitler. We already had a close call with someone posting a Hitler video.

Your mother also gave birth to you. She is responsible for carrying you for nine months and bringing you into the world. There is really no god involved with that process whatsoever. Its been the job of the female of the species for millions of years.

ok sure abra whatever you say.....


and it wasn't James and fyi

Was it to make a case of the Biblical God of course duh...what else would I do. Proselytizing no way...

I have given all you thinkers time after time to prove your point...



1. just fights with fence posts...and take lil pieces of the whole sum of what people put out and fights about it.


2. Another takes the whole Bible and rewrites it to fit his views.....


3. Another one just is from another planet and makes no sense to anyone.


4. And all attack Christians and me personally ever chance they can.


5. You don't deal with the issues you are just as bad at having your own beliefs and fighting for them....but since we really truly don't know what most of you believe it is just a joke.


I don't force you at gunpoint into my threads...and cmon people after all this time you think my posts are going to be anything other then God, Bible, or my Lord & Savior....cmon.....but still you all are right their defending the right to believe god who knows truly what it is. And put down Christians and then call us the dogma proselytizing Christians...Do you even get how laughable that truly is.

If that were actually true, you would have reported the post by now. In fact you should report the post. Not ONE person has attacked you on this thread. We might disagree with your beliefs and understanding of how the world works, but you INVITED us to do that by creating this thread.

I don't report it.....not in religion it's religion everyone gets heated.....we do that and there would never be threads in here.....come on K. That you have to admit.....


I didn't personally invite you....I can't stop you this is true...but invite you....no

I don't put out what I do for you people that is crazy......you just twist and turn for your own purposes....You just have a watchman looking for mine and then come with a all you have,.

Well thats the entire point of the statment I just made. You posted this thread in GENERAL RELIGION and clearly it was open for discussion and debate. No one attacked you. By posting this topic, you were in a sense challenging us and we met that challenge. No one EVER attacked you on a personal level. We didnt break any forum regulations.



You cant STOP anyone from posting on thread that you submit. This is an OPEN FORUM. If you want none of us in particular (and we all realize you are referring to Abra, me and a couple others) then post it in Christian Singles. Oh but wait, you cant do that because Christians would have nothing to say/debate concerning a topic about evolution.

Oh really no one attacked.....re-read sweets.....all over the place I am the one shoving it down people's throats, the dogma Proselytizing Christian....please and I did say over and over I put it out there what people do with it, is up to them. And you don't debate any of you because a debate would mean open minds and neither of us have that. You have your beliefs and I have mine. The only one with a truly open heart is JB. And again you didn't meet any challenge because I was not putting in out there for that reason...It your minds you were and thats that.

And again FYI my coffeehouse that was around for 2 years and no one ever came in there.....well one day abra and a few others did....and had it locked.....It was not even a debate thread...It was a thread by a Christian for the Christians and that was evident with the original OP but did that stop them......nope.....


And I will say this once again...When I post where I do...it has nothing at all to do with you people.....I don't care what you think plain simple truth...It for those really seeking to read and say hmmmm, never thought of it that way.....

And when you guys come and day your spiel I am ok with that too......

You're right 'feral', you are proselytizing.

But you are wrong 'feral', it is not an accusation, it is an observable fact for all.

And here is yet another observation of that fact:

Before engaging in an exchange with someone,
... before sitting down to read a book,
... an article,
... or a paper-study-report,
... or before engaging with someone on a public forum,
on any, and all subjects or topics, I, like many others, first need to establish the credibility of the source.
This is often based on universal critieria of integrity (whole vs partial), and thus based on an objective perspective and context vs an exclusively subjective one.

Of course the line in being objective is fine. Presenting anything is by default, subjective.

Your subject, topic, and view of any subject, are all subjective. One's point of view is always subjective. So that isn't the objectivity we are referring to.

Rather, it is an objective quality which becomes manifest, through one's expression of a sincerely open-minded and welcoming attitude of the opinion of others, while simultaneously stating one's own convictions, opinions, personal positions or other forms of beliefs. Stating with conviction, while assessing, accepting, and integrating the convictions of others

True exchanges and growth occurs when such a context for 'exchange' is equally shared and respected by a minimum of two people.
Be in the form of
... a reader and the author of a written document,
... an audience and a particular view offered through audio or video media,
... a poster engaging with other posters on a forum,
... or any two people having a conversation on a shared topic of interest.

What kills all form of objectivity, all forms of fruitful exchange, all forms of growth in mutual views and positions on things, is radicalism, fundamentalism, a position founded on closed dogma. To refuse change is to be in profound denial of reality. IT IS LIVING A LIE.

The expression of this deceitful social disease brings the afflicted victim to engage in a conversation in these too often heard dogamtic, and closed-minded terms:

'... this is what I think!!! Too bad for anything or anyone else!!!...'

'... My mind has long been made up on this subject. Nothing, nor anyone could say anything that could ever change my position on the matter...'

or something you 'feral', keep repeating in your inimitable and most celebrated manner :




Just about everything said here, is self contradictory.

To suggest that 'god, christ (as god), and the bible (as word of god) are PROVEN TO BE REAL BY 'FERAL' ... is more than delusional, and a gauche blatant lie on its own stated merits. It is deceitful with the specific intent to deceive.

And that is proselytizing in its worst of forms.

To persistently, and stubbornly push one's BELIEFS as though they were REAL, and never make room for the voices that denounce the lie,

... is no longer the legitimate state of BELIEVING,

... it being delusional, and thus engaging IN BEING WILLFULLY AND INTENTIONNALLY DECEITFUL; THE HALLMARK OF ALL PROSELYTIZERS.

If anyone had actually attacked you on a personal basis, point out that post.



Proselytizing is not permitted in the General Religion forum. This is a new rule. You were given your own forum to post threads of that nature. Anything that you post in GR, is open to debate and discussion. This is a rule imposed by site admin. It has nothing to do with us personally and if you dont like it, take it up with Charles.



Well what I and several others are going to do is express our thoughts about biological evolution as is our right.It should pale in comparison to your sanctimonious diatribe and glowing word of the almighty himself. What are you complaining about?



I realize you have your beliefs. I do not have beliefs in the same sense that you do. I possess an understanding. I am always open to new scientific findings and research. If anything were to come available that supported the biblical picture, I would of course look into it. That has not happened.



It is obviously a challenge to post a thread denying the existence of macro evolution. This naturally will spark debate and discussion. What do you prefer that we do? Just agree with you like mindless automatons?



You people? What are we in 1950s segregated Alabama?



Well did it ever occur to you that some of those same people might read up about macro evolution and find it just as interesting? .....

Here ya go Krisma.....just on time and true to form.

Just about everything said is self contradictory.

To suggest that 'god, christ (as god), and the bible (as word of god) are PROVEN TO BE REAL BY 'FERAL' ... is more than delusional and a gauche blatant lie in its own right, it is deceitful with the specific intent to deceive.

And that is proselytizing in its worst of forms.

To persistently, and stubbornly push one's BELIEFS as though they were REAL, and never make room for the voices that denounce the lie,

... is no longer BELIEVING,

... it being delusional, and thus engaging IN BEING WILLINGLY AND INTENTIONNALLY DECEITFUL, THE HALLMARK OF ALL PROSELYTIZERS.



Debbie's answer:

First off voil it is not just believed by me.....so that statement is just plain false.


Self contradictory to you voil....there is a big difference....If you don't believe the same thing as myself so be it...But "YOU" have no right to call what I believe contradictory or anything else. It is my beliefs and just like with feelings voil I am entitled to mine. When I stated that for whatever you come up with I can take scripture and show my side...That is truth...that is my truth and you have no rights to tell me otherwise.

It is what it is......FOR ME AND THE MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS ON THIS PLANET. I don't tell anyone to believe it voil, and I don't say your going to be struck by lightening if you don't believe as I do...But again to call me delusional with a specific intent to deceive....NOW THAT IS DELUSIONAL.

I don't push my beliefs on anyone....For crying out loud this a religion forum....Would you like me to post Muslim or other beliefs or mine.....get a clue folks. I am never going to say that I am god, you are god, the trees are god, the flowers are god. But I never ever say and please voil just once show me if this is the case.....Believe what I am saying or die....

Now understand one thing.....example Joe Smoe comes into religion threads.....He sees what you abra, and K post....He knows nothing at all about God or anything else. Do you think in a million years I am not going to give him another option. Now here is the key. I don't ever ever ever say joe smoe believe me or die....now do I. I let them read and do with it what they want. And then what goes on behind the scenes is the beautuful part....I don't not once put you down for what you believe....because I don't know what the hell it is you believe....because you spend so much time countering what I say that you never have ever said what it is you believe.

Deb everything he just said there was TRUE. And he never attacked you on a personal level. Do you understand the difference? Im getting the sense that you dont. If someone referred to me as a B1tch or an idiot because I am a proponent of macro evolution, that would be a personal insult. The same would apply to you and no one has done any such thing that I have seen. If that were to occur, that person would be warned or banned.

Krisma:

To me calling me a dogma Proselytizing Christian is attacking me personally....I personally hate the words....I put out my beliefs just like all of you.....How about dogma Proselytizing evolutionist, or scientist.....instead of just calling you evolutionist or scientist....do you see the difference....

And obviously if I was doing anything against the rules Charles or Kristi or someone would surly let me know....But I am obviously not breaking any rules. I am doing just as you people are......and so again it is what it is.

You will never get me to agree about evolution because I don't believe it. You can express all you want about biological evolution and I will counter with why I feel it's crap...that is my right.

Don't assume I am not open to scientific findings because I am....I just haven't read anything that makes me go hmmmm it's all the same as it has been...and still proves all is just a theory.

And the big difference is you feel you have proved your case as I feel I have proved mine.

No K, I totally expect you all right after on my heels...but just get one thing....I don't put it out there to fight with you people...because frankly you already have your ways and what you believe....I put it out there for those really seeking.....

Ok there ya go K......and prejudice against people in Kentucky there K....for shame....

Putting down how I say something......tisk tisk. Debbie said, When I post where I do...it has nothing at all to do with you people

You people? What are we in 1950s segregated Alabama?

And if the people read about macro evolution and find it interesting and e-mail you to want to know more.....well yippy skippy I am totally fine with it.

People in Kentucky? What are you reading? I give up. Once again Deb, if you feel that he personally attacked you in any way, report it. Why do you think this gets laughed at every time Christians claim they are being bashed? If its simply more fun for you to play the martyr then go ahead but realize you will be ignored because complaints of that nature carry no weight.

Feral you certainly do have a right to post your opinions, your beliefs and to name or quote your sources (The Bible).

And anyone reading it has the option to believe it or not.

No, you personally have never told anyone that if they don't believe as you that they will die, (that I know of) but everyone that knows anything about the doctrine of Christianity knows that is the bottom line of that religion.

So if you don't tell people what (you believe) awaits them if they don't believe, then aren't you keeping something from them that is obviously a very important part of the teaching of Christianity?

Often the "hook" of the Jehovah witnesses religion is that "God loves you so much" and the world is very shortly coming to an end.... blah blah blah... and once they have you hooked then the guilt trips start coming at you like a bomb and they start telling you how much of a sinner you are to be leading the kind of life you are still leading, like smoking, and living with your boyfriend or having sex outside of marriage... etc on and on. The very people who got you into it are now sticking their noses in your life bit by bit, telling you what is right and what is wrong and pretty soon you are afraid to make any decisions or do anything without the approval of your religious group.

So any reasonable "hook" that takes you into a religion whose bottom line is hell if you are not "born again" and if you don't believe what they tell you, is a trap and a deception.

You don't have to personally tell them about the "catch" or the bottom line for it to eventually come up.

I have seen people get into a church because of the "hook" and then discover that the pastor has some of his own ideas about how they should be living their lives and before you know it they all move to South America and drink poison. (Jim Jones)

Even Christianity has so many different approaches that one has to be very careful whose "hook" they are caught on. What I always ask for is the bottom line.

The bottom line is if you do not accept Jesus as your personal savior and believe in him, and surrender to him, and believe that he is God or God's son, and that he died to save you from your sins.. etc, you will parish or go to the lake of fire... or what ever that particular church teaches.

The people here who debate with you are thinking of the 'hook' and the bottom line.

It's not a personal attack on you Feralcat, really it isn't. It's just one fish warning another fish that the bait that is squirming in front of them, is on a hook...

Did you not say this K.

You people? What are we in 1950s segregated Alabama?

That's not only a personal insult to me...but to the people of Alabama. You people half the time don't even see how you insult. And don't be so sure...I don't think people in Alabama would take this remark very well either K.

Yes but Alabama and Kentucky are TWO DIFFERENT STATES. I mean that your constant use of the description "you people" in reference to the proponents of macro evolution has a polarizing effect and creates an "us against them" mentality.

Im assuming thats what your primary objective is in doing so. Look up the Civil Rights movement.

I think what Krimsa is trying to illustrate is that when you use the term 'YOU PEOPLE" you are segregating what you see as "believers" and "non-believers" or "Christians" and "Pagans" etc.

If you would learn to see all people as just people like you, you would not always see life as such a battle and you would not perceived that everyone is on the attack against you.

People are just people. We should not see enemies where there are none.

Hey JB

And that is all I do is post my opinions...I can't have opinions of a Baptist, Muslim, panthiest because that is not I am what I am.

And again a total misuderstanding of what kind of Christian I am.....And that is not the bottom line of my religion. Jesus Christ loves all...and all have through their own freewill to come or not come...And again something I have posted over and over is I am no ones Judge and I am not. I will tell them if they ask....I don't say believe it or you will go to hell...because that would make me their judge and only God has that authority.

The teaching of Christianity to me, is teaching the gospels. Like in Acts when the church was first stated and people who saw the miracles wanted to learn more. They did and then they went out and brought people to Christ...Not from scaring the people but from the Love of Christ and for what he did when he died on the cross for OUR sins.

Now again total misunderstanding of Jehovah Witnesses. Now this also is a perfect example....I could of listen to what all said about Jehovah Witnesses and thought the same thing you do...But I didn't...I studied with them for a year. Never once did they say that God loves me and the world is coming to an end...become a Jehovah Witness and be saved. They studied the Bible with me....answered my questions and that was that. For me the reason I went away not wanting to be a Jehovah Witness was because they did re-write the Bible a lil bit.....but big enough for me to say no way. They believe Christ as a prophet...they don't believe in his resurection....Well I do so that was that.

But to this day they come over and we talk, have coffee and they are still to me human beings who believe as they do for their own reasons...And again I would never say your all going to hell for not believing in Christ and what he did for us. I am no ones judge.

And just for me JB anyone that guilts as you say or tries to bring people to Christ in fear...IS DEAD WRONG. And also anyone that throws in the face of anyone else that they are a sinnger.....All of us are sinners and if anyone thinks they are not....well they are only fooling themselves.


It is not a sin to smoke, it is a sin to live without marriage....but does that mean your going to hell.....well again I am not their judge...And maybe I am just lucky with my church or what Open Bible believes. We do not tell people what to do, how to live, that is between them and God. Will we hold each other accountable when it comes to sin....of course but out of love, not condemnation.

See also just like in OT days the Pharisees and Sadducees lived for tradition and did it with their own agenda...For when Christ came into the picture it gave all a chance to come to him and be saved. The Pharisees and Sadducees wanted to live with old tradition and OT law. Christ never said the laws were not important he just said now the traditions are no longer required, which then opened it up for Gentiles, and other Jews to be saved. That all who as in the name of Jesus Christ can be saved and have everlasting life.


1. Pharisee A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form.

2. A hypocritically self-righteous person.

I personally at least for me when I was searching and praying and asking the Lord to show me...That when I found the church where "The Lord" wanted me I just knew. And of course there is all kinds of crap out there and you have to weed through and see what is best for you.

And yes that is the bottom line is if you do not accept Jesus as your personal savior and believe in him, and surrender to him, and believe that he is God or God's son, you will parish or go to the lake of fire... or what ever that particular church teaches. But the good news is all will have the chance up until the last second when Jesus comes back. And for me this is why the Lord has put me out there. I know the Lord works and gives each of us talents mine is being bold and speaking of the Lord and the Gospels...I am proud of this fact. And again all I can do is put it out there...It's up to each individual to do with it as he sees fit for him. Believe or don't believe it's a personal choice, as my relationship to Christ is a personal one.

And again just for me...I get what you are saying and how unfair it may seem with the hook and how dare he tell me what to do. But I think you all know pretty much that no one tells Debbie what to do. I was shown through the Mighty Lord & Savior on so so many occasions and that is my choice to know that what He showed me and the path I am to take is right on for me. And this is not arrogance folks it's Faith.

Deb cant we all just agree to disagree and respectfully just post our thoughts and opinions on these threads? Why do we need to segregate people and make them feel bad ? The "us against them" is only going to be destructive and the problem with that kind of mindset is it is pervasive. Other Christians will read that and join league and before you know it, everyone is angry and insulting one another. Yes we all have different ponderings and let it go at that. You also have to realize that we are going to supply evidence for macro evolution just as you are going to show us your evidence. We each will attempt to counter one another. That is the nature of debate but you should not take it as a personal criticism of self. When you watch a Discovery Show and the topic is Evolution, do you write to the cable company in complete outrage?