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Topic: What is Truth to you?
no photo
Mon 12/29/08 09:27 PM
Edited by smiless on Mon 12/29/08 09:33 PM
Truth. What is truth? Philosopher's have been asking this question for centuries, and they've finally come up with their answer in the past few decades.

Their answer: there is no truth.

Well, that sucks for humanity I guess, at least if they are right. Before I continue though, I would like to make a quick point. Saying that there is no truth, that is a truth in itself. And considering there is no truth, at least in the philosopher's mind, that's seems sketchy. And if what they say is true, which it can't be because "truth" doesn't exist to them, then humanity has a huge problem, one that we can not fix.

This new philosophical theory is known as Post-modernism, and related to post-modernism is Existentialism, Pluralism, Nihilism, Reletivism and any other of the -ism's for the most part.

While all of them have their differences, they all have one thing in common, no single supreme being, no God. And all of this packed into two little words.

I won't bore you with the details of each of these -ism's, but I would like to mention a few things about them.

1. Post-modernism- of, relating to, or being a theory that involves a radical reappraisal of modern assumptions about culture, identity, history, or language. In other words, a complete overhaul of society needs to be done, religion must be executed, and Christianity might be the only thing that stands in its' path. Problem: post-modernism claims that there is very little wrong in the world. Take a look around and tell me if that is true, because it isn't. Post-modernism also says there is no truth, which means there is no God, which means man is God. And if man is God, then we are in deep trouble.

Does that mean all decisions that man makes is bad? Of course not. But many are, and those are more easily noticed than the good ones.

2. Existentialism- a chiefly 20th century philosophical movement embracing diverse doctrines but centering on analysis of individual existence in an unfathomable universe and the plight of the individual who must assume ultimate responsibility for acts of free will without any certain knowledge of what is right or wrong or good or bad. In other words, we must take the consequences of our actions, and if their is an eternity, we are judged by those actions. Problem: if we are to be judged by our actions, then we should all burn in hell.

3. Pluralism- the theory that all paths lead to where they say they end. In other words, the Christian gets to Heaven, the Muslim gets to paradise, etc, the only rule is, however, that you cannot say your beleif is better than mine. The problem with this theory is that why would the "gods" of so many religions all agree to let everyone reach the endpoint of where that religion aims? And if the "gods" of these religions are all powerful, as many of them claim to be, then why would they allow a powerless being who would be beneath them be a "god"?


So, what are some of the ending possibilities of these philosophies? What are the consequences? All actions and beliefs have consequences, even an existentialist would agree with that.

We are even seeing some of the consequences now: the decay of morals in society, the loss of some freedoms worldwide, an increasing number of wars.

If man is God, as the post-modernist says, we are doing a pretty crappy job, and here's why: We let our actions be affected by the actions of others around us. In other words, we let outside forces control what we do, and that's not the definition of the word god, in any culture.

All of this from two simple words that have become so dangerous to the world: Why not? And all of this I have written only scratches the surface.

So what is truth for you?

MirrorMirror's photo
Mon 12/29/08 09:29 PM

Truth. What is truth? Philosopher's have been asking this question for centuries, and they've finally come up with their answer in the past few decades.

Their answer: there is no truth.

Well, that sucks for humanity I guess, at least if they are right. Before I continue though, I would like to make a quick point. Saying that there is no truth, that is a truth in itself. And considering there is no truth, at least in the philosopher's mind, that's seems sketchy. And if what they say is true, which it can't be because "truth" doesn't exist to them, then humanity has a huge problem, one that we can not fix.

This new philosophical theory is known as Post-modernism, and related to post-modernism is Existentialism, Pluralism, Nihilism, Reletivism and any other of the -ism's for the most part.

While all of them have their differences, they all have one thing in common, no single supreme being, no God. And all of this packed into two little words.

I won't bore you with the details of each of these -ism's, but I would like to mention a few things about them.

1. Post-modernism- of, relating to, or being a theory that involves a radical reappraisal of modern assumptions about culture, identity, history, or language. In other words, a complete overhaul of society needs to be done, religion must be executed, and Christianity might be the only thing that stands in its' path. Problem: post-modernism claims that there is very little wrong in the world. Take a look around and tell me if that is true, because it isn't. Post-modernism also says there is no truth, which means there is no God, which means man is God. And if man is God, then we are in deep trouble.

Does that mean all decisions that man makes is bad? Of course not. But many are, and those are more easily noticed than the good ones.

2. Existentialism- a chiefly 20th century philosophical movement embracing diverse doctrines but centering on analysis of individual existence in an unfathomable universe and the plight of the individual who must assume ultimate responsibility for acts of free will without any certain knowledge of what is right or wrong or good or bad. In other words, we must take the consequences of our actions, and if their is an eternity, we are judged by those actions. Problem: if we are to be judged by our actions, then we should all burn in hell.

3. Pluralism- the theory that all paths lead to where they say they end. In other words, the Christian gets to Heaven, the Muslim gets to paradise, etc, the only rule is, however, that you cannot say your beleif is better than mine. The problem with this theory is that why would the "gods" of so many religions all agree to let everyone reach the endpoint of where that religion aims? And if the "gods" of these religions are all powerful, as many of them claim to be, then why would they allow a powerless being who would be beneath them be a "god"?


So, what are some of the ending possibilities of these philosphies? What are the consequences? All actions and beleifs have consequences, even an existentialist would agree with that.

We are even seeing some of the consequences now: the decay of morals in society, the loss of some religious freedoms worldwide, an increasing number of wars.

If man is God, as the post-modernist says, we are doing a pretty crappy job, and here's why: We let our actions be affected by the actions of others around us. In other words, we let outside forces control what we do, and that's not the definition of the word god, in any culture.

All of this from two simple words that have become so dangerous to the world: Why not? And all of this I have written only scratches the surface.

So what is truth for you?

shades Objective reality rather than subjective realityshades

writer_gurl's photo
Mon 12/29/08 09:31 PM
The oppisite of a lie:angel:

Strange's photo
Tue 12/30/08 10:21 AM
HOw can you state there is no truth without contradiction?

no photo
Tue 12/30/08 01:43 PM
This is a cop-out. Truth is any statement that is consistent with reality.

Wow that was hard wasn't it. If you mean universal truth, well we need to define the extent of the universe first and thats the problem, scope creep.

Keep your scope simple. In context to a decimal number system 2+2=4 is a true statement.

no photo
Tue 12/30/08 01:55 PM
Well, I know that my truth is not necessarily somebody else s
truth. Which in my eyes doesn't make either truth less valid.

Krimsa's photo
Tue 12/30/08 02:05 PM

This is a cop-out. Truth is any statement that is consistent with reality.

Wow that was hard wasn't it. If you mean universal truth, well we need to define the extent of the universe first and thats the problem, scope creep.

Keep your scope simple. In context to a decimal number system 2+2=4 is a true statement.



Right. I was thinking the exact same thing myself. People tend to like to project the fallacy that there is no truth and its all "subjective" when you are trying to convince them that what their personal concept of truth is, falls short in the grim face of objective reality.

I think we are probably just too analytical for our own good Jeremy. :wink:

no photo
Tue 12/30/08 02:14 PM

Well, I know that my truth is not necessarily somebody else s
truth. Which in my eyes doesn't make either truth less valid.


or it could be totally untruthful on another planet of species we don't know aboutlaugh

In the end many have common ground in agreeing to a truth on something, but there will always be someone who doesn't find it truthful even if it is as simple as 2+2 equation.

no photo
Tue 12/30/08 02:16 PM
So what is truth for you?


On the intellectual or mind level, truth is information. All information.

On the external objective level, truth is consciousness (God) in expression... which would be living beings, people. Living things are God made flesh.

On the personal level, truth is self.

Krimsa's photo
Tue 12/30/08 02:23 PM


Well, I know that my truth is not necessarily somebody else s
truth. Which in my eyes doesn't make either truth less valid.


or it could be totally untruthful on another planet of species we don't know aboutlaugh

In the end many have common ground in agreeing to a truth on something, but there will always be someone who doesn't find it truthful even if it is as simple as 2+2 equation.



Thats true. laugh People will always disagree and that is their right. If others were not constantly ready and willing to argue the "truth" of their own personal subjective reality, then the General Religion forum would probably not exist due to lack of arguable material. We would simply all believe in the pod people or something and no one would bother to argue their own personal definition of truth.

no photo
Tue 12/30/08 02:30 PM



Well, I know that my truth is not necessarily somebody else s
truth. Which in my eyes doesn't make either truth less valid.


or it could be totally untruthful on another planet of species we don't know aboutlaugh

In the end many have common ground in agreeing to a truth on something, but there will always be someone who doesn't find it truthful even if it is as simple as 2+2 equation.



Thats true. laugh People will always disagree and that is their right. If others were not constantly ready and willing to argue the "truth" of their own personal subjective reality, then the General Religion forum would probably not exist due to lack of arguable material. We would simply all believe in the pod people or something and no one would bother to argue their own personal definition of truth.


Yes and that is happening now where no one argues. It is in the Buddhist thread. No disagreements. It is like a group of people looking at the same quote I posted 2 months agolaugh

Krimsa's photo
Tue 12/30/08 02:36 PM
A lot of the Wiccan or Pagan websites and forums are like that also or so I hear. Im not a member on any of them right now. Its basically just because there is less to argue as its already understood that Pagans have no consensus on their beliefs. Threy follow differing paths. As far as the Buddhist thread or topic, there wont be much disagreement because that is one spirituality you are discussing. The same happens in the Christian Singles forum. They might have minor disagreement over the interpretation of a passage of scripture but no one is demanding that they defend their beliefs or choice in god as would occur in General Religion.

no photo
Tue 12/30/08 02:49 PM
Well like my favorite professor always said

"Follow your Bliss" - Professor Joseph Campbell

(never met him but sure wish I did when he was alive)

May everyone find the Truth that works best for them for they are the ones who have to be satisfied before going to bed each day.


no photo
Tue 12/30/08 04:20 PM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Tue 12/30/08 04:21 PM

Well like my favorite professor always said

"Follow your Bliss" - Professor Joseph Campbell

(never met him but sure wish I did when he was alive)

May everyone find the Truth that works best for them for they are the ones who have to be satisfied before going to bed each day.


Not me. I hope everyone instead learns to use the tools of analysis and never settle for a personal truth that isn't within 10 placeholders of a perfect 100% consistency with reality.

Actually I am being anal I am too lazy to hold myself to that definition so instead ill say within the standard margin of error for statistics 95% (.98 confidence) will have to do.

So you can be like me and claim no truth that cannot be analyzed, or else face the wrath of skeptical face <<

no photo
Tue 12/30/08 04:30 PM


Well like my favorite professor always said

"Follow your Bliss" - Professor Joseph Campbell

(never met him but sure wish I did when he was alive)

May everyone find the Truth that works best for them for they are the ones who have to be satisfied before going to bed each day.


Not me. I hope everyone instead learns to use the tools of analysis and never settle for a personal truth that isn't within 10 placeholders of a perfect 100% consistency with reality.

Actually I am being anal I am too lazy to hold myself to that definition so instead ill say within the standard margin of error for statistics 95% (.98 confidence) will have to do.

So you can be like me and claim no truth that cannot be analyzed, or else face the wrath of skeptical face <<



What ever works for you bushbilly. drinker bigsmile

skypoetone's photo
Tue 12/30/08 04:56 PM
Truth is subjective; simply how you perceive it... how do you know that your life isn't just an illusion? How can we be certain that we are the only "intelligent" species in the universe or multiverse?

no photo
Tue 12/30/08 05:33 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Tue 12/30/08 05:34 PM

Truth is subjective; simply how you perceive it... how do you know that your life isn't just an illusion? How can we be certain that we are the only "intelligent" species in the universe or multiverse?



The one and only thing I am certain of is that I exist.

I am not sure what I am but I know that I exist.

This world and my life may be just an illusion and my body a holographic projection of my higher mind, but I do know for certain that I exist.

I am.

All else is opinion.

no photo
Tue 12/30/08 09:17 PM


This is a cop-out. Truth is any statement that is consistent with reality.

Wow that was hard wasn't it. If you mean universal truth, well we need to define the extent of the universe first and thats the problem, scope creep.

Keep your scope simple. In context to a decimal number system 2+2=4 is a true statement.



Right. I was thinking the exact same thing myself. People tend to like to project the fallacy that there is no truth and its all "subjective" when you are trying to convince them that what their personal concept of truth is, falls short in the grim face of objective reality.

I think we are probably just too analytical for our own good Jeremy. :wink:
drinker

Krimsa's photo
Wed 12/31/08 05:12 AM
People have every right to believe in whatever they want. I consider myself fairly conservative and a skeptic to some degree. However I know for a fact that there are unexplainable UFO sightings because I dated a commercial aircraft pilot for a few years and he had personal experience with this phenomena. Not only that, there are records of these accounts detailed by air traffic control.

So yes absolutely I find this to be intriguing.

Will I sit here and tell you I have proof of the existence of alien beings and extraterritorial life or flying crafts not of human design or origin? Nope.

That is not a personal truth in my estimation. That is something that warrants further research.

TheLonelyWalker's photo
Wed 12/31/08 01:33 PM
Truth is whatever i can see absolutely clearly, and which is absolutely distinguishable from other things.

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