True. I don't care what they say behind my back, but they are careful about what they say to my face, they already are pretty aware that I am not one to back off or be apologetic on any gay issue.

Never be apologetic for whom you are.

Delsoldamien - REPLY is in two parts – see following post.



Have you ever heard the phrase “actions speak louder than words”? You contradict yourself in the following way.

You don’t care if gays are “allowed” to be joined in a ceremony that would extend, to that couple, mutual benefit and responsibility for all the laws “currently” inclusive of the marriage contract.

You should care – you should care because the Constitution of this country is being called to bear witness to an infraction of its code. If you care at all for your own human rights you should be making at least one tiny effort to support the millions who are being denied what we are all guaranteed, by law.

I do not believe in any god, and it is the Constitution that allows me to say that. You believe in a particular God and in a particular religious sect, that is your right afforded to you through the Constitution. If your right in this matter was being denied to you and millions like you, I would make a “huge” effort to amend the offense.

Yet you don’t care; there is the contradiction. You don’t care because you think it doesn’t affect you – it does. It affects you every time equality is denied to millions, it affects because people like you can’t see the possibilities of future infractions of the law, which could affect you. And who will care? I will!




What are the “right” reasons for divorce? And tell me where it says, in your Bible, that a woman can remarry after a divorce? In fact, if you think about it – what ceremony does your church have in which a divorce is recognized. How would you know that any divorce was legitimate; in accordance with what you say is in the Bible regarding “right” reasons? You must have such a thing or else how would you know it was ok to date and marry a divorcee from your own parish? Please explain?

The only reason for bringing this up is to demonstrate your inconsistency. If a same sex couple are members of your church why can’t they marry? What makes their sin greater than the sin of adultery? Yet you would celebrate with a traditional wedding ceremony the right of an adulterer to continue to live in sin? How is that consistent thinking?



Well there is the answer to one of my questions – the sin of loving a person of the same sex is no greater than any other sin – so why are they not allowed to be married in church, in the sight of the same God you and they share a belief in? Why not let God be the judge?



Sir, there were never words in our Constitution that disallowed same-sex marriage until President Bush created them. He did so in support of a religious value, not to correct the law. No President has EVER been given that kind of power. Not even Kennedy was allowed such power on Civil Rights issues. If you support that kind of power, then you support a power that can take away your right to practice religion as you wish. If you think that can never happen, then the YOU in your statement “you have not held them accountable” refers to YOU because YOU have not held Bush accountable for the action he took, YOU risk a similar action against you in another round.

You and me are US – WE must hold all elected officials accountable for their actions and WE are responsible for the inequalities that exist when we don’t.



It’s your book, it’s your belief and here you are telling me you don’t know where to find the information relating divorce to a sin – yet in the next sentence you say….



I have asked above that you explain to me what those conditions are AND also how you and any congregation would be aware of those conditions before you celebrate the remarriage of a divorced person? It’s your book, these are your beliefs, the proof is in your hands. If you want to make me understand clarify your position with the words that give you these beliefs.

Delsoldamien - REPLY Part 2



In the analogy you gave about Jesus saving the prostitute from being stoned, he is making those who would stone her see that they too have sinned and should not cast stones in judgment of another’s sin. You cast the stones allowing your church to judge a sin and discriminate against those who commit that one particular sin. While WE are BOTH responsible for the government of this country, I am not responsible for the way in which YOU and YOUR church conduct your affairs. Therefore, if YOU allow your church to cast the stones, they come from your hand.



We are having a discussion, not every discussion is amicable. The problem with a discussion is that opinion may require some back up.




I have given many examples of the discrimination that exists. I have explained why it exists, these are not just my opinions. On the other hand you offer opinions, based on beliefs, which you can only generalize about, and you ask ME, A non religious person, to show YOU where YOUR beliefs are stated in the bible.

Again I would ask YOU, where all the rules about marriage and divorce?




If you judge a law to be a good one, but others show you the error in that law is it not passing judgment to allow the law to stand or is it just complacency because it does not affect you?

Inaction can be the action one takes upon making a judgment. If you choose not to take part in correcting a wrong that clearly keeps others under oppression, you are the instrument of that oppression.



You do point out the sinners, you point them out every time a same sex couple is refused the rite of marriage in your church. You are inconsistent because you celebrate the rite of marriage between ongoing adulterers. You have not proven to ANYONE, that your beliefs have an merit or even basis. You simply point to a book.




I have shown no discrimination, other than to give your posts the most attention. I do so for the sake of discussion, for in a discussion there is usually some persuasive motive. I’m simply trying to persuade you to take the same action your words are stating. Prove you hold no sin above another, prove you stand behind human rights, prove the reason for your beliefs by giving the passages in which they are found. These are hard things to do and some of them are especially hard because they require you to analyze your own motives, your own beliefs and your own actions.

Sin is Sin.

We are warned the path of Sin = Pain.
Than we are given Free Will to choose the path of sin or not.


I don't think there are any Priest that still sell "sin forgiveness Tickets" in today's time. Back when the Church have the only copy of the Bible in Town, the Priest got away with money rip-off schemes.

You didn't say any particular religion.
But Christianity is in the forefront and align with Republican Conservatives to stop Gay Marriage.

I believe Jesus is the Son of God and our savior.
Like any effective powerful Manipulation & Brainwashing techniques, it requires an "undeniable Truth" base to warp and surround with LIES. Who would dare speak out against God, Family & Country? Why do all Con Email quote "God" or "Jesus"? (It pulls your Guard down... from asking "Why").

Man is corrupted and will corrupt any thing he touches, even religion.

I believe the Gay Marriage issue was started by the Conservative Republican Christian Right. I don't know of any Gay people that thinks it is really that important of an issue to get married.

You might actually have a very good point. I don't remember ever really caring about this until the conservative party started using us to gain votes by scaring their base half to death with things they didn't understand in the first place.

Though now that they spilled the last worm, I have been willing to stand up for those who care about if far more than I ever did or do now. So I think the Right has created their own monster and it just so happens that the gay community is fed up and are ready to fight this long term.