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| Topic: Hitler On Christianity | |
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I have a hard time believing that. Im not sure who said that exactly. Especially after that quote taken from the Nazi constitution. Or their equivalent.
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Edited by
smiless
on
Wed 12/17/08 11:03 AM
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There must have been something about this man. Many eyewitnesses of his speeches claimed to have been moved beyond any other experience, but upon being asked what he said they could not for their life remember a word. You clearly have never been hungry before 
When you get to that stage where your stomach starts eating its own intestines then a speech to bring hope for work, food, money, and a chance to raise a family always sounds good. 
Thats very true. That was also how Christianity was used as an additional dagger. There was already a climate of mounting hate being directed towards the Jewish populace since WW1 so Hitler simply used religion in order to further create a divide and nurture the "Us against them" mindset. Yes it was all strategy. One also has to remember that the German Jews (Yiddish they speak) which I also can speak and write had primarily some of the best businesses in the country including Austria. When Hitler finished his apprenticeship he couldn't find work in the town for the majority of the businesses were Jewish owned. They would hire Jewish people to work only in their businesses. It was a frustrating time for him as a young man. Jewish people even here in Miami don't accept other children in their schools (which are good schools by the way) unless you are of Jewish origin. I am not trying to defend Hitler and his actions. Don't get me wrong. I don't believe two wrongs makes one right,(not that the German Jews did anything wrong) but I must add that it clearly had its reasons why he agreed to use Christianity (if practiced wrong or not - to defend christians here on the forum) to gain access to become supreme ruler of the lands. Because of this strategy, he gained more support from the Christian community. |
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Smiless, Winx didn't say that. 
Thank you for the educational post. My cousin is married to a German woman and they live in Germany. I have heard how well the educational system has treated his children. Sadly, my cousin is being taken care of now by their health care system. He was in bad car accident. My pleasure and I hope that education becomes priority for the world. I am sorry for your cousin. I hope he will get better soon. Thank you. I hear they're taking good care of him. This is what I didn't say in your post, "Of course as Winx said the Germans didn't know what his true intentions were until it was to late to do anything about it." Just wanted to clear that up. 
Don't worry about what you said. I wasn't accussing you, but just using what you started as a elaboration of how I see this war and the use of religion. I have been called infidel, zealout, heathen, nazi, ass, and other things because of my viewpoints through emails. I have come accustomed to always knowing that at least one person will always disagree with you.
I am not saying you said any of these things and I know you respect everyone in the forums. Good people are recognized all the time. I would salute you with my orange juice if I could, but just imagine I did 
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Wed 12/17/08 11:04 AM
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No one needs to take a defensive posture. All we are discussing here is historical information. Anyone can jump in and dispute something if they like.
The other day when the Christians started crying about this I made the analogy that to blame modern day Christians for the atrocities committed by Adolf Hitler and his regime would be akin to African Americans today holding a grudge against ALL white people for slavery. Thats not the purpose of offering up this information. |
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Smiless, Winx didn't say that.
Thank you for the educational post. My cousin is married to a German woman and they live in Germany. I have heard how well the educational system has treated his children. Sadly, my cousin is being taken care of now by their health care system. He was in bad car accident. My pleasure and I hope that education becomes priority for the world. I am sorry for your cousin. I hope he will get better soon. Thank you. I hear they're taking good care of him. This is what I didn't say in your post, "Of course as Winx said the Germans didn't know what his true intentions were until it was to late to do anything about it." Just wanted to clear that up.
Don't worry about what you said. I wasn't accussing you, but just using what you started as a elaboration of how I see this war and the use of religion. I have been called infidel, zealout, heathen, nazi, ass, and other things because of my viewpoints through emails. I have come accustomed to always knowing that at least one person will always disagree with you.
I am not saying you said any of these things and I know you respect everyone in the forums. Good people are recognized all the time. I would salute you with my orange juice if I could, but just imagine I did
Smiless, I think Britty gets credit for that.
Gosh, Smiless, that's terrible that people have emailed you and said those things. I'm so sorry. Thank you for the salute. I like orange juice. 
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I am such a nutcase that I forget who is talking to me
I apologize for mixing up you Britty and Winx together.
You see you both look so beautiful
Have a great day as I am off to pick up my daughter.
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Thank you very much for sharing that smiles. I did not elaborate on my thoughts too much because I did not want you or anyone else to be offended. I often wondered as an 'idealistic' teenager how a woman would be able to tolerate her husband being a part of that, and be able to allow her young sons to be part of that regime. As I have learnt over the years, life is not that simple, and I am sure many did what they felt they had to in order to survive. We cannot judge them for that until we have walked in their shoes. "Today regardless of what you think of Germans, I am proud of my nationality. We have great philosophers, musicians, inventors, scholars, and we are considered the third strongest economy in the world. Not only do we have universal health care and education, we have a system that takes care of the people. We believe Health and Education is not a privilige, but a must for everyone in the country to have. College and University doesn't cost a cent, except for books and is equivalent to an American Degree. We have a health care system that the world envies. I can get a heart transplant without worrying about how much money I have to pay for this operation. I can get a education with a degree without leaving in a great debt of payments. I can go on and on about the greatness of Germany today, but I will leave it at that" You should be rightly proud of your country!
It truly was a horrible war and I have sat down with veterans of both world war 1 and 2 in pubs drinking german beer discussing events that you don't read in history books. I remember now that it is almost Christmas time, I had a friend who at the time was 92 and I was 18. lol They actually got together around a huge round oak table with a bell on it. They were over 20 and each year one would die and they would put a x on the huge billboard. Today no one is alive from that group as I am 40 now. He said he was stationed in Morroco in WW2 and the enemy at the time was only a few miles away. In the day time they would exchange bullets and at night time they would have soccer competitions. They would lay down their weapons and go play some soccer keeping score of the games throughout the war. At Christmas (only at night) they would exchange Christmas songs while sitting in the ditches. He said nobody really wanted to fight, but they had to when the high official officers would pay them visits. Now I am certain that cannot be read in a history book unless a surviving member writes about it one day. You were fortunate to have had that experience as a young man, there is much wisdom to be learned from our elders. I also heard from older generations about the exchanging of Christmas gifts. Not many would talk about the really bad things to a youngster. So true, it is not something that is to be found in a history book.
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Edited by
smiless
on
Wed 12/17/08 12:14 PM
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Thank you very much for sharing that smiles. I did not elaborate on my thoughts too much because I did not want you or anyone else to be offended. I often wondered as an 'idealistic' teenager how a woman would be able to tolerate her husband being a part of that, and be able to allow her young sons to be part of that regime. As I have learnt over the years, life is not that simple, and I am sure many did what they felt they had to in order to survive. We cannot judge them for that until we have walked in their shoes. "Today regardless of what you think of Germans, I am proud of my nationality. We have great philosophers, musicians, inventors, scholars, and we are considered the third strongest economy in the world. Not only do we have universal health care and education, we have a system that takes care of the people. We believe Health and Education is not a privilige, but a must for everyone in the country to have. College and University doesn't cost a cent, except for books and is equivalent to an American Degree. We have a health care system that the world envies. I can get a heart transplant without worrying about how much money I have to pay for this operation. I can get a education with a degree without leaving in a great debt of payments. I can go on and on about the greatness of Germany today, but I will leave it at that" You should be rightly proud of your country!
It truly was a horrible war and I have sat down with veterans of both world war 1 and 2 in pubs drinking german beer discussing events that you don't read in history books. I remember now that it is almost Christmas time, I had a friend who at the time was 92 and I was 18. lol They actually got together around a huge round oak table with a bell on it. They were over 20 and each year one would die and they would put a x on the huge billboard. Today no one is alive from that group as I am 40 now. He said he was stationed in Morroco in WW2 and the enemy at the time was only a few miles away. In the day time they would exchange bullets and at night time they would have soccer competitions. They would lay down their weapons and go play some soccer keeping score of the games throughout the war. At Christmas (only at night) they would exchange Christmas songs while sitting in the ditches. He said nobody really wanted to fight, but they had to when the high official officers would pay them visits. Now I am certain that cannot be read in a history book unless a surviving member writes about it one day. You were fortunate to have had that experience as a young man, there is much wisdom to be learned from our elders. I also heard from older generations about the exchanging of Christmas gifts. Not many would talk about the really bad things to a youngster. So true, it is not something that is to be found in a history book.
Yes many war veterans hesitate to talk about what atrocities they have experienced. I guess for these German soldiers who sat together every Thursday to have many mugs of beer it was easier to express their pass experiences in a group. I am lucky to have met them and see a different perspective of what happened in this most complicated war that covered the world at its time. And not that I know everything about this war for that would take a lifetime to learn. The history of WWII is vast, and it is not my cup of tea to stay interested in for long periods of time. I am not into wars. Quiet the oppossite. I am into peacekeepers. Those are the kind of people who keep my interest for long periods at a time. |
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The main interest I have in these topics and war specifically is that if we ignore it or say I dont want to look at that or its in the past forget about it, we risk repeating these same mistakes
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Yes, I can understand that. Unfortunately, history does repeat itself, that is the state of the human condition and it will in future as you will probably find out. |
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Yes, I can understand that. Unfortunately, history does repeat itself, that is the state of the human condition and it will in future as you will probably find out. Well Im glad we can agree on that point at least Britty. While I have NOTHING against modern day Christians per se and they have every right to believe as they will just as we all do, it is nonetheless important that they not deny this very real historical occurrence. Christianity was used as a "wedge" in this case. I have been referring to it as a "dagger" in the side of the Jews, but you get the drift. To ignore it and try to re-assign blame is not going to fly. Not on my watch. |
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Edited by
smiless
on
Wed 12/17/08 01:27 PM
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I tell you one thing. Hitler is truly getting alot of attention in the general religion forum for over a week now.
Did you know that Time Magazine almost nominated Hitler as the Man of the Century? Why don't ask me how the man got in the mix. They did somekind of voting or chart statistic. Don't ask me how, but it is amazing that he almost got his face on the Time Magazine front cover of 2000. I think Albert Einstein or Mahatma Ghandi won it though buy a few points. Would have to go back and see to make sure. |
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I think those are just based on historical interest. Not if the person was considered "good" or "bad".
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I am so through on this topic.You have been debunked,out smarted,and proven wrong so many times that they only people that want to debate this with you is myself and I am through with you.There is two people on this planet that believe Hitler is a Christian.You and Abra.I don't think it would matter if I had a picture of Hitler throwing the pope in a fire.You would still deny it.We all know Hitler was only interested in his master race and his mater plan which didn't involve churches second guessing his orders nor did it involve churches having their own laws in his country in his governement.Your posts are nothing more than conspiracy theories and he said she said.You seem to have a serious problem admitting facts and denying truth. There needs to be two rooms in General religion chat. 1.)Topics that are backed up with facts. 2.)Conspiracy theories with lies and half truths. You would fit in the later.You are not interested in having a debate unless you are always right.I would rather debate with my dog then with you. Thomas grow up. All I have shown here is historically accurate data. If you can prove to me that Hitler was not a practicing Catholic then do it. Using information from websites owned by the Catholic church wont cut it. Im sorry but that is the reality. My rebuttal information came from the words of a Cardinal just to be fair. He himself even stated that over 800 different Catholic organizations in Europe were helping the Nazies round up forced laborers for transport. "It should not be concealed that the Catholic Church was blind for too long to the fate and suffering of men, women and children from the whole of Europe who were carted off to Germany as forced labourers," said Cardinal Karl Lehmann, the bishop of Mainz. It seems to me that you have a different idea about what a "practicing Catholic" is. Could you please explain that. Once you do - I would be happy to provide you proof. |
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Abracadabra said: I never claimed that Hitler was a Christian.
All I said is that Hilter used Christianity in his speeches to convince the public. I know those are fact, I could go look it up again, but it's readly available information. Look it up yourself. I said at the onset that Hitler's personal beliefs are moot. That doesn't change the fact that he used Christianity to support his goals. The mere fact that the religion can be used to convince people to murder heathens should be disgusting enough. Chirsitianity has a history of being used to murder heathens. 1. The Crusades (who can deny that?) 2. The witch burnings (who can deny that?) 3. The mass murdering of the Cathers ordered by the Pope. (look it up!) I think Krimsa has clearly showed that Hitler at least used Christianity to support his anti-jewish agenda. Whether he believed in the religion or not is moot. The fact that it can even be used to denounce heathens should be enough to denounce the religion. People use it all the time to denounce heathens (maybe not murder them), but they surely use it to murder their spirit. There's no defense for the religion Yes I would agree with Abra's assessment. If the modern day Christians on this forum want to dispute exactly what Hitler's personal beliefs or understanding of Christianity and the bible was, go right ahead. That is a moot point in the wake of 11 million dead people (dont start arguing the numbers now) The point here is that Christianity was used as a vehicle of destruction as it has been utilized often throughout history to justify the mass torture, imprisonment and murder of humans. Im sure its done other good things but this thread is not addressing that. It is addressing misinformation that is being espoused as fact by individuals. You mean like te way you make the leap from Hitler's using christianity to actually being a christian? But we can't seem to get you to stop spewing misinformation. Any suggestions on that? |
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Gott Mit Uns (God With Us) Nazi Buckle And which God is that? Allah, the Pantheistic God, Zeus... |
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Gott Mit Uns (God With Us) Nazi Buckle And which God is that? Allah, the Pantheistic God, Zeus... Oprah. |
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Gott Mit Uns (God With Us) Nazi Buckle And which God is that? Allah, the Pantheistic God, Zeus... I dunno Eljay. You tell me based on this speech circa 1922. "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. Adolph Hitler |
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I am so through on this topic.You have been debunked,out smarted,and proven wrong so many times that they only people that want to debate this with you is myself and I am through with you.There is two people on this planet that believe Hitler is a Christian.You and Abra.I don't think it would matter if I had a picture of Hitler throwing the pope in a fire.You would still deny it.We all know Hitler was only interested in his master race and his mater plan which didn't involve churches second guessing his orders nor did it involve churches having their own laws in his country in his governement.Your posts are nothing more than conspiracy theories and he said she said.You seem to have a serious problem admitting facts and denying truth. There needs to be two rooms in General religion chat. 1.)Topics that are backed up with facts. 2.)Conspiracy theories with lies and half truths. You would fit in the later.You are not interested in having a debate unless you are always right.I would rather debate with my dog then with you. Thomas grow up. All I have shown here is historically accurate data. If you can prove to me that Hitler was not a practicing Catholic then do it. Using information from websites owned by the Catholic church wont cut it. Im sorry but that is the reality. My rebuttal information came from the words of a Cardinal just to be fair. He himself even stated that over 800 different Catholic organizations in Europe were helping the Nazies round up forced laborers for transport. "It should not be concealed that the Catholic Church was blind for too long to the fate and suffering of men, women and children from the whole of Europe who were carted off to Germany as forced labourers," said Cardinal Karl Lehmann, the bishop of Mainz. It seems to me that you have a different idea about what a "practicing Catholic" is. Could you please explain that. Once you do - I would be happy to provide you proof. So you are saying this Cardinal is not a practicing Catholic? Okay... |
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I am so through on this topic.You have been debunked,out smarted,and proven wrong so many times that they only people that want to debate this with you is myself and I am through with you.There is two people on this planet that believe Hitler is a Christian.You and Abra.I don't think it would matter if I had a picture of Hitler throwing the pope in a fire.You would still deny it.We all know Hitler was only interested in his master race and his mater plan which didn't involve churches second guessing his orders nor did it involve churches having their own laws in his country in his governement.Your posts are nothing more than conspiracy theories and he said she said.You seem to have a serious problem admitting facts and denying truth. There needs to be two rooms in General religion chat. 1.)Topics that are backed up with facts. 2.)Conspiracy theories with lies and half truths. You would fit in the later.You are not interested in having a debate unless you are always right.I would rather debate with my dog then with you. Thomas grow up. All I have shown here is historically accurate data. If you can prove to me that Hitler was not a practicing Catholic then do it. Using information from websites owned by the Catholic church wont cut it. Im sorry but that is the reality. My rebuttal information came from the words of a Cardinal just to be fair. He himself even stated that over 800 different Catholic organizations in Europe were helping the Nazies round up forced laborers for transport. "It should not be concealed that the Catholic Church was blind for too long to the fate and suffering of men, women and children from the whole of Europe who were carted off to Germany as forced labourers," said Cardinal Karl Lehmann, the bishop of Mainz. It seems to me that you have a different idea about what a "practicing Catholic" is. Could you please explain that. Once you do - I would be happy to provide you proof. So you are saying this Cardinal is not a practicing Catholic? Okay... I don't know how to respond to your question because I have no idea what you mean when you say "practicing catholic". And since you make no effort to clarify your semantics for me - asking me questions about stuff is a waste of time. |
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