Ok. so ......... uhhhhhhhhhh ..........

<waiting for gyros to restabilize at new orientation>

Then maybe we also agree on a couple other levels of reasoning...

That the "Law of Attraction" is simply a tool for assisting one in influencing their subsoncious automaticities? Sort of like a lever is used to move something that one could not move by muscle power alone.

And further, that the ideal situation would be to actually "take over" the subconscious automaticities so that they are consciously controlled. (i.e. actually becom strong enough to move the thing without having to use the lever)

?


(I realize that eventually we're going to run up against the All=One=All difference of opinion, but I'd like to see how far we can get before we hit that burned bridge.)

I'm not pitting anything against anything. I was simply trying to address the topic of the thread.

John started this thread with the question at the top of the OP that askes:



So it seems to me that the topic of this thread is to discuss how the Laws of Attraction might apply to witchcraft, etc.

EXCUSE ME, for trying to address the topic.

This Law of Attraction thing is "attracting" like a cyber holy war. I always thought it was supposed to be this relatively benign concept.

I suppose you can call it a "tool." I see it more as a law that is, as you say, automatic and systematic. Sort of like the law of gravity.

Could you call gravity a "tool?" I don't know.

I think of a tool as something that you can use or not use rather than something that is always in use whether you are aware of it or not.



Well yes, that would be the ultimate total self mastery. If a person could do that, then they would have the power to create anything they could imagine out of thin air just by thinking about it.

It would be seen and felt and be as "real" as anything else in this physical world. Yes that would be the ideal situation of creative power. It would certainly be seen as real "magick" in other peoples eyes.



I would like to hear your view on that because I certainly do not subscribe to the idea that when we die we become one with God and suddenly know everything about everything, loosing our individuality.

Perhaps we are individuals who just practice exchanges of information via telepathy connections.

Thats a falsehood unless by "addressing" you simply mean you reiterated you didnt know. If you cant answer a simple question, no skin off my nose. I dont see why you dont expect questions from people.

Krimsa I gave you a very detailed answer that I admit is only my opinion on the other thread which you have not responded to.

I don't know what else you expect of me.

http://mingle2.com/topic/show/187209?page=6

I just responded. I expect nothing of you. You attacked me. I dont like that you criticize others and have to constantly come across as being the "final word" on The Law of Attraction. We all have our opinions and none of which can be substantiated so let it go. Stop arguing.

Well, just to summarize my comments associted with the question of the thread.

I personally feel that with respect to witchcraft the philosophy that has been coined "The Law of Attraction" is only partially applicable.

They seem to have some lame idea of how witchcraft spells are performed, but they don't seem to truly understand many of the foundational concepts of witchcraft.

At least not as my guru and teacher, Christopher Penczak, has presented witchcraft to me via his books.

It also appears to me, that the philosophy that has been coined "The Law of Attraction" has also added many philosophical concepts which, again, don't appear to me to be applicable to the philosophy of witchcraft as presented by my guru and teacher, Christopher Penczak.

Obviously Christopher Penczak is not the only person with opinions on witchcraft. There may be other forms of witchcraft that differ wildly from Penczak's teachings. In those cases I might actually disagree with those opposing forms of witchcraft.

I like Penczak's teachings of witchcraft because they make sense to me, and they resonate with me.

I have looked into the philosophy that has been coined, "The Law of Attraction" and it didn't resonate with me completely. That's why I moved onward.

I was very fortunate to have met Ruth and to have been introduced to the books by both Scott Cunningham and Christopher Penczak. I like the way that both of these men have presented witchcraft. And of course I like the Penczak books the best, because they are actual step-by-step guides.

I might add that right before I met Ruth, another witch had given me a link to a website to learn about witchcraft. I must confess that when I went to that website and read what they had to say I was completetly turned off to witchcraft. I was totally convinced that it couldn't possibly have merit (based on that web site's presentation of witchcraft)

I have no clue why I trusted Ruth's suggestion for these books.

In fact, in hind sigtht, I think I almost did just say, thanks but no thanks I've read enough already.

But for some reason, I didn't do that. Instead I actually just ordered the books.

I truly think it was a 'last straw' for me. I think I was expecting to get the books, read them, be disappointed and just toss them in the trash can.

But that obviously didn't happen.

On the contrary. I finally found home.

My search is over.

I found what I've been seeking all along.

I realize that it's not right for everyone. But just the same, I also realize where the Law of Attraction disagrees with it. And I personally feel that the people who made up the philosophy called "The Law of Attraction" got some things seriously wrong.

There are some major differences between the Law of Attraction (as espoused by many authors of that philosophy) and witchcraft (as taught by Christopher Penczak).

That's all I know.

and with that we end our local broadcast and bring you " the bonanza show"

How can you say that?

You made the following untrue statement about me after I did my level best to answer your hypothetical question to me.



Now what is the point of a remark like that? It is simply not true and it is uncalled for and antagonistic and personal.

Why do you think I am arguing? I am only trying to answer the questions people are asking me to the best of my ability.
If you don't like my answers, I'm sorry. They are my opinion, so get over it.

Ok, so I would call the Law of Attraction more of a “metaphor for the mechanism of creation” (since what is actually happening is creation), and the application of the LoA would be a “a method for controlling the subconscious, automatic mechanism of creation”.

Are we getting closer?


Cool! 100% agreement.

My bad – very sloppy of me. That’s not quite what I meant. I was referring to your “higher self and little selves” scenario, and my understanding of something you once said about little selves growing to the point where they became higher selves that could spawn their own little selves.

But maybe I misunderstood that too.

I think that is precisely how it works. The mechanism by which we synchronize the co-creation of things we have in common. I think it is the answer that Occam would prefer.

Krimsa said



This is true in fact.

That was obviously a joke and it had a laughing face next to it. You never attempted to answer the question. You basically said you didnt know. The question remains unanswered now.

Oh Well that explains it. I love being the butt of jokes. carry on.

Well it is true unless you want to take a stab at it now. How does an unborn fetus "attract" a deformity. I will just simplify it in that sense.

Then once you answer I will pull back up that comparison to Medieval Christianity and their belief in generational curses.

I think the little selves are individual aspects of me. I can feel them at work in me. (I don't always agree with myself.)

And all of my other incarnations are also different aspects of me. They don't always share the same opinions.

Perhaps when we all come together I will be more integrated with myself.

An unborn fetus does not attract a deformity. A spiritual being who wants to be born is attracted to it.

So the infant is punished because the new incarnation is attracting the deformity for whatever reason. What is the difference between that idea and another force or entity causing the birth defect? It could be god, it could be a spiritual being, it could be...


If we learned to actually harness the law of attraction we could simply abort healthy babies that we know will attract a sickness much later right? Since nothing is random.

What about a mother who has a deformed baby? Did she attract a deformed baby to her?

How about the husband who is the father of the child, did he attract a deformed baby too?

It just seems to me that the idea of that the Law of Attracted demands that everyone is 100% responsible for everything that comes into thier lives just doens't cut it.

It's just not reasonable.

It has nothing to do with being willing to accept responsibility. It has to do with the simple FACT that it's just unreasonble.

To teach people that that are 100% responsible for everything that comes into their lives is to tell a new mother that she is personally responsible for her baby being deformed!

This is what people are rebuking at.

Clearly there's a flaw in the fine print of this philosophy.

I mean, I don't care what people want to believe on a personal basis.

I just don't see how it can possibly work that eveyone is 100% responsible for having attracted everything that comes into their lives.

I just argue it on purely logical grounds. It's makes absolutely no logical sense to me. I don't see how it could possibly work.

It's just totally nonsensical to me.

It really has nothing at all to do with personal preference. It's just seems totally absurd to me.

That's all.

The development of a fetus is an automatic biological process guided by the mechanics of programing, DNA, genes etc.

It is not a person until it is animated by what some people call a "soul" or a spiritual entity that is incarnating into this world. This spiritual life force is what lives in the body.

If the life force of did not enter the child at some point, the fetus would more than likely be still born or die shortly after birth.

That you view the life of this person to be "punishment" is just your point of view. The life force that animates that body may not view it in the same way. It is simply experimenting with life. Attitudes of "punishment" are learned perceptions.

Well my law of attraction (wife) is calling me to go to sleep now. I am wishing everyone a great night