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Topic: My Challenge to Creationists
tribo's photo
Sun 11/30/08 06:34 AM




thnx for that spidey - so your saying you have to save it to like photo_bucket or other place before you post it then correct?


Yes, but you can only use non-copyrighted images or images that you have permission to use.


how do you know its copyrighted - all the pics i've seen have right on it if its coprwrited or protected - this one didn't so how can you know for sure???


Email the web master.


gotcha

tribo's photo
Sun 11/30/08 06:35 AM



Ir someone is going to push for something to be taught in school, or even want it to be takin seriously at all they should be able to show some evidence of it.


school - i can see your point.

adults? how can you prove whats taken on faith?


you either believe in whats stated as proof or not, and follow it or not.


it's been debated to death on here, no one wins - you can not debate FAITH vs SCIENCE and have a definitive outcome. sorry.



Well actually Tribo...not get into a pissing match with you but can't we all say that we live in a world full of unknowns. We live it every day if we are observant.

I can say that even tho I am a visual person I know there are nuances to faith that most people don't realize for themselves or their lives. We only complain when things don't go our way but how about all the joyful surprizes in life?

I think it's the same thing with evolution vs. creation. I think it's both. Since God can divinely intervene at any given time in the course of the natural realm...why not the big bang theory?

I know you recognize that some things can't be explained. I do too. Can we agree on that?


sure

martymark's photo
Sun 11/30/08 08:51 AM

HUMAN TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS






I like the I dude, he's kinda cute!

Skad's photo
Sun 11/30/08 09:50 AM


HUMAN TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS






I like the I dude, he's kinda cute!


I think I went to High School with the C chick. People were always giving her a hard time.. wish I had stood up for her more.. but she's doing great these days. Ran into her a few weeks ago grocery shopping.

Seamonster's photo
Sun 11/30/08 03:25 PM



As for those who were killed, only God can see the heart; past present and future.

At any rate, Seamonster, and Abra for that matter.. I can't speak for any other Creationists or Christians, but I'm not out to prove anything to you.

The Bible says I'll be held accountable for people I hold the truth from. But it also says that if I try and the truth is not accepted, I'm supposed to kick the dust from my shoes (walk away, forget about it).

So, I've spoken the truth, and now I'll leave you with your own choice to make.



so he kills children and you say well they may have been wicked children.

yeah ok
yes, this is dust you realy should kick off.
There is no defence for the slaughter of children and it's incredible that you would even try.




Uh...people kill their children every day. Ever heard of abortion?

Please! Stop with the twisted logic here. Left up to their own devices, People kill themselves ...and other people. Not God.




you obviously have never read the bible. It's ok most christians have'nt. But god has killed and orderd people to kill all the way through it.
For every kill the infidels in the koran the is a kill the nonbelievers in the bible.

Eljay's photo
Sun 11/30/08 11:12 PM

O.K. now creationism:

Let’s see, what observations or objective evidences demonstrate that a supernatural being poofed fully formed man into existence, out of dirt, only about 6 to 10 thousand years ago, and then yanked out a rib to create woman? None. Zip. Zilch. All that supports those religious assertions is a book written several thousand years ago. And this book – the Holy Bible – was written by grossly superstitious people who were completely ignorant of modern biology, astronomy, geology, physics, and other sciences; has been translated and mistranslated time after time over the years; and consists primarily of second-hand and third-hand stories (at least), many of which are reports about other people’s dreams. This “evidence” for the special creation of man does not even begin to compare favorably with the many scientific evidences listed above for the evolutionary origin of humans.


First of all - the idea that the bible has been mistranslated "time after time" - as you claim is a fact known only to you. Invetigate this fact and you'll find you are wrong. I'd certainly like for you to supply me with the sources of these "mistranslated" texts so we can assert this "fact" for ourselves.

Secondly - I hear this term "many scientific evidences" spouted all the time, unfortunately
no one ever bothers to state them - just that they exist. And you ask for evidence that supports Genesis?


But let’s go ahead anyway and spend a few minutes considering what it would mean for a Creationist God to have created humans as mentioned in the Bible. More precisely, we are looking at two possible explanations for human origins: Creation (special creation by God about 10,000 years ago) and evolution (our species arising by descent with modification, most recently from an ancestor we share with chimps). Let’s consider just the first piece of genetic evidence provided above (the 96% to 99% identity between chimp and human DNA) and ask which of the two possibilities is the better explanation. Or rather, how does the Creationist explanation compare to the evolutionary one already laid out.


Hmmm... another mystery. When I was a youngster - they told us in school that we were directly descendent from apes. Apparently, now, this isn't true. We share a "common ancestor" is the claim now. And what is that ancestor again?


According to Creationists, God is an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-righteous supernatural being who created the entire Universe in only 6 days: His powers are unlimited and He knows the past, the present, and the future. But then why would God have created humans and chimps to share 96% to 99% identity in their DNA?


1) First, God could have created humans with completely different DNA sequences. For example, God could have effortlessly zapped humans into existence with a gene for hemoglobin that is only, say, 85% identical to that of chimpanzees. Why did God make ours exactly identical to the chimp’s? Worse, why did He not only make the human and chimpanzee base sequences for hemoglobin identical, but also make them different from that of most other animals? And, different in just the right manner to give the supposedly false illusion of a hierarchical system (groups within groups) of relationships between species, that He also tricked scientists into believing by falsely creating a vast number of other genes that overall also demonstrate the same nested groupings? For some unexplained reason, God knowingly chose to make our DNA – not just for hemoglobin, but for a whole slew of other genes too – so similar to chimps, and decreasingly similar to increasingly less-related species, that it convincingly gives the supposedly false illusion that we share a common ancestor with them? Why? That would be knowingly misleading: grossly misleading.

2) Second, God is claimed to be all powerful and not limited by the laws of nature. So He could have created humans such that we didn’t even have DNA! We humans could be based on some weird genetic molecule called, for example, “ZNA”, which is based on inorganic metals like zinc and iron (instead of carbon), while all other life was based on DNA. Now that would be great evidence that we were created separately from all other life: but it’s not the case.

3) Third, why did God even create chimps? If God didn’t create the great apes – animals that genetically and anatomically are highly similar to humans – and ancient hominids, which was surely within His powers, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. Unlike nature, God didn’t have to create any primates or ancient hominids in order to create humans: He controls the whole Universe and is not bound to creating something only if something else like it already exists. Maybe God wanted to plant more misleading evidence, laying His great deception on extra thick!


So - according to your reasoning - that because God created chimps, who "remotely" (and that is a gross understatement) resemble man (which if you took the time to list the disimmilarities it would far outnumber the similarities - by why pay attention to those facts) that God doesn't exist because - well, he could have done it differently.
Is that your argument?


All of these things God would have done, intentionally, knowing the future. Why? It sure appears that He would have done so specifically to mislead future scientists into believing “the lie” of evolution. God set a complex, interdependent trap, so that He could then condemn to eternal damnation and unending torment anyone who falls prey to His deceit?


Your answer can be found in Romans. The clear and concise explination can be found in chapter 1 vs 18-32. And this explination for these mislead scientists was documented nearly 2,000 years ago.
And the choice for condemnation is in their hands - not God's. For God only gives man the desires he has through the choices man makes. For those who rejects Him - he does not intervene to force them to accept him.

The choice is there's.


Eljay's photo
Sun 11/30/08 11:14 PM
Edited by Eljay on Sun 11/30/08 11:15 PM

HUMAN TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS








Okay - a picture of 14 skulls.

And this is what, again?

I could choose 14 pictures from this site and put their MRI side by side and get the same results.

Krimsa's photo
Tue 12/02/08 02:25 AM
Edited by Krimsa on Tue 12/02/08 02:51 AM
Then go ahead and do that Eljay. Whos stopping you? Especially cranium depiction A-D I would very much like to see that re-created from modern human skeletal mass.

While you are at it, post the documented photographic evidence of the skeletal remains of Adam and Eve.

Krimsa's photo
Tue 12/02/08 09:17 AM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=109437045337139233

Have god explain this one.

beachbum069's photo
Tue 12/02/08 02:22 PM
For people that don't believe in evolution:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080421-lizard-evolution.html

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